Pre-Pharmacy *****s... read this!

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Are you a pharmacist at cvs? Idk some of my clasmates are super happy to even be getting offers from cvs if that says anything
 
rederza said:
Are you a pharmacist at cvs? Idk some of my clasmates are super happy to even be getting offers from cvs if that says anything
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Yeah, since that's the only company hiring since no one wants to work there due to the horrible work conditions!
 

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H8_CVS said:
Yeah, since that's the only company hiring since no one wants to work there due to the horrible work conditions!
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Are you full time at a 24/7 store or something? Jw
 
Really classy starting your thread calling all of us *****s... This is like the 100th thread made about this within a month. We are not blind, at least I don't think I am. Not every single person is blindly going into pharmacy without knowing what is happening. I never post in threads like this because I do believe pre-pharmacy students should know that pharmacy is not all rainbows and butterflies, but you took it too far...
 
H8_CVS said:
The Real Life of a Pharmacist

http://careerplanning.about.com/u/ua/occupations/pharmacist_ua.htm

4 or 5 years down the line, don't come back here saying we didn't warn you about this profession and where it is headed.

AVOID PHARMACY SCHOOL! The loans to become a retail bitch isn't worth it!!!
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Shhhh!

Keep the competition AWAY from those trying to apply to a medical school in the states!

Wait . . . is this "competition" the same people who just got by in undergrad? 50%ile PCAT?

Nvm, worries quelled, fragile ego intact. Insecurities no longer taking over my psyche. 🙂
 
PharmDCandidate2014 said:
Shhhh!

Keep the competition AWAY from those trying to apply to a medical school in the states!

Wait . . . is this "competition" the same people who just got by in undergrad? 50%ile PCAT?

Nvm, worries quelled, fragile ego intact. Insecurities no longer taking over my psyche. 🙂
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50 percentile ?? You are still too generous... LoL

Nothing to worry about indeed 😉
 
PharmDCandidate2014 said:
Shhhh!

Keep the competition AWAY from those trying to apply to a medical school in the states!

Wait . . . is this "competition" the same people who just got by in undergrad? 50%ile PCAT?

Nvm, worries quelled, fragile ego intact. Insecurities no longer taking over my psyche. 🙂
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You can always send the competition into computer programming. They can make $45-60k as a lower level programmer when they learn the skills on their own or with an AS degree (virtually 0 student debt), or $100k as a software engineer with a B.S. in computer science. No $350k+ debt and 7+ years of postsecondary education necessary to become a doctor.
 
stoichiometrist said:
You can always send the competition into computer programming. They can make $45-60k as a lower level programmer when they learn the skills on their own or with an AS degree (virtually 0 student debt), or $100k as a software engineer with a B.S. in computer science. No $350k+ debt and 7+ years of postsecondary education necessary to become a doctor.
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Programming is definitely a cool gig. Always room for updating code, making code more efficient, being innovative, room to hone your craft. All qualities of a career pointing the right direction. Hard to see another "burst" in the technology sector in our lifetime with more and more people reliant on smart phones, tablets, and other cool gadgets.
 
If you really don't like it, you can always leave your job to someone who enjoys being a pharmacist. I believe the very bad working environment in retail pharmacy is caused by pharmacists with negative attitude.
 
chembiopharm said:
If you really don't like it, you can always leave your job to someone who enjoys being a pharmacist. I believe the very bad working environment in retail pharmacy is caused by pharmacists with negative attitude.
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how come we keep reading posts like these from mostly pre-pharmers ??
 
oldstock said:
how come we keep reading posts like these from mostly pre-pharmers ??
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Because these pre-pharmers think that once they replace these said "pharmacists with negative attitude" that pharmacy will turn into a land of rainbows and unicorns.

Never mind that job security has gotten much worse, work environment is worse, metrics/expectations are much higher, understaffing has become more common, tuition has skyrocketed, and salaries have remained stagnant or dropped.
 
