Pre-nup, Medical School, and Expectations

[tiedyeddog]

Part of the reason people get married is for security--knowing that they will be taken care of if the other person dies, screws up, whatever. Requiring an alimony waiver may not work out for you. One person doesn't get to dictate what the prenup will be. I mean do you really think someone isn't gonna question your relationship when you are saying: I will get married, but only on the condition that you get absolutely nothing if we ever break up?

My wife will likely live a much different life due to her marriage to me. She will probably put her career on hold to raise our children. She will support me and help me to be able to work at a high level, advance in my career, etc. She may choose a less lucrative career due to our financial security. In the event of divorce, it is only right that she gets taken care of until she gets remarried.

I love this line of thinking, CP. I will probably get married before I start residency and if I , say, get an inheritance before my marriage I will get a prenup in order to make sure it is clear that is mine after a divorce. I would feel the same way about an inheritence from her parents gifted to her..

However, I would NOT be comfortable with declaring alimony and other crap like that in a prenup. If she stays with me while I am an almost non-exsistant husband throughout my residency and there after I think she is more than entitled to alimony based on my current wages and whatever I earn after residency. I agree with CPants that the sacrifices that my spouse would have to make would more than likely be a huge disadvantage to her if we divorced. It would only be far to make sure she would be taken care of.

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[ngkats]

I will not get a prenup. I am not such a bad person. If I replace my wife for a younger wife, she should have 1/2. And women generally don't dump me, I dumb them. But I have some confessions to make. I think I am being punished in the med school applications because of some thigns I had done in the past. Here are some incidents that come to mind:

-I was 12. I just moved to usa. I was sitting in a classroom for foreigners. I bent down to pick up my pencil. And the girl sitting next to me decided to pet my hair, show affection. People started going "oooh". I said in a girlish voice "go to hell, you stupid". She replied "ruffian" and was visibly shocked. I later gave "five" to some guys, they acknowledged that I defeated a girl. I know it was that age when you hated girls, but it was really the lowest point in my life. Even worse than getting rejected by med schools right now. I don't remember what she looked like (but vaguely remember not ugly and not pretty) or her name. And she definitely did not deserve anything but affection. Maybe I could find one of the guys who witnessed this and ask him if he remembers her. I remember there was a guy named "beaver" that gave me 5, and I could find him on facebook using some mutual friend list.
-I was 14. Was interested in some girl as a fetish. The only thing that attracted me was that she had long blonde hair. I once decided to follow her after school. My classes ended a period after hers, but I waited outside. Then I saw her and followed her and stopped her. I said "hi" -"hi" "do you want me?" -"hahaha". so i said "ok sorry I gotta run back to class". I came to class 20minutes late. I told everyone about this. Called her a bitch. But felt bad regarding that girl. She later had a car accident and she had to walk with a cane. She also lost a lot of weight so I wondered if she had aids. So we again shared a class once when I was a senior. I was just minding my business and she told some other girl "this guy is such a jerk. he used to tell me he loves me and now that I have a car accident he pretends not to know me", so I butted in "Do I know you?"

I've had about a dozen such antisocial incidents. I am deeply sorry about all of them.

Best post of the thread.

 

[pianola]

No offense pianola, but this has gotta have the worst distribution ever

Haha, I know. It makes no sense.

I guess we can conclude that men are more likely to have an opinion about a pre-nup than women, maybe? Or that men are better represented among the population that has determined they will absolutely get a pre-nup? Haha, I don't know. I could do some stats tests to see if there are statistically significant differences between the groups.

Best post of the thread.

No disagreements on that .

 

[tiedyeddog]

Best post of the thread.

I didn't read past "I have some confessions to make".....

 

[pianola]

I didn't read past "I have some confessions to make".....

Haha, you missed a dilly of a post.

I think it's abstract art. That's how I choose to interpret it.

I think there's some underlying meaning. In a literary way.

 

[Macaiah1005]

I think I have a different viewpoint because I am in a "gay marriage." My wife and I got married in Canada a year and a half ago and she came into the marriage with a sizeable inheritence. I would have been devastated if she would have insisted on some sort of Canadian pre nup .

That would have sent a message of mistrust and I probably would have backed out of the vows at the last minute. IMO, all money and assets are communal - whether they were there before or during the marriage. If I needed every cent of that money for something important my wife would hand it over in a second. Isn't that how it should be? Maybe I'm just old school...

Of course, I also understand that some of you will not be married until you are established physicians and it is probably terrifying to think about working so hard for so long just to have it taken away by some gold digger(that goes for men and women).

