pre-med committee reccomended me with RESERVATIONS

[MDWannabe819]

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I recieved a score of 2/5, which stands for
"Recommends with Reservations"

After 1.5 years of college I attained a 2.8 GPA, with a decent excuse (working + secondary care provider for grandparents)

I ended up being able to somewhat recover and end up with a 3.35 sGPA with multiple dean's list semesters. I also feel as if my personal statement was fairly decent.



1. Is this a fair score? I am trying to be objective about the situation.

2. Would it be better to submit without committee letter?

 

[supafly0]

I'd say that's fairly accurate. https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/2012factstable25-4.pdf

You're going to have to kill the MCAT

As for having a decent excuse. I'm sure there are applicants with similar situations with higher stats. Sorry to rain on your parade, but you're going to have to boost your resume with something out of the ordinary to get into a US medical school.

 

[jr93]

I personally wouldn't turn that in. Just get individual professor letters. I'm not even sure if my school where I took pre-reqs had one of these committees because I'm non-trad but I also had no interest in finding out. Advisors and these committees seemed like it wasn't worth it to me since most often just go through the motions. No one seemed to care at my interviews that I didn't have a committee letter or any involvement in any "pre-med" activitites at school.

 

[sinombre]

Submitting a bad letter is probably one of the easiest ways to get rejected from a school. Do you know why you scored so low? Is it just reflective of GPA?

 

[MDWannabe819]

Submitting a bad letter is probably one of the easiest ways to get rejected from a school. Do you know why you scored so low? Is it just reflective of GPA?

They take into account GPA, personal statement, and letters of evaluation

I was required to submit 4 professors letter of evaluations

 

[Lya]

I cannot say if the score is fair or not, since I don't know your full story and other ECs.

However, with your GPA alone, I would safely comment that you should consider post-bacc later on. Do you think if you apply after your senior year, your GPA might be higher? Unless you get 35+ MCAT, 3.35 sGPA is still on the low side. Considering your upward trend, I would have agreed with 3/5 or so, but I can imagine 2/5 might seem realistic to some people. So for your first question, it could seem fair to some people, but probably not me. Maybe I am more optimistic since I have another friend of mine who's going through a very similar situation as yours.

Regarding your second question, I am not sure if you are allowed to submit other individual letters even when your school is able to provide a committee letter (if there's no such committee, you can submit individual letters. But I am not sure if you can do so even when there's a committee). If you can submit without your committee letter (maybe you should check individual school websites and AAMC as well), I would do so as long as you have other professors/employers who can talk about you genuinely, not in terms of numbers like GPA.

 

[Lya]

They take into account GPA, personal statement, and letters of evaluation

I was required to submit 4 professors letter of evaluations

Did your committee tell you where you should improve, besides GPA?

 

[MDWannabe819]

Did your committee tell you where you should improve, besides GPA?

Nope. They have tons of these committee letters to write and finish them ALL in one day.

 

[sinombre]

Yeah... don't submit it. At least they give you a score and you don't have to submit it blindly.

 

[Lya]

Nope. They have tons of these committee letters to write and finish them ALL in one day.

Hmmm.. That's not that much helpful..

GPA needs to be improved certainly, but that 2/5 could also come from letters or PS. All I could say at this point is to send your PS to the reader list in SDN and hope that PS wasn't the one that needs to be improved. We can't do anything about your letters, but just hope that they are strong.


Edit: Make sure that med schools allow you to submit individual letters even when your school provides a committee letter. If this is possible, yes don't submit the committee letter.

 

[ukae]

I personally wouldn't submit it if I had the choice

 

[Status Sciaticus]

lol my committee doesnt even tell me if they recommend or recommend with reservation.

 

[Lucky Louie]

Think of it this way: you'll for sure get rejected if you submit that Committee Letter. You might have better luck with straight lettters from your professors. But you should seriously consider a post-bacc.Your gpa and MCAT score are just on the border and you'd benefit from having an opportunity to do more courses.

 

[PreMedRookie]

I have read on multiple school websites that if your school provides a committee letter and you chose to not use it, you better have a very good reason for doing so. I don't think they would see "they didn't give me a good recommendation" as a reason.

 

[Donald Juan]

I recieved a score of 2/5, which stands for
"Recommends with Reservations"

After 1.5 years of college I attained a 2.8 GPA, with a decent excuse (working + secondary care provider for grandparents)

I ended up being able to somewhat recover and end up with a 3.35 sGPA with multiple dean's list semesters. I also feel as if my personal statement was fairly decent.



1. Is this a fair score? I am trying to be objective about the situation.

2. Would it be better to submit without committee letter?

Others have already told you to forget the letter, so I won't try and drill that point in.

Work and family issues are not good excuses for poor GPA. They are great reasons to not have a lot of EC and not be involved in school that much, but they do not excuse your GPA. Understand that if you can't make the grades in undergrad, you won't be able to keep your head above water in med school.

