Pre-Vet or Equine Studies?

[Kitroen]

I'm really interested in becoming a Vet; I ahve been since I've been 3 years old. But I love horses very much, and I want to go to School in Massachusetts. There aren't many colleges with a Pre-Vet program in MA, so my Guidance Counselor suggested I look into Equine Studies. Equine Studies sounds really interesting because I would love to have a farm and raise and breed horses, but you can't very well do that when you're a Vet, there wouldn't be enough time, right? So I'm pretty stuck here. Are there any colleges in MA or Rhode Island that offer Pre-Vet and or Equine Studies? And is it possible to major in one and minor in the other? I was thinking of maybe getting my D.V.M. and then just having a farm, but that isn't very practical now is it? Now I have so many questions coming to mind that I can't remember them... ^^; But lets start with these questions for now, yes?

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[AuburnPreVet]

Someone else will be better equipped to answer your other questions however, I was once told by a vet school faculty member that the vet school admissions commities don't care for equine science majors because that is "too focused" - they apparently like you to have a more broad scope at the undergrad level (something like Bio, or Animal Science). . . Honestly, I think as long as you meet the pre-reqs for vet school with great grades and a ton of experience I really don't think it matters which track you pick - most of the difficult classes (physics, chems, etc) will be taken either way since they are pre-reqs. . who knows.?

Nick

 

[Moonpaw]

While a decent school in general is a necessity, by no means do you need to go to school with a "pre-vet program" in order to go to vet school. My school has no pre-vet program of any sort, and there have been people who get into vet school. Depending on the pre-vet program, it may be helpful, but by no means is it necessary.

Are you sure you want to be a vet if you just want to have a horse farm? You can become an equine vet and work exclusively on horses if you so choose, but the whole point of going to vet school and becoming a vet is to actually be a vet and practice veterinary medicine in some capacity, or use what learned in vet school.

Think about what it is you really want to do with your life, and then base your education on that. If it turns out that you change your mind, that's fine--you can always transfer later. And don't feel shy about calling/talking to people who are in the field you're interested in. The best way to figure out what you want to do is to actually do it.

 

[Orthonut]

You can have a wonderful life rasing horses as a DVM, just because you are a DVM and raise horses doesn't mean that you have to be an equine DVM.

That said I'd not get an equine studies degree-you can't really DO anything with that. I would look instead at an animal science or agriculture degree. With those, if you don't get into vet school, you can still transition into an animal related career. with equine studies, you're really limited-which sucks in a down economy. With an animal sci or ag degree-we're always going to need those people, they help with the food supply (oversimplified, gotta run to lab, more later)

 

[PAThbrd]

I just finished my BS in Equine Science last year with minors in Chem and Bio. I do not feel limited by my choice of major (as opposed to animal science) and could go into anything (were I not in vet school) from working on the farm to lab work to veterinary pharmaceuticals, etc, especially having the science background to back me up. I also don't feel that the ad coms looked down on my choice, especially because I had varied experience to back me up in other aspects of the profession (ie small animal, research). Personally I feel that my degree made a very strong declaration of my intentions and since we're kinda LA short in the country, it couldn't hurt that much.

At my undergrad school there were many equine majors and they went into fields such as farm loans specialists (banking), sales reps, breeding farm managers, riding instructors, therapeutics (both physical and mental), vet school, grad programs (repro, nutrition, animal science, etc.), and some went on to do journalism (ie for The BloodHorse) or even to law school to specialize in equine law. A degree in Equine Science/Studies does not, in my opinion, drastically limit you in your further career choices, at least any more than an animal science or a similar degree would. And I don't see the horse industry, especially the Thoroughbred industry, crashing to a level any time in the foreseeable future that would prevent someone with a degree (and the practical experience to back it up) from getting a job somewhere.

That being said, make sure whether you are animal science or equine science that you have the strong core sciences to back you up. Ag degrees kinda have a reputation of skimming through the easiest science courses which the ad coms dont appreciate.