 

[cbrons]

There's been this long discussion about pre-nups in the Who To Marry thread, so I became a bit curious about how many people would consider one and/or have considered one.

Option 1: I will absolutely get a pre-nup. (I'm a man)

Option 2: I would consider a pre-nup. (I'm a man)

Option 3: I would consider a pre-nup, but it is a distasteful option. (I'm a man)

Option 4: I will not consider a pre-nup. (I'm a man)

Option 5: I will absolutely get a pre-nup. (I'm a woman)

Option 6: I would consider a pre-nup. (I'm a woman)

Option 7: I would consider a pre-nup, but it is a distasteful option. (I'm a woman)

Option 8: I will not consider a pre-nup. (I'm a woman)

If you don't get a pre-nup, you deserve whatever you get when the dust settles.

 

[cbrons]

, all money and assets are communal - whether they were there before or during the marriage. If I needed every cent of that money for something important my wife would hand it over in a second. Isn't that how it should be? Maybe I'm just old school...

haha... of course, when divorce time comes, usually the participants aren't thinking about "what is best for the other person" as far as assets are concerned. Ask any divorce lawyer how brutal it can really get.

 

[deleted116380]

I won't have many assets to protect in a marriage as I enter (I'll probably get married during or before residency). However, any inheritance I have would probably have a bunch of stipulations in the will of the person I'm inheriting from. I'm also pretty sure debt stays with the spouse that took on the debt and entered the marriage (i.e. student loans) so you don't have to worry about splitting debt upon divorce.

Either way, I suggest finding someone that doesn't blow money on stupid crap or doesn't understand the value of a dollar. Money (or lack thereof) is one of the big reasons for divorce as I understand. I'll try to find someone like myself. If my wife wants a Mercedes, there better be a good reason other than the logo of the car.

Also, you can write a lot of things in a prenup like child custody.

 

[Tiare208]

To respond to someone earlier (can't remember who?), Brangelina will eventually have a common law marriage because of living together and having children, and this means that they are effectively married in the eyes of the law without a prenup. So going it there way means you are deciding NOT to do a prenup and that you have no protection. Not that you get a nice easy division of property.

 

[dw2158]

Couldn't you just be a Ben Lee fan?

i mean, i am.

p.s. am i the only one who looked at this thread and IMMEDIATELY thought, "If you ain't no punk holla' we want pre-nup WE WANT PRE-NUP!"?

 

[pianola]

I think I have a different viewpoint because I am in a "gay marriage." My wife and I got married in Canada a year and a half ago and she came into the marriage with a sizeable inheritence. I would have been devastated if she would have insisted on some sort of Canadian pre nup .

That would have sent a message of mistrust and I probably would have backed out of the vows at the last minute. IMO, all money and assets are communal - whether they were there before or during the marriage. If I needed every cent of that money for something important my wife would hand it over in a second. Isn't that how it should be? Maybe I'm just old school...

Of course, I also understand that some of you will not be married until you are established physicians and it is probably terrifying to think about working so hard for so long just to have it taken away by some gold digger(that goes for men and women).

I like this post. I think it gets at my idea of marriage. I guess theoretically your pre-nup could stipulate exactly that you both felt was communal, though, even if that included "everything"? It could stipulate what the division would be afterwards? I don't know. The idea of a pre-nup is kind of foreign to me.

I think the concept of a pre-nup is more associated with "asset protection" instead of "fair and equitable division of what constitutes communal earnings." I think people in these threads are interpreting it both ways.

 

[tdittyx2x3]

Thing is that pple in this society put absolutely zero effort into relationships, and subsequently marriage. Pple go from boyfriend to boyfriend (and vice versa), and feel that marriage is pretty similar.
Wrong. (in my opinion)
If you feel pre-nups are a necessary evil for you, then go for it. If you feel that having a pre-nup is just simply preparing for the worst, then go for it.
Personally, I wldnt do it. (and no, i'm not being close-minded about it)
Of course pple change after marriage and all, but whatever happened to putting in effort to making marriage work? And yes, to some pple, having a pre-nup will make considering divorce a whole lotta easier, cos I mean thats a benefit when you want out.
I know myself, and I know that i'm gonna give my 100% in my marriage. Call me niave or whatnot, thats your deal. Plus, I know the kind of person that i'm gonna get married to. Someone thats willing to work in the relationship.
Pre-nups (in many cases), are just preparations to peace out when the going gets tough. Thats why there are soo many divorces today. No one wants to take the tough road.

