Pre-PA - now second guessing!

[pa2dopls]

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I am currently applying to PA school. I've had 2 interviews, have a 3rd coming up and am on a waitlist for a 4th interview.
I never, ever even thought about becoming a doctor until I started working as a medical scribe about 6 months ago in the ED. I work with MDs and DOs and some of them tell me it's smart to go to PA school and others tell me they would still do MD/DO if they had to do it over again.
I look at what the NPs do in the ED and it doesn't excite me (our ED doesn't hire PAs, but I would imagine it would be similar).

Since PA school doesn't require the MCAT, I obviously haven't taken that. I also haven't taken ochem 2, ochem lab, or physics 1 and 2.
I have NO idea how I would ever go back to school since I have absolutely no money and can't take out any more loans.

Plus, my overall GPA is only 3.49. My last 60-80 credits are 3.88 (I got my AA degree in high school and didn't ever think that my grad school would count those grades). The centralized application system for PA school calculated my science GPA as 3.48 I believe. My bachelor's degree GPA is 3.57.

I have my EMT-B. I have volunteer experience working at a nonprofit dental clinic, as a volunteer vision screener, at a long term care facility, at an ED, as part of a student group called Students Today, Leaders Forever. I've worked as an auditory brainstem technician, a medical scribe. I studied abroad in Spain and am proficient in Spanish.

Let's say I were to somehow take these classes (maybe at a community college? Is that okay to do?) and somehow manage to take the MCAT. Would I have a hard time getting in?

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Good ECs. Finish rest of your ECs with As and keep GPAs high.
Annihilate the MCAT. You'll get in. You could possibly even apply MD depending on the MCAT.

 

[pa2dopls]

Wow, thanks for the support! Appreciate it!

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Yea your grades are good enough for DO for sure. Get a 26+ on the MCAT and you are good to go. If you have all of the required classes (which should be similar for PA). You could probably apply to DO next cycle so long as you have your MCAT score back.

PM me if you want some more help, I have plenty of free time.

 

[pa2dopls]

Yea your grades are good enough for DO for sure. Get a 26+ on the MCAT and you are good to go. If you have all of the required classes (which should be similar for PA). You could probably apply to DO next cycle so long as you have your MCAT score back.

PM me if you want some more help, I have plenty of free time.

Thank you. Like I said, I don't have ochem 2, ochem lab, or physics 1 or 2. That puts me at a year of taking required courses. Do DO schools allow you to apply with pre-reqs in progress? I haven't really even started looking at the MCAT. I would have to take that after I take physics and ochem 2. So I'm looking at like 2+ years out...that's quite daunting.

 

[j4pac]

Thank you. Like I said, I don't have ochem 2, ochem lab, or physics 1 or 2. That puts me at a year of taking required courses. Do DO schools allow you to apply with pre-reqs in progress? I haven't really even started looking at the MCAT. I would have to take that after I take physics and ochem 2. So I'm looking at like 2+ years out...that's quite daunting.

I had a guy in my class that was 60 years old. Think about that one for a second. If you are compelled to do medicine...you will regret not making the effort.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Thank you. Like I said, I don't have ochem 2, ochem lab, or physics 1 or 2. That puts me at a year of taking required courses. Do DO schools allow you to apply with pre-reqs in progress? I haven't really even started looking at the MCAT. I would have to take that after I take physics and ochem 2. So I'm looking at like 2+ years out...that's quite daunting.

Sorry I must have skimmed over that part.

Yea hold off then. I would take your time and make sure you do well in those courses before taking the MCAT. I ended up taking the MCAT about a month before I finished physics II and it ended up being ok. But I would make sure to have the majority of the stuff down, the test is already hard enough as is without handicapping yourself heh. I think you could apply in the summer of 2016, thats totally feasible. Just remember its a marathon, not a sprint. I know it seems daunting, but you can do it. Not everyone has the straight shot path at it, for some people it takes more time or an entirely different path to get there.

Just stay the course, get those courses under your belt, take the MCAT spring of 2016 and apply June of 2016. In the meantime just keep working on building your application up. You are doing good so far.

***Side note, now that I am looking closer at your writing. Its totally ok for you to take your classes at a CC. You will get people on here that tell you its bad or whatever. But if you are maxed out on money and you just need those couple courses, then just do the CC. Just make sure your grades are fine and it wont come up at all. If anyone doubts your education then just kill the MCAT and it will seal the deal.

 

[pa2dopls]

Sorry I must have skimmed over that part.

Yea hold off then. I would take your time and make sure you do well in those courses before taking the MCAT. I ended up taking the MCAT about a month before I finished physics II and it ended up being ok. But I would make sure to have the majority of the stuff down, the test is already hard enough as is without handicapping yourself heh. I think you could apply in the summer of 2016, thats totally feasible. Just remember its a marathon, not a sprint. I know it seems daunting, but you can do it. Not everyone has the straight shot path at it, for some people it takes more time or an entirely different path to get there.

Just stay the course, get those courses under your belt, take the MCAT spring of 2016 and apply June of 2016. In the meantime just keep working on building your application up. You are doing good so far.

