Pre-requisite problems- Who's been there?

[Sterno]

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I've been trying to complete some medical school prerequisites, but I've been having some trouble managing my coursework and I need some real advice from people who may have been through the same thing themselves.

In the past, I took, or rather, tried to take some pre-reqs, but didn't complete the courses or had trouble in them and gave up. At that point I didn't really have any direction career-wise- I wasn't committed.

This past year I have been taking classes, and during fall term I was able to complete the term and I did fine grade wise. However, I have had a lot of trouble balancing work, school, and parenting during winter term. I was taking 12 credits (math, 300 level anatomy, an intensive technical writing class) and I realized last week that there was no way I could get at least a "B" in my anatomy class, and that I probably couldn't pass my math class either. Even though I was spending ALL of my non-work and non class time studying, I was falling behind on my studying. I just wasn't going to be able to complete all the courses and do well, and I wouldn't have a good enough grasp on my math (even if I did pass) to do well in the next course and not have a lot of trouble when I take chemistry. I will get an "A" in my writing class- this class has not been a problem for me at all.

So I am starting to feel like a real failure. I imagine an adcom looking at my transcript and thinking that I look like a real flake. I can't quit working to go to school full-time, as I am the breadwinner for the family while my husband is in engineering school. I am also a parent of young teenagers, so I have some responsibilities in this area as well. Waiting till my husband is done with school isn't a good option either, because I am over 30; time is running out.

I think that I am capable of doing well in the the prerequisites. When I was completing my bachelors degree, I did well in all my classes. My GPA is somewhere around 3.5-ish (though my guess is it would be around 3.2 when calculated by AMCAS) . I don't think intelligence is the issue for me.

What should I do? I need to do well grade-wise, and I need to understand the concepts well enough to get a good score when I take the MCAT. Should I take only one or two classes at a time until I am consistently getting good grades? Should I give up and go to nursing school? I really appreciate any advice offered here.

Thanks!

 

[Five0tomed68]

In the past, I took, or rather, tried to take some pre-reqs, but didn't complete the courses or had trouble in them and gave up. At that point I didn't really have any direction career-wise- I wasn't committed.

If this situation led to Ws, your going to need to explain these during your app cycle. I don't say that to discourage you, but for you to anticipate it.

........Should I take only one or two classes at a time until I am consistently getting good grades? Should I give up and go to nursing school? I really appreciate any advice offered here.

Thanks!

If you really want to be a physician, then you will more than likely regret "settling" on nursing. Your husband is in engineering school. How long does he have left? When he finishes, you can probably switch roles. He becomes the breadwinner and you focus more on school. There is no need to rush it.

Say you go into nursing, but it doesn't satiate the role you want to play. Then you will be back at square one several years down the road posting on SDN about getting ready to start taking your med school pre-reqs for you 2020 app cycle.

If being a physician is your true path, then figure out a way to make it work. Whether it be slow down (not sure of your background, but if you haven't taken a full science course load, you may want/need to before you apply), or put your ambitions off until your husband finishes school. I know you said it is not an option, but people have started medical school well in there 30s and older.

I'm in the same boat. I work full time, my wife and I have 2 kids (12 & 5 playing year round sports) and she is a pathology resident. She is currently on her surg. path rotation and has been working insane hours. The other rotations haven't been that bad averaging 65 hrs. or so a week.

I'm going to ease into pre-req's probably next spring. I don't plan on applying for another 5 yrs. or so (planning around where she might end up an attending). I'll be a little over 35.

 

[heartsink]

There seems to be a disconnect I'm not understanding here; you say you're spending -every- waking hour studying when you're not being a parent or working or at class and still struggling this much. How much time is that in reality? 10 hours a week? 30 hours a week of studying getting you nowhere?

If it's some abysmally small amount of time left to you, now may not be a good period to do prereqs as an earlier poster said.

