Predict the future!

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Another thing is that the Gub-a-NA-tor in CA, arguably a Democrat Wolf in a Republican Sheep's clothing, has made some bad budget decisions - and now even more worrisome policy decisions - and is running that State even further into the ground.

:laugh: You haven't got a clue what you're talking about, California's problems are pretty simple and have little to do with anything you're rambling on about. The budget problems are:

1. A 2/3s supermajority requirement for any tax increase and for the budget, coupled with a simple majority requirement OR a ballot initiative with 50%+1 for any spending increase
2. Property tax cap at a ridiculously low 1% and thus total dependence on personal income and consumer spending, both notorious for plummeting during recessions
3. Gerrymandering that has resulted in some of the most arch-conservative dinosaurs getting elected and holding up any budget because of whatever the pet issue of the day is
4. Bond measures that voters can't say no to coupled with no revenue stream to pay for them

But don't let facts get in the way of your ******ed distillation of CALIFORNIA = DUMBOCRAT TEXAS = RED BLOODED MERICAN SUCCESS STORY. The real distillation is: obstructionist arch-conservatives hell-bent on starving the beast coupled with stupid voters who vote for any spending increase that comes up.
 
1. A 2/3s supermajority requirement for any tax increase and for the budget, coupled with a simple majority requirement OR a ballot initiative with 50%+1 for any spending increase
2. Property tax cap at a ridiculously low 1% and thus total dependence on personal income and consumer spending, both notorious for plummeting during recessions
3. Gerrymandering that has resulted in some of the most arch-conservative dinosaurs getting elected and holding up any budget because of whatever the pet issue of the day is
4. Bond measures that voters can't say no to coupled with no revenue stream to pay for them

You're exactly right; the California electorate has learned that it can vote itself largesse from the public treasury ...

... which is so totally not the same thing as the national healthcare debate.
 
What are you talking about?

Do you really not understand? I mean, really? To spell it out:
  • California is a mess in large part because the people have, via ballot initiatives and 51%+ votes, given themselves tax cuts (eg Prop 13, $500 billion+ since 1978) and other benefits. This has been a financial disaster for the state, as you identified in your points 1 & 2.
  • I pointed out, sarcastically, that this is not at all different from the national scene in which a majority of citizens have voted in a president promising "free" healthcare for all. I was implying that you were naive in expecting the federal result of such largesse granting to be any different from what we got in California.

And my statement that the electorate has learned that it can vote itself largess from the public treasury is a reference to a quote usually attributed, in various forms, to Alexander Tytler
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.

I don't agree with his conclusion that democracy is destined to fail, but we clearly do currently have a nation in a destructive spiral of ever expanding public debt and currency devaluation ... because the people are voting themselves a bunch of "free" stuff from the government.
 
well vermont is always an option i guess.
>
I've done quite well in the Green Mountain State, so has my arsenal. Reloading is a great wintertime activity, as I've accumulated approx. 80,000 rounds for the zombie invasion. More importantly, I'm one hell of a shot. Seriously, if it ever hits the fan I pity the ***** who comes this way with malicious intent. My collection includes 17 handguns and 8 longuns and is considered small among my peer group. My local firing range is open to the public 24/7...I'm not kidding.

ETA - The fact the VT has more breweries per capita than any other state doesn't hurt either.
 
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All I have to say about California is that my unexpected relocation from gun-friendly Virginia to the Peoples Republic meaned that I had to leave a bunch of "high capacity" magazines and a big scary evil black "assault" rifle with my brother, who lives in a state that still mostly respects the Constitution.

However, the improvement in the quality and availability of Mexican food, compared to the Mexican-culinary-cesspool that is Virginia, is some consolation.




That's right, when the zombies come or civilization collapses, there'll be at least two well-armed groups with top notch anesthesia coverage. 🙂

Somewhat more seriously though, this is occasionally an interesting read - http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

Haven't read hsi book, but the blog is written by a guy who's lived in Argentina through their own economic disaster. Plenty of weird borderline crazy survivalist stuff, but also an indication of what can happen when a 1st world country encounters massive unemployment, the corrupt leading sheeple people, currency devaluation, and a government that mismanages nationalized services like the power grid or just fails to fund trivialities of civilization like police/sanitation.

What surprises me most about Argentina is how almost-normal he says it still is: "People still live their lives, tourists come visit, kids mostly go to school (well, they closed because of the flu for several weeks and strikes are fairly common) but there are the problems I mention such as collapsed infrastructure in nearly all aspects, an inefficient and highly corrupt government, and crime problems that, even though more or less obvious depending where you are located, is out of control and out of charts." It's hard to read that, look at what's going on here, and think it's all just going to be OK.

This nation's standard of living has been unsustainable for a long time. We produce little and export hundreds of billions of dollars of our wealth every year to buy oil and disposable consumer goods. I used to think the global recalibration wouldn't happen in my lifetime - no longer.
>
I just happened to catch a few minutes of this show:
http://www.history.com/shows.do?episodeId=452430&action=detail
frightening.
 
:laugh: You haven't got a clue what you're talking about...