 

[DrSolus]

I'm really curious to know which school this is. What kind of school's committee would write a letter that essentially preemptively sabotages a student's chances of admittance to graduate school? Because that's precisely what yours did. Why not even just write a weak letter and let the schools make their own judgement call? Seems like an egregious overstepping of bounds IMO.

Please PM if you're willing to let me know. As for my recommendation, I'm gonna go with the opinion of not submitting this letter and seeing how the process goes without it - though this is pretty likely to hurt your chances at schools that require a committee letter. Definitely check to see which schools require one and which ones do not and apply accordingly.

In any case, your 3.35 sGPA is low and not terribly competitive for most schools. I would highly recommend an SMP to clear any doubts about your academic abilities.

 

[Meredith92]

Do all committee letters get categorized in this way, like using "with reservation?"

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Do all committee letters get categorized in this way, like using "with reservation?"

usually yes.

 

[ericksonj15]

.

 

[jr93]

I'm really curious to know which school this is. What kind of school's committee would write a letter that essentially preemptively sabotages a student's chances of admittance to graduate school? Because that's precisely what yours did. Why not even just write a weak letter and let the schools make their own judgement call? Seems like an egregious overstepping of bounds IMO.

Please PM if you're willing to let me know. As for my recommendation, I'm gonna go with the opinion of not submitting this letter and seeing how the process goes without it - though this is pretty likely to hurt your chances at schools that require a committee letter. Definitely check to see which schools require one and which ones do not and apply accordingly.

In any case, your 3.35 sGPA is low and not terribly competitive for most schools. I would highly recommend an SMP to clear any doubts about your academic abilities.

I agree. I think that, in general, pre-med committees are a joke. It's why I never even met with one. I was a non-trad so they wouldn't have known me anyway and it seems pointless to be pre-judged by people that barely know you before some people at med school judge you when they should be all that matters. There are way too many chances for vendettas and dumb things to happen with these committees. Bad days, members going through divorces or their children getting arrested, etc. could ruin someone's chances. If I was a young student who was thinking about med school, I'd just pick a major and work toward it and say that you decided to apply as you got close to graduation. Screw these committees. If your stats and EC's check out, LOR's check out, you interview well, and pass a background check, you're qualified to be a med student to me.

 

[Barcu]

OP, this will be a problem. Unfortunately, having to explain that you didn't get the committee letter because it wasn't good is going to be a problem too.

You already have a low gpa to begin with, so unless you crush the MCAT, your chances at MD aren't great. Have you though about taking some time off? Doing some more classes, getting a job, etc? Maybe some time will help. And if you take an extra year, would the committee be willing to write you another letter?

I agree. I think that, in general, pre-med committees are a joke. It's why I never even met with one. I was a non-trad so they wouldn't have known me anyway and it seems pointless to be pre-judged by people that barely know you before some people at med school judge you when they should be all that matters. There are way too many chances for vendettas and dumb things to happen with these committees. Bad days, members going through divorces or their children getting arrested, etc. could ruin someone's chances. If I was a young student who was thinking about med school, I'd just pick a major and work toward it and say that you decided to apply as you got close to graduation. Screw these committees. If your stats and EC's check out, LOR's check out, you interview well, and pass a background check, you're qualified to be a med student to me.

Or, maybe you can go see the committee earlier and develop a friendly relationship with the advisor? I agree that getting a random committee to write a letter seems a bit crazy (I met with my adivsor for the first time a couple months before turning in all my committee stuff). However, this is the trend, so applicants need to get used to it. Drop in every once in a while.

The same problems you listed can happen to you on a med school interview too. Plus, I can't stand when people claim a vendetta against them because, from my experience, they usually deserve it somewhat. I'm not saying crazy things can't happen, but there is really no way to eliminate those kinds of things from happening once in a while.

 

[jr93]

Or, maybe you can go see the committee earlier and develop a friendly relationship with the advisor? I agree that getting a random committee to write a letter seems a bit crazy (I met with my adivsor for the first time a couple months before turning in all my committee stuff). However, this is the trend, so applicants need to get used to it. Drop in every once in a while.

The same problems you listed can happen to you on a med school interview too. Plus, I can't stand when people claim a vendetta against them because, from my experience, they usually deserve it somewhat. I'm not saying crazy things can't happen, but there is really no way to eliminate those kinds of things from happening once in a while.

Of course it could happen on a med school interview. My point is that I don't understand the need for another layer. Also, many adcoms that I know of consist of voluntary members so the chance for vendettas seems much lower at a med school. At my school, almost all of the med school admissions committee are local doctors that are alumni of the school and aren't getting anything so they'd have to have serious issues to volunteer time to screw with people. Do pre-med committees really alter the number of applications med schools have to sift through? The letters must not matter much because I got plenty of interviews without having one. As much as I criticize some people on SDN, you still probably get more info on here than from many advisors around the nation. Just because something is "the trend" doesn't mean I should approve of it. People that kiss up to some pointless committee shouldn't get an upper hand at getting into med school.