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chembiopharm said:
May I ask why you applied pharmacy schools if you think pharmacist is a bad profession? Are you still in pharmacy school?
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I did not know about the mess in pharmacy before I got in... My fault of not doing enough research/DD. But I am now preparing to take the MCAT in a couple of months and switch. If I do not get in med school, I prob go back to my old career or open some business... This Rx **** is not worth none of my money, time, or effort, esp. with the poor job outlook.

But your questions about me have been asked before. The people asking those questions are like, if you are in, I am getting in also. Ehhhhzz: Wrong !!

My advice: do not focus on me. Please do focus on yourself. Gather the facts and numbers and also do some real-life investigation to see the reality and truth about pharmacy and do the math yourself to see if pharmacy is still worthy of your investment of money, time, and effort. Then make your own decision as I am not going to make that one for you. Once you got in pharmacy or medicine, you are going to be stuck there for life. Remember that. GL 😉
 
eliafua said:
All of these threads "warning" us are getting a little out of hand. Pharmacists hold a very important job. I think people are missing the point here, it's not just about the money. Instead of trying to stray people away from the field, they should inform them of both the positives & negatives, stressing that they must want this for the right reason.
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please do put down on papers the positives and negatives about pharmacy. Then do the math and decide for yourself. You are the one who should do that for yourself.


Yes I'll be in debt when I graduate but so will many others and I'll be advocating good health care abroad in order to prevent deaths. If I can help one person live longer, it's worth it to me.
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ok so if you wanna die on this Titanic with everyone else, no one is going to stop you. And how you are going to help anyone with little or no job or with jobs paying little as the result of new grads flooding the market ?? I bet all you care then is about finding ways to help yourself to live a longer. The last thing you care then is giving a eff'ng rat @ss about anyone else but yourself 🙂
 
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eliafua said:
All good jobs are becoming even more competitive now period. At the end of the day it's wrong to discourage people from their career choice in this vulgar manner. Work hard and do things that distinguish you from others and you'll be successful. I hope things get better for you.
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Just curious, how exactly do you plan on "distinguishing" yourself among all the thousands of other graduates that will be be in your grad year alone? I don't mean this in a snarky manner, I simply am curious.

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eliafua said:
Yes, those two are my top choices. Attending a reputable school in a competitive field is important. I plan on holding leadership positions, being involved, & getting a residency. I know they'll be even more competitive by the time I apply but I know I can get in. I understand the concern and it is important to know the disadvantages to such a big choice, but I just think that people are blowing it a bit out of proportion. There are plenty of other jobs that have an even higher risk factor than pharmacy, but it's up to the individual to decide how secure they need to feel.
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you will be also your class president and involved in other 100 organizations, working 20 or 40 hours in pharmacy, and doing PGY-10. But so do your other 150 classmates and upper classmen. And so do student at other schools. You will get a job (pharmacy or not) to pay back your 150K+ student loans because you will have no other choice. Pharmacy wage might go down to 20-30 bucks an hour by then thanks to the courtesy of 200-300 pharm schools which happily keep on pumping to the market. Enjoy 🙂
 
eliafua said:
I'm not going to even take the time to read all of your negativity. This isn't a place to argue, it's a place to help people in a respectful manner. Like I said, I hope things get better for you.
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For the record, its not about me being disrepectful which I am not. My posts at you were more about annoying at your BS. "Help a person to live a little longer". C'mon. LoL

But please do not read my posts then. I am not gonna waste this beautiful Sunday morning to go back and forth with you. Just state my opinions for the ones who listen. Its your ultimate decision whatever your true motivation is. Hope you get PGY-10. GL 🙂
 
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eliafua said:
Yes, those two are my top choices. Attending a reputable school in a competitive field is important. I plan on holding leadership positions, being involved, & getting a residency. I know they'll be even more competitive by the time I apply but I know I can get in. I understand the concern and it is important to know the disadvantages to such a big choice, but I just think that people are blowing it a bit out of proportion. There are plenty of other jobs that have an even higher risk factor than pharmacy, but it's up to the individual to decide how secure they need to feel.
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Good for you. Those are two better schools to go to. Residency doesn't guarantee you a job, understand that.
Also, pharmacy school is structured so that there are more orgs than there are students, so expect to see people who are president of animal/mexico/canada/marine/space/Antarctica pharmacy association---it means very little. It's more important to hold a job and secure a position through that. This isn't just, "I believe I can so I will". It's necessary that you start a job your p1 year and intern with them for the next 4 years, all while being pres of said orgs, on top on managing a bunch of classes.

