Pre rec question

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Truzzi

Truzzi

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When a medical school says that it requires a year of calculus, does that just mean two semesters? Or just the duration of the course? Calculus I, for example, is a 3 credit hour course that lasts a semester. Will I need to take another Calculus course to fulfill the "year" requirement, or does that one class cover it?

I'm just getting a little panicked as I am heading into college. I am taking Calculus I as my only pre rec in my first semester. I am also taking Biology 111, but 112 is the actual pre rec - 111 and 112 are BOTH required for a minor/major. I just worry I won't fit in all of my classes as I need a year of chem, a year of orgo, a year of bio, physics, calc, etc...
 
Damn. By when do people typically finish their prerequisites?
 
People take MCATs at all times of the year...the general consensus is to finish the pre-req's. I'll wait for someone more experienced but most people are done by their junior year (entering senior).
 
I wouldn't worry about fitting in the pre-reqs, many applicants are able to easily handle them in two years (let alone four). Your advisor should be able to provide a rough schedule of the 'pre-med timeline' if you'd like one. Otherwise I've listed the order in which I took the pre-reqs in my MDApps profile, and I survived.
<---
 
Most schools do prereqs based on units, not length of the course. You'll often see "12 quarter units/8 semester units required". So, it depends entirely on how many units your math class is. Although, to be fair, very few schools actually require an entire year of calculus. I know Harvard is one.

As for when you should finish your prereqs, try and finish gchem, bio, ochem, and physics before you take your MCAT junior year. Math isn't included on the MCAT so you can finish that before matriculating/senior year if you want.
 
Out of curiosity, I only have one semester of Calc / Stats...one year of math total. Which schools require 1 yr of calc?
 
The problem is many advisers suck the big one, so although you may luck out, be sure to rely on your own research as well.

Personally in order to relieve as much stress as possible from the admissions process, I think Bio I, Chem I, Calc I + elective are a good first semester. Bio II, Chem II and Calc II + elective are a good second semester. Your first summer is a good time to start looking for NSF funded research projects, working, volunteering etc., additional classes are not necessary in my opinion. Sophmore year I'd do physics I, orgo I first semester and physics II and orgo II second semester. Its a general time line that many people follow, works for some, not for others.

You may want to switch in english for your first year electives to get that ball rolling. At the end of the day you have 2 busy years, especially since you will be volunteering, working, researching, shadowing, etc the whole time. Third year will be focused on MCAT + applications, throw in a summer study abroad during sophomore summer if you can. Senior year is smooth sailing.

Its a hard and busy process, but you're talking medicine here not grade school teacher, just the way it is.
 
pfaction said:
Out of curiosity, I only have one semester of Calc / Stats...one year of math total. Which schools require 1 yr of calc?
Click to expand...

This thread is kind of dated, but it has a decent sized list. If there are any schools on this list that you definitely plan on applying to it would be worth cross-referencing with the MSAR (or preemptively take CalcII 😉).

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235279
 
pfaction said:
Out of curiosity, I only have one semester of Calc / Stats...one year of math total. Which schools require 1 yr of calc?
Click to expand...

There are a few of them, MSAR will be the only definitive way to know 100% if a school you are interested in requires a year of Calc or not.
 
I'm glad to hear a lot of this. My current situation is Calc I + Bio I + three other classes. I tested out of Chem I through my university's placement test which saves me 5 credit hours. Would skipping Chem 103 (Intro. to Chem. principles) and taking Chem 117 (Principles of Chemistry and Biochemistry) irritate medical schools? I ask because I've heard they aren't too fond of people using AP credits for pre recs.
 
Truzzi said:
Would skipping Chem 103 (Intro. to Chem. principles) and taking Chem 117 (Principles of Chemistry and Biochemistry) irritate medical schools? I ask because I've heard they aren't too fond of people using AP credits for pre recs.
Click to expand...

:shrug:, I'd prefer to retake the class if only for the MCAT review (despite the hefty price tag of a 5-credit class). However, I'll defer this one to a more senior member.
 
aSagacious, that's fine. Thanks for your help. I'm actually on a full ride to my flagship school so class fees are taken care of. I'm really just in an utter state of confusion after meeting with my consoler. My school offers, CHEM 103 (Intro to chemical principles), CHEM 117 (Principles of Biochem and chem I), and CHEM 118 (Principles of Biochem and chem II). So I guess I'm confused as to which classes you are referring when you say you took "Chem I," "Chem II," etc.
 
The only thing I'm almost positive of is if you place out of a pre-req, you have to take a higher level. So I think you're doing that.
 
I wouldn't be so sure about that...

If you place out of a prereq you need to verify with the school you are interested in that they will accept the AP credit (which they usually never do) or that a higher level class will satisfy it. Just because you take biochem has no guarantee that you will learn all the details in a university level chem II course.

If it was me I would suggest to take the CHEM course. Especially since I don't know whats going on there to begin with. They are placing you in biochem before taking chem II or the organic sequence? There is something funny going on there...

Maybe the Chem 103 is the precollege level chem course? In which case yeah skip it and take the college level gen. chem I course.

