Pre-nup, Medical School, and Expectations

[pianola]

There's been this long discussion about pre-nups in the Who To Marry thread, so I became a bit curious about how many people would consider one and/or have considered one.

Option 1: I will absolutely get a pre-nup. (I'm a man)

Option 2: I would consider a pre-nup. (I'm a man)

Option 3: I would consider a pre-nup, but it is a distasteful option. (I'm a man)

Option 4: I will not consider a pre-nup. (I'm a man)

Option 5: I will absolutely get a pre-nup. (I'm a woman)

Option 6: I would consider a pre-nup. (I'm a woman)

Option 7: I would consider a pre-nup, but it is a distasteful option. (I'm a woman)

Option 8: I will not consider a pre-nup. (I'm a woman)

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[ButImLETired]

Interesting question. My feeling about it is that it would entirely depend on how much I'm making and my future husband is making. If there's a huge difference (on either side), I'd insist on the pre-nup, because in that case our finances wouldn't really be that simple to figure out in case of a divorce. Otherwise, if our salaries or salary potentials (say if he's a stay at home dad or if I'm working part-time but potentially we could be making about the same) were to be about equal, I'd still consider a pre-nup but wouldn't push for it.

Edit: I also tend to be attracted to very pragmatic, rational sorts of people, so I sort of expect my future hubby to have a serious conversation about finances with me, and to possibly insist on a prenup.

 

[pianola]

Yeah that's a good point about salary differences.

Also, note: it's a private poll.

 

[pianola]

I wonder how much the results of this poll are influenced by salary expectations. (i.e. Do women expect to make somewhat less than their partners? Do men expect to make more than their partners? Who has no expectations about salaries?)

 

[Dr Lyss]

I'd definitely consider it. I mean, if we are making the decision to get married and live the rest of our lives together 1) nothing should be off limits and 2) we are going to have to discuss finances eventually. I think of it as a way of getting on the same page. I'm not talking about these crazy celeb prenups where if I gain 20 pounds I lose rights to this and that. I would agree to something very simple and sensical that protects both of us & our future children. Shoot, I'd agree to give up everything and give it to our kids if we both agreed to it. If my future husband was really against it I wouldn't push it, but I think it's just a good protection plan in case of a messy divorce -- which no one wants to go through

 

[pianola]

I'd definitely consider it. I mean, if we are making the decision to get married and live the rest of our lives together 1) nothing should be off limits and 2) we are going to have to discuss finances eventually. I think of it as a way of getting on the same page. I'm not talking about these crazy celeb prenups where if I gain 20 pounds I lose rights to this and that. I would agree to something very simple and sensical that protects both of us & our future children. Shoot, I'd agree to give up everything and give it to our kids if we both agreed to it. If my future husband was really against it I wouldn't push it, but I think it's just a good protection plan in case of a messy divorce -- which no one wants to go through

That's a good point. Prenups can say whatever you want them to.

The gender division in the poll is interesting, though.

 

[aznb0y129]

That's a good point. Prenups can say whatever you want them to.

The gender division in the poll is interesting, though.

In contrast, I venture to say that it's exactly what one might expect.

 

[ButImLETired]

I wonder how much the results of this poll are influenced by salary expectations. (i.e. Do women expect to make somewhat less than their partners? Do men expect to make more than their partners? Who has no expectations about salaries?)

I imagine a lot. And I imagine the results are very different from "average" because this is SDN. Chances are, a lot of men here don't expect to marry physicians (their main role models, established doctors, are usually not married to other doctors because back when said established doctors started working, female MDs were still kinda rare), while a lot more women might. So while the women probably don't foresee a huge earning potential difference between themselves and their spouses, men probably do.

I know at least in my case that I'll most likely end up specializing. The fields I'm most interested in so far are EP cardiology, interventional radiology, or anesthesiology. These are all pretty lucrative, so as far as I'm concerned, I won't need my husband's money. I'm also kinda expecting to end up either with another doctor, or a highly educated professional of some kind, just because those are the kinds of people with whom I feel I have enough in common (and who have similar values to mine). So he won't be hurting for money either.

