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too many people in America... People volunteer to jump down the flames might actually do some good for society lol 🙂
Pre-Pharmacy *****s... read this!
Started by H8_CVS
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too many people in America... People volunteer to jump down the flames might actually do some good for society lol 🙂
Same argument twisted 50 million times by pre pharmacy as well as pharmacy students culminating in nothing more than "if i work hard I will get a job"
What I don't understand is, why dont you put that EXACT same work and that EXACT same amount of loan (or less)
into something more assured like medicine or dental?
Acknowledging its a tough market and still going into it, there's no excuse. It's one thing to join unaware, its another to be fully aware and still do it.
Here's the main problem. These pharmacy schools, especially the new ones, need a body to fill the seat and just collect the tuition. It doesn't matter how unqualified they are, as long as they can breathe, we've got a paying student. I have had technicians that can barely speak English get accepted into new pharmacy schools. The recent batch of interns have been horrific and I've stopped precepting altogether... it's too much of an effort to teach students the basics when the program is taught by instructors (new grads) who can't find jobs.
Thus, anyone, I MEAN ANYONE, can get into pharmacy school as long as they have a 2.0. Doesn't matter if they smoke weed, do illicit drugs, have DUIs, barely speak English, failed a few courses. These candidates would not stand a chance in pre-med, law, or dental.
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denial ?? I know I did... 🙂
but again, I can understand why people are still going to pharmacy. Not everyone can get in med/dental schools. For a lot of people, it is the easiest and quickest way to a professional doctorate degree and possible good income (at least it is still to a point at this time) with subpar GPAs and PCAT. Don't think those same people could get in med schools or dental schools with that same level of work and intelligence. They just cannot get in med schools or dental schools. Pharmacy is their only ticket to being a "doctor" and having a good income. Pharm schools are letting people in easily these days. That is the hard truth of why that those people will not easily tell you...
You literally just described my school
Not that I have anything against foreigners or foreign students, but when your pt barely understands what you are saying, what good exactly are you doing? My school accepts a lot of int. students I was wondering why...then I found out they were paying cold hard cash for it. Which explains everything.
But you also described the profession to a T. Do you NEED to be a brilliant,cancer researching, professional speech writing student building hospitals in Africa in your spare time to do what pharmacists need to do? In retail you just need to be someone with a thick skin and can tolerate 8 hour shifts with maybe 1 bathroom break.
You don't need a pharmd to do this.
Looking at the quality of the students accepted these days isnt all that surprising, 3.0 gpa and 60 pcat is just the quality of the people finally settling down to what the profession recommends.
Sorry you have to deal with that. I'm sure you're a fine pharmacist, who graduated well before the influx of poorly qualified candidates.
Edit;
Int student tuition is more than native students as well
that applies to me as well. I almost cried w blood coming down instead of tears typing all those words...
I loved being a preceptor, but I just can't handle the unprofessionalism and outright stupidity of some of the students sent to my site. I cannot support what's happening to this profession. These students can get their clerkship requirements completed elsewhere.
hope a lot of other preceptor will do what u do and that will put a lid on crazy school expansion... fingers crossed !!
Did you have a BS or a pharmD?
Unsurprising, as current curriculum doesn't teach you so much as how to be a phamacist as how much to be a doctor someday. A real doctor. Not a doctor of pharmacy.
Pharm.D.
To the banned OP: No matter what you do, the pre-pharm students will ignore the warnings. It's funny to see some pharmacists posting in the "Pharmacy form" complaning how hard it is to get a job after graduation while they had been warned by others back in 2009 and they chose to ignore it.
Just let them suffer once they're out...Let it be..
Just let them suffer once they're out...Let it be..
Some of us are going into pharmacy not because we "weren't good enough to get into medical school", but because we actually love pharmacy.