***Side note, now that I am looking closer at your writing. Its totally ok for you to take your classes at a CC. You will get people on here that tell you its bad or whatever. But if you are maxed out on money and you just need those couple courses, then just do the CC. Just make sure your grades are fine and it wont come up at all. If anyone doubts your education then just kill the MCAT and it will seal the deal.

Thanks so much for the advice. I seriously appreciate it. I just really have to sit down and figure out if I'd be happy as a PA or always want something more. Money is a serious issue right now, so I would have to go the CC route. I could always become a PA and do that PA-DO bridge program in the future if I feel compelled (although that is still a 3 year program apparently).

I'm 23. In the long run, yes I'm young. Right now, I feel old compared to the 20 year olds who get into med school right away. A doctor I was working with the other day reminded me that I am young enough to do whatever I would be happy with.

 

[pa2dopls]

I had a guy in my class that was 60 years old. Think about that one for a second. If you are compelled to do medicine...you will regret not making the effort.

I am compelled to do medicine, which is why I am taking the PA route currently. However, the question for me is - am I compelled to go further? I am certainly interested in medicine. I love learning new things every day in the ED.
Something that I really like about the PA field is having the ability to change specialities quite easily. What if I were to choose the wrong field out of DO school? It'd be hard to change, although I know those who have done it.
Some things that scare me about the PA field are: the fact that there is a ceiling. I am always going to have to explain my career to the public. There will always be people who won't respect me (although this can be true of any job).

 

[MetricSystem]

Go to a PA school.
How much you practice as a PA depends on where you are and which hospital/office you work for.
In my old hospital ED, NPs and PAs did everything that Docs did. Just needed their charts signed at the end.
The PA that I worked with came to my old hospital because it allowed her to practice her skills more compared to her previous hospital, where she did minimal fast-track medical work.
Being a PA isn't going to limit your practice if you choose the right places. Also, as a PA, you can "change" "specialties" later. More physical specialties when you are energetic and less physical in your later years.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Seriously, as you said... you are still so young. I think the average age for MD students starting is like 25, and is like 26 for DO. Heck I will be 25 when I start - with 1 super senior year and 2 gap years under my belt. Retrospectively it has worked out perfectly for me, I wouldnt have change a thing (even though I obviously wanted to during all of those 3 years haha). You absolutely are young enough to go either path. Its definitely just something that you have to soul search for. Not to get to specific (but hopefully offer something to help) it was my last semester in my senior year in college when I decided on medicine. I was supposed to graduate, I was ready to graduate, but then I discovered medicine. Like you, I still had 4 courses that I had to take if I was to legit commit to medicine, that meant another year in school.

Even when that decision was made, I still had no idea of the PA vs MD/DO route. It took a lot of shadowing and some serious soul searching to figure out what I wanted. Even though I know I will be in massive debt from med school, and even though it is longer and harder than PA school. I know without a shadow of a doubt that I am in the right place and am called to be a physician. I gained that awareness only through many hours of conversations with physicians and PAs (while shadowing and working) in a multitude of specialties and in different healthcare settings (community hospital vs private practice vs academic). So that is probably something to spend this spring semester on, really narrow down what you want. Look at 30 years of working as ask yourself what you see yourself doing long term. For some people the answer is undoubtedly PA, for others it is physician. There is no right or wrong answer, only what you are called to do.

 

[pa2dopls]

Go to a PA school.
How much you practice as a PA depends on where you are and which hospital/office you work for.
In my old hospital ED, NPs and PAs did everything that Docs did. Just needed their charts signed at the end.
The PA that I worked with came to my old hospital because it allowed her to practice her skills more compared to her previous hospital, where she did minimal fast-track medical work.
Being a PA isn't going to limit your practice if you choose the right places. Also, as a PA, you can "change" "specialties" later. More physical specialties when you are energetic and less physical in your later years.

I appreciate your view point. I am really happy to hear that NPs and PAs had such autonomy where you worked. Was this a rural location? I've heard that rural PAs do almost everything docs do. You are definitely right that location is important. I do like the fact that I would be able to change specialities.

 

[MetricSystem]

I appreciate your view point. I am really happy to hear that NPs and PAs had such autonomy where you worked. Was this a rural location? I've heard that rural PAs do almost everything docs do. You are definitely right that location is important. I do like the fact that I would be able to change specialities.

Not rural.
The busiest (sometimes 2nd) ED in my state.

 

[pa2dopls]

Seriously, as you said... you are still so young. I think the average age for MD students starting is like 25, and is like 26 for DO. Heck I will be 25 when I start - with 1 super senior year and 2 gap years under my belt. Retrospectively it has worked out perfectly for me, I wouldnt have change a thing (even though I obviously wanted to during all of those 3 years haha). You absolutely are young enough to go either path. Its definitely just something that you have to soul search for. Not to get to specific (but hopefully offer something to help) it was my last semester in my senior year in college when I decided on medicine. I was supposed to graduate, I was ready to graduate, but then I discovered medicine. Like you, I still had 4 courses that I had to take if I was to legit commit to medicine, that meant another year in school.