Anyway, these are just musings.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Prenups are done when one or both partners come into a relationship with assets. You cannot include in the prenup assets/salary that will be made, i.e. students usually don't get prenups. I believe the law basically says that assets gained or money made during the relationship are more or less shared by both parties. Just like how student loans are shared if someone who is married goes to school after the marriage.

I would get a prenup if I had a successfull career and had built up assets. A prenup is beneficial to both parties because it clearly states what both parties gets if a marriage is dissolved. I tend to think if someone does not want a prenup then they themselves are insecure in the marriage. Prenups are made under the understanding that it will never need to be used.

I believe most states require both parties have their own lawyers inspect the prenup so interest is not conflicted. Seriously, prenups aren't bad.

 

[testingpig]

I will not get a prenup. I am not such a bad person. If I replace my wife for a younger wife, she should have 1/2. And women generally don't dump me, I dumb them. But I have some confessions to make. I think I am being punished in the med school applications because of some thigns I had done in the past. Here are some incidents that come to mind:

-I was 12. I just moved to usa. I was sitting in a classroom for foreigners. I bent down to pick up my pencil. And the girl sitting next to me decided to pet my hair, show affection. People started going "oooh". I said in a girlish voice "go to hell, you stupid". She replied "ruffian" and was visibly shocked. I later gave "five" to some guys, they acknowledged that I defeated a girl. I know it was that age when you hated girls, but it was really the lowest point in my life. Even worse than getting rejected by med schools right now. I don't remember what she looked like (but vaguely remember not ugly and not pretty) or her name. And she definitely did not deserve anything but affection. Maybe I could find one of the guys who witnessed this and ask him if he remembers her. I remember there was a guy named "beaver" that gave me 5, and I could find him on facebook using some mutual friend list.
-I was 14. Was interested in some girl as a fetish. The only thing that attracted me was that she had long blonde hair. I once decided to follow her after school. My classes ended a period after hers, but I waited outside. Then I saw her and followed her and stopped her. I said "hi" -"hi" "do you want me?" -"hahaha". so i said "ok sorry I gotta run back to class". I came to class 20minutes late. I told everyone about this. Called her a bitch. But felt bad regarding that girl. She later had a car accident and she had to walk with a cane. She also lost a lot of weight so I wondered if she had aids. So we again shared a class once when I was a senior. I was just minding my business and she told some other girl "this guy is such a jerk. he used to tell me he loves me and now that I have a car accident he pretends not to know me", so I butted in "Do I know you?"

I've had about a dozen such antisocial incidents. I am deeply sorry about all of them.

 

[aznb0y129]

^^ What the...

 

[chiz2kul]

I will not get a prenup. I am not such a bad person. If I replace my wife for a younger wife, she should have 1/2. And women generally don't dump me, I dumb them. But I have some confessions to make. I think I am being punished in the med school applications because of some thigns I had done in the past. Here are some incidents that come to mind:

-I was 12. I just moved to usa. I was sitting in a classroom for foreigners. I bent down to pick up my pencil. And the girl sitting next to me decided to pet my hair, show affection. People started going "oooh". I said in a girlish voice "go to hell, you stupid". She replied "ruffian" and was visibly shocked. I later gave "five" to some guys, they acknowledged that I defeated a girl. I know it was that age when you hated girls, but it was really the lowest point in my life. Even worse than getting rejected by med schools right now. I don't remember what she looked like (but vaguely remember not ugly and not pretty) or her name. And she definitely did not deserve anything but affection. Maybe I could find one of the guys who witnessed this and ask him if he remembers her. I remember there was a guy named "beaver" that gave me 5, and I could find him on facebook using some mutual friend list.
-I was 14. Was interested in some girl as a fetish. The only thing that attracted me was that she had long blonde hair. I once decided to follow her after school. My classes ended a period after hers, but I waited outside. Then I saw her and followed her and stopped her. I said "hi" -"hi" "do you want me?" -"hahaha". so i said "ok sorry I gotta run back to class". I came to class 20minutes late. I told everyone about this. Called her a bitch. But felt bad regarding that girl. She later had a car accident and she had to walk with a cane. She also lost a lot of weight so I wondered if she had aids. So we again shared a class once when I was a senior. I was just minding my business and she told some other girl "this guy is such a jerk. he used to tell me he loves me and now that I have a car accident he pretends not to know me", so I butted in "Do I know you?"