It's not so much as a risk factor, it's just the reality of the profession that makes me wonder why bother?

edit; maybe you'll directly help 4-5 people live longer. Maybe.
 
eliafua said:
Yes, those two are my top choices. Attending a reputable school in a competitive field is important. I plan on holding leadership positions, being involved, & getting a residency. I know they'll be even more competitive by the time I apply but I know I can get in. I understand the concern and it is important to know the disadvantages to such a big choice, but I just think that people are blowing it a bit out of proportion. There are plenty of other jobs that have an even higher risk factor than pharmacy, but it's up to the individual to decide how secure they need to feel.
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Those schools are excellent choices in terms of reputation and tuition. However, do realize that others will have the same mindset as you and will be competing for these positions, especially since you're planning to go to a reputable school. There are students who work hard, have everything lined up, and successfully land their dream job, and there are those who do the minimal work and end up unemployed or scrambling for whatever position they can find. There are also those who work hard and have had plans to line everything up but still do not land where they wish, possibly even have completed a residency, and still end up having to settle for an undesirable job in an undesirable area, or even unemployed. People who fall into the latter category are becoming more common as competition for leadership positions, internships, residencies, jobs, and even rotation spots intensifies. There are simply too many pharmacy students chasing too few opportunities, and a lot of them will think that they will be just fine because we just love to teach kids that "everyone's a winner."

It looks like you have a decent plan though. As @rederza says...get an internship as soon as possible. Also, keep your options open in the type of setting and location you are willing to work, especially since there is still always chance you will have to work retail in rural Texas.
 
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Very well said !!

But a lot like the one above are willing to pay 150k+ to have a chance to struggle for their future. Obviously there are a lot out there who have yet to have common sense or investment 101. But why should we care ?? Its their money which they have the rights to burn if they choose to so. 🙂


stoichiometrist said:
Those schools are excellent choices in terms of reputation and tuition. However, do realize that others will have the same mindset as you and will be competing for these positions, especially since you're planning to go to a reputable school. There are students who work hard, have everything lined up, and successfully land their dream job, and there are those who do the minimal work and end up unemployed or scrambling for whatever position they can find. There are also those who work hard and have had plans to line everything up but still do not land where they wish, possibly even have completed a residency, and still end up having to settle for an undesirable job in an undesirable area, or even unemployed. People who fall into the latter category are becoming more common as competition for leadership positions, internships, residencies, jobs, and even rotation spots intensifies. There are simply too many pharmacy students chasing too few opportunities, and a lot of them will think that they will be just fine because they we just love to teach kids that "everyone's a winner."
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eliafua said:
I agree and I'm 100% ready to take that risk. I see these threads all the time and never post in them. I'm all about informing others, but it needs to be done the right way. Thanks for your advice.
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I read these exact same posts in 2007 when I was deciding on rx school... I actually ended up gambling nearly 400k on it in student loans and interest and while I was paranoid as **** at the time, it was the best decision of my life and I literally couldn't be happier.

And I would say it's not about organizations any more than they allow you to network ... Its about getting work experience most importantly, and secondly, knowing people .. any good applicant who cares about getting a job will have this.

Even if there is 50% unemployment among new grads, that just means you need to be in the top half .. and as you can see there are not that many critical thinkers attending rx school.
 
type b pharmD said:
I read these exact same posts in 2007 when I was deciding on rx school... I actually ended up gambling nearly 400k on it in student loans and interest and while I was paranoid as **** at the time, it was the best decision of my life and I literally couldn't be happier.

