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Timbo

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Hi jacksmith228833!
I see that you are concerned about the job market. I have recently attended a recent virtual pharmacy school fair and got to speak with many school administrator, professors, and students. While it is true that retail is going through a rough patch, they had this to say about endless other opportunities with pharmacy!:
  • The Pharmacy Workforce is a study. It is not an exact prediction of the future.
  • Pharmacy is an evolving profession. New domains are opening up. There is still a very bright future for the profession in the hospital, community and industrial settings.
  • Pharmacy for me which is a non profit agency has information about different Career paths visit Pharmacy Careers | Pharmacy for me
  • There is no accurate prediction of the future. So many variables do change. As an example, in California now, the Governor just granted pharmacists the authority to order and administer Covid-19 tests: Pharmacists Granted Authority to Order, Administer COVID-19 Tests in California
  • last year, around 80% of our graduates had a job offer before the graduation. - LECOM School of Pharmacy
  • I have not heard of any students from last year's graduating class struggling to find positions - WesternU
  • Many of our graduates go on to work in hospital and community pharmacies, as well as opened their own pharmacies - WesternU
These are all great points!
 
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APN-59 rph

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Hi jacksmith228833!
I see that you are concerned about the job market. I have recently attended a recent virtual pharmacy school fair and got to speak with many school administrator, professors, and students. While it is true that retail is going through a rough patch, they had this to say about endless other opportunities with pharmacy!:
  • The Pharmacy Workforce is a study. It is not an exact prediction of the future.
  • Pharmacy is an evolving profession. New domains are opening up. There is still a very bright future for the profession in the hospital, community and industrial settings.
  • Pharmacy for me which is a non profit agency has information about different Career paths visit Pharmacy Careers | Pharmacy for me
  • There is no accurate prediction of the future. So many variables do change. As an example, in California now, the Governor just granted pharmacists the authority to order and administer Covid-19 tests: Pharmacists Granted Authority to Order, Administer COVID-19 Tests in California
  • last year, around 80% of our graduates had a job offer before the graduation. - LECOM School of Pharmacy
  • I have not heard of any students from last year's graduating class struggling to find positions - WesternU
  • Many of our graduates go on to work in hospital and community pharmacies, as well as opened their own pharmacies - WesternU
These are all great points!
I suppose that you newbies can fly with this....but may easily be on a wing and a prayer....with the autoland inop...
 

jacksmith228833

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Hi jacksmith228833!
I see that you are concerned about the job market. I have recently attended a recent virtual pharmacy school fair and got to speak with many school administrator, professors, and students. While it is true that retail is going through a rough patch, they had this to say about endless other opportunities with pharmacy!:
  • The Pharmacy Workforce is a study. It is not an exact prediction of the future.
  • Pharmacy is an evolving profession. New domains are opening up. There is still a very bright future for the profession in the hospital, community and industrial settings.
  • Pharmacy for me which is a non profit agency has information about different Career paths visit Pharmacy Careers | Pharmacy for me
  • There is no accurate prediction of the future. So many variables do change. As an example, in California now, the Governor just granted pharmacists the authority to order and administer Covid-19 tests: Pharmacists Granted Authority to Order, Administer COVID-19 Tests in California
  • last year, around 80% of our graduates had a job offer before the graduation. - LECOM School of Pharmacy
  • I have not heard of any students from last year's graduating class struggling to find positions - WesternU
  • Many of our graduates go on to work in hospital and community pharmacies, as well as opened their own pharmacies - WesternU
These are all great points!

Good afternoon.....

Yes, no one can exactly predict the future...if I say 15000 pharmacists will be unemployed, and there are 14999, I have not exactly predicted the future

Yes, new domains are opening up...but may not these domains are gig-economy jobs and may not be the domains you are hoping for

80% had an offer...4 hours a week is an offer

I have not heard.... well, I have not heard of a lot of things, but it does not follow that they don't exist

Many of our graduates..... many could be 3 or above, and how many are graduating??


Please re read the quotes you posted above, pay attention to the hedge words and inexact thinking behind them... then think QUI BONO.. who benefits if you enroll in their program? 200000 plus dollars worth of benefit!