Meister, I'm beginning to believe that you are truly mentally challenged. Your inability to even remotely grasp the simplest of issues has me greatly worried for your future patients. The 2/3'rds budget vote is irrelevant, if the Schwarzenegger would just shut the government down until they resolved it. And, they passed a budget, full of capitulations, end of July anyway. So, your entire point is essentially irrelevant.

California does not equal Texas, and I never said that. California is not full of Gerrymandering arch-conservatives. It is a state that is full of wussies. The legislature panders to unions and special interest who want a payout, and essentially blackmail the legislature. It is a beyond Schwarzenegger's ability, as a mock-Republican, to fix. So, he proposes softball, meaningless solutions that won't ding his self-perceived populist celebrity. That's what I'm talking about - he is unwilling to man-up and shut the state down, instead he offers pay-later IOUs.

For example, here's an Op-Ed on the purported budget fix that went up for a vote in May that exemplifies some of the problems. This was what was offered as a "fix" by the legislature. Once again, I invite you to get educated:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124259847829628121.html

By contrast, Prop 1A allows revenues and thus spending to grow each year at the average rate of growth of tax receipts over the previous decade, or at the rate of population growth plus inflation, whichever is greater. Revenues above that amount are pushed into the reserve fund to be spent at a later date. This gives incentives to legislators to raise taxes whenever possible, because the spending cap rises along with revenues. Prop 1A also allows the legislature to raid the rainy day fund to pay for "capital outlay purposes" -- roads, bridges, schools and even pork projects.

Even worse is Prop 1B, which would divert $9.3 billion from the rainy day fund to the education spenders in Sacramento and thus exempt half the general fund budget from any belt tightening. This would refortify the teachers unions, which have spent $2.7 million to pass the measure and are the very group most responsible for California's fiscal mess. Teacher pay and benefits are already 35% above the national average.

California politicians have operated for years as if the purpose of government is not to provide reliable public services at low cost, but to feed public employee unions. Sacramento also needs to rethink its highly progressive antigrowth tax code, where the tax rates are the highest outside of New York City. The Golden State now ranks worst or second worst on most ratings of state business climate. This drives away entrepreneurs and high-income taxpayers, which in turn leads to lower revenues.

If the voters do reject these false fixes, there will be wails of despair in Sacramento. Assembly Speaker Karen Bass, who never saw a spending or tax increase she didn't like, says "California, frankly, is going to be in a world of hurt." Mr. Schwarzenegger says he will be forced to release 30,000 criminals from jail, and to lay off teachers, troopers and firefighters. Look for the state to ask Washington for another bailout "stimulus."

BUT... there's more...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aTKrn1jUJwdE

It takes years and years to make a mess as terrible as the California debacle, but the recipe is simple. All that you need is two political parties that are always willing to offer easy government solutions for every need of the voters, but never willing to make the tough decisions necessary to finance the government largess that results. Voters will occasionally change their allegiance from one party to the other, but the bacchanal will continue regardless of the names on the office doors.

And, more on point with recent discussions...

Obama has no story. Nobody believes that his unprecedented expansion of the welfare state will lead to enough economic growth. Nobody believes that it will pay for itself. Everyone understands that higher spending today begets higher spending tomorrow. That means that his economic strategy simply doesn't add up.

And, finally this...

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YmZkY2FkYjk5NjU0OGE0YmVjYjI3OGZmYWUxYzllMTI=

After Schwarzenegger pledged to nurse the state back to fiscal health, his toothless reforms and frequent capitulation to the state's Democrat-controlled legislature have brought California to catastrophe. Today the state endures population loss and skyrocketing foreclosures, the largest number of bank failures, the highest state income-tax rate, the largest deficits, the third-worst bond rating, and the fifth-worst unemployment rate in the nation.

As I already alluded to... SCHWARZENEGGER IS JUST ANOTHER IN A LONG LINE OF WEAK, INEFFECTIVE CALIFORNIA GOVERNORS THAT CANNOT ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING BECAUSE HE IS TOO AFRAID OF BECOMING UNPOPULAR!

So, instead he's going to SUPPORT THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA TO INCREASE THE STATE'S REVENUE!

I think that's brilliant and fantastic. I truly do. California is f*cked, and you, Meister, are apparently too stupid to realize that this is cautionary tale for the entire country:

(1) Promise more than you can deliver,
(2) Run up a huge deficit,
(3) Keep a guy in charge who's more concerned with his own celebrity and popularity than he is about being a leader, and
(4) Create a situation where nothing will get done because the opposing sides are so polarized.
(5) Finally, legalize and tax pot so everyone gets stoned and doesn't care anyway.

F*cking brilliant!

And, sound familiar? (ahem... cough... Obama... cough... that's me coughing from the second-hand smoke after Mary Jane gets fired-up by Uncle Sam)

Yeah, California is a great "role model" as a state for the rest of us, especially the Federal Government.

-copro
 
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I don't agree with his conclusion that democracy is destined to fail.
I do agree. This crap has to crumble. It's getting to the point of mathematically impossible not to crumble, and that would be even with full cooperation of the public to demand fiscal responsibility, which we hardly have now.
 