I've had about a dozen such antisocial incidents. I am deeply sorry about all of them.

What the...???

 

[tiedyeddog]

I will not get a prenup. I am not such a bad person. If I replace my wife for a younger wife, she should have 1/2. And women generally don't dump me, I dumb them. But I have some confessions to make. I think I am being punished in the med school applications because of some thigns I had done in the past. Here are some incidents that come to mind:

A prenup protects each party from losing things they had built up BEFORE the marriage, not during. Why does it make sense for one spouse to get assets owned BEFORE the marriage upon dissolution of the marriage? Makes no sense to me.

 

[virusgirl]

What the...???

My thoughts exactly.

 

[chessknt]

A pre-nup is a get-out-of-marriage free card for people that dont like to work at their relationships or make stupid marriage decisions in the first place. Marriage is supposed ot be based of mutual respect and trust, that should include all assets, not just those acquired after marriage.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Even though my brain tells me that a pre-nup makes sense, I just can't bring myself to think about it. If I'm not sold on the person I'm marrying being the person I'm going to be with for the rest of my life, then I don't have any business getting married to them.

Yes, peoples' minds change... but I just don't see myself having the heart to talk to my wife about the possibility of our marriage failing just as we're starting it out. It's probably the practical thing to do, but I probably just won't do it.

 

[pianola]

I just don't see myself having the heart to talk to my wife about the possibility of our marriage failing just as we're starting it out. It's probably the practical thing to do, but I probably just won't do it.

I can't tell you how strongly I feel you on this point.

 

[scg]

A pre-nup is a get-out-of-marriage free card for people that dont like to work at their relationships or make stupid marriage decisions in the first place. Marriage is supposed ot be based of mutual respect and trust, that should include all assets, not just those acquired after marriage.

Having a get-out-of-marriage free card is amazing. I recommend everyone to get one unless you make less money than your partner. If you make less money I recommend you divorce as soon as possible and move on to your next victim.

 

[ZeusonRoids]

I don't see how I could get a prenup. I plan on having one wife and growing old together with her. I feel that both people in the relationship should bring something to the table...maybe they are different things. If I earn a bunch of $$$ maybe my wife will keep my social life going for me (I love when my GFs do that by calling my friends, setting engagements, and picking out my clothes...).Either way if the worst happens and we end up divorcing, she will have kept me sane for the years we were together and she should be compensated for that.

 

[chessknt]

Having a get-out-of-marriage free card is amazing. I recommend everyone to get one unless you make less money than your partner. If you make less money I recommend you divorce as soon as possible and move on to your next victim.

I hope this is sarcasm but if it isnt, just dont get married. No point if it is a constant source of paranoia and frustration.

 

[pianola]

I don't see how I could get a prenup. I plan on having one wife and growing old together with her. I feel that both people in the relationship should bring something to the table...maybe they are different things. If I earn a bunch of $$$ maybe my wife will keep my social life going for me (I love when my GFs do that by calling my friends, setting engagements, and picking out my clothes...).Either way if the worst happens and we end up divorcing, she will have kept me sane for the years we were together and she should be compensated for that.

That's a really interesting way of thinking about it. How does one go about measuring the worth of the intangibles in a relationship? (You don't, I guess).

 

[tiedyeddog]

A pre-nup is a get-out-of-marriage free card for people that dont like to work at their relationships or make stupid marriage decisions in the first place. Marriage is supposed ot be based of mutual respect and trust, that should include all assets, not just those acquired after marriage.

Just add a "sunset provision" (thanks wikipedia!) that makes the prenup expire after X years. Both parties need to agree on it, anyway.

