Pre med wanting to switch

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adamsonoflevi

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I’m currently 28 and working as a medical scribe in a dermatologist’s office which I’ve worked at for almost a year. All of my volunteer hours have been at a children’s hospital and I am your cookie cutter pre-med with a low GPA (3.35 for both science and cum) but a 3.9 upward trend after going vegan and changing my lifestyle.

Well, the thing is, opening an animal sanctuary for farm animals is my dream. And nothing will get me to that dream faster and provide a better outcome than becoming a vet. I would not care about money if I was doing what I loved, and that’s why I had this change of heart. Animals are everything to me, and I’m not exactly the type A personality to become a medical student. In fact, I have pretty bad social anxiety at times and am really quiet. People just stress me out in large quantities and being solitary appeals to me. So, I guess what I’m asking is, is this a feasible goal? Working as a large animal vet and opening a sanctuary? And what goals would you recommend me take in order to make this dream a reality? I know my lack of clinical hours is a hinderance and the thought of taking more time to get those even though I’m already 28 is stress inducing. I just really need to help these animals. Any help would be amazing :)

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A few comments right off the bat:

Assuming you live in the US, running a non-profit animal sanctuary is not going to even make a dent on your $150,000+ student loans. If you were to become a vet, I would say you would be less likely to be able to afford doing that than if you did another career. Large animal pays the worst of all, so even working that on the side you won't be able to manage financially.

Forgive me for making assumptions, but based on your comments about being vegan and wanting to open a farm animal sanctuary, I am assuming you are on the animal rights side of the spectrum. If you are doing large animal, a large part of your work will be working with producers for their herd health and production needs. Those needs being turning those animals into food, or them making food products. Would you be okay with that? What about during school when you have to learn about (and have labs) involving production animals, research animals, and the like?

Veterinary medicine is more about the people than the animals. You will spend oh so much of your day interacting with humans (MUCH more than you will with animals). Plenty of vets are introverts, but if you have bad social anxiety it could potentially be incredibly stressful for you.

Honestly, from what you said I would say vetmed is not at all what you think it is. Financially your plan is definitely unrealistic. I'd highly recommend you shadow a few vets (especially large animal) to get a feel for what your life would be like. You might fall in love with it, you might fall out of love. Regardless, you will not get into vet school without vet experience. I think for the US people on here usually recommend 500+ hours?

You can volunteer at or open an animal sanctuary without being a vet. If that's what you really want to become a vet for, why go to school when you could do it without? :)
 
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A few comments right off the bat:

Assuming you live in the US, running a non-profit animal sanctuary is not going to even make a dent on your $150,000+ student loans. If you were to become a vet, I would say you would be less likely to be able to afford doing that than if you did another career. Large animal pays the worst of all, so even working that on the side you won't be able to manage financially.

Forgive me for making assumptions, but based on your comments about being vegan and wanting to open a farm animal sanctuary, I am assuming you are on the animal rights side of the spectrum. If you are doing large animal, a large part of your work will be working with producers for their herd health and production needs. Those needs being turning those animals into food, or them making food products. Would you be okay with that? What about during school when you have to learn about (and have labs) involving production animals, research animals, and the like?

Veterinary medicine is more about the people than the animals. You will spend oh so much of your day interacting with humans (MUCH more than you will with animals). Plenty of vets are introverts, but if you have bad social anxiety it could potentially be incredibly stressful for you.

Honestly, from what you said I would say vetmed is not at all what you think it is. Financially your plan is definitely unrealistic. I'd highly recommend you shadow a few vets (especially large animal) to get a feel for what your life would be like. You might fall in love with it, you might fall out of love. Regardless, you will not get into vet school without vet experience. I think for the US people on here usually recommend 500+ hours?

You can volunteer at or open an animal sanctuary without being a vet. If that's what you really want to become a vet for, why go to school when you could do it without? :)
A few comments right off the bat:

Assuming you live in the US, running a non-profit animal sanctuary is not going to even make a dent on your $150,000+ student loans. If you were to become a vet, I would say you would be less likely to be able to afford doing that than if you did another career. Large animal pays the worst of all, so even working that on the side you won't be able to manage financially.