The people who told you this are salespeople: caveat emptor
 

DruggieDoRight

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  • The Pharmacy Workforce is a study. It is not an exact prediction of the future.
-This plus anecdotal evidence in my experience suggests otherwise. I know PGY2s and PGY1s that are struggling to find work.
  • Pharmacy is an evolving profession. New domains are opening up. There is still a very bright future for the profession in the hospital, community and industrial settings.
-Any specific examples? This sounds like wishful thinking.
-I guess this relates to your prior point? This website is literally a bunch of nonsense describing the various paths of PGY1s or PGY2s, and jobs that there's like maybe a dozen of PharmDs that do them. My favorite is reading the "traits" these supposed "students" have. Like for instance the poison control pharmacist, " You are less interested in working directly with patients, and can make decisions in a crisis. Additionally, you are a good listener, are able to communicate clearly and calmly under pressure, and are interested in the effect of toxic materials on the body."

Yeah that probably will describe anyone after a couple years of normal practice.
-I love this nonsense because you can do these things and not get paid for them since the insurance doesn't have to reimburse you.
  • last year, around 80% of our graduates had a job offer before the graduation. - LECOM School of Pharmacy
-Residency barely qualifies as employment or these PRN positions that are like 8 hours or whatever. Even more funny is this comes out of LECOM one of the worst pharmacy schools.
  • I have not heard of any students from last year's graduating class struggling to find positions - WesternU
-Translation: "Oh please please PLEASE come to my school and pay tuition."
  • Many of our graduates go on to work in hospital and community pharmacies, as well as opened their own pharmacies - WesternU
-You can't just make claims and not put any stats to back this up. I highly doubt these newly minted pharmacists are opening their own pharmacies due to declining reimbursement from PBMs.
 
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deleted562805

Good afternoon.....

Yes, no one can exactly predict the future...if I say 15000 pharmacists will be unemployed, and there are 14999, I have not exactly predicted the future

Yes, new domains are opening up...but may not these domains are gig-economy jobs and may not be the domains you are hoping for

80% had an offer...4 hours a week is an offer

I have not heard.... well, I have not heard of a lot of things, but it does not follow that they don't exist

Many of our graduates..... many could be 3 or above, and how many are graduating??


Please re read the quotes you posted above, pay attention to the hedge words and inexact thinking behind them... then think QUI BONO.. who benefits if you enroll in their program? 200000 plus dollars worth of benefit!

The people who told you this are salespeople: caveat emptor
Timbo I think is well aware of the job market. Many of Timbo’s posts are satire.
 

BRIGGSQUAD

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Take a year off, blame the corona virus ,dont go straight to pharmacy school and do your research about the job market

Walgreens is closing 200 odd stores, BTW

Yeah do your research, and you'll see that with a little hard work and networking you can have tremendous success in the profession of pharmacy. Chain pharmacy is not the only path to getting a job.
 
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DruggieDoRight

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Yeah do your research, and you'll see that with a little hard work and networking you can have tremendous success in the profession of pharmacy. Chain pharmacy is not the only path to getting a job.

Well, pack it up kids, this is the answer right here. just work hard and network and you'll succeed BIGLY at pharmacy.
 
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Timbo

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Yeah do your research, and you'll see that with a little hard work and networking you can have tremendous success in the profession of pharmacy. Chain pharmacy is not the only path to getting a job.
I agree. I see so many retail pharmacists keep complaining about their jobs. Why don't they just leave? I think they don't work hard enough (lazy) and don't know how to do networking (socially inept)
 
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PharmtoCS

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For every Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates there are a million entrepreneurs that went bankrupt or can barely pay their bills working 60 hours a week. Statisically, employed individuals are better off financially even in a world where wages haven't grown in 40 years. Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates are the only ones you'll see on the news, unfortunately. No one is going to air a failed business owner who went bankrupt because there's no market for their services. The "if you work really hard you can be anything" nonsense makes for a great fairytale, but unfortunately that is not the reality based on how the current economy is set up. Everyone works hard. If you don't, you don't survive. After that, you'll get your lottery ticket.

For every 1 new grad that lands their dream job in industry, informatics, amb care, nuclear, specialty, etc. there will be likely be 50 that are unemployed and 100 that are stuck in retail hell begging for hours.
 
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mentos

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Yeah do your research, and you'll see that with a little hard work and networking you can have tremendous success in the profession of pharmacy. Chain pharmacy is not the only path to getting a job.

Damn I've been doing it wrong this whole time. I didn't do any hard work or networking. I should have done a little of both!
 