My main point is that it takes two people to make a marriage. When either quits (the one with assets or not) that marriage is effectively over.

 

[pianola]

A pre-nup is a get-out-of-marriage free card for people that dont like to work at their relationships or make stupid marriage decisions in the first place. Marriage is supposed ot be based of mutual respect and trust, that should include all assets, not just those acquired after marriage.

Well, if both parties agree on the pre-nup, then I don't see how the mutual respect or trust is lost.

 

[Revilla]

I wonder how much the results of this poll are influenced by salary expectations. (i.e. Do women expect to make somewhat less than their partners? Do men expect to make more than their partners? Who has no expectations about salaries?)

I voted that I will not consider a pre-nup, but my reasoning is because of my individual situation. I'm a female and also a non-traditional pre-med. My boyfriend/fiance and I have been together for nine years (since college) and we never got married because my former career took me to states I wasn't sure I wanted to settle down in permanently. He's a music teacher so it seemed silly for him to uproot his life every few years to travel with me as my career required me to move around a lot.

When I left that career and began on this journey toward med school, he supported me 100%. I couldn't ask for a better partner. I still remember my first pre-reqs and how nervous I was about going back to school and sitting next to science geniuses with such a weak science background. He made flashcards for me, quizzed me before every test, allowed me to teach him various topics because it helped me to learn them, researched the topics I was working on so he could help me sort through them. He was always there to hear me vent if I was frustrated, to hear me cheer after I got a good grade, to root me on before the MCAT and take me out afterwards, and basically to just stand beside me, whatever I needed.

We're planning to get married eventually (though it might be after med school) and there's no way I would ever play the finance game with him, even though he'll most likely be making less I will if I manage to build a successful practice. If I get into med school, it's as much because of his love and support as it is about my own hard work.

 

[DrYoda]

Option 1: with the divorce rate in the country it only makes sense.

 

[scg]

I don't see how I could get a prenup. I plan on having one wife and growing old together with her. I feel that both people in the relationship should bring something to the table...maybe they are different things. If I earn a bunch of $$$ maybe my wife will keep my social life going for me (I love when my GFs do that by calling my friends, setting engagements, and picking out my clothes...).Either way if the worst happens and we end up divorcing, she will have kept me sane for the years we were together and she should be compensated for that.

I don't think people dispute that your partner should receive compensation for the opportunity cost they undertook during your time together but I think the debate is over the resources you had prior to meeting your partner.

You're saying she should be compensated for the years you were together but the question is how much she should be compensated? Should she receive resources you earned prior to you meeting/marrying her (obviously during this time she was not there to provide services for you such as keeping you sane/social life stuff)?

 

[tiedyeddog]

Well, if both parties agree on the pre-nup, then I don't see how the mutual respect or trust is lost.

I totally agree with this. Its not like the person with less assets will except nothing after a divorce (and I think most prenups have to be reasonable, so one could be thrown out if a family court judge thought one was unreasonable to one party.)

A prenup will write in stone what each person gets IF there is a divorce. I think most people think prenup = will get a divorce. Not necessarily true.

 

[scg]

I hope this is sarcasm but if it isnt, just dont get married. No point if it is a constant source of paranoia and frustration.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Assuming that wasn't sarcasm, how is "just don't get married" good advice? Wouldn't that destroy my career plans of marrying and divorcing people for a living? Any advice on how to reconcile this contradiction is welcomed.

 

[itsallthesame]

My thoughts are (I'm a man), I would never marry someone who isn't planning to work full time and luck would probably be the deciding factor in who would make more more. In the event of a divorce, I would never want to receive alimony nor would I ever want to pay it. Honestly, I think the very idea is insulting to women and sexist. Therefore, I would want a prenup that stipulated equal split of property gained during the relationship, with no additional payments in either direction. The only exception would be a generous contribution to the winner of the custody battle, should one exist, to compensate for child care resources.

That said, I also think that marriage is silly, out dated, and should be illegal until all people in our country are free to marry whomever they please.

 

[copingmethods]

Either way if the worst happens and we end up divorcing, she will have kept me sane for the years we were together and she should be compensated for that.

