- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 249
- Reaction score
- 216
Who makes $15 an hour working at a movie theatre? Sign me up so I can quit my current job.
Pre-med is a Waste of Our Time (Literally!)
- Thread starter GallbLad
- Start date
- Joined
- May 3, 2006
- Messages
- 4,698
- Reaction score
- 1,675
Exactly. In high school, very, very few people work crazy hard, volunteer or even do "research." Most people are chillin, barely doing homework or studying. And that's the college bound people. Others are having 1-3 babies, knocking up people, or being high in class/eating vodka filled gummy bears.
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 249
- Reaction score
- 216
I clearly did not do high school right.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 11,139
- Reaction score
- 163
I believe that the OP is referring to the 3-year MD programs that are popping up. I don't think there are dozens of them but they have been gaining in popularity. We have one of the first such programs here at TTUHSC (at least "first" since they stopped doing them back in the '70s). NYU, Mercer, and Columbia have started the same thing I believe. There may be more
These programs are not for all students. Generally only students who know what specialty they want to do
Some articles
www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/medical-school-done-faster/2014/01/13/4b6d9e54-5c40-11e3-be07-006c776266ed_story.html
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...last-just-3-years/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
- Messages
- 156
- Reaction score
- 128
.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 22, 2008
- Messages
- 17,394
- Reaction score
- 9,146
And are likely losing sight of the opportunities available to them in college.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2014
- Messages
- 1,814
- Reaction score
- 1,826
even they went to college, just simply dropped out
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
And yet you are still Pre-med for some odd reason. Why?Four years of our time gone, four years of potential salary gone, and four years of debt accumulated, this is the Pre-Med Life.
Allow me to elaborate:
- It takes around 1000 hours - a very conservative estimate - of our time volunteering, shadowing, and researching. This equates to roughly $15,000 that we could've made working at the movies, or more as a waiter/waitress.
- It takes around $10,000 for the fee of roughly 25 applications, secondaries, plane tickets, taxi fees, hotel fees, and renting/buying an appropriate outfit.
- The average college experience is at least $20,000 year accounting for dorms, tuition, books, meals, and miscellaneous fees.
- The amount of work done preparing for college assignments, exams, and the MCAT is equivalent to a medium-paying job.
In sum, a conservative estimate of the expense would be $105,000, and for most students this would be in debt with interest accruing. Then consider the four years you'll never get back of the 'true' college experience that less rigorous students undertook and the $150,000+ in salary that your high school graduates obtained by simply working at an office.
Now think about medical school, a more intensive version of the Pre-Med Life that has even higher costs.
- The average tuition is around $50,000/year .(I will not include living expense as most your old high school peers have moved out at this point.)
- The prep materials and books average out to well over $5,000
- The work done is equivalent to a high-paying job (manager positions).
This totals out to another $200,000 in the whole with interest accruing. Now consider that most your high school peers at this point are living a very comfortable life now, easing into their permanent jobs, starting a family, and buying a house. Finally, consider these four years that you also missed out on salary.
Both processes sum up to a nice $305,000 in debt, eight years of your life - in the prime of your life in terms of looks and physical prowess, and eight years of salary in a market where the dollar has a reputation of notoriously losing its value by the time the pre-med starts work.
All this, just to gain a residency position to go through hell with midnight call ins, 100 hour work weeks, and a compensation of circa $75,000 to barely make your egregious loan payments. If you're lucky, you won't fall into the pit of doom as a Family Practitioner or Pediatrist, and you will end up making ~$300,000 in a specialty, only to lose most of it to the progressive income tax policies.
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2014
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 45
LOL what high school grads are making $37,500 a year straight out of high school? That's rich. I know plenty of college grads who aren't even making that.
Minimum wage is $8/hr in my state. Assuming a high school grad is making that and has been able to find a full-time job (very rare to get directly hired into a full-time job around here) that would be ~$16.6k/yr. But let's be realistic...an 18 year old with 2 yrs of "official" job experience MAX (probably 0 is more realistic) and a hs diploma is not exactly going to have people throwing job offers at him/her.
Minimum wage is $8/hr in my state. Assuming a high school grad is making that and has been able to find a full-time job (very rare to get directly hired into a full-time job around here) that would be ~$16.6k/yr. But let's be realistic...an 18 year old with 2 yrs of "official" job experience MAX (probably 0 is more realistic) and a hs diploma is not exactly going to have people throwing job offers at him/her.
Last edited:
R
RTC19
Why does everyone refer to college being the time of our lives? I must be missing out on something, because all I see is a bunch of drama and immature kids thinking they know everything.
I think that the reason they have all of these requirements is to weed out people who don't give a damn.
Amen to that!
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2014
- Messages
- 336
- Reaction score
- 136
If you're lucky, you won't fall into the pit of doom as a Family Practitioner or Pediatrist, and you will end up making ~$300,000 in a specialty, only to lose most of it to the progressive income tax policies.
Well not necessarily, that can be avoided. One way would be to make use of tax-deductible/exempt accounts; IRA, HSA, 529, etc.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
- Messages
- 156
- Reaction score
- 128
.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2014
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 28
.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2013
- Messages
- 585
- Reaction score
- 328
I think OP was just pointing out that the process of becoming a Physician has so many hoops to jump through now, and that from many perspectives it is not worth the trouble. You can be fed up with how we "produce" our Doctors while still wanting to become one yourself. Everyone knows that our educational system has flaws, but until somebody can implement the necessary fixes, students are just going to have deal with it. Nobody is going to force you to go to Medical school......