If however you feel like you can spend 20-30 hours a week on a anatomy and math class and still can't cut it, something is qualitatively flawed with how you're studying. It means you're either distracted, taking too many breaks, or maybe in a poor environment for studying (music and coffee shops are HORRIBLE for me, for instance). See what you can do about making that time more productive in that case.

 

[68PGunner]

Everyone ability is different.

I would recommend taking just two classes instead of three and ease your way into a harder schedule. You need As in your classes. Anything else is a failure.

I will just give you an example. I normally run about 5-7 miles for every workout. However, I injured my hip and just recently got better. Today, I went to the gym after doing nothing for 2-3 weeks. Do you think that I ran 5-6 on my first day back? No. I ran a mile under 6:20, did some biking for another 15 mins, and called it a day.

Also, you need to be more efficient in your studying. My advice is to base your study on the study guide and read all lecture notes. Normally, you are covered for about 95% of the quests based on this technique. The text is a reference and nothing more.

 

[heartsink]

Normally, you are covered for about 95% of the quests based on this technique. The text is a reference and nothing more.

I don't know if you're referring specifically to anatomy and math for the OP but this is definitely not a hard and fast rule for everything.

The vast majority of what I learned in physics, for example, came from hours of quality time with my textbook, reading and doing practice problems, while the prof lecture was assuming we had read and mostly was a fast review. People who depended entirely on her lecture drowned in that class

 

[Elizabethx89]

I don't know if you're referring specifically to anatomy and math for the OP but this is definitely not a hard and fast rule for everything.

The vast majority of what I learned in physics, for example, came from hours of quality time with my textbook, reading and doing practice problems, while the prof lecture was assuming we had read and mostly was a fast review. People who depended entirely on her lecture drowned in that class

^^ That. I made over 100 on every single exam in my bio 1 class, while the vast majority of the class was failing every exam. Every time a student would complain that the exams were too difficult, the professor's response was that he knew his tests were doable because there was someone in the class who kept scoring over 100 on them. What was the difference between me and the other students? I used the book to teach myself the material. The lecture was useless.

My chemistry and genetics classes are going about the same. Our class performed so poorly on our first genetics exam than the professor had another professor from within the biology department come in and scold us. I had an A on the exam (albeit a low A; it was a difficult exam no matter what way you spun it) because I used the book extensively in my test prep.

Have there been classes where I never had to crack a textbook? Yes. Can the average student get by in EVERY course without thoroughly reading and comprehending the textbook? Maybe if his or her only goal is to make above a D in every class.

 

[edgerock24]

Textbooks are not for everyone. Some people learn better from visual resources (i.e. Youtube videos [Chad, Khan, Freelance]).

@Sterno, a couple of things:
1) You should only be taking 2 classes a semester.
2) Why are you taking a math class? I'm guessing you need it to take physics?
3) Why are you taking anatomy... at all? It is a waste of time for a nontrad who doesn't want to prolong their journey. It is not a prerequisite for any medical school.
4) Take your next set of classes at a community college. Generally speaking, the classes may be easier. Also, you should search ratemyprofessor before registering for courses and attempt to find the easiest professor. On your transcript, it will not say "A from easy professor."

 

[Rocketdog]

Since I practically live on this site (daily) I have something to offer the OP. First a little back story......readers digest version: Started A LONG TIME AGO (1993) taking classes at a CC and medicine wasn't even on the radar screen then. Fast forward to 2004, took classes toward a degree at an Ivy league school. My non-science grades were A- and B+ until I ATTEMPTED CHEM I....complete failure!....I made it to balancing equations and BOMBED...my chinese vcr instructions first exam! Went to the volunteer session at a local Boston area hospital and felt even worse after hearing what an awesome responsibility being a Physician is all about. I left school (dropped out) and worked for the next 10 years.