Forgive me for making assumptions, but based on your comments about being vegan and wanting to open a farm animal sanctuary, I am assuming you are on the animal rights side of the spectrum. If you are doing large animal, a large part of your work will be working with producers for their herd health and production needs. Those needs being turning those animals into food, or them making food products. Would you be okay with that? What about during school when you have to learn about (and have labs) involving production animals, research animals, and the like?

Veterinary medicine is more about the people than the animals. You will spend oh so much of your day interacting with humans (MUCH more than you will with animals). Plenty of vets are introverts, but if you have bad social anxiety it could potentially be incredibly stressful for you.

Honestly, from what you said I would say vetmed is not at all what you think it is. Financially your plan is definitely unrealistic. I'd highly recommend you shadow a few vets (especially large animal) to get a feel for what your life would be like. You might fall in love with it, you might fall out of love. Regardless, you will not get into vet school without vet experience. I think for the US people on here usually recommend 500+ hours?

You can volunteer at or open an animal sanctuary without being a vet. If that's what you really want to become a vet for, why go to school when you could do it without? :)

Thank you for your reply!! I was definitely expecting this kind of wake up call but I also have additional questions. Working as a business owner of my own non-profit, running an animal sanctuary, wouldn’t my loans be forgiven after a certain amount of time? You are right though, I am on the animal rights side of things and those things you brought up are especially troubling, even horrifying. I’ve heard of a school (I forget the name) that is more geared toward vegans. Do you know of any like that?

Unfortunately, I doubt myself opening a business because of my shy demeanor and lack of money to be honest. Plus I’m already 60,000 in debt. I feel like being a vet will increase the likeliness that people will support my organization. This would be the dream though. I would love to skip straight to helping animals in that magnitude.

I’m unsure why I decided to go to medical school. I wanted to do preventative cardiology as it interests me a lot, but the money definitely speaks and I would be far more interested in learning about human anatomy now that I think about it. So it’s not like I’m completely writing that off. I can be awkward, but I make progress constantly so I think I’ll be fine. I just wish I had a crystal ball to be honest
 
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Working as a business owner of my own non-profit, running an animal sanctuary, wouldn’t my loans be forgiven after a certain amount of time?
Depends on if the PSLF is still even around by the time you graduate vet school, which would be at least 5 years away minimum, assuming you could get enough experience and got in next cycle (which I think the average number of cycles is 2.7 or something?)
And then depends on if a non profit you start up with money out of your pocket that you don’t have, actually takes off and does well enough for 10 years that you can survive with basically no salary (because who’s paying you? You are. With what money? Whatever the sanctuary makes. Which is minimal). And you still have to make minimum payments every month for 10 years. And be employed full time for 10 years at a non-profit. And that’s also if your non-profit would even qualify you for PSLF (I don’t know what the requirements are).
And also, afaik its been incredibly difficult for the people who were eligible for PSLF to actually GET the forgiveness.
Any sort of government loan forgiveness program out there you should NOT bank on being able to use and it being around long enough for you to benefit from it.
 
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Thank you for your reply!! I was definitely expecting this kind of wake up call but I also have additional questions. Working as a business owner of my own non-profit, running an animal sanctuary, wouldn’t my loans be forgiven after a certain amount of time? You are right though, I am on the animal rights side of things and those things you brought up are especially troubling, even horrifying. I’ve heard of a school (I forget the name) that is more geared toward vegans. Do you know of any like that?

Unfortunately, I doubt myself opening a business because of my shy demeanor and lack of money to be honest. Plus I’m already 60,000 in debt. I feel like being a vet will increase the likeliness that people will support my organization. This would be the dream though. I would love to skip straight to helping animals in that magnitude.