 

[Barcu]

Of course it could happen on a med school interview. My point is that I don't understand the need for another layer. Also, many adcoms that I know of consist of voluntary members so the chance for vendettas seems much lower at a med school. At my school, almost all of the med school admissions committee are local doctors that are alumni of the school and aren't getting anything so they'd have to have serious issues to volunteer time to screw with people. Do pre-med committees really alter the number of applications med schools have to sift through? The letters must not matter much because I got plenty of interviews without having one. As much as I criticize some people on SDN, you still probably get more info on here than from many advisors around the nation. Just because something is "the trend" doesn't mean I should approve of it. People that kiss up to some pointless committee shouldn't get an upper hand at getting into med school.

I don't disagree with you. However, whether you disagree or not with the trend, it is a trend that seems like it will continue. Many people on SDN now will be expected to get a committee letter, so telling them to find ways around it isn't very helpful.

You don't need to suck up to some premed committee, and I would certainly still tell people to seek out info about med admissions through several sources, including SDN. But if you know that your committee is eventually going to write you a letter, then you might as well make yourself known to them before you ask for a letter. That isn't sucking up.

 

[PanRoasted]

Of course it could happen on a med school interview. My point is that I don't understand the need for another layer. Also, many adcoms that I know of consist of voluntary members so the chance for vendettas seems much lower at a med school. At my school, almost all of the med school admissions committee are local doctors that are alumni of the school and aren't getting anything so they'd have to have serious issues to volunteer time to screw with people. Do pre-med committees really alter the number of applications med schools have to sift through? The letters must not matter much because I got plenty of interviews without having one. As much as I criticize some people on SDN, you still probably get more info on here than from many advisors around the nation. Just because something is "the trend" doesn't mean I should approve of it. People that kiss up to some pointless committee shouldn't get an upper hand at getting into med school.

My school's premedical committee is composed of former professors/adcoms of the medical school associated with the undergraduate institution. For the most part, those people are very professional and know what they're doing. The committee letters they put out do a really good job of showing you in a positive light, and they have authority because of their previous appointments. I don't think it's in any way "pointless" and you can't vilify those that properly utilize the resources provided to them just because you didn't.

Many of us are under the impression that your pre-medical committee is obligated to write you an amazingly supportive letter of recommendation, regardless of their actual opinion. They know about as much as you can give them, and if you haven't met with them (as some would put it, "kiss up to them"), then they are going to base their opinions heavily on your stats and other written statements. Given that the OP probably has not made the effort to convene with the committee to gauge their support and to explain his situation more clearly, it would be really dumb to go forward with using their letter. The fact that medical schools increasingly favor the committee letter is unfortunate in your case, but a problem that could have been mitigated.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

My school's premedical committee is composed of former professors/adcoms of the medical school associated with the undergraduate institution. For the most part, those people are very professional and know what they're doing. The committee letters they put out do a really good job of showing you in a positive light, and they have authority because of their previous appointments. I don't think it's in any way "pointless" and you can't vilify those that properly utilize the resources provided to them just because you didn't.

Unfortunately, not all committees are created equal. The committee at my school is comprised of a handful of upper level Bio professors. I get the impression that I am the first non-Bio major/non-Post bacc student to have ever requested a committee letter (during my first conversation with the chair of the committee a few semesters ago, he made the assumption that I was changing my major to Bio, and he seemed puzzled when I said no).

Many of us are under the impression that your pre-medical committee is obligated to write you an amazingly supportive letter of recommendation, regardless of their actual opinion. They know about as much as you can give them, and if you haven't met with them (as some would put it, "kiss up to them"), then they are going to base their opinions heavily on your stats and other written statements. Given that the OP probably has not made the effort to convene with the committee to gauge their support and to explain his situation more clearly, it would be really dumb to go forward with using their letter. The fact that medical schools increasingly favor the committee letter is unfortunate in your case, but a problem that could have been mitigated.

The OP said that he/she had to submit four individual letters for this committee letter. I don't know if the letters were strong, but I'm assuming that he/she would not have asked professors of classes he did not perform well in. Assuming the letters and PS were strong, it would seem that the 2/5 was because of the gpa, and I don't know if that is entirely warranted.

 

[jr93]

My school's premedical committee is composed of former professors/adcoms of the medical school associated with the undergraduate institution. For the most part, those people are very professional and know what they're doing. The committee letters they put out do a really good job of showing you in a positive light, and they have authority because of their previous appointments. I don't think it's in any way "pointless" and you can't vilify those that properly utilize the resources provided to them just because you didn't.