I have a 99 composite on the PCAT, and a 3.6 overall/3.8 Science GPA. I have almost 4 years of healthcare experience, and a number of other extra curricular activities. I am more than "smart" enough to get into medical school if I really wanted to, however, I have zero interest in becoming a medical doctor, and dentistry is frankly just disgusting. I love working in pharmacy. I've been a tech for just shy of four years so I'm very well aware of what I'm getting into, and what's going on in the field of pharmacy. True, pharmacy is becoming saturated, but that's the way it's going in most fields right now. There are very few industries where people can expect to be handed a job right upon graduation. Heaven forbid you actually have to do some networking while in school, and get work experience as an intern outside of the IPPE/APPE's. While I don't necessarily want to do retail (I don't mind it though) I'm planning on sticking with my current company throughout school so if nothing else I will have a job when I graduate.
Agreed!
students in most fields do not have an avg of 150K+ in student loans or 6-8 yrs of schools +/- PGY-10.
push comes to shove, students in most fields can wait table to survive.... of course, like in most fields, some in pharmacy are going to be fine...
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I agree with you, even doctors don't have it easy right now. Its hard for them to get a residency, and if they do get in, its usually something they do not want. I know this cause a few of my TAs are med school grads who are doing something else just to get another chance to get into a residency.
One is DO and the other is from a Caribbean school.
just what I thought... but that DO (U.S. DO I assumed) did not match into residency on first try ??
nope, I didn't get into too much detail... for obvious reasons lol. But have you seen the stats of DO students lately? Some DO schools even remove Ds and Fs to raise their GPA...
just what I thought...
FYI, DO schools have been doing grade replacement for a while. So have some pharmacy schools...
But I still respect DO admission for their using a good standardized test for admission, i.e. the MCAT. Avg MCAT of accepted DO student ~ 28. If you wanna know how hard the MCAT vs PCAT, go take a practice MCAT just for fun 🙂
On the other hand, some pharmacy schools do not even use the PCAT, as easy as it is.... or accept students with PCAT scores of 50 percentile or even less, as easy as it is...
my friend was just accepted into DO school with a 24 >_< And I do know how hard the MCAT is lol... lots of pre-med students in my school.
28 is the avg. Your friend's MCAT score is a bit below the avg but other parts of his/her med school application must be great enough to compensate...
I thought this was a pharmacy forum. lol
Apply for scholarships. With this application, why not? That would be a good play.
'the most ive seen is like2k a year/ 1 student each yr. better than nothing i guess
The @oldstock SoP won't be as stingy with academic scholarships, I'll tell you that much. Our faculty is passionate and recognizes academic achievement. 🙂
LoL 🙂
More scholarships for students who can bring their friends, families, or even their dogs to attend our school jk lol
That's my plan over winter break. Going to head to the library and borrow the giant scholarship books they have and sift through them and see what graduate/professional scholarships are out there. My union offers a scholarship as well which I'm planning on applying to. Even if they're small, $2K-$3K scholarships, every little bit counts. I'm also planning on doing whatever I can to reduce my student loans in terms of living expenses. Since I'm married, we're hoping we can reduce/save enough so we can live on one income when classes are in session and not have to take out any loans to cover living expenses, since I'll only be able to work a couple days per week at best. We also have family near some of the schools I've applied to, who have generously agreed to let us live with them for the duration, which would help tremendously.
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LOL.. good luck finding a job with that career... many people already know languages when they are in HS.. hell even I can program stuff.. That career is more saturated than anything ive seen..
I don't understand.... You mean to tell me that there are careers outside pharmacy that are also experiencing saturation? Don't you know that such talk is forbidden on this forum?! 😀
nobody here owns this forum/thread. The main purpose is to exchange info, opinions, and arguments to help find solutions or deal with saturation in pharmacy. If you have something to add, please do and you might help someone.
Many computer science majors that I know have gotten offers of $100k+ right out of undergrad, if not with a few years of experience. Some are already buying houses, whereas none of my peers that went the medical or pharmacy routes have done so. It is hard to get a mortgage when you already have one ($200k+ student loans) without having a real house.