"Everyone else get's divorced because they don't want to put in the work, so I'm going to put in 100% and be fine and dandy forever."

You already said it but I will reiterate. Incredibly naive.

You could be happy for decades with a partner and then have it all fall apart on you. It won't be your fault, your partners, or your kids, necessarily anyway, but it does happen and could happen to you regardless of how much you put into it. My parents are a perfect example of a great 30 year relationship falling apart. They put all the effort in the world into their marriage. How much effort are you going to put in chiz? Btw, your avatar is annoying.

 

[tdittyx2x3]

Apologies if ^^^ came off as a dramatic overshare. I am not weaping alone in a dark room somewhere. And I didn't post it looking for sympathy or attention either. Its just that I've witnessed a very solid, stable marriage go down the tubes. Hence, I believe this can happen to anyone.

Back to pre-nups. My take: If you are for pre-nups, then you shouldn't marry. Because if you are for pre-nups than you are acknowledging the fact that you may one day separate, and marriage, by definition, is acknowledging that you will NEVER separate. The definition of marriage is the crazy part people, not the definition of the pre-nup.

 

[deleted244469]

I voted for the pre-nup. I worry about myself getting "played" per say. I know it would be hard to pull off for the woman that Im dating, but if they knew the money I made, I wouldn't want to be "loved" for my money and just have my spouse decide to leave because she knows she can get half of what I earn. Especially when I have worked my butt off to get where I am. Maybe that sounds extrememly skeptical or selfish, but thats what I worry about. I see too many celeb relationships (even though they are celebs) end this way and its VERY discouraging.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but thats just my $.02

Chris

 

[SDN2013]

Your SO might not be making that much, which is probably why you want the pre-nup just in case, but he may not be truly happy if asked to sign a prenup (even if he appears to be okay with it and go through with it). He's probably going to be working lower-paying jobs to support you and probably do alot of housework etc. And then once you get done with residency, the pre-nup allows you to just dump and find someone else. Sure, he probably knows you won't do this, and you almost definitely won't, BUT he may keep it as a possiblity at the back of his mind. If you were already a practicing physician he probably wouldn't mind, but you are like 8-10 years away from practicing, and while he's working he's probably going to help you pay off med school debt.

Then again, I don't know him.

 

[Carlin]

Prenups don't have to be what one might traditionally think of (a wealthy person trying to keep their money from a less wealthy spouse). My father (a lawyer) always has told me that they can (and should be) used for the protection of both partners. They can be written to say that if the marriage breaks up, than each person leaves the relationship with what they entered it with, and everything gained during the relationship is split 50/50. Also, in my parent's case, the entire thing was nullified after 10 years and/or after their first child, whichever came first (unneccessary... 25 years and 5 children later, they're still married )

If your future spouse asked you to sign such a prenup, would you be offended? I would definitely consider having something like that drawn up, because it would make any potential breakup easier on both parties.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I like this post. I think it gets at my idea of marriage. I guess theoretically your pre-nup could stipulate exactly that you both felt was communal, though, even if that included "everything"? It could stipulate what the division would be afterwards? I don't know. The idea of a pre-nup is kind of foreign to me.

I think the concept of a pre-nup is more associated with "asset protection" instead of "fair and equitable division of what constitutes communal earnings." I think people in these threads are interpreting it both ways.

I personally don't think things like family heirlooms are "communal"... Just because you're married, you don't share everything, but that is my opinion. You're entitled to yours.

 

[pianola]

I personally don't think things like family heirlooms are "communal"... Just because you're married, you don't share everything, but that is my opinion. You're entitled to yours.

I mean, yeah, that makes sense. I like Carlin's and LET's way of seeing things, I think. Maybe I will find some way of eventually addressing the issue without using the word "prenup". I think "prenup" is a loaded term. I might use the word "mutual agreement" or something.

I really appreciate everyone's perspective, actually. You all have really unique ideas. Some very good justifications both for and against prenups.

 

[motherof4]

Pre, post or during agreement; conflict resolution? Getting married? Making a major life decision like changing careers? Having a baby? Getting a new dog? Perhaps my husband and I should have entered into a legal contract which predetermined the outcome in the unfortunate event we decide to go our separate ways after he finishes his residency?

Perhaps all the energy devoted to the prenuptual agreement could be refocused on having a "Relationship Agreement" or a "Conflict Resolution Agreement". Why get married in the first place? Sharing the relationship is far more important than sharing a checkbook. Then if things don't work out with your relationship you can simply go your separate ways. We are not in a traditional society anymore.

Mrs Panda Bear