Sorry this is kinda jumbled and rambling, thats the frame my brain is in at the moment since we have our first huge biochem test tomorrow! I just felt the need to defend my degree

 

[Orthonut]

Sorry this is kinda jumbled and rambling, thats the frame my brain is in at the moment since we have our first huge biochem test tomorrow! I just felt the need to defend my degree

no need-the point is, you had MINORS in 'real science' subjects-that you could rely on in an emergency.

Case in point: I was herd health manager on a med-large racehorse breeding operation on the East Coast. We had someone come in with a BS in equine science. No minors. Guess what he/she did? Yep. Cleaned stalls. Took 4 years to find a job, and he/she had to settle for one that you could really do IN highschool, let alone right out of high school. This person was not the only employee at the farm with such an educational background, in such a job position. A large part of the problem was lack of other education (chem, etc) and lack of depth AND breadth (you know, you could get an equine science degree and never be exposed to anything but h/j IHSA type stuff and the basic feeding, mgmt etc classes...not that that is a smart thing to do but it's possible. the schools don't require breadth)

Doooooooon't limit yourself. Explore all your options. I highly advise against getting an equine only degree. Get a minor in something if you're going to go equine science-and for goodness sake, get some breadth and depth. And do multiple externships and an internship. It'll help you get your job.

You need to have a backup plan for what if...what if you don't get in to vet school? You need to be able to use your degree. There are thousands (yes, thousands) of people out there studying 'equine science' and many more that want to work at the breeding farms, at the clinics, at the training centers, and tracks, and magazines-YOU need to stand out (like PAThbrd!)

If you're thinking you want to do prevet, some schools won't let you take the equine minor/major-OSU comes to mind.

Equine science is great, but it's not all fun and games and foals and roses.

btw "You" doesn't refer only to the OP, it's to anyone reading this, thinking of equine science.

 

[julieDVM]

... since we're kinda LA short in the country, it couldn't hurt that much.

i agree 100% with this point.

 

[PAThbrd]

equine science degree and never be exposed to anything but h/j IHSA type stuff and the basic feeding, mgmt etc classes...not that that is a smart thing to do but it's possible. the schools don't require breadth

I think it really depends on the school/program. A BA in Equine Studies is the basic "this is a horse farm" stuff. A BS in Equine Science, at least in my program, includes the Bio, Chem, OChem, Genetics, Physics, Anat and Phys, so really my minor were achieved with only a class or two beyond the degree requirements. That being said, I really feel like I could rely on my degree (regardless of my minors) to do something beyond cleaning stalls. Along similar lines, I would highly recommend looking into the classes that are acutally required for any degree to see if its a real curriculum or just a bunch a fluff with a good name.

 

[are_jay]

I think it really depends on the school/program. A BA in Equine Studies is the basic "this is a horse farm" stuff. A BS in Equine Science, at least in my program, includes the Bio, Chem, OChem, Genetics, Physics, Anat and Phys, so really my minor were achieved with only a class or two beyond the degree requirements. That being said, I really feel like I could rely on my degree (regardless of my minors) to do something beyond cleaning stalls. Along similar lines, I would highly recommend looking into the classes that are acutally required for any degree to see if its a real curriculum or just a bunch a fluff with a good name.

A couple of years ago I would have totally agreed with the equine science vs. studies part (and for the most part it is still true). ...but I know at CSU, which used to have a great science-based equine science program (one could get a science option which took care of pre-vet requirements) they moved to an industry-based program because that's what folks in the industry said they wanted (duh). so now one must double major (or minor) with the new biomedical sciences major in order to be strong in science/phys/anatomy. That said, I would take a critical look the the curriculum at any school when considering an equine-anything program (or any program, really). When I started looking, way back when, most of the equine _studies_ programs were about being a riding instructor or barn manager, and the "equine options" in animal sciences departments were jokes. Oh and I met more unemployed equine science majors than any other major when I was in CO. Ok for 2nd major, but too specific on its own IMO.

 

[Orthonut]

Agree 110% with both what PAThbrd and are jay said.

I think PA&I are saying the same thing, but in a different language lol.