The few of you spend entirely too much time trying to dissuade everyone away from pharmacy and into computer programming. I am not a tech savvy person, so great to anyone that just wants to switch careers entirely to make money, but that's not where I want to go. I think the disillusioned pharm's that complain about not making $70/hour have little experience actually surviving on $14/hour WITH A BACHELOR's. Times are changing, in every profession. Some people complain while others do the best they can to be happy. Nobody "owns" this forum as you guys point out whenever anyone asks you to stop the multiple rant posts calling everyone that still chooses to go to pharmacy an idiot... That advice goes both ways. I think everyone understands the point you're trying to make, so maybe it's time to just start a new forum where you can all commiserate together on how little you make and how little respect you get and how you should have done pharmacy and leave us be. I can only speak for myself, but your "helpful" advice isn't helping and in my opinion you just sound bitter.
First off, nobody is calling you or anyone here an idiot for going pharmacy school (at least I do not). Second, indeed nobody owns this forum and everyone is entitled to their opinions. But nobody forces a gun on you or anyone to listen to "rants about saturation" or stop going to pharmacy. Remember you have to click on this thread to read the posts. You can just ignore the thread, leave YOURSELF out of it as nobody forces you in here. Likewise, you just can't tell or force people to stop posting about saturation problem in pharmacy.
The point is, if you choose to do pharmacy, nobody is going to stop you or force you to stop. Please do pharmacy if that is what you want to do.
These threads/posts are not also meant to call you or anyone doing pharmacy idiots as nobody knows your own situations better than you do (maybe pharmacy is the only option for you to get near a doctorate degree and make a bit better than $14 an hour... I could be wrong, but who knows...) Everyone's personal situation is different but the fact is that very few careers/professions that require a commitment of 6-8 yrs and residency + 150K+ student loans... So while you can survive and have a good life as long as the wage is better than $14 an hour doing pharmacy paying all that loans, others like me might not, esp. there are other career choices/paths (computer programming is not the only thing) that could give a better ROI for our time and money investment...
Again, these threads/posts are meant to inform on the saturation problem in pharmacy and exchange ideas on the possible solutions on this saturation problem or alternative career pathways.
But I guess you might still not get the points I am trying to make here... Just saying (correct me if I am wrong ) 🙂
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I don't understand why some of you are trying to sway us from pharmacy school. For some of us it's kind of too late. My resume is built around a career in pharmacy. It's not a bad job, especially if you manage to get a job in a hospital. You might start out having to work in a busy pharmacy, but if you look enough a better job will eventually be available. I plan to work in a hospital myself, and already have worked in 2 hospitals near where I live (and a retail pharmacy). It's not impossible, and yes there are a lot of people going into pharmacy but the same is true with a lot of professions like nursing, and you can even see more med schools opening up.
my spending time on SDN is not the point... not even your business or anyone's business to worry about me spending time on SDN. I have strong opinions and I like to say them when I like...
You have the right to think that I am wrong. If you would like to share why I am wrong, I am all ears...
you may also take things a little seriously. I think the OP was trying to get your attention. He did, didn't he ?? 😉
You have to understand that it is YOU that make the decisions for your life, not anyone else. Nobody is trying to sway you from pharmacy school. Many of us, being pharmacists or pharmacy students, would like to inform the saturation problem in pharmacy and other career possibilities/alternatives. For some, they cannot do anything else but pharmacy, even in the case of the saturation reality. For some, it might be too late to switch. For others, they might be able to do something else that give them a better ROI for their time and money investment.