Many of us are under the impression that your pre-medical committee is obligated to write you an amazingly supportive letter of recommendation, regardless of their actual opinion. They know about as much as you can give them, and if you haven't met with them (as some would put it, "kiss up to them"), then they are going to base their opinions heavily on your stats and other written statements. Given that the OP probably has not made the effort to convene with the committee to gauge their support and to explain his situation more clearly, it would be really dumb to go forward with using their letter. The fact that medical schools increasingly favor the committee letter is unfortunate in your case, but a problem that could have been mitigated.

As the previous poster stated, not all committees are the same which contributes to how pointless they are. Letters are impossible to weight versus other committees at other schools. Also, you essentially said that kissing up helps which is what frustrates me. That person shouldn't get the upper hand just because they had a better relationship with some committee which allowed them to write a better letter. Having a committee get to know you doesn't make you a better doctor. Like I said, almost all of my schools that I did secondaries for asked for a committee letter. I didn't have one and got interviews at 5 of the 6. The 1 I didn't get was likely because of my GPA, not LOR's. After that, no one cared. To be honest, in 3 of the 5 interviews I did, the doctor interviewing me didn't even care if I wore a suit and 2 recommended that I take it off. Things may be the trend but that doesn't mean the committee will care once you're past the screening process. They all wanted to know what kind of doctor I'd be and I think good LOR's from respectable people will take the place of a committee letter any day. This is just my opinion from my experience.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I'm really curious to know which school this is. What kind of school's committee would write a letter that essentially preemptively sabotages a student's chances of admittance to graduate school? Because that's precisely what yours did. Why not even just write a weak letter and let the schools make their own judgement call? Seems like an egregious overstepping of bounds IMO.

Please PM if you're willing to let me know. As for my recommendation, I'm gonna go with the opinion of not submitting this letter and seeing how the process goes without it - though this is pretty likely to hurt your chances at schools that require a committee letter. Definitely check to see which schools require one and which ones do not and apply accordingly.

In any case, your 3.35 sGPA is low and not terribly competitive for most schools. I would highly recommend an SMP to clear any doubts about your academic abilities.

The main thing is that OP knows this from the committee. Thus it is pointless to send the letter and it goes to show how committee letters don't take into account the improvement of the student. I agree though that it is better to just send the individual letters.

I would actually like to know what the upward trend was for OP. He/she said he/she was on the deans list a few times. Was this over the course of one, two, or three years? If this has been something like a three year trend (with 3.8+) then I don't think the committee is judging OP fairly in this aspect (I am not sure of the other aspect such as PS statement and LORs).

As for the SMP, I would not recommend this considering his GPA is 3.35. He has enough of a chance to raise it to at least a 3.5. An SMP is a last resort for those whose GPA is barely above a 3.0 and have a really low chance of raising it to 3.5 in 2 years or less.

 

[Barcu]

As the previous poster stated, not all committees are the same which contributes to how pointless they are. Letters are impossible to weight versus other committees at other schools. Also, you essentially said that kissing up helps which is what frustrates me. That person shouldn't get the upper hand just because they had a better relationship with some committee which allowed them to write a better letter. Having a committee get to know you doesn't make you a better doctor. Like I said, almost all of my schools that I did secondaries for asked for a committee letter. I didn't have one and got interviews at 5 of the 6. The 1 I didn't get was likely because of my GPA, not LOR's. After that, no one cared. To be honest, in 3 of the 5 interviews I did, the doctor interviewing me didn't even care if I wore a suit and 2 recommended that I take it off. Things may be the trend but that doesn't mean the committee will care once you're past the screening process. They all wanted to know what kind of doctor I'd be and I think good LOR's from respectable people will take the place of a committee letter any day. This is just my opinion from my experience.

Again, it is not kissing up. It's developing a relationship with the people that are going to write your letter. How is this any different than the relationship you've created with your other letter writers? You shouldn't get an LOR from a professor that you never talked to. You know that you will need a committee letter, so you might as well get to know them.

Your experience isn't relevant to many applicants. You are a non-trad, who are given more leeway on committee letters. If you go to a school with one, most schools expect you to have one. Traditional applicants are expected to get one (in most cases).

As to the differing experiences of committee letters, I guess I can only say that I feel bad for people with bad committees. What else can I say? It's still risky not to get one. Maybe you can try and send in some extra letters. However, many committee letters will have a number of letters attached since you turn those into the committee (so the packet has the committee letter and all of your additional LORs included).

There are several aspects of the admissions process that seem unfair. It may depend on your professors, which volunteer experiences you get, and of course, your committee. You just gotta play the cards you've been dealt. As a traditional applicant, you will be expected to have a committee letter. So, you might as well make the most of it. Everyone has the opportunity to do this. It's not like anyone is being given extra advantages because they decided to meet with the committee early and you didn't.

 

[iave9963]

Like previously mentioned, just submit individual letters. I did, and not once did it come up at interviews and one lady grilled me for 1.5 hours about everything in my application. I think you'll be fine on that end.