Bottom line:it's not a bad idea, but don't just take it from the surface value, investigate. Now where'd I put that nutrition textbook...

oh and, this is kind of off the subject, but does anyone know how to get my dad to stop emailing me asking silly things like "how do I get (insert name of baby horse here) to let me put her halter on?" I mean, the man has been handling foals for oh 27 years or so. He knows this damline. I send one or two emails a term saying essentially the same thing "Dad, don't you remember when Celeste was a foal? Remember how she used to throw those tantrums, etc etc etc. You can't just walk up to one of those foals and shove the halter in their face, you have to walk up from the side, scratch the neck, put the lead around them and then come up from the bottom/behind their face, sneaky like and in one fast, smooth motion." Then I get the same reply "Oh yeah, I remember, I just thought you know, you might know some trick" and I reply "dad, I'm 5700 miles away on an island in the middle of the caribbean sea. You see these foals every day, all day, I'm the one that should ask you for tips" I mean, the man is a wonderful handler, but sheesh! the emails! they're taking over my inbox!

(thanks for the vent)

 

[PAThbrd]

oh and, this is kind of off the subject, but does anyone know how to get my dad to stop emailing me asking silly things like "how do I get (insert name of baby horse here) to let me put her halter on?" I mean, the man has been handling foals for oh 27 years or so. He knows this damline. I send one or two emails a term saying essentially the same thing "Dad, don't you remember when Celeste was a foal? Remember how she used to throw those tantrums, etc etc etc. You can't just walk up to one of those foals and shove the halter in their face, you have to walk up from the side, scratch the neck, put the lead around them and then come up from the bottom/behind their face, sneaky like and in one fast, smooth motion." Then I get the same reply "Oh yeah, I remember, I just thought you know, you might know some trick" and I reply "dad, I'm 5700 miles away on an island in the middle of the caribbean sea. You see these foals every day, all day, I'm the one that should ask you for tips" I mean, the man is a wonderful handler, but sheesh! the emails! they're taking over my inbox!

(thanks for the vent)

hehe, babies are funny! Except when they are healthy but in the clinic cuz moms sick and they start kicking you whenever you go near mom cuz its a fun game and there is nothing else to do in a stupid stall!

another vent.

 

[UKYWildcat]

hehe, babies are funny! Except when they are healthy but in the clinic cuz moms sick and they start kicking you whenever you go near mom cuz its a fun game and there is nothing else to do in a stupid stall!

another vent.

or when they come in with their TB or STB mom that never gets touched other than when she's bred, vaccinated or preg checked, foal is 6-8 weeks old with septic arthritis but will still kick your ass every time you do something...while mom is "helping" by freaking out herself.

God how I do love sedation.

 

[PAThbrd]

or when they come in with their TB or STB mom that never gets touched other than when she's bred, vaccinated or preg checked, foal is 6-8 weeks old with septic arthritis but will still kick your ass every time you do something...while mom is "helping" by freaking out herself.

God how I do love sedation.

Saddlebred yearlings and 2 y/os that have never been touched, what? hehe

(venturing into the land of off topicness )

 

[Orthonut]

God how I do love sedation.

My motto is "better restraint through sedation"

Speaking of which, there used to be a poem on the wall of the radiology suite at the OSU VTH, I think Dr whatshisname, the camelid guy...aaahhhhh crap can't remember anyway, he wrote it (you know, that one guy)

went something like this:

"Blood is red, bruises are blue, horses are violent, some rompun will do"

 

[UKYWildcat]

My motto is "better restraint through sedation"

Speaking of which, there used to be a poem on the wall of the radiology suite at the OSU VTH, I think Dr whatshisname, the camelid guy...aaahhhhh crap can't remember anyway, he wrote it (you know, that one guy)

went something like this:

"Blood is red, bruises are blue, horses are violent, some rompun will do"

I think the whatshisname you're refering to Christopher Cebra. The 'other' (real) OSU camlid guy is Dave Anderson, but he recently moved to KSU.

 

[Orthonut]

I think the whatshisname you're refering to Christopher Cebra. The 'other' (real) OSU camlid guy is Dave Anderson, but he recently moved to KSU.