Edit: OK, so after thinking about it maybe its a survey type class in which case your chem 117 offers a intro look into biochem but still covers all the gen chem I nonsense. A surefire way to double check is to simply call almost any med school and ask. You REALLY don't want to be applying for med school and realize you have to cram to meet your prereq requirements.
 
I didn't find very many that even require a semester of Calculus, let alone a year's worth. The only one's I remember off the top of my head were Harvard and VT-Carilion (which doesn't even want a full year).
 
I do believe that Chem 117 is the first pre rec for chemistry, but you must test into it. There is a second inorganic course that must be taken, but it is a 300 level that is usually taken after orgo. I sat down and figured out a tentative pre rec plan, and I am now feeling much better. It looks like this:

Freshman Year:
Fall - MATH-M 211 (calculus), BIOL-L 111
Spring - CHEM-C 117, BIOL-L 122, BIOL-L 113 (labs for 112)

Sophomore Year:
Fall - CHEM-C 341 (orgo :scared: ) and PHYS 201
Spring - CHEM 342, 343 (ORGO II + labs) and PHYS 202

Junior Year:
Fall - CHEM-N 330 (Inorganic) and MATH-M 212 (calc II)
Spring - BIOL-L 211

I think that covers just about everything! One year of general chem, one year of organic chem, one year of physics, one year of calculus, and one year of biology! Sprinkle in some languages/humanities/crazy electives and I'm golden! What do you think?
 
Anyone?? I may take one or two of them in the summer.
 
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That looks like a reasonable schedule. I am confused on one point though. Does your school tackle general chemistry in one semester? I know you mentioned a second 300-level inorganic chemistry but that is not equivalent to gen-chem-II.
 
To be honest calculus isn't that bad, in fact the hard part about calculus is general not the calculus, but the algebra and setting up the problem properly.

As for the other pre-reqs, don't worry to much, you can do it as lots of people can do it. In fact, if you are in a life science major (or even minor in some cases), most of the classes you take will cover the required pre-reqs at most school (not including the ones that require biochem, stats, other math like diff. eq or stats). So talk to your major adviser (not pre-med) about how to fit in one year of bio, chem, ochem, physics and math, English. And its really not too bad.

Since you put up your schedule I'll put up mine and what I did. And pre-reqs in bold

Freshman Year:
Fall: Bio I+Lab,Chem I+Lab, Calc III, Diff Eq, English II
Spring: Bio II+Lab,Chem II+Lab, English II, Chinese II

Soph.
Fall: Ochem I+Lab, Phys w/ calc I+lab, Gen. ed, Chinese III
Spring: Ochem II+Lab, Phys w/ calc II+lab, Gen ed. Chinese IIII

All the while I was working in the lab/volunteering.

And that should cover most if not all the basic science pre-reqs IIRC. But, I'm a little crazy so you can spread it out over onto a third year if you have too.
 
How many schools require biochem? And also, are there many schools that REQUIRE math classes other than calculus? I guess I've always just assumed that two semesters on calculus should do the trick at most places.

As far as the chemistry at my school, there is a 103 class that is essentially equivalent to a more intense version of high school chemistry. They make everyone take the placement test and if you test out, you go straight to CHEM-C 117. Then, after orgo, you take CHEM-N 330. Therefore, if you are week in chemistry, you will have taken 3 semesters (about 1.5 years) of chemistry; the rest will have taken the typical one year.
 
Truzzi said:
How many schools require biochem? And also, are there many schools that REQUIRE math classes other than calculus? I guess I've always just assumed that two semesters on calculus should do the trick at most places.

As far as the chemistry at my school, there is a 103 class that is essentially equivalent to a more intense version of high school chemistry. They make everyone take the placement test and if you test out, you go straight to CHEM-C 117. Then, after orgo, you take CHEM-N 330. Therefore, if you are week in chemistry, you will have taken 3 semesters (about 1.5 years) of chemistry; the rest will have taken the typical one year.
Click to expand...
JHU requires Biochem now. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/bin/y/x/20110505_Revised_Course Requirements_2012.pdf
 
0kazak1 said:
To be honest calculus isn't that bad, in fact the hard part about calculus is general not the calculus, but the algebra and setting up the problem properly.

As for the other pre-reqs, don't worry to much, you can do it as lots of people can do it. In fact, if you are in a life science major (or even minor in some cases), most of the classes you take will cover the required pre-reqs at most school (not including the ones that require biochem, stats, other math like diff. eq or stats). So talk to your major adviser (not pre-med) about how to fit in one year of bio, chem, ochem, physics and math, English. And its really not too bad.

Since you put up your schedule I'll put up mine and what I did. And pre-reqs in bold

Freshman Year:
Fall: Bio I+Lab,Chem I+Lab, Calc III, Diff Eq, English II
Spring: Bio II+Lab,Chem II+Lab, English II, Chinese II

Soph.
Fall: Ochem I+Lab, Phys w/ calc I+lab, Gen. ed, Chinese III
Spring: Ochem II+Lab, Phys w/ calc II+lab, Gen ed. Chinese IIII

All the while I was working in the lab/volunteering.