I’m unsure why I decided to go to medical school. I wanted to do preventative cardiology as it interests me a lot, but the money definitely speaks and I would be far more interested in learning about human anatomy now that I think about it. So it’s not like I’m completely writing that off. I can be awkward, but I make progress constantly so I think I’ll be fine. I just wish I had a crystal ball to be honest
I'll leave the financial specifics to Ski and others who are more familiar.

Veterinary medicine is all around animal welfare, not animal rights. My school specifically asks you to define animal rights vs animal welfare in your interview, since they want people who are on the welfare side of the continuum. I don't know of any schools geared towards animal rights individuals (vegan is a diet choice that doesn't necessarily reflect your animal beliefs), though you can find certain schools that don't do terminal surgeries, don't do as much tissue dissection (more simulation), etc. If that isn't your instate school, that will cost you more money.

Regardless, the use of animals is imperative in your training and your career. Your embalmed dissection dog most likely comes from a company that specifically euthanizes and produces embalmed models for teaching. The rodents you work with during your lab animal handling are euthanized once they reach their endpoint according the to institutional Animal Care Committee. The fresh tissue limbs you get in anatomy often come from local slaughterhouses. At my institution we have a commercial poultry barn and dairy barn on campus (plus a feedlot off campus) that you will have to spend time at and work in during school. No matter what school you are at, you WILL be using animals that are present (alive or dead) for the sole purpose of helping you learn.

I think some shadowing might really help you. Also, why not volunteer at a sanctuary in the meantime? That way, if you do decide vet school is for you, you have some extra animal experience hours. If not, spending time at the sanctuary will let you meet people who can tell you how they manage to work the sanctuary into their life and what lifestyles/careers allow that.
 
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I’m currently 28 and working as a medical scribe in a dermatologist’s office which I’ve worked at for almost a year. All of my volunteer hours have been at a children’s hospital and I am your cookie cutter pre-med with a low GPA (3.35 for both science and cum) but a 3.9 upward trend after going vegan and changing my lifestyle.

Well, the thing is, opening an animal sanctuary for farm animals is my dream. And nothing will get me to that dream faster and provide a better outcome than becoming a vet. I would not care about money if I was doing what I loved, and that’s why I had this change of heart. Animals are everything to me, and I’m not exactly the type A personality to become a medical student. In fact, I have pretty bad social anxiety at times and am really quiet. People just stress me out in large quantities and being solitary appeals to me. So, I guess what I’m asking is, is this a feasible goal? Working as a large animal vet and opening a sanctuary? And what goals would you recommend me take in order to make this dream a reality? I know my lack of clinical hours is a hinderance and the thought of taking more time to get those even though I’m already 28 is stress inducing. I just really need to help these animals. Any help would be amazing :)
I'm not really sure why you think opening an animal sanctuary and being a large animal vet are similar things? If you are on the animal rights spectrum, you will not enjoy large animal medicine. Unless you work with horses, it will be almost exclusively working with animals that will be used for food. Plus, veterinary medicine is lots of working with people (since they own the animals). The hours are very long, the pay is very poor, and the debt is very high. None of those are conducive to starting an animal sanctuary, which first and foremost requires having time and money. I would advise volunteering at a few sanctuaries instead. Talk to the founders, if you can, or the volunteers. Ask about their background and how they got started. The vast majority of animal sanctuaries are not run by veterinarians, so you definitely don't need to be a veterinarian to be taken seriously or be successful, and again, I would highly recommend against it.
 
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I'll leave the financial specifics to Ski and others who are more familiar.

Veterinary medicine is all around animal welfare, not animal rights. My school specifically asks you to define animal rights vs animal welfare in your interview, since they want people who are on the welfare side of the continuum. I don't know of any schools geared towards animal rights individuals (vegan is a diet choice that doesn't necessarily reflect your animal beliefs), though you can find certain schools that don't do terminal surgeries, don't do as much tissue dissection (more simulation), etc. If that isn't your instate school, that will cost you more money.