I think it is excellent that your are building your resume now by working both in retail and hospital pharmacies. You are right: doing so helps you get jobs more easily after graduation. But at the current rate schools opening and expanding and pumping out new grads, wages/salaries are, imho, gonna have to go down, like just a bit more than $14 dollars an hour, who knows... It is just common sense and simple economics. Supply and demand. But even when you already got a job as pharmacist, your job security and wage are threatened when there are thousands of other unemployed pharmacists that are willing to work for even less and employers know this... You might even have to do some residency (even for retail jobs) when you get out of schools a couple of years from now.... Is pharmacy still worth it ?? Again YOU decide.
It is also true that other health professions like nursing are experiencing saturation. There are many discussions about saturation problem, even in medicine, like the one here,
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...could-potentially-happen-in-medicine.1101537/
The point is, we all admit there is saturation in pharmacy. What is your way to deal with this ?? You choose to continue pharmacy by building your resume working both in retail and hospital. Others suggest computers, finance, science PhDs, etc. Let's keep bringing the ideas in so we can all be benefit 🙂
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Seriously? lol then you just enjoy trolling the forum. I've read a number of your posts. You assume you are correct in all things and know what is best (for people other than yourself). You ask other people to prove you wrong but offer little to no justification as to why anyone should listen to your opinion. Mostly, you contradict yourself almost regularly.
you say a lot including accusing me of being a troll but do not want to give a piece of evidence for your accusations. Like I said, I have strong opinions and I believe that I am right when I say it (who doesn't?). If you or anyone think I am wrong, please tell me why and I will listen. Like I contradict myself, how?
But I do not ask you or anyone to listen to me. I already told you that above, didn't I?? I also do not assume what is best for people. In pharmacy forum, I mostly state about the saturation problem and its implication according to my opinions. I have stated time after time that you or anyone are free to do whatever you want, given all the information out there.
So stop saying things that is not true about me or making up things and putting words in my mouth. If you continue doing so, I will consider you a troll and stalker and will respond by simply ignoring your posts !! 🙂
You contradict yourself by saying I can't tell you to "stop posting" about all your negativity and yet you just told me to stop accusing you. Pretty contradictory. I'm done with every word you post. Enjoy whatever endeavor you choose in life, I hope you get really excited about your future and there are lots of people along the way to tell you it's not a GOOD choice, but it's still YOUR choice.
huh ?? lol... I do not know where to begin as this is not worthy of my efforts to explain things to you anymore....
this is sad... because your post here is also a clear evidence of why reading comprehension is so important in most standardized tests...
but please do and say what you like, true or not... I am IGNORING you and your posts from now on...
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Garbage in = garbage out. If you want the best students to enter, the profession itself has to be attractive. As of now, the bright students most likely end up in medicine or other fields...leaving a bunch of losers to apply to pharmacy schools. Because these losers can't compete enough in medicine, dentistry. Sure, there will be people who love pharmacy career but this number is minor. The majority is trying to get in, get out and make $$$ while they ignore/don't care the warnings from working Pharm.Ds that there are not much jobs left...
Sad..
What ever happened to @BMBiology? Another ban?
Exactly, and these "garbage" grads are being hired at places like CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid, and Wal-mart. It doesn't matter what knowledge base they have, as long as they have a license and are cheap labor...
So many new grads I have worked with barely know anything.
Like schools care about their students and the profession. Most only care about the "kwan" lol 😉
To clarify, I do not think everyone that chooses pharmacy is has a low IQ, or stupid. Some are very smart, some were disillusioned, still others actually might like the program.
Those people I am not talking about, but they however are a rare rare handful. Here's the thing; people that arent "smart" enough can get into pharmacy school. A 3.2 is considered competitive. Any one with a 3.0 +/- 0.2 gpa can still get in.= People with high gpas can choose pharmacy or medicine if they wanted. People with mediocre gpas can not. Hence it you are so so, and still want to be some sort of dr, pharmacy is the way to go. Correct me if Im wrong, but the average gpa to get into pharm school is substantially lower than that of dental or medical,
So it's kinda of a moot point to say, pharmacy isn't for stupid people. It's not, but it certainly favors those who couldn't do any other programs.