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,034
Right, but there are other avenues as well to get there: Physician Assistant, Nurse Practitioner, etc. It shouldn't be that shocking that Physician demands more education, more years, etc. Whether it's "worth it" is an individual case-by-case basis.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 618
- Reaction score
- 829
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
- Messages
- 8,147
- Reaction score
- 7,732
Saying the status quo is right because it is the status quo is a circuitous argument that makes little sense.
I'd argue that in the US we have systems in place to make people money. College loans from for-profit companies can't be absolved even in bankruptcy. This adds incentive to push students into college. In the US we value capitalism, this is where that argument ends.
I agree with the rest of your statements wholeheartedly.
People rise to the expectations and norms that they're expected to rise to. I think we baby high schoolers and teenagers in our society way too much.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2013
- Messages
- 3,479
- Reaction score
- 1,722
That wasn't what I'm saying.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2012
- Messages
- 760
- Reaction score
- 514
College was actually a great time for me. Most of my friends were non bio majors/non premeds, and entering med school I realized a lot of those successful Premeds aren't my kind of crowd. I wouldn't have traded college for anything, it gave me the skills needed to succeed in such a ridiculously fast paced environment. No loans at my state school helped a bit with my stance too, of course. No point in dropping a ton of money on college if you don't have to.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2013
- Messages
- 501
- Reaction score
- 504
I thought about that as well, but that does nothing to address OPs complaints about premed being too long, a waste, etc, so I assumed they meant BS/MD. Honestly I think he/she just had no idea what they were talking about.
In years 2011-2013 approx. 86K, 89K, and 95K people respectively took MCAT (including repeaters). I’d guess the final total will be close to 100K for 2014 and will probably continue to go up in future. I’d also guess that for most this means they at least made it to end of third year of college with premed hopes still burning for the approx. 20K med school slots available each year. As being premed is a hope, colleges, to my knowledge, do not tend to report student’s hopes. So how many people started or switched to premed and made it to where they actually took MCAT (125K, 150K, 200K)????.
Just considering the numbers of those starting or switching to premed, how other than presently flawed system would you thin out the herd? You can’t just increase med school slots to 50/75K or more as residencies are funded primarily through Medicare and the number has been capped since 1997, good luck getting Congress to approve funds for this idea
Just considering the numbers of those starting or switching to premed, how other than presently flawed system would you thin out the herd? You can’t just increase med school slots to 50/75K or more as residencies are funded primarily through Medicare and the number has been capped since 1997, good luck getting Congress to approve funds for this idea
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2013
- Messages
- 585
- Reaction score
- 328
Are you saying you think it is wrong?
- Joined
- May 18, 2014
- Messages
- 169
- Reaction score
- 183
um
if you actually feel that spending your time volunteering, interacting with patients, and conducting research is a "waste of your time,"
definitely dont become a doctor.
I wont say I haven't been doing said activities with the intention of "buffing up" my med school app, but I know I would find fulfillment in doing them even if I never became a doctor and just ended up working at target or something for the rest of my life. It just happens that medicine will allow me to do these things for a career.
yes, the costs can be daunting, but as per your other complaints (the time, the income, etc.) I seriously recommend re-evaluating your decision to take the pre-med track, before you go down it any further "wasting your time (literally)."
if you actually feel that spending your time volunteering, interacting with patients, and conducting research is a "waste of your time,"
definitely dont become a doctor.
I wont say I haven't been doing said activities with the intention of "buffing up" my med school app, but I know I would find fulfillment in doing them even if I never became a doctor and just ended up working at target or something for the rest of my life. It just happens that medicine will allow me to do these things for a career.
yes, the costs can be daunting, but as per your other complaints (the time, the income, etc.) I seriously recommend re-evaluating your decision to take the pre-med track, before you go down it any further "wasting your time (literally)."
I was being sarcastic. It's an utterly stupid idea that a decision to place students (some still under 18) immediately into med school training (e.g. 6 year program) is based on their high school year’s education and life experiences. As I mentioned above, there is a herd of premed students (125K, 150K, 200K???) who start college based upon hope that they can get to med school under current system. Can you imagine the staggering number of high school students (encouraged by their parents) that would seek to apply to med school after getting their shiny high school diplomas? AMCAS would make a ton of money in app fees. Adcoms would be jumping off bridges. Psychiatrists would do well in fees as special snowflake students and their helicopter parents would seek treatment for their rejection/depression. There are only approx. 20K med school slots available each year and residencies are presently capped. Approx. 1100 med school students did not match in first round in 2014 and 528 med school students did not end up with a residency position in 2014. I agree the current system is not perfect, but it works as least as far as thinning the herd. Sadly of the herd that remains and actually applies to med school, approx. 60% still got rejected in 2013. Is there a better system? Maybe, but it doesn’t involve adding just graduated high school kids to herd.
- Joined
- May 3, 2006
- Messages
- 4,698
- Reaction score
- 1,675
Exactly. For the vast majority of high school students, they definitely aren't volunteering, researching, or even studying as much. Imagine leaving high school and being forced to be a MS1. It's like "Damn, I was high in class all day, and now I have to actually be motivated and focused? Shiznits!". Plus they miss the HUGE fun of college years 🙁
Similar threads