And I would say it's not about organizations any more than they allow you to network ... Its about getting work experience most importantly, and secondly, knowing people .. any good applicant who cares about getting a job will have this.

Even if there is 50% unemployment among new grads, that just means you need to be in the top half .. and as you can see there are not that many critical thinkers attending rx school.
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I would think critical thinking would mean not gambling 400k for a job when you know there's 50% unemployment rate. But that's just me. I don't think there's anything wrong with my critical thinking for not gambling with even 120k, when there's other jobs that cost the same or less in schooling but is more predictable in outcome.
 
rederza said:
I would think critical thinking would mean not gambling 400k for a job when you know there's 50% unemployment rate. But that's just me. I don't think there's anything wrong with my critical thinking for not gambling with even 120k, when there's other jobs that cost the same or less in schooling but is more predictable in outcome.
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Excellent response !! 👍👍
 
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rederza said:
I would think critical thinking would mean not gambling 400k for a job when you know there's 50% unemployment rate. But that's just me. I don't think there's anything wrong with my critical thinking for not gambling with even 120k, when there's other jobs that cost the same or less in schooling but is more predictable in outcome.
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To also add, critical thinking is also to have a future vision deducted from the present picture. Not to wait for things already happened and be obvious. In pharmacy, what vision can we have when new schools keep on opening and pumping out tons of new grads to address a "shortage" ??
 
oldstock said:
To also add, critical thinking is also to have a future vision deducted from the present picture. Not to wait for things already happened and be obvious. In pharmacy, what vision can we have when new schools keep on opening and pumping out tons of new grads to address a "shortage" ??
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The realistic vision of attaining 20 total hours of work weekly for $35/hour (1).

*Edit:
Sources:
(1) Giving credit to ExpressMaiL.
 
@oldstock I'm surprised that you started pharmacy school this semester to begin with. You have been posting about the fall of pharmacy and saturation since you were a pre-pharm candidate earlier this summer and yet you still went to pharmacy school anyways?

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you in your mid 40s? If you are trying to start med school now you might not have a lot of time to practice before retirement age. You will have 4 years of med school (assuming you have finished your pre-med requirements already) and 3-7 years residency after that. Plus the cost of med school will be over 200k, so it will take you forever to pay that off.

And are you working while in school and do you have a family to support?

It sounds like you have everything figured out but to me starting med school now doesn't sound like a good move. I don't really know you so I'm sorry if my assumptions offend you. I'm just curious.
 
Chriskahn said:
@oldstock I'm surprised that you started pharmacy school this semester to begin with. You have been posting about the fall of pharmacy and saturation since you were a pre-pharm candidate earlier this summer and yet you still went to pharmacy school anyways?

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you in your mid 40s? If you are trying to start med school now you might not have a lot of time to practice before retirement age. You will have 4 years of med school (assuming you have finished your pre-med requirements already) and 3-7 years residency after that. Plus the cost of med school will be over 200k, so it will take you forever to pay that off.

And are you working while in school and do you have a family to support?

It sounds like you have everything figured out but to me starting med school now doesn't sound like a good move. I don't really know you so I'm sorry if my assumptions offend you. I'm just curious.
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you do not know me indeed... so your assumptions and your unsolicited advice about me are wrong and not appropriate for me. (My advice to you: if you want to advise or make assumptions about someone, it is better to wait for the person to initiate, provide you with their personal details, and ask the questions so that you can make good assumptions and provide better advice. This is why you never see me to tell anyone in particular to do anything. Here I only state the general picture of pharmacy and my opinions where it is heading. It is up to anyone who reads my posts to make their own conclusions and/or act on them.)

If you would like to know more about me or why I started pharmacy school, PM me. I might tell you everything. But certainly I do not wanna lay out all my personal details in a public forum for privacy concerns.