Even when that decision was made, I still had no idea of the PA vs MD/DO route. It took a lot of shadowing and some serious soul searching to figure out what I wanted. Even though I know I will be in massive debt from med school, and even though it is longer and harder than PA school. I know without a shadow of a doubt that I am in the right place and am called to be a physician. I gained that awareness only through many hours of conversations with physicians and PAs (while shadowing and working) in a multitude of specialties and in different healthcare settings (community hospital vs private practice vs academic). So that is probably something to spend this spring semester on, really narrow down what you want. Look at 30 years of working as ask yourself what you see yourself doing long term. For some people the answer is undoubtedly PA, for others it is physician. There is no right or wrong answer, only what you are called to do.

You have been so, so helpful. You are going to be a WONDERFUL physician. I am so glad to hear that you have a similar background to me. I have been out of school for one year and work full time as a scribe. I will sit down with some of the docs and shadow more PAs before I make a life decision!! It's such a critical one!

 

[j4pac]

I am compelled to do medicine, which is why I am taking the PA route currently. However, the question for me is - am I compelled to go further? I am certainly interested in medicine. I love learning new things every day in the ED.
Something that I really like about the PA field is having the ability to change specialities quite easily. What if I were to choose the wrong field out of DO school? It'd be hard to change, although I know those who have done it.
Some things that scare me about the PA field are: the fact that there is a ceiling. I am always going to have to explain my career to the public. There will always be people who won't respect me (although this can be true of any job).

It sounds like you would be very content with PA...so that is the direction you should go.

I have to explain what a DO is on a routine basis. Don't let pride or fear of lack of respect get in the way of your decision making. Who cares what people think? Do what you love...and do something that you feel you can support yourself and maybe a family down the road. That's all that matters.

 

[ananasmed]

I think most of the time, people who feel doubtful about pursuing the midlevel path (PA or NP) should probably just bite the bullet and go for medical school. Barring extreme circumstances.... if you're already feeling worried about the "what if?", how do you think you'll feel about it in 5 years? 10? 30? I would take the extra time now - even if it's 2 or 3 years - to just do the thing you *really* want. There is absolutely nothing wrong with PA school, but either sort out your feelings and make sure you feel confident in your choice (which should have absolutely nothing to do with what other people think about your career path), or just drop it and make plans for how to get into medical school.

I speak from experience - I was admitted to multiple direct entry nursing to DNP programs before I changed my mind, turned down those programs, and took my butt back to community college to enroll in physics and start MCAT prep.

P.S. I will have had three gap years between college graduation and matriculating into DO school. It's amazing that there are people that can go straight from undergrad to med school, but I'm personally very glad that I had the experiences I did during my time "off" - and it makes me feel that much more certain of my choice.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I am compelled to do medicine, which is why I am taking the PA route currently. However, the question for me is - am I compelled to go further? I am certainly interested in medicine. I love learning new things every day in the ED.
Something that I really like about the PA field is having the ability to change specialities quite easily. What if I were to choose the wrong field out of DO school? It'd be hard to change, although I know those who have done it.
Some things that scare me about the PA field are: the fact that there is a ceiling. I am always going to have to explain my career to the public. There will always be people who won't respect me (although this can be true of any job).

A love of learning will undoubtedly be useful for either field.

One thing to definitely recognize is that the ED is a very specific beast. My first time ever shadowing was a PA in our community hospital. They did everything that the docs did, and some of the PAs were better than the physicians at certain things.
Then I was introduced to academic medicine and its completely different. Docs absolutely run the show and I would never want to be a PA in one of those places... Their range of practice is dramatically limited.

Then think about certain medical specialties or surgical fields - that is when you find a massive difference between PAs and physicians - both in practice and knowledge base.

Then as you alluded to, there is a very real ceiling you will hit as a PA. In the ED both PAs and docs hit just about the same ceiling - they do the same thing. But what if you end up in FM or something instead? You cannot run a business or hospital as a PA, you can run clinics or entire hospitals as a physician. Would you want to move towards business or larger scale healthcare as you are older? Maybe? Maybe not? But that is one reason I picked physician, I know there is a piece in me that would like to own my own clinic or be a part of running a hospital one day, thus that helped me choose physician. I didnt want to be locked down. Heck maybe I will end up not even practicing actual medicine and will just want to do the business side of things later on - tougher to do as a PA due to licensing stuff.

Or maybe you will want to end up doing research? Tough to do as a PA, not so tough as a physician. You just never know where you will feel called to.

Also the changing specialties thing is more of a "gimmick" that PAs and physicians tell people. The reality is that yes, while you may have your PA license and can legally practice in any specialty (because you will be under the "supervision" of a physician), you will be hired based upon your experience. A hospital isnt going to hire you as a neurosurgical PA if you spent the last 20 years working in a small pediatric clinic, they are going to grab the guy/gal who has worked in neuro their whole life. Conversely, with a doctorate you can always get a fellowship, or you can always get an entirely different specialty. Sure its hard and you have to do a residency again, but its possible. I personally know an ED physician who in his 40s switched over to general surgery and he was very happy with his decision.

So just some food for thought. Again, the key is to look long term at yourself, not at what other people tell you is "better" or "easier" or whatever.