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Sleepingdoc

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No matter what is your profession, you need to work hard...you can make it happen...
Yeah Pharmacy did not use to be what it did 20 years ago where they used to give huge sign on bonuses and rediculous amount of salary, but people still make good living out of it... there are also a lot of bad apples trying to distract you away because you will be their competition... this is life... the whole world is after STEM fields...the government is encouraging students to go to Science fields, i am sure you see ads on TV promoting STEM...Guess what the competition will be high no matter what field you go to- and you need to be better..If you have passion for pharmacy and you will do well.

Honestly, if you are trying to go into profession to make money the best profession would be plumbing and electrical work... all you would need is a 6 month training and no student loans...with ton of opportunities.
 
D

deleted562805

No matter what is your profession, you need to work hard...you can make it happen...
Yeah Pharmacy did not use to be what it did 20 years ago where they used to give huge sign on bonuses and rediculous amount of salary, but people still make good living out of it... there are also a lot of bad apples trying to distract you away because you will be their competition... this is life... the whole world is after STEM fields...the government is encouraging students to go to Science fields, i am sure you see ads on TV promoting STEM...Guess what the competition will be high no matter what field you go to- and you need to be better..If you have passion for pharmacy and you will do well.

Honestly, if you are trying to go into profession to make money the best profession would be plumbing and electrical work... all you would need is a 6 month training and no student loans...with ton of opportunities.
Well, if you work hard and SMART, you can make it happen. Going into pharmacy school is not a smart financial decision.
 
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Sleepingdoc

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Well, if you work hard and SMART, you can make it happen. Going into pharmacy school is not a smart financial decision.

But I would like to argue that Plumbing and electrical work pays a lot of money 90-100$ an hour....I dont see a line at technical schools for admissions.

That tells me that there is a lot more people wanting to be a pharmacist than a plumber... and there is something that attract them to pharmacy, not just for money.... its the passion for it.
 
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But I would like to argue that Plumbing and electrical work pays a lot of money 90-100$ an hour....I dont see a line at technical schools for admissions.
National average for plumbing is $29/hr and HVAC technician is $24/hr per ziprecruiter. Your numbers don't make any sense unless you are running a business in that field, in which case you wouldn't be paid hourly in the first place.
 
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Sleepingdoc

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National average for plumbing is $29/hr and HVAC technician is $24/hr per ziprecruiter. Your numbers don't make any sense unless you are running a business in that field, in which case you wouldn't be paid hourly in the first place.

Have you called a plumber before???? 30 minutes of work and it cost me 500$... If you have a home you will know how much it costs.. The dude was booked for the next two weeks... Let me know where I can find a plumber for 24 $ an hour to work for me...
 
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Have you called a plumber before???? 30 minutes of work and it cost me 500$... If you have a home you will know how much it costs.. The dude was booked for the next two weeks... Let me know where I can find a plumber for 24 $ an hour to work for me...
Your quote =/= money that goes into that person's pocket. I don't understand how that's a difficulty concept to grasp.
If that person works for a company then the company takes a cut as well as expenses. $500 gross doesn't mean $500 net profit. By that way of thinking most doctors should be making multiple times their salary because their billing is much higher than their salary...
 
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Sleepingdoc

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Your quote =/= money that goes into that person's pocket. I don't understand how that's a difficulty concept to grasp.
If that person works for a company then the company takes a cut as well as expenses. $500 gross doesn't mean $500 net profit. By that way of thinking most doctors should be making multiple times their salary because their billing is much higher than their salary...
Most people who have technical skills like plumbing and AC tech own their own business...unless they are just too stupid to figure it out... Try to google " average cost per hour to hire a plumber".... you will figure it out what I am talking about....
 
D

deleted562805

But I would like to argue that Plumbing and electrical work pays a lot of money 90-100$ an hour....I dont see a line at technical schools for admissions.

That tells me that there is a lot more people wanting to be a pharmacist than a plumber... and there is something that attract them to pharmacy, not just for money.... its the passion for it.
Passion is not getting you out of debt stuck in a job cutting your hours year after year ( retail pharmacy) or getting a job that significantly pays less then your student loan debt. ( clinical pharmacy).
 
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PharmtoCS

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Many teachers, artists, actors and actresses. etc. who are truly passionate about their professions make immense sacrifices to achieve their goal. That means living paycheck to paycheck, working unrelated odd jobs to pay the bills, and even spending their own personal income to invest into their passions. Many teachers even have to spend their own money to buy school supplies for their students.

Here in pharmacy we have those who join the profession to "help people" yet think that working at a $50-60/hr retail job dealing with the public or moving to a rural underserved area away from their hometown is beneath them. Not that passion will help much if there are no jobs unless if you're willing to work for peanuts.
 