Indeed, I really do not have to answer these types of questions like your questions here, which require me to tell my personal life in a public forum. But the short answer is, I am not intending to be a pharmacist no more as I originally planned when I applied to pharmacy schools but using pharmacy coursework as a stepping stone, a special SMP if you will, to medical school. Why is this right for me ?? For a start, do you know whether I pay pharmacy schools with full student loans or scholarship ?? I go to a cheap or expensive school ?? How much money I have saved for this business or how I would finance med school ?? Do I want or need to do med school and how a MD degree is going to help me ?? Like I said, I do not have any desire to lay my personal details and future plan here for all to see. Remember again I do not ask anyone for opinions or advice on what I wanna do with pharmacy or medicine.

anyway, it seems like you and several who are asking these questions are trying to discredit my opinions/comments/arguments by directing your arguments at me and motivation, and not my arguments or opinions. My motivation is just nothing but trying to help by informing others of what I see in pharmacy, and people still need to evaluate data, draw their own conclusion, and make their own decision or action.

But you look at this the wrong way. Focus on the big picture of pharmacy and how you will fit in it. Just because I am in, it does not mean that you should. Focus on yourself and pharmacy, not me.

In general, focus on yourself and answer these questions: what is going to happen when schools keep opening and pumping out new grads ?? What would happen to you and what are you going to do then as a new PharmD ?? What would you do now to better prepare for your future and get the best return for your investment of time, money, and hard work ?? Then figure out a way to work best to achieve your life goals for YOUR own situation.

Please do not worry about me in pharmacy school or want to go to med school unless I ask for your opinions or advice. But I do thank you very much for your concern.

Hope all this typing satisfies your curiosity !! 😉

I am seeing that many are going to ask the same questions that you do. So I take some time to write all that out so that the next time a person asks me the same questions, I just have to direct him/her to this post. In fact, in this thread, it has already happened twice 🙂

chembiopharm said:
May I ask why you applied pharmacy schools if you think pharmacist is a bad profession? Are you still in pharmacy school?
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oldstock said:
I did not know about the mess in pharmacy before I got in... My fault of not doing enough research/DD. But I am now preparing to take the MCAT in a couple of months and switch. If I do not get in med school, I prob go back to my old career or open some business... This Rx **** is not worth none of my money, time, or effort, esp. with the poor job outlook.

But your questions about me have been asked before. The people asking those questions are like, if you are in, I am getting in also. Ehhhhzz: Wrong !!

My advice: do not focus on me. Please do focus on yourself. Gather the facts and numbers and also do some real-life investigation to see the reality and truth about pharmacy and do the math yourself to see if pharmacy is still worthy of your investment of money, time, and effort. Then make your own decision as I am not going to make that one for you. Once you got in pharmacy or medicine, you are going to be stuck there for life. Remember that. GL 😉
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@oldstock I was hoping to see your train of thought, so maybe it can help me figure out a few things of my own. I wasn't trying to discredit anything you said. I'm a little older myself, turning 30 in a few months with a family to support soon. (wife is expecting).

I was thinking of the med school route before I started trying for pharmacy, but it would require an additional 4 years since I don't have a bachelors, which means undergrad loans. There's no way I can be in med school for my entire 30s, not making money and stacking up loans. I would have to be single and living with my parents for that to happen. With pharmacy, my loans will barely reach 100k, since my school isn't super expensive. And I can be making good money in 4-5 years, just in time for the kiddo to start school and do expensive things like sports and such.

I was just trying to see what kind of plans you had, and how you would go about financing them. I guess I should have just PM you.

I know with the saturation, it might be hard to land a job. That is the reason you are quitting pharmacy and I understand. But hey I was making $14 an hour as a laser printer tech with no other experience so if pharmacy ends up paying only $30 an hour in the future I'm still a lot better off than I was.
 
Chriskahn said:
@oldstock I was hoping to see your train of thought, so maybe it can help me figure out a few things of my own. I wasn't trying to discredit anything you said. I'm a little older myself, turning 30 in a few months with a family to support soon. (wife is expecting).