 

[jr93]

Again, it is not kissing up. It's developing a relationship with the people that are going to write your letter. How is this any different than the relationship you've created with your other letter writers? You shouldn't get an LOR from a professor that you never talked to. You know that you will need a committee letter, so you might as well get to know them.

Your experience isn't relevant to many applicants. You are a non-trad, who are given more leeway on committee letters. If you go to a school with one, most schools expect you to have one. Traditional applicants are expected to get one (in most cases).

As to the differing experiences of committee letters, I guess I can only say that I feel bad for people with bad committees. What else can I say? It's still risky not to get one. Maybe you can try and send in some extra letters. However, many committee letters will have a number of letters attached since you turn those into the committee (so the packet has the committee letter and all of your additional LORs included).

There are several aspects of the admissions process that seem unfair. It may depend on your professors, which volunteer experiences you get, and of course, your committee. You just gotta play the cards you've been dealt. As a traditional applicant, you will be expected to have a committee letter. So, you might as well make the most of it. Everyone has the opportunity to do this. It's not like anyone is being given extra advantages because they decided to meet with the committee early and you didn't.

Again, you're missing my point and using circular reasoning. You're saying it's not kissing up because you need to develop a relationship for them to write you a letter. That, by definition, is kissing up. You wouldn't go meet them if you didn't need the letter so it's pointless. I did not do that to get my LOR's. My process was, I had an existing relationship that just happened to occur so I had them write a letter. The committee process is reverse: you need a letter, so you develop a relationship that wouldn't normally occur. It actually turns out that since I'm non-trad, I had difficulty finding my third professor and I had a lady write it that only kind of knew me and I made sure that she knew she didn't have to do it if she didn't feel comfortable. One interviewer hinted at what each person said though and I think she still said some pretty good things. I'd still say I knew her better than any advisor I had in undergrad and I didn't have one for pre-reqs but knowing my personality, I wouldn't have gone to an advisor for pre-med either even if I knew back when I was in undergrad that I wanted to do this.

 

[487806]

I recieved a score of 2/5, which stands for
"Recommends with Reservations"

After 1.5 years of college I attained a 2.8 GPA, with a decent excuse (working + secondary care provider for grandparents)

I ended up being able to somewhat recover and end up with a 3.35 sGPA with multiple dean's list semesters. I also feel as if my personal statement was fairly decent.



1. Is this a fair score? I am trying to be objective about the situation.

2. Would it be better to submit without committee letter?

Submit the individual letters. The committee letter will destroy your app.

Unfortunately, not all committees are created equal. The committee at my school is comprised of a handful of upper level Bio professors. I get the impression that I am the first non-Bio major/non-Post bacc student to have ever requested a committee letter (during my first conversation with the chair of the committee a few semesters ago, he made the assumption that I was changing my major to Bio, and he seemed puzzled when I said no).

That's the premed committee for you. What a total joke.

 

[DrSolus]

That's the premed committee for you. What a total joke.

My premed committee was quite pleasant to work with and was actually pretty helpful. They were also very accommodating of the fact that I was no longer on campus and applying as an alum.

YMMV, and to each his own.

 

[Barcu]

Again, you're missing my point and using circular reasoning. You're saying it's not kissing up because you need to develop a relationship for them to write you a letter. That, by definition, is kissing up. You wouldn't go meet them if you didn't need the letter so it's pointless. I did not do that to get my LOR's. My process was, I had an existing relationship that just happened to occur so I had them write a letter. The committee process is reverse: you need a letter, so you develop a relationship that wouldn't normally occur. It actually turns out that since I'm non-trad, I had difficulty finding my third professor and I had a lady write it that only kind of knew me and I made sure that she knew she didn't have to do it if she didn't feel comfortable. One interviewer hinted at what each person said though and I think she still said some pretty good things. I'd still say I knew her better than any advisor I had in undergrad and I didn't have one for pre-reqs but knowing my personality, I wouldn't have gone to an advisor for pre-med either even if I knew back when I was in undergrad that I wanted to do this.

If you want to take a principled stand against committee letters, then fine. I disagree that developing a relationship with someone that can help you get into med school is "kissing up."

The point is this: med schools want a committee letter. Your premed committee will be writing that letter. You have the opportunity to meet with them before they write you that important letter. Take that opportunity because some people will (and it's available to everyone, unlike other opportunities). If someone wants to skip the committee letter and suffer any possible consequences, then they should go ahead.

 

[Goro]

What I typically see is a 4-5-tier scale (I can't remember the fifth)

Highly Recommend
Recommend
Recommend with Reservations
Cannot Recommend


OP, if you submit this Committee letter, you might as well set the application on fire. Your cGPA is NOT competetive for medical school, so don't think about applying anywhere until you do some GPA repair. Either re-take all F/D/C grades for AACOMAS, or take an SMP and show us you can handle medical school.

Do all committee letters get categorized in this way, like using "with reservation?"