If it ended in divorce, she probably wasn't keeping you sane.

 

[pianola]

Interesting wikipedia entry, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenuptial_agreement

In the United States, prenuptial agreements are recognized in all fifty states and the District of Columbia. Likewise, in most jurisdictions, five elements are required for a valid prenuptial agreement:

1. agreement must be in writing (oral prenups are always prohibited);
2. must be executed voluntarily;
3. full and/or fair disclosure at the time of execution;
4. the agreement cannot be unconscionable;
5. it must be executed by both parties (not their attorneys) "in the manner required for a deed to be recorded", known as an acknowledgment (law), before a notary public.

Prenuptial agreements in all U.S. states are not allowed to regulate issues relating to the children of the marriage, in particular, custody and access issues.[citation needed] The reason behind this is that matters involving children must be decided in the children's best interests.[citation needed] However, this is controversial: some people believe that as custody battles are the worst part of a divorce, couples should be able to settle this in advance.[3]

 

[witness23]

I will not get a prenup. I am not such a bad person. If I replace my wife for a younger wife, she should have 1/2. And women generally don't dump me, I dumb them. But I have some confessions to make. I think I am being punished in the med school applications because of some thigns I had done in the past. Here are some incidents that come to mind:

-I was 12. I just moved to usa. I was sitting in a classroom for foreigners. I bent down to pick up my pencil. And the girl sitting next to me decided to pet my hair, show affection. People started going "oooh". I said in a girlish voice "go to hell, you stupid". She replied "ruffian" and was visibly shocked. I later gave "five" to some guys, they acknowledged that I defeated a girl. I know it was that age when you hated girls, but it was really the lowest point in my life. Even worse than getting rejected by med schools right now. I don't remember what she looked like (but vaguely remember not ugly and not pretty) or her name. And she definitely did not deserve anything but affection. Maybe I could find one of the guys who witnessed this and ask him if he remembers her. I remember there was a guy named "beaver" that gave me 5, and I could find him on facebook using some mutual friend list.
-I was 14. Was interested in some girl as a fetish. The only thing that attracted me was that she had long blonde hair. I once decided to follow her after school. My classes ended a period after hers, but I waited outside. Then I saw her and followed her and stopped her. I said "hi" -"hi" "do you want me?" -"hahaha". so i said "ok sorry I gotta run back to class". I came to class 20minutes late. I told everyone about this. Called her a bitch. But felt bad regarding that girl. She later had a car accident and she had to walk with a cane. She also lost a lot of weight so I wondered if she had aids. So we again shared a class once when I was a senior. I was just minding my business and she told some other girl "this guy is such a jerk. he used to tell me he loves me and now that I have a car accident he pretends not to know me", so I butted in "Do I know you?"

I've had about a dozen such antisocial incidents. I am deeply sorry about all of them.

hahahahaaa

amazing

 

[tiedyeddog]

Therefore, I would want a prenup that stipulated equal split of property gained during the relationship, with no additional payments in either direction.

Prenups only really handle assets owned BEFORE a marriage. They are not used to decide alimony and stuff like that, but I guess it could be done. Also, kids and child support aren't covered by prenups. All monies made during the marriage are not subject to a prenup, either.

Think of it like this: You inherit a large sum of money from your parents and you invest it. Five years later you meet a person and want to get married. Now, if you married and then got divorced why does it make sense for your ex-spouse to get any part of that inheritance? You weren't married when you invested it. It is not their inheritance and you weren't a union when it came to you..

I would just include a claus about voiding the prenup after X years.

 

[scg]

Ya, I can't figure out if that post is serious or if it's just ingeniously random.

 

[chessknt]

Well, if both parties agree on the pre-nup, then I don't see how the mutual respect or trust is lost.

It basically says that you not only anticipate failure but that you also anticipate a vicious fallout. That (for me at least) communicates a fundamental lack of trust and that it is possible that you could come to hate the person you are with.