Yeah Dr Cebra's the bestest ever. (but damn his research llama, that thing was like a sniper with the spitting)

 

[HorseyVet]

oh and, this is kind of off the subject, but does anyone know how to get my dad to stop emailing me asking silly things like "how do I get (insert name of baby horse here) to let me put her halter on?" I mean, the man has been handling foals for oh 27 years or so. He knows this damline. I send one or two emails a term saying essentially the same thing "Dad, don't you remember when Celeste was a foal? Remember how she used to throw those tantrums, etc etc etc. You can't just walk up to one of those foals and shove the halter in their face, you have to walk up from the side, scratch the neck, put the lead around them and then come up from the bottom/behind their face, sneaky like and in one fast, smooth motion." Then I get the same reply "Oh yeah, I remember, I just thought you know, you might know some trick" and I reply "dad, I'm 5700 miles away on an island in the middle of the caribbean sea. You see these foals every day, all day, I'm the one that should ask you for tips" I mean, the man is a wonderful handler, but sheesh! the emails! they're taking over my inbox!

Tell him to get a donkey. This one breeding operation we saw would have 30 some foals on the ground every year. The owners were older and not in the best of shape so they had this donkey with a sort of dog/neck-collar sort of thing on him. They'd just tie the foals to him to halter break them b/c the donkey sure wasn't going to put up with their BS. It worked amazingly well.

 

[Orthonut]

Tell him to get a donkey. This one breeding operation we saw would have 30 some foals on the ground every year. The owners were older and not in the best of shape so they had this donkey with a sort of dog/neck-collar sort of thing on him. They'd just tie the foals to him to halter break them b/c the donkey sure wasn't going to put up with their BS. It worked amazingly well.

While that might get by on the ranch, there is no way in heck am I tying up my $15k stud fee to a donkey. That's an excellent way to kill a foal (and a donkey) or both.

I don't get any return on the foals unless they make it to the track, the endurance market, or are sold as halter/performance horses.

Instead of waiting until weaning to halter break them, we do it from birth. We just have one damline that has a nice streak of independance. While it makes for interesting tantrums in the babies, it makes them hella competative in the cutting, working cow, racing, etc. So I'm willing to sit there at the end of the lead and wait until the fillies stop throwing the tantrum and get back up. Dad just forgets sometimes that these guys aren't like the typical QH or TB that you can just walk up and slap a halter on (heh heh heh, wait'll he has to deal with the NSH babies! Hah!)

It just becomes tiresome when you have five or six of fillies out of the same damline in a year (the colts though, they're something else-steady eddies even in utero. they usually end up as CTR or western pleasure/heeling horses)

We used to have a donkey babysitter but he passed on. Currently looking for another. RIP Chico.

 

[HorseyVet]

While that might get by on the ranch, there is no way in heck am I tying up my $15k stud fee to a donkey. That's an excellent way to kill a foal (and a donkey) or both.

I don't get any return on the foals unless they make it to the track, the endurance market, or are sold as halter/performance horses.

I just thought it was a funny story b/c you mentioned halter breaking. I think you really need the right inidivudal (donkey) and personally I don't think I'd ever have the guts to do this....but he's been doing it for years and never had a problem. Just so the picture isn't too wrong here...they're tried with the donkey in a stall and people check on them all day.

Yeah, also these are halter horses (paint and QH) and he uses all his own stallions and mares....so I guess from a financial angle it's up to him. Like I said, I was only really "recommending" that as a joke b/c the first time I learned about this I about died from shock. I agree that the best idea is to just get your hands all over the foal asap.....but there are a ton of operations (and you're right, often they are more of a "ranch" situation) that barely touch their foals. In my experience, usually the people are a little over-horsed (not enough money/staff and/or too many animals) in some way which has caused them to cut some corners.....but after they've been cutting them for 20 or more years, I know that's one fight I'm never going to win (and boy are there horror stories from people who have tried). You sort of have to either not carry them as clients or just make numerous polite comments/suggestions and hope for the best. Obviously if there was something way out of line, I'd report it....but it's hard to nail people on "what could happen"

 

[Orthonut]

oh no prob horsey. I'm laughing my ass off right now, trying to picture Chico tied to one of those fillies. *snork* He was like the Mr Belvidere of Mini Donks. Very proper.

And I totally hear ya on the overhorsed thingy. For want of a groom, the worlds grand champion was lost.