SCHWARZENEGGER IS JUST ANOTHER IN A LONG LINE OF WEAK, INEFFECTIVE CALIFORNIA GOVERNORS-copro

How screwed are we? The qualifications to be governor of the largest economy in the country is to be a steroid using weight lifter that happened to make a few funny in a dumb way action movies. Seriously, think about that. How friggin stupid is our electorate when those are the qualifications they seek to lead them in very serious matters.
 
I do agree. This crap has to crumble. It's getting to the point of mathematically impossible not to crumble, and that would be even with full cooperation of the public to demand fiscal responsibility, which we hardly have now.

Pure democracy is just mob rule, and can't work on a large scale.

Democracy needs effective buffers between the will of a 51% sheeple majority and laws. Good buffers include a constitution requiring a supermajority to make drastic changes, elected representatives who do the actual policymaking and are free to ignore transient & stupid whims of voters (although at risk of being voted out of office), and even some appointed officials who are NOT directly accountable to the electorate. This is more or less what we've got in the United States - a democratic republic, with an entire third of the government consisting of unelected judges appointed for life and accountable to no one. There's no reason this system can't work in perpetuity; the fact that we're spiralling toward disaster right now doesn't mean that our form of democracy is flawed, just that our weak and stupid electorate put the wrong people in office.

California, by virtue of its sheeple-empowering ballot initiative / direct legislation system, is closer to a pure democracy than the nation as a whole. It's no surprise the state is hopelessly screwed.
 
There is a lot of unnecessary fighting here on non-anesthesia related matters. Can I just summarize that if you think Obama is going to lead us out of this crisis with endless borrowing to blow on bad companies and consumer junk, you are basically a complete idiot when it comes to economics. Now that that is settled, we can get back to RSI, CRNAs, MH, deep vs awake extubation; all that good stuff.

Thank you for that proclamation. I'm sure that'll end this debate. :laugh:

-copro
 
Democracy needs effective buffers between the will of a 51% sheeple majority and laws.

I disagree.

Why shouldn't the majority of people have majority say? Maybe you'd need to have a 60% vote, but if we voted on every major policy and decision, then people would have no one to blame but themselves and legislators would have to craft legislation that met the will of the voting majority electorate. At the very least, people would turn out en masse and actually participate in our "Democracy" if they wanted things to go their way. So what if they vote things in to serve themselves?

You don't get a 60% percent vote, and nothing gets changed. I don't see anything wrong with that in principle.

-copro
 
Why shouldn't the majority of people have majority say?

Two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner plans?

A nonproductive sheeple majority voting themselves ever expanding social benefits *cough*obamacare*cough* and sticking the productive minority with the bill?


Mob rule is an unsustainable disaster. There must be limits to what people caught in the moment can do (ie, a Constitution that trumps all other laws and requires a supermajority to amend) and it helps to have some system of check and balances that is not immediately accountable to the electorate in order to slow down the system.

It should be HARD to make sweeping, fundamental changes to the way we're governed and taxed. This is the essence of being conservative ... at least, it used to be, before the fundies took over.

When the people can quickly and directly pass laws with a 51% majority (including amendments to the constitution) stupid and shortsighted things get done. See for example Prop 13 in California. 31 years, $500+ billion in lost state revenue, other taxes raised to help compensate, a sluggish real estate market ... all because the sheeple thought capping and freezing property taxes was a neat idea. Democracy on crack indeed.

There's a reason why most every modern democracy is a democratic republic. Without ignoring the current obvious inadequacies and failures, it's pretty clear that it's far superior to other options.
 
See for example Prop 13 in California. 31 years, $500+ billion in lost state revenue, other taxes raised to help compensate, a sluggish real estate market ... all because the sheeple thought capping and freezing property taxes was a neat idea. Democracy on crack indeed.

Well, Proposition 13, in and of itself, wasn't a bad idea. The problem is that the California government wants to continue to fund all other programs without any revenue to actually fund them from property taxes, and they didn't set-up a better system (like the proposed "rainy day" fund).

Fine.

Let the State programs - the governmental parts that are unsustainable and unfundable - go bankrupt.

People will learn.

They can go without.

And suffer the consequences.

Again, Prop 13 is primarily an issue of "trying to have your cake and eat it" too. And, until people suffer, they don't learn. They want all carrot (no taxes) and no stick (criminals being let out of prison).

But, that's STILL not the real problem in California. Populist Schwarzenegger was unwilling to pull the plug. And, he could've driven a budget through - much earlier - that was not deficit-based and realistic.

I'm telling you, Obama is trying to pull the same exact bullsh*t that California has gone through at the national level now.

I've long ago realized that, if you want people to be self-governing and self-sufficient, you can't keep bailing them out. No one learns a lesson when you bail people out.

If you let people fail, as is happening in California and the financial sectors this past year, eventually they will learn their lesson. It boils down to classic "crisis management", perhaps, but they won't make that same mistake next time... at least the majority of them won't. The problem is that we continually want to prop up houses of cards instead of letting them fall down when they should.

In other words... People want to guzzle Cristal, especially when other people are buying, when what they really need to be doing is sipping water. But, they won't forget about the Champagne and even begin to remotely appreciate plain ol' H2O until the threat becomes real that the well may actually and truly run dry.