People have to work at relationships. Sometimes it is hard, sometimes you might want to give up, but when you make a commitment to someone that you genuinely mean, you fulfill that commitment. When you give yourself an out, it makes it much less likely that you will follow that commitment through.

Does anyone have divorce stats on people with prenups vs people without them?

 

[tiedyeddog]

It basically says that you not only anticipate failure but that you also anticipate a vicious fallout. That (for me at least) communicates a fundamental lack of trust and that it is possible that you could come to hate the person you are with.

People have to work at relationships. Sometimes it is hard, sometimes you might want to give up, but when you make a commitment to someone that you genuinely mean, you fulfill that commitment. When you give yourself an out, it makes it much less likely that you will follow that commitment through.

Does anyone have divorce stats on people with prenups vs people without them?

I think you're preaching to the choir here. Do you think many people get married (without prenups) thinking they will get divorced? I bet virtually zero percent of people go into marriage thinking that. Yet, we have a super high divorce rate. The point is that sometimes divorce occurs no matter how hard one person works.

 

[virusgirl]

I suppose I would be willing to entertain the idea of a prenup, but I'm not sure if I'd ultimately go along with it. To me, the issue isn't so much that suggesting a prenup = already planning on a divorce, but rather suggesting a prenup = doubts about the spouse's behavior should a divorce arise.

I consider myself to be a rational and fair-minded person, and if I were to get divorced, I don't think it would even occur to me to try to act in a way that was unfair to or exploitative of my ex-husband. If my fiance wanted a prenup, I guess I'd question his assessment of my character -- does he really think that I would ever, under any circumstances, become one of those awful gold-digging b*tches you see on tv? It wouldn't be a deal-breaker, necessarily, but it would certainly make me nervous.

I know that bitter feelings can change the way people act toward each other, and I'm sure I'm being a little naive, but I guess I feel like a prenup pre-supposes that your spouse is going to play nasty should a divorce occur. And if you have those suspicions, you probably shouldn't be getting married to begin with.

 

[funkydrmonkey]

I will let my future wife decide whether she wants to work or not, so in the case that she doesn't it would be pointless to get a prenup... in the case that she does, my religion mandates that any money made by the wife is solely hers, and her husband cannot utilize that money without asking, so I would not be entitled to that money anyway, in which case, getting a prenup will be pointless...
Plus, it is not like I have oodles of money right now, and will have debt until I pay it off, hopefully by the end of residency, so therefore count me in the no prenup category...

 

[witness23]

14 Feb 2008
Americans Split on Prenuptial Agreements, According to New Thomson West Poll

Eighty percent of Americans willing to at least consider prenups

EAGAN, Minn. Would you sign a prenuptial agreement before you say, "I do"? A new survey by Thomson West, a leading legal information solutions provider, finds that Americans are evenly split on the issue, but are open to at least considering a prenup.

Forty-one percent of Americans say they might sign a prenuptial or postnuptial agreement if their spouse or partner asked them to. An equal percentage – 41 percent – said they likely would not sign an agreement. Eighteen percent said they weren't sure what they would do in such a situation.

Men are more willing than women to sign a prenuptial or postnuptial agreement – 44 percent of men said they would definitely or probably sign, while only 38 percent of women said they would.

But with half of all marriages ending in divorce, a majority of Americans appear to be willing to at least consider the idea of a prenuptial or postnuptial agreement. Only 20 percent of those surveyed said they would "definitely not" sign a prenup or postnup.

While many people associated these agreements with the rich and famous, legal experts say there are many situations where such an agreement may be prudent, including situations involving family-owned businesses, and marriages where one or both spouses have children from previous marriages.

The Thomson West survey found that when asked if they would sign a prenuptial or postnuptial agreement, American adults said:

- Yes, definitely (14%)
- Yes, maybe (27%)
- No, probably not (21%)
- No, definitely not (20%)
- Not sure (18%)

The survey used a demographically balanced sample of 1,000 American adults nationwide, and results are accurate within plus or minus 3 percent.