 

[aspiring20]

OP, i am somewhat surprised that you are able to find out which level of recommendation your committee gave you. Usually, the committee does not tell students which level of recommendation they will get. This is the case with my school.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

OP, i am somewhat surprised that you are able to find out which level of recommendation your committee gave you. Usually, the committee does not tell students which level of recommendation they will get. This is the case with my school.

same here...

isnt that screwing with people's futures by hiding the fact that they are sending out a potentially harmful letter?

 

[ericksonj15]

.

 

[mvenus929]

I personally wouldn't turn that in. Just get individual professor letters. I'm not even sure if my school where I took pre-reqs had one of these committees because I'm non-trad but I also had no interest in finding out. Advisors and these committees seemed like it wasn't worth it to me since most often just go through the motions. No one seemed to care at my interviews that I didn't have a committee letter or any involvement in any "pre-med" activitites at school.

So, my school did not have a committee, for which I was thankful. We could form one ourselves if we wanted, but I found it just as easy to get professors to write individual letters.

That said, my sister school does have a committee, and at one of my interviews where they were familiar with my sister school, I was specifically asked why I did not have a committee letter. If your school sends out a lot of committee letters (has a lot of premiers applying for med school), you are enrolled in school, and you do not have that letter, someone may ask about it, and it will likely burn your chances there. While just about everyone else on this thread is advising you to not use the committee letter, I'm instead going to suggest that you try to improve other aspects of your application. If they made your recommendation known to you, see if you can figure out why they made that recommendation, and if your GPA was the only problem. Maybe you just had really weak letters and didnt know about it... I've heard some horror stories to this effect. Maybe they see your PS as weak. Regardless, try to figure it out and go from there. You may end up needing to wait another year to apply.

 

[487806]

My premed committee was quite pleasant to work with and was actually pretty helpful. They were also very accommodating of the fact that I was no longer on campus and applying as an alum.

YMMV, and to each his own.

That's comforting to hear. 👍

 

[iave9963]

Submit the individual letters. The committee letter will destroy your app.

That's the premed committee for you. What a total joke.

OP, if you submit this Committee letter, you might as well set the application on fire. Your cGPA is NOT competetive for medical school, so don't think about applying anywhere until you do some GPA repair. Either re-take all F/D/C grades for AACOMAS, or take an SMP and show us you can handle medical school.

👍

 

[jr93]

If you want to take a principled stand against committee letters, then fine. I disagree that developing a relationship with someone that can help you get into med school is "kissing up."

The point is this: med schools want a committee letter. Your premed committee will be writing that letter. You have the opportunity to meet with them before they write you that important letter. Take that opportunity because some people will (and it's available to everyone, unlike other opportunities). If someone wants to skip the committee letter and suffer any possible consequences, then they should go ahead.

We're arguing separate things. You're saying that developing a relationship is a necessary part of getting into med school. I'm saying it's pointless altogether and that there would be no relationship if it wasn't "required". Obviously people will do it, just like they'll volunteer somewhere they don't want to volunteer. And yes, I will continue to call it kissing up. Endearing yourself to someone for some benefit when you otherwise would not do it is kissing up. There isn't much else I can call it. Just like a lot of volunteering is just app fluff. Also, I maintain that if you are a Chem major, engineering major, exercise phys., or something like that and decide in your senior year that you want to apply to med school, it wouldn't make sense to be punished for not meeting with the pre-med committee throughout college. I also can't understand how a committee is a better assessment than a few professors who actually probably know the student genuinely.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

We're arguing separate things. You're saying that developing a relationship is a necessary part of getting into med school. I'm saying it's pointless altogether and that there would be no relationship if it wasn't "required". Obviously people will do it, just like they'll volunteer somewhere they don't want to volunteer. And yes, I will continue to call it kissing up. Endearing yourself to someone for some benefit when you otherwise would not do it is kissing up. There isn't much else I can call it. Just like a lot of volunteering is just app fluff. Also, I maintain that if you are a Chem major, engineering major, exercise phys., or something like that and decide in your senior year that you want to apply to med school, it wouldn't make sense to be punished for not meeting with the pre-med committee throughout college. I also can't understand how a committee is a better assessment than a few professors who actually probably know the student genuinely.

I agree. and you also have to take into consideration that a lot of pre-meds dont even know about this committee letter unless they peruse SDN or are already starting their application process by which time its too late to form a rapport with your writer.

 

[Barcu]

We're arguing separate things. You're saying that developing a relationship is a necessary part of getting into med school. I'm saying it's pointless altogether and that there would be no relationship if it wasn't "required". Obviously people will do it, just like they'll volunteer somewhere they don't want to volunteer. And yes, I will continue to call it kissing up. Endearing yourself to someone for some benefit when you otherwise would not do it is kissing up. There isn't much else I can call it. Just like a lot of volunteering is just app fluff. Also, I maintain that if you are a Chem major, engineering major, exercise phys., or something like that and decide in your senior year that you want to apply to med school, it wouldn't make sense to be punished for not meeting with the pre-med committee throughout college. I also can't understand how a committee is a better assessment than a few professors who actually probably know the student genuinely.