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mentos

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Many teachers, artists, actors and actresses. etc. who are truly passionate about their professions make immense sacrifices to achieve their goal. That means living paycheck to paycheck, working unrelated odd jobs to pay the bills, and even spending their own personal income to invest into their passions. Many teachers even have to spend their own money to buy school supplies for their students.

Here in pharmacy we have those who join the profession to "help people" yet think that working at a $50-60/hr retail job dealing with the public or moving to a rural underserved area away from their hometown is beneath them. Not that passion will help much if there are no jobs unless if you're willing to work for peanuts.

Most of these pharmacists who are "passionate" and want to "help people" hide behind their computer in the back of the pharmacy. They are the last ones to pick up the phone. Consult is the last place a pharmacist wants to be. If they truly wanted to help people, they would ask the customer to bring in a bag of all their meds and do an MTM for free.

I wish people would be real and say they are in it for the money.
 
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PharmtoCS

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Most of these pharmacists who are "passionate" and want to "help people" hide behind their computer in the back of the pharmacy. They are the last ones to pick up the phone. Consult is the last place a pharmacist wants to be. If they truly wanted to help people, they would ask the customer to bring in a bag of all their meds and do an MTM for free.

I wish people would be real and say they are in it for the money.

The irony is that many pharmacists joined the profession to "help people" yet the jobs which we don't have to deal with people are the most desired.
 
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Ideals fade quickly. I'm very impressed by those who put their money where their mouth is and go into lower paying professions like social work. I like to think of myself as a good person, but I'm not that good.
 
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Dred Pirate

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Hi jacksmith228833!
I see that you are concerned about the job market. I have recently attended a recent virtual pharmacy school fair and got to speak with many school administrator, professors, and students. While it is true that retail is going through a rough patch, they had this to say about endless other opportunities with pharmacy!:
  • The Pharmacy Workforce is a study. It is not an exact prediction of the future.
  • Pharmacy is an evolving profession. New domains are opening up. There is still a very bright future for the profession in the hospital, community and industrial settings.
  • Pharmacy for me which is a non profit agency has information about different Career paths visit Pharmacy Careers | Pharmacy for me
  • There is no accurate prediction of the future. So many variables do change. As an example, in California now, the Governor just granted pharmacists the authority to order and administer Covid-19 tests: Pharmacists Granted Authority to Order, Administer COVID-19 Tests in California
  • last year, around 80% of our graduates had a job offer before the graduation. - LECOM School of Pharmacy
  • I have not heard of any students from last year's graduating class struggling to find positions - WesternU
  • Many of our graduates go on to work in hospital and community pharmacies, as well as opened their own pharmacies - WesternU
These are all great points!
I am going to be honest with you and everyone else - Until 6 months ago, I hired pharmacists. I reviewed applications, did interviews, and extended offers. We would get over 100 applications for every job. And these were just the ones that made it through HR to us. We are generally only hiring PGY2 for any position that has some sort of specialty (ICU, Onc, etc). and a PGY1 for any less specialized area. We are offering salaries similar to what I was making 10 years ago. I personally have talked several young undergrads out of pharmacy when I tell them the stats. Saying this, I enjoy my job, I just know I am very lucky to have stumbled into it over a decade ago and am holding on to it as long as possible.
To address the statements above.
1. it has been fairly accurate over the years.
2. This is the same line they were telling me back in 2000 - and for the most part it has NOT come true.
3. These "other career paths" acount for less than 3% of all jobs
4. Being able to administer one new test for a virus that likely will have a vaccine in a year will not have an appreciable affect on the job market.
5. 75% pass rate on the NAPLEX, wouldn't trust that school. Plus my class had 100% job placement rate (full time, not this part time stuff offered now) when we walked across the stage. Many of us (myself included) had 4-5 job offers and we got to choose. Plus we got a 15-45k sign on bonus for it.
6. They didn't ask hard enough. I just spoke to our new residents and many many of them have friends who are jobless.
7. Virutally no one is opening their own pharmacy now days - (rare exceptions) you need so much capital, plus the big chains will drive you into the ground. (I worked at an independent before going to pharmacy school - he was bought out and make big $$ - he admits he was one of the few lucky ones)

please please do yourself a favor and listen to those in the trenches - not those at the school who are detached from the real world and have an incentive to sell you on their program. You wouldn't go to a ford dealerships and expect them to be honest with you and tell you a toyota is actually a better vehicle? that is what these recruiters are, salespeople who have their best interest in mind.
 