 

[chiz2kul]

I suppose I would be willing to entertain the idea of a prenup, but I'm not sure if I'd ultimately go along with it. To me, the issue isn't so much that suggesting a prenup = already planning on a divorce, but rather suggesting a prenup = doubts about the spouse's behavior should a divorce arise.

I consider myself to be a rational and fair-minded person, and if I were to get divorced, I don't think it would even occur to me to try to act in a way that was unfair to or exploitative of my ex-husband. If my fiance wanted a prenup, I guess I'd question his assessment of my character -- does he really think that I would ever, under any circumstances, become one of those awful gold-digging b*tches you see on tv? It wouldn't be a deal-breaker, necessarily, but it would certainly make me nervous.

I know that bitter feelings can change the way people act toward each other, and I'm sure I'm being a little naive, but I guess I feel like a prenup pre-supposes that your spouse is going to play nasty should a divorce occur. And if you have those suspicions, you probably shouldn't be getting married to begin with.

 

[pianola]

In retrospect I could have added a "not sure" option.

 

[Stixman28]

I tend to think if someone does not want a prenup then they themselves are insecure in the marriage. Prenups are made under the understanding that it will never need to be used.

Isn't this a bit ridiculous? They are not made never to be used. They are made precisely to be used, in that case of 'what if' that two people in love may not want to consider.

I tend to feel the opposite though as the poster above. I would think that signing a prenup would only be something I would do if I was highly insecure about the posibility of a relationship lasting.

(this comes from the mouth a child of a very nasty divorce...who themselves are children of nasty divorce.)

I guess i really like my girlfriend.

 

[scg]

Isn't this a bit ridiculous? They are not made never to be used. They are made precisely to be used, in that case of 'what if.'

I tend to feel the opposite though as the poster above. I would think that signing a prenup would only be something I would do if I was highly insecure about the posibility of a relationship lasting.

(this comes from the mouth a child of a very nasty divorce...who themselves are children of nasty divorce.)

I guess i really like my girlfriend.

"Just like everyone thinks they're a better-than-average driver, everyone thinks that there's no way their marriage will end in divorce." quote from somewhere

Maybe people that want a prenup are not insecure but just rational?

 

[Stixman28]

"Just like everyone thinks they're a better-than-average driver, everyone thinks that there's no way their marriage will end in divorce." quote from somewhere

Maybe people that want a prenup are not insecure but just rational?

Totally. In fact I literally took the word rational out of my original post.

I didn't mean to imply that folks that would get a prenup are not confident in their relationships. But only meant to describe what would push me to get one myself. (and in fact I think i worded it in first person.)

 

[scg]

Maybe the best strategy is to forgo the prenup with your primary wife and to only get prenups for your minor wives. That way you don't risk offending the partner that you care about the most and protect yourself from your highest risk wives.

 

[witness23]

apparently survey says that the US population accurately estimates divorce rate to hover around 50%. However, they believe that the chance of their marriage ending in a divorce is around 11.7% (2003). I think what that means is that 1 in 9 believe that their marriage may end in a divorce. Approximately 10 % of couples get a prenup (hmm similar numbers).

I really don't think that a prenup = planning for a bad marriage. I'm just really independent and would love to be the best physician possible, and I'm sure all of you would be too. I would have for a bad financial situation, spurred by divorce, to affect my work by adding extra stress to life. In the same way, I would welcome my wife to be ambitious and bring home the bacon. I don't think anyone plans for "love" to go wrong, but things happen. Some people just put a lot of value into their work and money, or maybe some people are in their 2nd+ marriages?

Personally, I don't even feel comfy with a shared bank account. Do you think slumdog got a pre-nup?

 

[ButImLETired]

I don't think it's a matter of security or insecurity, it's just a matter of personalities and to what extent the two people in question want to look at marriage pragmatically (a joining of resources and responsibilities as well as an awesome commitment to each other) or romantically.

I come from a very happy family, no one in my extended family is divorced, and hopefully I'll follow in their footsteps. I'm a big believer in "sucking it up" and when I say those vows, I'll mean them. I accept that I'll have to make many sacrifices to make a marriage work. If I'm not willing to make those sacrifices, I just won't get married. Ultimately, I don't really believe in divorce.