Regardless, the use of animals is imperative in your training and your career. Your embalmed dissection dog most likely comes from a company that specifically euthanizes and produces embalmed models for teaching. The rodents you work with during your lab animal handling are euthanized once they reach their endpoint according the to institutional Animal Care Committee. The fresh tissue limbs you get in anatomy often come from local slaughterhouses. At my institution we have a commercial poultry barn and dairy barn on campus (plus a feedlot off campus) that you will have to spend time at and work in during school. No matter what school you are at, you WILL be using animals that are present (alive or dead) for the sole purpose of helping you learn.

I think some shadowing might really help you. Also, why not volunteer at a sanctuary in the meantime? That way, if you do decide vet school is for you, you have some extra animal experience hours. If not, spending time at the sanctuary will let you meet people who can tell you how they manage to work the sanctuary into their life and what lifestyles/careers allow that.
I had a friend who went to UF’s vet school and they used to require their students to kill the chickens they would be working on in lab that day. For anyone, this can be traumatic, especially an animal rights person. From what I hear, UF no longer requires this of their students, though.
 
So everyone has made a really good point, and the only thing I’m going to add to that discussion: it’s really hard to be a large animal vet and also be vegan. I think the government regulated policies behind what you legally cannot do in food animals will drive you mad. Do you know that the US government says that you can not give metronidazole (antibiotic/ antiprotozoal) to any cow/ sheep/ chicken/ pig/ food animal? Even if the animal will never ever ever enter the food chain and will live it’s life in a sanctuary.


But I wanted to point out these things:
and I’m not exactly the type A personality to become a medical student. In fact, I have pretty bad social anxiety at times and am really quiet. People just stress me out in large quantities and being solitary appeals to me.
My vet school might be different than most, but the vast majority of us (>90%) are the type A personality. We love the science, we love animals, and we love to compete. It’s just part of the game of vet school.

And the social anxiety thing, I totally understand. I have diagnosed social anxiety, myself, along with some other mental health disorders. We, unfortunately, still have to deal with humans a lot in veterinary medicine. I can’t think of any speciality in which you could not talk to humans (maybe radiology?).

Most importantly, if your social anxiety is that bad that you are considering a change in profession because of it, you need to go to a therapist and you need to get some meds. It’s okay to have anxiety, it’s not okay to run from it your whole life.
 
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Become a doctor. Fund your sanctuary with your couple to several hundred thousand dollar a year doctor salary. That is my 100% honest advice.

Or don’t become a doctor if you really don’t want, but find a good job and find a way to volunteer or otherwise help animals. But I don’t think being a vet will work for you in the scenario you have described for reasons already stated.

Good luck!
 
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Have you actually shadowed a vet at all? Ever?

I mean this in the kindest way possible, but your posts read like someone who has exactly no experience and thinks that vet med is just helping animals and being a miracle worker, and that it's a good alternative for someone who doesn't like people. It's not. In some ways, I think you need to have better people skills as a vet than as a doctor.

This is not a career you should switch to if you can see yourself doing literally anything else and being happy. The debt:income ratio is too big.
 
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Vet med is not the path to take to achieve your dream. It sounds like human medicine isn’t something you’d enjoy, either.


My recommendation is to find a career that you will enjoy and volunteer at a local sanctuary. Maybe you can open your own at some point, or take up a managerial role in an existing one. But becoming a veterinarian is not really a good idea for you for many reasons.
 
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I’ve heard of a school (I forget the name) that is more geared toward vegans. Do you know of any like that?

Going to address this one directly as well: the schools are geared towards animal health and welfare, not towards the students perceptions as such. Of the 30 US based school, none of them are catered directly to or for vegans. I would imagine it's safe to assume that there are vegans and low key animal rights folks found in every school.

What matters is keeping an open mind about what you're being taught and why.
 
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Going to address this one directly as well: the schools are geared towards animal health and welfare, not towards the students perceptions as such. Of the 30 US based school, none of them are catered directly to or for vegans. I would imagine it's safe to assume that there are vegans and low key animal rights folks found in every school.

What matters is keeping an open mind about what you're being taught and why.
I think the only schools who might have more vegans in it would be the states who are more pro-vegan. So the coasts, especially California. Definitely not the Midwest/ south, where production is a major part of their living.
 