-copro
 
You can also hand one to a person who's never held a gun before and be reasonably confident that they can make it go bang.

Good or bad, yes. This is true. And, not necessarily true with a semi-auto.

-copro
 
I mean, come on. The "CalWORKs" program - a welfare-to-employment program that is notoriously ineffective - is funded at over $5 billion annually!

This is the biggest boondoggle in a budget deficit that is $60 billion dollars. That's literally 9% of the budget deficit right there!

Have we learned nothing from ACORN?

-copro
 
Pure democracy is just mob rule, and can't work on a large scale.

Democracy needs effective buffers between the will of a 51% sheeple majority and laws. Good buffers include a constitution requiring a supermajority to make drastic changes, elected representatives who do the actual policymaking and are free to ignore transient & stupid whims of voters (although at risk of being voted out of office), and even some appointed officials who are NOT directly accountable to the electorate. This is more or less what we've got in the United States - a democratic republic, with an entire third of the government consisting of unelected judges appointed for life and accountable to no one. There's no reason this system can't work in perpetuity; the fact that we're spiralling toward disaster right now doesn't mean that our form of democracy is flawed, just that our weak and stupid electorate put the wrong people in office.

California, by virtue of its sheeple-empowering ballot initiative / direct legislation system, is closer to a pure democracy than the nation as a whole. It's no surprise the state is hopelessly screwed.

This is an interesting topic. PW Botha, the guy that preceded FW De Klerk of the former South African apartheid government, KNEW that that form of government was not sustainable. But, there was a strong feeling that to turn things over to majority rule would be the downfall of SA.

This is a controversial subject, but at the time, this would have meant turning over the country to a largely uneducated, illiterate majority. (again, one can argue WHY the majority is/was uneducated and illiterate but that's not the point). And, in fact, this is what ultimately happened. So, South Africa today now leads the world in crime and rape. Johanesburg is now the rape capital of the world.... The majority has now voted in reverse discrimination policies that dwarf those of our affirmative action policies in the U.S. To the point where many young white South Africans (that trace their lineage back to the 1600's, which is more than most of us can claim in the U.S.), are fleeing en masse to places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and to a lesser extent the U.S. There's a feeling of hopelessness in their future that is driving this exodus.

PW Botha argued for a CONFEDERATION of states. The form of government that he would have supported would have meant relative autonomy and self rule in the various states, where if you had a majority IN THAT REGION, then the majority could legislate accordingly, rather than policies being made at the national level by an overal one-man, one-vote situation.

Obviously, this discussion is academic, but we should maybe learn from history, rather than being consumed with idealism at the expense of realism.
 
Very similar to Clubber Lang's prediction: Painnnn..........

A debt death spiral in which we can no longer service the debt without high taxes, high interest rates, and money printing leading to a currency devaluation, hyperinflation, and an economic collapse. Widespread rioting will occur when Entitled America has their freebees cut off. In addition there will be massive food and energy shortages leading to crime waves and anarchy. Every household will look like an armed fort. Those smart enough to stockpile food or have farms will face constant armed attack. You will eventually lose almost all of your material wealth as it becomes worthless, stolen, or abandoned. Through it all some politician will say, "America's best days are ahead of us."

2 month update: The debt death spiral continues. In case you live in a cave I'll fill you in: the dollar has been plummetting, gold reaches new highs daily, last month set a new alltime monthly deficit, and money printing continues to accelerate. The US clearly still hasn't got the message as there continues to be more talk of a huge healthcare entitlement and a second "stimulus" (ie, a massive government debt spending bill designed only to delay and intensify the inevitable collapse, similar to a ponzi scheme). This questionable "recovery" has the believability of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

The world is waking up with much talk in the past 2 months of dumping the dollar as the world reserve currency. At some point foreign governments will stop propping us up through debt purchases and realize every dollar of US debt they buy is throwing good money down the US debt toilet never to be repayed at anywhere near equal value. You're not going to fix a debt consumption crisis with even more wasteful debt and wasteful consumption, and the world will figure this out even if Obama, Geithner, Bernanke, CNN, and MSNBC don't.

If you want to learn more I suggest youtubing Peter Schiff and a few others that understand economics and clearly saw this disaster coming ahead of time (Crash Proof 2.0, great book. It's not a feel-good book; it's reality). Schiff is running against Senator Dodd (true scumbag) in Connecticut in 2010 (schiffforsenate.com). While he would be an incredible asset in DC, it is probably too little too late.

Obamageddon will end with the 2010 midterm elections, but the fiscal damage will be felt for generations. While Republicans haven't been fiscal responsible either, we'll at least have gridlock for a couple of years until 2012. If you don't like this message, don't shoot the messenger, shoot the people (figuratively, not literally) that had lead us to the brink of collapse, ie Washington.

I can hardly wait for Obama's pep rally in January telling all the sheep how wonderful the Messiah is for saving us.
 