It's precisely for this reason, though, that I don't mind the idea of a prenup. For me to accept that my marriage is over would take a REALLY major mess: discovering my husband is having an affair, a total disintegration of trust, or being abjectly miserable. In that case, I'd want my divorce to be as simple and stress-free as possible, since I'd probably have struggled a lot coming to the decision to get a divorce in the first place. I'd want it all to be extremely un-messy. The beauty of a prenup is that it takes away a lot of the stress about financial matters at a time when you're really pretty stressed to begin with.

 

[scg]

I don't think it's a matter of security or insecurity, it's just a matter of personalities and to what extent the two people in question want to look at marriage pragmatically (a joining of resources and responsibilities as well as an awesome commitment to each other) or romantically.

I come from a very happy family, no one in my extended family is divorced, and hopefully I'll follow in their footsteps. I'm a big believer in "sucking it up" and when I say those vows, I'll mean them. I accept that I'll have to make many sacrifices to make a marriage work. If I'm not willing to make those sacrifices, I just won't get married. Ultimately, I don't really believe in divorce.

It's precisely for this reason, though, that I don't mind the idea of a prenup. For me to accept that my marriage is over would take a REALLY major mess: discovering my husband is having an affair, a total disintegration of trust, or being abjectly miserable. In that case, I'd want my divorce to be as simple and stress-free as possible, since I'd probably have struggled a lot coming to the decision to get a divorce in the first place. I'd want it all to be extremely un-messy. The beauty of a prenup is that it takes away a lot of the stress about financial matters at a time when you're really pretty stressed to begin with.

I agree. I think some of the people in this thread are being closed-minded about this subject and aren't looking at the potential benefits of prenups.

Some dude on the internet thinks that prenups can strengthen marriages rather than harm because it forces both parties to discuss expectations of marriage - kind of like marriage counseling prior to marriage.

"Mahar envisions a prenuptial checklist for couples to agree on before marrying. It could, she thinks, tap the best of the heady, loving emotions that come with courtship, forcing couples to negotiate some nuts and bolts of the marriage while they're in the optimistic blush of love, while compensating for the downside of such rose-colored glasses. And although a prenuptial checklist might uncover irreconcilable differences, that may not be a bad thing."

She supports mandatory prenup agreements because then there'd be no stigma/anxiety attached to them.

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/10.16/01-prenup.html

 

[dw2158]

I don't think it's a matter of security or insecurity, it's just a matter of personalities and to what extent the two people in question want to look at marriage pragmatically (a joining of resources and responsibilities as well as an awesome commitment to each other) or romantically.

I come from a very happy family, no one in my extended family is divorced, and hopefully I'll follow in their footsteps. I'm a big believer in "sucking it up" and when I say those vows, I'll mean them. I accept that I'll have to make many sacrifices to make a marriage work. If I'm not willing to make those sacrifices, I just won't get married. Ultimately, I don't really believe in divorce.

It's precisely for this reason, though, that I don't mind the idea of a prenup. For me to accept that my marriage is over would take a REALLY major mess: discovering my husband is having an affair, a total disintegration of trust, or being abjectly miserable. In that case, I'd want my divorce to be as simple and stress-free as possible, since I'd probably have struggled a lot coming to the decision to get a divorce in the first place. I'd want it all to be extremely un-messy. The beauty of a prenup is that it takes away a lot of the stress about financial matters at a time when you're really pretty stressed to begin with.

beautifully put. i'd marry you, LET

 

[tiedyeddog]

It's precisely for this reason, though, that I don't mind the idea of a prenup. For me to accept that my marriage is over would take a REALLY major mess: discovering my husband is having an affair, a total disintegration of trust, or being abjectly miserable. In that case, I'd want my divorce to be as simple and stress-free as possible, since I'd probably have struggled a lot coming to the decision to get a divorce in the first place. I'd want it all to be extremely un-messy. The beauty of a prenup is that it takes away a lot of the stress about financial matters at a time when you're really pretty stressed to begin with.