A committee letter, in almost all cases, will include all of your letters too, so you do have those professors who know you well too.

And keep calling it kissing up if you like. However, the entire application process, heck even med school and being a doctor, is full of doing things you wouldn't do otherwise or developing relationships with people you wouldn't have before. That's how you advance in life. That doesn't make you a suck up or brown-noser. Stop looking at these things so cynically. You need other people to succeed in many cases.

And the person deciding senior year to apply and get a letter? Yeah, that may put them at a disadvantage. But that disadvantage is in more ways than one. They probably lack volunteering and shadowing too. You can still make the committee letter work for you. Heck, I never met with my committee either before the process began, but it turned out ok for me.

And anyway, if anyone is reading this thread and debating whether to get a letter, I will leave you with what LizzyM, an adcom member has said:

Quoted from LizzyM:

The letter is very helpful and predictable. I know when I open a letter from Cornell, or Penn, or Duke exactly what I'm going to find and where it will be located on the page. It makes me very efficient. On the other hand, a student from a school that has a committee letter but who does not submit one has a strike against him/her in the subconscious of the adcom member assigned to review the application. Can't meet deadlines? Too unconventional to do what is expected of everyone? Has something to hide?

So, do you really want a mark on your app because you don't want to "kiss up?" Make the committee letter work for you.

 

[jr93]

A committee letter, in almost all cases, will include all of your letters too, so you do have those professors who know you well too.

And keep calling it kissing up if you like. However, the entire application process, heck even med school and being a doctor, is full of doing things you wouldn't do otherwise or developing relationships with people you wouldn't have before. That's how you advance in life. That doesn't make you a suck up or brown-noser. Stop looking at these things so cynically. You need other people to succeed in many cases.

And the person deciding senior year to apply and get a letter? Yeah, that may put them at a disadvantage. But that disadvantage is in more ways than one. They probably lack volunteering and shadowing too. You can still make the committee letter work for you. Heck, I never met with my committee either before the process began, but it turned out ok for me.

And anyway, if anyone is reading this thread and debating whether to get a letter, I will leave you with what LizzyM, an adcom member has said:




So, do you really want a mark on your app because you don't want to "kiss up?" Make the committee letter work for you.

I'm 30 and have had a pretty successful professional career already. I don't need too many more lessons on the crap you have to go through to get stuff done. I would say that selling out to advance isn't the only way to advance in life. I've always been the guy that does his work, tries to help people, treats people fairly, and then goes home and it's worked out just fine in my career and in school. Also, the people that I've worked with that have had this similar approach are happier in their career. That may be because that type of personality is satisfied not being at the top but many of the people that follow the ladder-climbing mold often only get to the top in small percentages anyway so you do all this stuff to end up with everyone else most of the time. It's always been my policy that I'm not doing 20% more work on top of a normal workload for 2% more of a raise. I'll go home and be with my family and be happy. Similiarly, I wouldn't spend 10 extra hours with a committee to get a few additional nice adjectives in my letters. I was a good med school candidate because of who I am and what I've done, not who I can get to write nice things about me.

 

[Barcu]

I'm 30 and have had a pretty successful professional career already. I don't need too many more lessons on the crap you have to go through to get stuff done. I would say that selling out to advance isn't the only way to advance in life. I've always been the guy that does his work, tries to help people, treats people fairly, and then goes home and it's worked out just fine in my career and in school. Also, the people that I've worked with that have had this similar approach are happier in their career. That may be because that type of personality is satisfied not being at the top but many of the people that follow the ladder-climbing mold often only get to the top in small percentages anyway so you do all this stuff to end up with everyone else most of the time. It's always been my policy that I'm not doing 20% more work on top of a normal workload for 2% more of a raise. I'll go home and be with my family and be happy. Similiarly, I wouldn't spend 10 extra hours with a committee to get a few additional nice adjectives in my letters. I was a good med school candidate because of who I am and what I've done, not who I can get to write nice things about me.

You can be who you are, do what you think is important, and you can do fine in the admissions process. However, building relationships with people is important. I'm not advocating for competitive ladder-climbing here or compromising your values. You are completely exaggerating my point by calling it kissing up and selling out. Meeting with a committee member once or twice a year so that you are a familiar face when it comes time to write a very important letter is selling out?

Everyone reading can make the decision for themselves. If an applicant is ok with raising a red flag before anyone has even read their app, they can ignore the committee.

 

[jr93]

You can be who you are, do what you think is important, and you can do fine in the admissions process. However, building relationships with people is important. I'm not advocating for competitive ladder-climbing here or compromising your values. You are completely exaggerating my point by calling it kissing up and selling out. Meeting with a committee member once or twice a year so that you are a familiar face when it comes time to write a very important letter is selling out?