2 month update: The debt death spiral continues. In case you live in a cave I'll fill you in: the dollar has been plummetting, gold reaches new highs daily, last month set a new alltime monthly deficit, and money printing continues to accelerate. The US clearly still hasn't got the message as there continues to be more talk of a huge healthcare entitlement and a second "stimulus" (ie, a massive government debt spending bill designed only to delay and intensify the inevitable collapse, similar to a ponzi scheme). This questionable "recovery" has the believability of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

The world is waking up with much talk in the past 2 months of dumping the dollar as the world reserve currency. At some point foreign governments will stop propping us up through debt purchases and realize every dollar of US debt they buy is throwing good money down the US debt toilet never to be repayed at anywhere near equal value. You're not going to fix a debt consumption crisis with even more wasteful debt and wasteful consumption, and the world will figure this out even if Obama, Geithner, Bernanke, CNN, and MSNBC don't.

If you want to learn more I suggest youtubing Peter Schiff and a few others that understand economics and clearly saw this disaster coming ahead of time (Crash Proof 2.0, great book. It's not a feel-good book; it's reality). Schiff is running against Senator Dodd (true scumbag) in Connecticut in 2010 (schiffforsenate.com). While he would be an incredible asset in DC, it is probably too little too late.

Obamageddon will end with the 2010 midterm elections, but the fiscal damage will be felt for generations. While Republicans haven't been fiscal responsible either, we'll at least have gridlock for a couple of years until 2012. If you don't like this message, don't shoot the messenger, shoot the people (figuratively, not literally) that had lead us to the brink of collapse, ie Washington.

I can hardly wait for Obama's pep rally in January telling all the sheep how wonderful the Messiah is for saving us.

When you claim you are going to 'save jobs' you've pretty much set the invisible bar pretty low. I could stand on my left foot for an hour and claim that it saved jobs. The claims would be equally unverifiable. My one leg plan would probably be more helpful that Chairman Obama's policies because they at least would be harmful.
Of course his goal isn't jobs or wealth or standard of living or stability, it's 'redistributive justice'. His communist ideal would be to distribute wealth from rich to poor. His policies do more to distribute wealth from the future to the present. They won't even audit the fed because people will freak out if the truth is known.


"Without economic calculation there can be no economy. Hence in a socialist state wherein the pursuit of economic calculation is impossible, there can be--in our sense of the term--no economy whatsoever ... Socialism is the abolition of rational economy." - Mises
 
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2 month update: The debt death spiral continues. In case you live in a cave I'll fill you in: the dollar has been plummetting, gold reaches new highs daily, last month set a new alltime monthly deficit, and money printing continues to accelerate. The US clearly still hasn't got the message as there continues to be more talk of a huge healthcare entitlement and a second "stimulus" (ie, a massive government debt spending bill designed only to delay and intensify the inevitable collapse, similar to a ponzi scheme). This questionable "recovery" has the believability of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

The world is waking up with much talk in the past 2 months of dumping the dollar as the world reserve currency. At some point foreign governments will stop propping us up through debt purchases and realize every dollar of US debt they buy is throwing good money down the US debt toilet never to be repayed at anywhere near equal value. You're not going to fix a debt consumption crisis with even more wasteful debt and wasteful consumption, and the world will figure this out even if Obama, Geithner, Bernanke, CNN, and MSNBC don't.

If you want to learn more I suggest youtubing Peter Schiff and a few others that understand economics and clearly saw this disaster coming ahead of time (Crash Proof 2.0, great book. It's not a feel-good book; it's reality). Schiff is running against Senator Dodd (true scumbag) in Connecticut in 2010 (schiffforsenate.com). While he would be an incredible asset in DC, it is probably too little too late.

Obamageddon will end with the 2010 midterm elections, but the fiscal damage will be felt for generations. While Republicans haven't been fiscal responsible either, we'll at least have gridlock for a couple of years until 2012. If you don't like this message, don't shoot the messenger, shoot the people (figuratively, not literally) that had lead us to the brink of collapse, ie Washington.

I can hardly wait for Obama's pep rally in January telling all the sheep how wonderful the Messiah is for saving us.

Hey Narc, does Crash Proof 2.0 have a fair amount of new information that wasn't covered in the original? I've read #1 as well as The Little Book of Bull Moves in a Bear Market..... Highly recommend both.

Also, did you notice how Dodd has "stepped up" with his weak little "anti-Fed" legislative proposal now that he's running aginst Schiff??? What a joke.

Regarding a recovery, I couldn't agree more. People, this will get much worse before it gets better, and in my opinion, we are likely seeing a standard of living "adjustment" that could be permanent, for the foreseeable future, Black Swans aside......

It's good to see so many on this forum actually taking the time to f.cking READ and educate themselves on some of these critical non-medical issues.

Other guys that are good to listen to are Marc Faber and to a lesser extent Jim Rogers. I've followed Faber for about 2 years and I kid you not, he's called every major market move (even small swings) spot on. The guy's a genius, and tells it like it is. ***For those of you who have significant savings/investments you'd benefit greatly from catching his interviews on youtube, and if more serious, might consider subscribing to his newsletter (I'm highly considering it).

cf
 
When you claim you are going to 'save jobs' you've pretty much set the invisible bar pretty low. I could stand on my left foot for an hour and claim that it saved jobs. The claims would be equally unverifiable. My one leg plan would probably be more helpful that Chairman Obama's policies because they at least would be harmful.
Of course his goal isn't jobs or wealth or standard of living or stability, it's 'redistributive justice'. His communist ideal would be to distribute wealth from rich to poor. His policies do more to distribute wealth from the future to the present. They won't even audit the fed because people will freak out if the truth is known.