Marzapan

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I am going to be honest with you and everyone else - Until 6 months ago, I hired pharmacists. I reviewed applications, did interviews, and extended offers. We would get over 100 applications for every job. And these were just the ones that made it through HR to us. We are generally only hiring PGY2 for any position that has some sort of specialty (ICU, Onc, etc). and a PGY1 for any less specialized area. We are offering salaries similar to what I was making 10 years ago. I personally have talked several young undergrads out of pharmacy when I tell them the stats. Saying this, I enjoy my job, I just know I am very lucky to have stumbled into it over a decade ago and am holding on to it as long as possible.
To address the statements above.
1. it has been fairly accurate over the years.
2. This is the same line they were telling me back in 2000 - and for the most part it has NOT come true.
3. These "other career paths" acount for less than 3% of all jobs
4. Being able to administer one new test for a virus that likely will have a vaccine in a year will not have an appreciable affect on the job market.
5. 75% pass rate on the NAPLEX, wouldn't trust that school. Plus my class had 100% job placement rate (full time, not this part time stuff offered now) when we walked across the stage. Many of us (myself included) had 4-5 job offers and we got to choose. Plus we got a 15-45k sign on bonus for it.
6. They didn't ask hard enough. I just spoke to our new residents and many many of them have friends who are jobless.
7. Virutally no one is opening their own pharmacy now days - (rare exceptions) you need so much capital, plus the big chains will drive you into the ground. (I worked at an independent before going to pharmacy school - he was bought out and make big $$ - he admits he was one of the few lucky ones)

please please do yourself a favor and listen to those in the trenches - not those at the school who are detached from the real world and have an incentive to sell you on their program. You wouldn't go to a ford dealerships and expect them to be honest with you and tell you a toyota is actually a better vehicle? that is what these recruiters are, salespeople who have their best interest in mind.
The sarcasm in his post is so thick that it got you. Nice.
 

Hedgehog32

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I am going to be honest with you and everyone else - Until 6 months ago, I hired pharmacists. I reviewed applications, did interviews, and extended offers. We would get over 100 applications for every job. And these were just the ones that made it through HR to us. We are generally only hiring PGY2 for any position that has some sort of specialty (ICU, Onc, etc). and a PGY1 for any less specialized area. We are offering salaries similar to what I was making 10 years ago. I personally have talked several young undergrads out of pharmacy when I tell them the stats. Saying this, I enjoy my job, I just know I am very lucky to have stumbled into it over a decade ago and am holding on to it as long as possible.
To address the statements above.
1. it has been fairly accurate over the years.
2. This is the same line they were telling me back in 2000 - and for the most part it has NOT come true.
3. These "other career paths" acount for less than 3% of all jobs
4. Being able to administer one new test for a virus that likely will have a vaccine in a year will not have an appreciable affect on the job market.
5. 75% pass rate on the NAPLEX, wouldn't trust that school. Plus my class had 100% job placement rate (full time, not this part time stuff offered now) when we walked across the stage. Many of us (myself included) had 4-5 job offers and we got to choose. Plus we got a 15-45k sign on bonus for it.
6. They didn't ask hard enough. I just spoke to our new residents and many many of them have friends who are jobless.
7. Virutally no one is opening their own pharmacy now days - (rare exceptions) you need so much capital, plus the big chains will drive you into the ground. (I worked at an independent before going to pharmacy school - he was bought out and make big $$ - he admits he was one of the few lucky ones)

please please do yourself a favor and listen to those in the trenches - not those at the school who are detached from the real world and have an incentive to sell you on their program. You wouldn't go to a ford dealerships and expect them to be honest with you and tell you a toyota is actually a better vehicle? that is what these recruiters are, salespeople who have their best interest in mind.

Do you consider hiring experienced pharmacists who didn't complete a PGY-1 for non-specialized positions? Or is completion of a PGY-1 now a requirement even for entry-level staffing jobs?
 

Dred Pirate

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Do you consider hiring experienced pharmacists who didn't complete a PGY-1 for non-specialized positions? Or is completion of a PGY-1 now a requirement even for entry-level staffing jobs?
my opinion is very different than most upper level mgmt. I will take experience over credentials 9 times out of 10 - but I also have a PGY-0. For an operational position, any day. For the non-specialized positions I definitely would if you have experience, but I think more an more places are leaning towards PGY-1 preferred, if not required.
 
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