Everyone reading can make the decision for themselves. If an applicant is ok with raising a red flag before anyone has even read their app, they can ignore the committee.

I'm through the process already so it doesn't matter. I don't care if people use the committee, I'm saying the idea of it is stupid because you're forcing kids to do something they would not otherwise do and I do not see the benefit over letters from multiple professors. Those are hard enough to get, especially for an introvert or someone who just doesn't talk to professors much. Like I said, people will do it because they have to, just like volunteering. I'm saying the committee as a concept is pointless. I'm not sure what we're arguing about. Until there is a nationwide universal system at every undergrad school though, these letters still don't mean much because they will always have to be compared to students at schools that don't have them so what's the point other than to give a layer of power to people that don't really need it.

 

[NickNaylor]

I'm through the process already so it doesn't matter. I don't care if people use the committee, I'm saying the idea of it is stupid because you're forcing kids to do something they would not otherwise do and I do not see the benefit over letters from multiple professors. Those are hard enough to get, especially for an introvert or someone who just doesn't talk to professors much. Like I said, people will do it because they have to, just like volunteering. I'm saying the committee as a concept is pointless. I'm not sure what we're arguing about. Until there is a nationwide universal system at every undergrad school though, these letters still don't mean much because they will always have to be compared to students at schools that don't have them so what's the point other than to give a layer of power to people that don't really need it.

In theory, a school's committee will know it's students well and can provide context to your performance to admissions committees. These letters are also a way for schools to interact with their students so that they can give realistic advice and suggestions to students who aren't perfect applicants. This might be simple self-interest, but it works in the students' favor.

That's not to say that this is abused by some schools, but I think it's far from some kind of power grab as you seem to suggest.

Sent from my SGH-M919

 

[LizzyM]

I'm through the process already so it doesn't matter. I don't care if people use the committee, I'm saying the idea of it is stupid because you're forcing kids to do something they would not otherwise do and I do not see the benefit over letters from multiple professors. Those are hard enough to get, especially for an introvert or someone who just doesn't talk to professors much. Like I said, people will do it because they have to, just like volunteering. I'm saying the committee as a concept is pointless. I'm not sure what we're arguing about. Until there is a nationwide universal system at every undergrad school though, these letters still don't mean much because they will always have to be compared to students at schools that don't have them so what's the point other than to give a layer of power to people that don't really need it.

The good committees help us distinguish among the applicants from their schools. A good committee letter will point out positive things about an applicant that we may miss because we are not experts on the curricula of our 100 favorite feeder schools (e.g. this student took the more demanding o-chem sequence although it was not required for his major). A good committee will provide information about a student's family background that may help put the record in context or point out when a record of extra-curriculars is particularly impressive or exceptional for that campus.

A good committee letter can also provide additional information about the grading rubric at that school and the average gpa of applicants being recommended for admission that year. Some schools will even tell you where the applicant falls among peers by gpa (top 10%, next 10%, and so forth) or provide class rank which is useful at schools that grade inflate or deflate.

A committee can make a good applicant look even better. It can hurt a poor applicant but most will find some traits on which to praise even the academically weakest applicants and to put their accomplishments in context.

A good committee will not be out to screw you but it will be as honest as it can so as to maintain its reputation with adcoms for honesty and reliability.

 

[OhHey]

i cannot say if the score is fair or not, since i don't know your full story and other ecs.

However, with your gpa alone, i would safely comment that you should consider post-bacc later on. Do you think if you apply after your senior year, your gpa might be higher? Unless you get 35+ mcat, 3.35 sgpa is still on the low side. Considering your upward trend, i would have agreed with 3/5 or so, but i can imagine 2/5 might seem realistic to some people. So for your first question, it could seem fair to some people, but probably not me. Maybe i am more optimistic since i have another friend of mine who's going through a very similar situation as yours.

Regarding your second question, i am not sure if you are allowed to submit other individual letters even when your school is able to provide a committee letter (if there's no such committee, you can submit individual letters. But i am not sure if you can do so even when there's a committee). If you can submit without your committee letter (maybe you should check individual school websites and aamc as well), i would do so as long as you have other professors/employers who can talk about you genuinely, not in terms of numbers like gpa.

+1

 

[akademiks1989]

I would personally go to the advisory committee and ask them to provide for you something that is going to help you, not harm you. Like seriously, wtf do they expect you to do with such a terrible letter?

I remember back in high school, I applied to a medical immersion program at the University of Michigan Medical School, and asked my current chemistry teacher to recommend me. She sealed and signed the letter, but me being the dumb high schooler, I opened it. She gave me a 3/5. I did not submit the application.

Maybe I shouldn't have done that, but maybe it would be nice if they tell you beforehand that they can't offer a good letter and to seek it elsewhere. Even when you apply to a job, your previous employers are bound by law not to bad mouth you on some level or another.

Good luck