"Without economic calculation there can be no economy. Hence in a socialist state wherein the pursuit of economic calculation is impossible, there can be--in our sense of the term--no economy whatsoever ... Socialism is the abolition of rational economy." - Mises

Yeah, it won't happen. The "Fed" is such a monstrosity that if the truth behind their operations were made public, the system would truly collapse through an absolute lack of faith in our financial system.

I say this ofcourse, not knowing what the "Fed" has been up to. But, you know something is awry when they're taking every measure to remain unauditable.

Also, we need to look at the players behind the dismantling of Glass-Steagall and much of the disregulation that lead to the current disaster. Look at the revolving door between the "Fed", Treasury, and Goldman Sachs. It's not a conspiracy. It's plain as day.

Then consider which "class" has benefited over the past 20-30 years (one could argue 2-3 hundred years back to Britain). Has it been the financial class or the working class? And has the success of one been at the expense of the other?

Now, we're seeing the big banks paying out record bonuses!! If it wasn't so tragic, it could be funny.

cf
 
As an aside, one thing we have at our disposal that didn't even exist 10 years ago, are media such as Youtube.

This allows information exchange in an uncontrolled fashion, without the traditional "filtering" that goes on in the mainstream.

More importantly, it allows for people to look back on historic events (via old interviews or debates) and to better assess those people that are selling us a bill of goods versus those that have real credibility. It's the ultimate tool in analyzing people's track records so that we can formulate our own opinion in the most educated way possible.

Clearly, it also allows access to the perspectives of people that might not otherwise be given a platform in the MSM. This is highly valuable in our world today.
 
a
Hey Narc, does Crash Proof 2.0 have a fair amount of new information that wasn't covered in the original? I've read #1 as well as The Little Book of Bull Moves in a Bear Market..... Highly recommend both.

Also, did you notice how Dodd has "stepped up" with his weak little "anti-Fed" legislative proposal now that he's running aginst Schiff??? What a joke.

Regarding a recovery, I couldn't agree more. People, this will get much worse before it gets better, and in my opinion, we are likely seeing a standard of living "adjustment" that could be permanent, for the foreseeable future, Black Swans aside......

It's good to see so many on this forum actually taking the time to f.cking READ and educate themselves on some of these critical non-medical issues.

Other guys that are good to listen to are Marc Faber and to a lesser extent Jim Rogers. I've followed Faber for about 2 years and I kid you not, he's called every major market move (even small swings) spot on. The guy's a genius, and tells it like it is. ***For those of you who have significant savings/investments you'd benefit greatly from catching his interviews on youtube, and if more serious, might consider subscribing to his newsletter (I'm highly considering it).

Here's an interesting exercise. One of the things I like most about Marc Faber is that he's a pragmatist with a global view. He's apolitical as well. So, note in this interview he's calling for a shorter term DOLLAR REBOUND, which is contrary to what many of us might think would happen. But, listen to his reasoning, and also note his long term bearish sentiment on the US dollar. Let's see if the dollar gets a little bump, though, in coming months. I've seen him make similar predictions (such as this past US equity rebound that he called almost to the month) that have come very true.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MarcFaberChannel
NOTE: I'm personally long term bullish on precious metals and even with a short term dollar rebound (as Faber is calling for) and subsequent pullbacks in gold/silver, which could include simple profit taking, irrespective of what the dollar does, I'm definitely not going to attempt to "trade" this call. I'm just going to keep an eye on it.

Here's an interview from a few days ago. I may have lied in that he gets a bit political w/r/t the "Fed" and it's money printing policy. Again, this guy offers an interesting perspective with a global outlook.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR3YFuV5bOw

cf
 
Dude, you got a REALLY late start. I hope you're living like a monk right now and putting away as much cash - or, preferably, other tangible assets that have lasting value on the world economy - right now.

-copro

In a similar late start sitution. Looking at what's going on in the US, and the world right now is unsettling to say the least. Working on what you said, plus paying down debt. (since one possible definition of debt is a claim on future human labor...)
 
In a similar late start sitution. Looking at what's going on in the US, and the world right now is unsettling to say the least. Working on what you said, plus paying down debt. (since one possible definition of debt is a claim on future human labor...)

One way to look at debt under these unique circumstances might be to diversify your portfolio as a hedge against inflation, with precious metal ETF's (Deutche Bank, Proshares etc. have these products) or even currency ETF's to diversify away from the dollar. Then, provided the dollar declines precipitously, you can use those assets (comparitavely more valuable) to pay down debt which by then may be considered extremely low interest rates (even at the 6.8% subsidized, which sucks, but it's all relative) and debt that is denominated in U.S. dollars.