I was thinking of the med school route before I started trying for pharmacy, but it would require an additional 4 years since I don't have a bachelors, which means undergrad loans. There's no way I can be in med school for my entire 30s, not making money and stacking up loans. I would have to be single and living with my parents for that to happen. With pharmacy, my loans will barely reach 100k, since my school isn't super expensive. And I can be making good money in 4-5 years, just in time for the kiddo to start school and do expensive things like sports and such.

I was just trying to see what kind of plans you had, and how you would go about financing them. I guess I should have just PM you.

I know with the saturation, it might be hard to land a job. That is the reason you are quitting pharmacy and I understand. But hey I was making $14 an hour as a laser printer tech with no other experience so if pharmacy ends up paying only $30 an hour in the future I'm still a lot better off than I was.
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PM me 🙂
 
Its great that some of you guys are trying to provide some insight on the profession, but the way some of you are doing it are so rude. "Pre-pharmacy *****s" like....like weren't you a pre-pharmacy ***** once too. :yawn:
 
_sonwin said:
Its great that some of you guys are trying to provide some insight on the profession, but the way some of you are doing it are so rude. "Pre-pharmacy *****s" like....like weren't you a pre-pharmacy ***** once too. :yawn:
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the way I interpret it is the OP was trying to grab your attention w the headline... looks like he got your attention 😉
 
In all honestly, I wish I could go back in time and change my career path. I was warned during pharmacy school and everything I was warned about is coming true. Nowadays, hospitals and insurance companies won't even consider you if you don't have a residency. So many students go unmatched every year for residencies...
 
VP_Pharm2004 said:
In all honestly, I wish I could go back in time and change my career path. I was warned during pharmacy school and everything I was warned about is coming true. Nowadays, hospitals and insurance companies won't even consider you if you don't have a residency. So many students go unmatched every year for residencies...
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it is all common sense and simple economics. Demand and supply. It is amazing that the market has been resilient and absorbent to all that non-stop pumping from more and more and more pharmacy schools. Obviously something is going to break. It is only a matter of time.

now can we stop schools from opening or expand ?? No, right ?? So we all know what we should do 🙂
 
I am so tired of these overachievers thinking that they'll be able to land their dream job or even a job if they "compete" with everyone else. There's nothing to compete for if there are no freaking jobs out there!! Also, the positions you see posted online are all HR formality and they already have a current part-time or per diem employee that they have in mind for the job. Anyways, good luck with "competing" with 40-60 other applicants for 1 possible open position. 🙄
 
I can always go back to my home country to be a pharmacist also if it all really goes to hell, which I doubt. A degree from America is highly desired over there.
 
newsflash: all grad schools make people go "broke"

and for getting a job, like any profession, over saturation sucks so that's why you need to use your time to get in on retail pharmacies and hospital pharmacies. that will make it easier to land a job, but either way it's not that hard. pharmacists are getting hired, mostly as floaters.
 
mjmjoa said:
newsflash: all grad schools make people go "broke"

and for getting a job, like any profession, over saturation sucks so that's why you need to use your time to get in on retail pharmacies and hospital pharmacies. that will make it easier to land a job, but either way it's not that hard. pharmacists are getting hired, mostly as floaters.
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wow, what an insight... floaters, huh ?? that is so .... great... lol

I want to tell you to tell me again after you graduate from pharm school w a PharmD... but nvm they let everyone in these days...
 
mjmjoa said:
newsflash: all grad schools make people go "broke"

and for getting a job, like any profession, over saturation sucks so that's why you need to use your time to get in on retail pharmacies and hospital pharmacies. that will make it easier to land a job, but either way it's not that hard. pharmacists are getting hired, mostly as floaters.
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Idiotic justifications like these by pre-pharmacy students are the main reasons why I no longer visit this forum. Most intelligent people would jump off a burning train, but in this case... we have people jumping on to go down in flames.
 
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