Every day for the last 10 years I've lived with the regret of not becoming something I KNOW I'm destined to do! Funny motivator regret is....so I decided to make some much needed changes. I identified what was causing my failure in CHEM I.....and removed that element (pun intended) from my life. Armed with a new found arsenal of weapons to battle my "less than perfect" imperfections, I'm happy to share I'm well on my way to medical school.

Sometimes we need coaching. Sometimes we need motivation. For me the regret is worse than anything. Sometimes we (pre med students) like to think were bullet proof! We take the hardest academic classes offered and master them. We delve deep into our past and are (sometimes) forced to confront our weaknesses.

I applaud your decision to become a Physician. Once you have resolved that NOTHING will stand in your way, charge on! Remove people from your life who do not offer you encouragement. You CAN do this.

There are some very valuable opinions in the above responses. Remember to study in a quality environment. Five hours studying in a distracting environment will yield you less results than 1.5 hours of quality study.

The only real failure is to quit. Believe me, I lived that nightmare for a decade and you don't want it!

Imagine your family's faces when they see your name as Dr. ________M.D or D.O............imagine the immense pride and personal satisfaction you will feel treating your patients.

You're going to make a great Doctor!

 

[Elizabethx89]

Textbooks are not for everyone. Some people learn better from visual resources (i.e. Youtube videos [Chad, Khan, Freelance]).

I agree with this. I don't think reading the textbook is the ONLY way to make sense of poorly presented lecture material. I was moreso responding to the assertion that anyone who reads the book is an inefficient studier since a textbook is a reference material and nothing more, while one is always covered for 95% of test questions by studying lecture notes.

 

[Rocketdog]

Another quick note:

because I am over 30; time is running out

You have plenty of TIME. I'm 45 and feel great!

There have been several discussions about non-trads. Some good, some less than desirable. Remember: For every older non-trad struggling with prerequisites, there is a successful well seasoned resident excited about his/her future.............regardless of age.

 

[Lollygag]

Textbooks are not for everyone. Some people learn better from visual resources (i.e. Youtube videos [Chad, Khan, Freelance]).

@Sterno, a couple of things:
1) You should only be taking 2 classes a semester.
2) Why are you taking a math class? I'm guessing you need it to take physics?
3) Why are you taking anatomy... at all? It is a waste of time for a nontrad who doesn't want to prolong their journey. It is not a prerequisite for any medical school.
4) Take your next set of classes at a community college. Generally speaking, the classes may be easier. Also, you should search ratemyprofessor before registering for courses and attempt to find the easiest professor. On your transcript, it will not say "A from easy professor."

Completely agree with the above, especially with the anatomy don't take any classes that are not prerequisites unless you have no way of getting out of it i.e. it's a prerequisite for Physics or Math etc. The only reason I would say to do that is if after taking the perquisites, your GPA is still really low and you need some extra classes to boost it. In which case you should take some "easier" science classes, anatomy is usually not one of those; at least not in my experience but it can vary by school.

Pardon my lack of knowledge on how engineering school works, but does your husband have summers off? Could he take on some of the work load/family duties in the summer while he is off for school so that you can focus a bit more? Maybe you could keep it very light during the fall and spring and then kick it up a notch in the summer (or winter sessions if offered) while your husband is home.

I know you don't want to wait until your husband graduates but if you think about it, once he graduates then you could literally quit your job (right? lol) while he's working. Assuming this is a full time job, that's 40 extra hours a week. You could manage 15+ credits with that kind of time and with summer classes and careful structuring depending on how many pre-reqs you've done at this point, you might be able to bang that out in a year. I think it might be worth waiting. And as far as age goes, I'd only be a little concerned if you were interested in a specialty with a 6+ year residency because between taking pre-reqs, applying, attending med school and then finishing residency you could be looking at 13+ years before you're a doctor. Other than that, I think waiting is your best option.

 

[Elizabethx89]

I see several people advising the OP against taking anatomy and other non-pre-req classes on here. However, when I posted about my advisor telling me that I stood a low chance at doing well on the MCAT if I didn't take courses such as A&P and cell structure, numerous people told me that they DID take those classes for that reason. So is it a good idea to take them or not?