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I’m currently 28 and working as a medical scribe in a dermatologist’s office which I’ve worked at for almost a year. All of my volunteer hours have been at a children’s hospital and I am your cookie cutter pre-med with a low GPA (3.35 for both science and cum) but a 3.9 upward trend after going vegan and changing my lifestyle.

Well, the thing is, opening an animal sanctuary for farm animals is my dream. And nothing will get me to that dream faster and provide a better outcome than becoming a vet. I would not care about money if I was doing what I loved, and that’s why I had this change of heart. Animals are everything to me, and I’m not exactly the type A personality to become a medical student. In fact, I have pretty bad social anxiety at times and am really quiet. People just stress me out in large quantities and being solitary appeals to me. So, I guess what I’m asking is, is this a feasible goal? Working as a large animal vet and opening a sanctuary? And what goals would you recommend me take in order to make this dream a reality? I know my lack of clinical hours is a hinderance and the thought of taking more time to get those even though I’m already 28 is stress inducing. I just really need to help these animals. Any help would be amazing :)


Then you might want to seriously reconsider vet med. Interacting with clients is a HUGE part of the job - and one of the most stressful. Think of it as being a pediatrician - you are treating the kid who can't speak for himself, but you are interacting constantly with the parents, explaining treatments to them, fighting with them over treatment plans and costs, repeating yourself ad nauseum while they argue that what they read on the internet is real and you're a horrible person whop is just init for the money, etc.
 
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Then you might want to seriously reconsider vet med. Interacting with clients is a HUGE part of the job - and one of the most stressful. Think of it as being a pediatrician - you are treating the kid who can't speak for himself, but you are interacting constantly with the parents, explaining treatments to them, fighting with them over treatment plans and costs, repeating yourself ad nauseum while they argue that what they read on the internet is real and you're a horrible person whop is just init for the money, etc.
Definitely like being a pediatrician because there’s also anti-vaxxers :laugh:
 
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Contrary to what is sometimes a popular belief, your job does not have to encompass all of your passions. Of course you have to enjoy it and be dedicated to it, but at the end of the day your job is what puts food on the table. All the bull we have been fed about "following your dream" has put a lot of people into areas that, in all honesty, don't pay well (and arguably are not even valid primary career options) and should have been left as things to pursue outside of work as enrichment. Running an animal sanctuary , for most people, falls in that second category.

Do you think people who work in department stores are living their dream? Of course not. They have hobbies and things outside of their job that contribute to their happiness. You can, and should, have passions outside of work. - in this case, your love of animals and sanctuary work could definitely be that, while (human) medicine would be your job. E.g. I absolutely love literature, but there was no way I was going to be an literature major in college and have to fight for a paycheck every year of my life thereafter.
 
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Contrary to what is sometimes a popular belief, your job does not have to encompass all of your passions. Of course you have to enjoy it and be dedicated to it, but at the end of the day your job is what puts food on the table. All the bull we have been fed about "following your dream" has put a lot of people into areas that, in all honesty, don't pay well (and arguably are not even valid primary career options) and should have been left as things to pursue outside of work as enrichment. Running an animal sanctuary , for most people, falls in that second category.

Do you think people who work in department stores are living their dream? Of course not. They have hobbies and things outside of their job that contribute to their happiness. You can, and should, have passions outside of work. - in this case, your love of animals and sanctuary work could definitely be that, while (human) medicine would be your job. E.g. I absolutely love literature, but there was no way I was going to be an literature major in college and have to fight for a paycheck every year of my life thereafter.

So much this. We need to stop telling children that life is a fairy tale and you can do whatever it is you want. It isn't true. You can't. Sometimes because what you want to do isn't practical and sometimes because it won't put food on the ****ing table, pay the electricity and keep a roof over your head. We need to teach children to not turn the one thing they get the most enjoyment out of into a job, because a job is work and it eventually will taint that one thing you enjoy; keep that as a hobby and pick something else you like but can actually be ok with it turning into "work" and not a "for fun" hobby.