Here's an article from Der Spiegel which discusses what hyperinflation was like in Germany. There are a few differences (and some may still become similarities as this plays out), but much of what went on in Germany at that time, I'm seeing the U.S. making the same mistakes.
I've bolded some of what I consider highlights and warning signs.....

Germany in the Era of Hyperinflation
By Alexander Jung

During the hyperinflation in Germany of 1920s, the country's currency, the mark, went crazy. The government of the Weimar Republic may have been able to clear its debts, but it came at the cost of the citizens' savings. It's an era that is still part of the national psyche today.

Editor's note: During the global economic crisis, politicians and economists in the United States and Britain often criticized Berlin for its reluctance to initiate the kinds of expensive stimulus programs promoted by Washington. One of the most oft-cited reasons in Germany for racking up more debt than necessary to revive the economy was the fear of hyperinflation. From 1922-1923, hyperinflation plagued Germany and helped fuel the eventual rise of Adolf Hitler. The following article about this national trauma has been translated from a special issue of SPIEGEL on the history of money.

You could say journalist Eugeni Xammar had a stroke of reporter's luck when the Barcelona daily La Veu de Catalunya sent him to Berlin in the fall of 1922, a pivotal moment in the country's history. In the months that followed, it was the most exciting place in the world to report from. Germany's financial structures collapsed, and the mark began its descent into near worthlessness.


"The price of tram rides and beef, theater tickets and school, newspapers and haircuts, sugar and bacon, is going up every week," Xammar wrote in February 1923. "As a result no one knows how long their money will last, and people are living in constant fear, thinking of nothing but eating and drinking, buying and selling. There is only one topic on everyone's lips in Berlin: the dollar, the mark, and prices. ... Have you seen this? For heaven's sake, stop! I've just bought a six-week supply of sausages, ham, and cheese."

Nearly every day the journalist sent home new stories of the hyperinflation he was witnessing; reports of everyday insanity in a country whose currency was going crazy. In 1914, at the start of World War I, the dollar was worth 4.20 marks. From then on the German currency steadily declined, and in the fall of 1922 it went into freefall. By November 1923 the dollar was at 4.2 trillion marks. The nightmare came to an end shortly thereafter, and the dollar was back at 4.20 again, albeit against the new incarnation of the currency: the rentenmark.

Few people understood what had happened. Even today, three generations later, much of it sounds pretty incredible.

Take for example the family that sold its house to emigrate to America. On arrival at the port of Hamburg, they found that the money wasn't enough to pay for their crossing -- in fact, it didn't even pay for their tickets back home. Then there was the man who drank two cups of coffee at 5,000 marks each, only to be presented with a bill for 14,000. When he asked why this was he was told he should have ordered the coffees at the same time because the price had gone up in between. And then there's the story about the couple that took a few hundred million marks to the theater box office hoping to see a show, but discovered it wasn't nearly enough. Tickets were now a billion marks each.

At the height of the crisis, the inflation rate was in the tens of thousands -- per month, that is. And this in the era before the invention of the pocket calculator.

The World Coming off the Rails

Few could laugh at "the macabre joke of inflation," as writer Klaus Mann termed it. "What breathtaking fun it is to watch the world coming off the rails," he wrote in undisguised fascination. Germany was now witnessing "the complete depreciation of the only truly credible value in this godforsaken era: that of money."

His brother, the historian Golo Mann, was more concerned with classifying what was happening. "The effect of the devaluation of the German currency was like that of a second revolution, the first being the war and its immediate aftermath," he concluded. Mann said deep-seated faith was being destroyed and replaced by fear and cynicism. "What was there to trust, who could you rely on if such were even possible?" he asked.

It is true to say that nothing seemed safe anymore -- all semblance of order went out of the window, and with it faith in the Weimar Republic, in democracy, indeed in the future itself. After all, what was there to look forward to? Most people had seen their life savings wiped out while the state was able to shrug off its debts. "Inflation took the basic law-and-order principles of loyalty and trust to the extreme," says historian Martin Geyer.

The hyperinflation left behind a national trauma that can be felt to this day. The experiences of 1923 have etched themselves into the German psyche. Fear of inflation is widespread, and German economists feel more duty-bound than others to vouchsafe economic stability.

But did it all really have to go so far? Could the catastrophe have been averted? And if so, how?

The seeds of the problem were sown many years earlier. Indeed the ball was first set in motion by World War I, during which Germany spent an estimated 160 billion marks on its men and machinery; an unimaginably large sum. The only way the state could finance this was to acquire money by unconventional means.

On August 4, 1914, just three days after the Reich had declared war on Russia, parliament passed a series of currency acts that would have a fundamental impact on the country's money markets. The new legislation suspended the standard of backing cash with gold "until further notice," claiming that an "exceptional increase in unbacked paper notes" was an "economic necessity" in times of war. In other words, the Reich intended to pay for its war effort by printing more and more money.



Soaring National Debt

The sheer volume of banknotes increased dramatically. Whereas there were just 13 billion marks in circulation in 1913, this had jumped to 60 billion by the end of the war. Unfortunately this still wasn't enough to cover the state's expenditures. "As things stand, the only way to finance the cost of fighting the war is to shift the burden into the future through loans," economist Karl Helfferich said in 1915.