 

[Lollygag]

I see several people advising the OP against taking anatomy and other non-pre-req classes on here. However, when I posted about my advisor telling me that I stood a low chance at doing well on the MCAT if I didn't take courses such as A&P and cell structure, numerous people told me that they DID take those classes for that reason. So is it a good idea to take them or not?

People are advising the OP not to take A&P because their situation is time sensitive and they have other commitment such as a full time job and a family to take care of, so A&P is not *necessary*. But if you are an undergrad without those type of commitments and you have a lot more flexibility as far as what classes you can take, then nothing is wrong with taking.

But I will say that not taking A&P would not hurt you on the MCAT. (Not sure about the new one) I'm sure it might help but there's nothing on the MCAT bio that you didn't learn in general bio 1 and 2

 

[Elizabethx89]

People are advising the OP not to take A&P because their situation is time sensitive and they have other commitment such as a full time job and a family to take care of, so A&P is not *necessary*. But if you are an undergrad without those type of commitments and you have a lot more flexibility as far as what classes you can take, then nothing is wrong with taking.

But I will say that not taking A&P would not hurt you on the MCAT. (Not sure about the new one) I'm sure it might help but there's nothing on the MCAT bio that you didn't learn in general bio 1 and 2

I get that there's nothing wrong with taking them as a fairly commitment-free undergrad. That's not my situation, though, and posters, as well as my advisor, told me it was pretty crucial to take it. I have noticed that there's quite a bit of material in my Kaplan MCAT Bio review book that we never touched on in bio 1 and 2.

Thanks for clarifying. 🙂

 

[Sterno]

Thank you so much everyone for your responses! It is very helpful to get some perspective from other non-trads.

Also, you need to be more efficient in your studying. My advice is to base your study on the study guide and read all lecture notes. Normally, you are covered for about 95% of the quests based on this technique. The text is a reference and nothing more.

This might be part of the problem. My anatomy class has NO study guide. The prof lectures for about 2 hours and then we're on our own. There are no power points either. He's pretty old school. Doing well on his tests required reading the textbook. Yes, this takes forever!

@Sterno, a couple of things:
1) You should only be taking 2 classes a semester.
2) Why are you taking a math class? I'm guessing you need it to take physics?
3) Why are you taking anatomy... at all? It is a waste of time for a nontrad who doesn't want to prolong their journey. It is not a prerequisite for any medical school.
4) Take your next set of classes at a community college. Generally speaking, the classes may be easier. Also, you should search ratemyprofessor before registering for courses and attempt to find the easiest professor. On your transcript, it will not say "A from easy professor."

1) Yes, it certainly looks like I should not take more than 2 classes. I need to be honest with myself-- I just can't hack it yet. My degree was in english, so my science and math background is limited to a year of 100 level biology that I took 8 years ago.
2)Why am I taking math? My math background is limited to one year of pre-algebra in high school (so WAY back!) and an algebra class I took during Fall term. As you can see, I am not quite up to the level of math needed to do well in 200 level chemistry.
3)Ok, so anatomy.... I'm taking this for two reasons. One, I heard it would be helpful for MCAT studying if I didn't have to learn all the concepts on my own, and two, my husband really wants me to have a fall-back plan in case medical school isn't obtainable.
4) Errg, community college.... So I LOVE my university, and I find that the classes here demand less "busy work" of students. I do read ratemyprofessor but of course I have very little choice in which section of a class I take because I work.

Pardon my lack of knowledge on how engineering school works, but does your husband have summers off? Could he take on some of the work load/family duties in the summer while he is off for school so that you can focus a bit more? Maybe you could keep it very light during the fall and spring and then kick it up a notch in the summer (or winter sessions if offered) while your husband is home.