And that should cover most if not all the basic science pre-reqs IIRC. But, I'm a little crazy so you can spread it out over onto a third year if you have too.
Click to expand...

I dislike you for doing what I wish I did.
 
Thank you for that link aSagacious - super helpful!

I guess I have one final question, however. For some of those higher level science courses that will not have a wealth of material featured on the MCAT, would it be wise to take some of them senior year? In other words, could I apply without having completed ALL of them yet? For example, Harvard "strongly recommends biochemistry, genetics, and microbiology. Could I take genetics and microbiology spring semester of senior year and be ok?
 
Truzzi said:
For some of those higher level science courses that will not have a wealth of material featured on the MCAT, would it be wise to take some of them senior year? In other words, could I apply without having completed ALL of them yet? For example, Harvard "strongly recommends biochemistry, genetics, and microbiology. Could I take genetics and microbiology spring semester of senior year and be ok?
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be fine for the required classes. However, you could adopt the notion that the schools might want to see how you do in the 'strongly recommended' classes in order to compare you apples-to-apples with other candidates (this is just speculation though).
 
Yes, I could see how that could become a problem. There are just so many classes to take! I won't have room for anything else at this rate. Ah, the life of a premed.

I'll probably take two prerequisites in one summer to free things up a bit. From what I've heard, the only thing med schools don't like about summer prereqs is that they can't see how well you handle a heavy work load. By taking two classes in the same summer (so about 10 hours) whilst volunteering/shadowing, I hope they'll see that I can, indeed, manage a tight schedule.

Also, thank you all so much for helping me work through this; your advice is greatly appreciated. As this is the first real question I've posed on sdn, I'm blown away by how helpful you all are.
 
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Truzzi said:
I'll probably take two prerequisites in one summer to free things up a bit. From what I've heard, the only thing med schools don't like about summer prereqs is that they can't see how well you handle a heavy work load. By taking two classes in the same summer (so about 10 hours) whilst volunteering/shadowing, I hope they'll see that I can, indeed, manage a tight schedule.
Click to expand...

A 'heavy work load' needn't be coursework alone. This also includes employment, extracurricular activities, other commitments, etc. Just stay busy and you'll be fine.
 
Truzzi said:
I do believe that Chem 117 is the first pre rec for chemistry, but you must test into it. There is a second inorganic course that must be taken, but it is a 300 level that is usually taken after orgo. I sat down and figured out a tentative pre rec plan, and I am now feeling much better. It looks like this:

Freshman Year:
Fall - MATH-M 211 (calculus), BIOL-L 111
Spring - CHEM-C 117, BIOL-L 122, BIOL-L 113 (labs for 112)

Sophomore Year:
Fall - CHEM-C 341 (orgo :scared: ) and PHYS 201
Spring - CHEM 342, 343 (ORGO II + labs) and PHYS 202

Junior Year:
Fall - CHEM-N 330 (Inorganic) and MATH-M 212 (calc II)
Spring - BIOL-L 211

I think that covers just about everything! One year of general chem, one year of organic chem, one year of physics, one year of calculus, and one year of biology! Sprinkle in some languages/humanities/crazy electives and I'm golden! What do you think?
Click to expand...
You need CHM 118 in there, that's your school's equivalent of Chem II, based on your description earlier.

I would personally replace Calc II with Statistics. More and more schools are putting it into the 'highly recommended' category and I've seen talk of Stats being part of the next version of the MCAT (which is currently due to roll out 2015, so you may or may not see it, depending on your decision to gap year/retake in the future). Plus its actually pretty interesting to be able to see poll results in the news and such and interpret them for real rather than relying on what the blurb under them says.
 
NightGod said:
You need CHM 118 in there, that's your school's equivalent of Chem II, based on your description earlier.
Click to expand...
+1

NightGod said:
I would personally replace Calc II with Statistics. More and more schools are putting it into the 'highly recommended' category and I've seen talk of Stats being part of the next version of the MCAT (which is currently due to roll out 2015, so you may or may not see it, depending on your decision to gap year/retake in the future).
Click to expand...
I took both and didn't regret it. Calc II is occassionally (albeit rarely) useful and shows that you can handle tough courses. Now that I've started reading primary literature (scientific publications) regularly I use stats all the time.
 
The reason I am is confused is because of this link here:
http://www.hpplc.indiana.edu/medicine/med-cw.shtml

That really makes it seems like CHEM-N 330 is my school's equivalent of Chem II. As for stats, I'll probably try to squeeze that in there sometime too. At this point, I'm trying to figure out when I will have time to breathe.
 
That link says "The Indiana University School of Medicine will accept CHEM-C 118 in place of CHEM-N 330." Sounds like 330 is a more advanced class since you are recommended to take both O-Chems before taking it, maybe the equivalent of P-Chem at other schools?
 
It then says, "However, the IUB Department of Chemistry and HPPLC strongly recommend all premed students complete CHEM-N 330 instead of CHEM-C 118 to meet the general/inorganic requirements for admission to medical schools."

I think that CHEM-N 330 is the encouraged CHEM II at my school. I think I'll take it junior year, or the summer before.
 
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