When you turn your greatest life enjoyments into your job, they become work, they become something you now HAVE to do if you want to survive. Turning a hobby into work can lead to resentment, keep it as a hobby where you can come back to it as you want.
 
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Well, the thing is, opening an animal sanctuary for farm animals is my dream. And nothing will get me to that dream faster and provide a better outcome than becoming a vet. I would not care about money if I was doing what I loved, and that’s why I had this change of heart. Animals are everything to me, and I’m not exactly the type A personality to become a medical student.

Also, just as a side note, you might want to a bit more careful in how you write....it sounds a bit like you are implying that it takes less academic drive to be a veterinarian than it does a physician. I can assure you that the average vet student is just as "type A" as the average med student and the application process just as cutthroat. Vet school should not be a "Plan B" academically....you'll be in for a rude awakening as to how incredibly demanding it is. I'm sure you didn't exactly mean it that way, but maybe just think a bit more before you type.
 
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So much this. We need to stop telling children that life is a fairy tale and you can do whatever it is you want. It isn't true. You can't. Sometimes because what you want to do isn't practical and sometimes because it won't put food on the ****ing table, pay the electricity and keep a roof over your head. We need to teach children to not turn the one thing they get the most enjoyment out of into a job, because a job is work and it eventually will taint that one thing you enjoy; keep that as a hobby and pick something else you like but can actually be ok with it turning into "work" and not a "for fun" hobby.

When you turn your greatest life enjoyments into your job, they become work, they become something you now HAVE to do if you want to survive. Turning a hobby into work can lead to resentment, keep it as a hobby where you can come back to it as you want.

This! All the talk about following your dreams and whatever has done our generation a huge disservice. Not that you should be miserable at your job but your primary goal in life should not be to become the one person who has found career success and financial stability by becoming a master underwater basket weaver or whatever. And yes, I direct that toward many ore-vets and career changers, unfortunately.
 
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Oh me me I know the answer

I volunteer at a farm run by a large animal veterinarian who is a vegan AND she used to run a horse rescue.

I say used to because well see what happened was the horse rescue was a separate entity than the vet clinic. They can't legally operate as one (one is for profit one is not). So, she brought on a board of directors to help run the rescue and she stayed on the board as an officer.

It went OK for a while. But, the rescue contracted with the farm to get discounted boarding. She ran the farm and was also on the board: This was a conflict of interest. Ultimately, the board voted her off, created a huge uproar amongst volunteers and emotions ran really high. The end result is that the organization dissolved. Once you have a nonprofit, with a board of directors, it is NOT yours. You will not run it, you may not have any control of it.
So don't become a vet if your goal is to have a nonprofit. Become a vet if your goal is to be a vet.

Tldr: don't do it

(Side note, I had to drastically shift my perspectives on animal welfare to apply to get school. Imo the hardest thing will be having a sick patient and the owner refusing treatment and you cannot do anything)
 
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@Coopah vegans? You’re the only CA a person I know off the top of my head!
Yes there are a lot of vegans at my school. Not sure what exactly "vegan friendly" means as far as the curriculum goes though. We still have to do necropsies and learn everything the way every other vet student does. I don't know of any school that will 100% allow you to go through and not do those sorts of things. I suppose I'm not entirely sure what you mean by vegan friendly.
 
Yes there are a lot of vegans at my school. Not sure what exactly "vegan friendly" means as far as the curriculum goes though. We still have to do necropsies and learn everything the way every other vet student does. I don't know of any school that will 100% allow you to go through and not do those sorts of things. I suppose I'm not entirely sure what you mean by vegan friendly.

Unfortunately, I think deep down we know exactly what he or she means given that they find the idea of learning about food animal/production medicine "horrifying" and admit they are a supporter of "animal rights" :rolleyes:
 
Unfortunately, I think deep down we know exactly what he or she means given that they find the idea of learning about food animal/production medicine "horrifying" and admit they are a supporter of "animal rights" :rolleyes:
Didn't they want to be a large animal vet??? So much confusion :confused:
 
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