I wish this were an option, but unfortunately isn't. I would loose my job, which I really need to keep, and he probably wouldn't be able to find a job that pays anywhere near what I make-- not that I'm raking it in or anything. We are just comfortable with some help from his parents.

I know you don't want to wait until your husband graduates but if you think about it, once he graduates then you could literally quit your job (right? lol) while he's working. Assuming this is a full time job, that's 40 extra hours a week. You could manage 15+ credits with that kind of time and with summer classes and careful structuring depending on how many pre-reqs you've done at this point, you might be able to bang that out in a year. I think it might be worth waiting. And as far as age goes, I'd only be a little concerned if you were interested in a specialty with a 6+ year residency because between taking pre-reqs, applying, attending med school and then finishing residency you could be looking at 13+ years before you're a doctor. Other than that, I think waiting is your best option.

I feel like I have already been waiting! Until just recently I could not even afford to go to school, since I don't qualify for financial aid for my post-bac. I don't think it is a matter of impatience, but genuine concern that I am behind where I should be in my basic science and math. Also, I think I would feel worse about myself and my situation if I wasn't taking any classes and working toward my goal.

 

[68PGunner]

Thank you so much everyone for your responses! It is very helpful to get some perspective from other non-trads.



This might be part of the problem. My anatomy class has NO study guide. The prof lectures for about 2 hours and then we're on our own. There are no power points either. He's pretty old school. Doing well on his tests required reading the textbook. Yes, this takes forever!

He's not old school. He's straight up a bad professor who doesn't want to do his job. This is why you need to talk to your peers and read the professor's reviews before taking a class. How can a professor explains anatomy and physiology without using ppt, pics, and videos? He's just lazy.

Everyone learns differently. However, you need to prioritize certain things with limited time especially when you are studying for an exam. You can certainly read through over 100 pages of textbook before every exam. However, I find that to be a waste of time because normally most science textbooks are full of nonsense with some taking 15-20 pages to explain certain concepts that can be explained in 1-2 pages of diagram. For each exam, I would focus on key concepts. Usually, for every chapter of a textbook, there should be a guideline at the end stating the main points. If time is limited, I would focus on learning all the main points first.

I think you need to find out your most effective style of learning. It took me a while to figure this out myself. For me, I focus more on the key concepts and the mechanics. For classes like Physics, I would do a few problems. If I feel I have a good grasp of the material after working through those problems, I move on. For classes like Anatomy and Physiology, I should be able to explain the mechanics step-by-step to a friend. There are some lessons in which you just need to straight up memorize certain things. You can't help with those. However, for a class like Anatomy and Physiology, some of the terms pretty much tell you their meanings especially if you break it down.

What parts of A&P are you having trouble with? I just finished A&P I with an average of 103%. I consistently destroyed the curve on every exam. My peers thought I was putting in a lot of work for that class after seeing my results. The truth is that I'm just more efficient than most students. I have 50 hour regular job along with a family at home. I can't afford to study everything in the textbook.

 

[Sterno]

68PGunner, what I am having trouble with is covering the material throughly enough to feel confident going into the tests. I got behind on my study schedule for the midterm, and then left myself with only a week to study three chapters on heart physiology. The concepts presented in A&P are not any more complex than what I learned in my 100 level bio class, and the tests are pretty memorization heavy.

Your suggestion about reading the main points at the end of the chapter is a good idea. My only concern is that it is not detailed enough? I had been reading through the chapters and making notecards on everything that seemed relevant.

 

[68PGunner]

Sterno,

In your situation, I would recommend creating a study group for reviewing the materials before the test. This doesn't not mean that you guys will meet and study together. I find group studying to be a waste of time. Everyone is responsible for their own materials.

Rather, it's nice to get a few people together before an exam and just shoot off possible test questions. I think you will cover some of your deficiencies through this method.

When you do form your study group, you need to study with people who are doing well in the class. You will probably learn a thing or two from them.