The Reich thus racked up huge debts with its own people, repeatedly issuing government bonds; a total of almost 100 billion marks in all. At first Germans bought these bonds almost unthinkingly, secure in the belief that victory was in sight. The national debt shot up from 5 to 156 billion marks.

"There is a point at which printing money affects purchasing power by causing inflation," warned socialist Eduard Bernstein in 1918. But his words and those of others went unheeded. The mountain of bank notes continued to grow, while the volume of goods gradually declined.

It was a classic constellation. Too much money and too few goods could lead to only one thing: Inflation. A government decree setting a maximum price for important consumables such as grain and coal didn't help either. Such artificial limits simply dammed up inflation, causing the liquidity glut to flood the market with even greater devastation when the economy collapsed after the end of the war.

So although the Weimar Republic was not bankrupt from the outset, its creditworthiness was restricted, and inflation saddled the fledgling state with a congenital defect that would have dire consequences.

Ironically, the monetary depreciation in its milder form initially helped stimulate the economy. With its comparatively low value against the dollar, sterling and the French franc, the cheap mark boosted German exports in the early days of the Weimar Republic. Industrial output increased by 20 percent within a year, unemployment fell to below 1 percent in 1922, and real wages rose significantly. The "lubricant of inflation," as economic historian Carl-Ludwig Holtfrerich put it, breathed new life into the private sector.

The post-war boom was all the more remarkable because the rest of the world economy was sinking into a deep recession. The United States and Britain stabilized their currencies even though it put up to a fifth of their respective working population out of work. The governments of the Weimar Republic took the opposite approach, buying themselves an economic upswing and full employment at the cost of catapulting the mark to dizzying heights. Although it would probably be unfair to suggest the politicians in Berlin deliberately drove inflation forward, they didn't exactly try very hard to rein it in. For a while the strategy proved convenient. But they were playing with fire, as soon became apparent.


War Reparations

The huge budget deficit and growing interest payments restricted the state's freedom of movement considerably. The enormous war reparations that Germany had been saddled with were especially hard on the young republic.

Even before the final figure had been agreed upon, German delegates at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference complained that the proposed reparations would "crush all creative urges, the will to work and all entrepreneurial spirit in Germany forever." However, the row over the size of the reparations only broke out in earnest later.

In 1921, the Allies set Germany's reparations at 132 billion goldmarks (pegged at the value of the mark in 1913). From then until 1932 an estimated 26 billion goldmarks was paid out in cash and goods, corresponding to an annual 10 percent of national income. In other words, although the burden was considerable, it was more-or-less affordable.

It was less the size of its reparations than continued uncertainty about them that destabilized the Weimar economy. The mood was especially vitriolic within the Reparations Commission, with the French --- keen to exact revenge for their military defeat in 1871 -- proving completely intransigent.

It therefore took just a relatively minor delay in the delivery of wood, coal and telegraph poles to escalate the conflict, and in January 1923 France marched 100,000 soldiers into Germany's Ruhr valley, seized control of the mines, and confiscated the coal. "This was a fatal blow to German industrial production," Holtfrerich says.

An entire region ground to a halt, and an important source of tax revenues dried up. Because the Ruhr valley was no longer permitted to deliver coal, Germany was forced to obtain its fuel elsewhere -- often from abroad at great cost, depleting its much-needed foreign currency reserves.

At the same time, millions of Germans were living in abject poverty. "Never in my life have I seen such swarms of starving people wandering about," wrote Franz Geyer, the future mayor of the Ruhr valley city of Bochum. Many young children suffered from deficiency diseases such as rickets, and at times tuberculosis reached almost epidemic proportions. In Mannheim, lung disease was reported in 43 families in one 220-household street alone.

Public opinion was unanimous as to the source of this misery, pinning the blame for all Germany's woes firmly on France and its uncompromising stance. As bitterness turned into open resistance, shopkeepers refused to serve French people, and Germans crossed the street to avoid meeting Frenchmen.



"The enemy is among us," wrote the Hildesheimer Allgemeine newspaper, appalled at the occupation of the Ruhr. "He has crept into the heart of the German economy to suck out our life-blood and destroy our very existence as a nation." A 10,000-mark note issued the year before was nicknamed the "vampire bill" because it depicted a man who appeared to have a bite-mark on his neck.

But the vertiginous descent of the mark began in 1922, before the French occupied the Ruhr -- and the drama took its course. Creeping inflation (i.e. currency devaluation of up to 50 percent a year) gave way to galloping inflation (more than 50 percent a year) and eventually became hyperinflation (more than 50 percent a month), and with it the state lost all financial control.

The depreciation of the mark can hardly be explained in terms of quantifiable causes. As so often in economics, expectations played a decisive role. The nerve-wracking wrangling over Germany's reparations had completely undermined faith in the country's economic prospects. Holtfrerich believes the hyperinflation could not have come about without a "collapse in faith in the currency" which in turn prompted a slump in "expectations about the future development of the internal and external value of the mark."

One clear sign of this lack of faith was the almost overnight retreat by foreign creditors from the German money market, selling their government bonds on a massive scale as they went.

By the time German Foreign Minister Walter Rathenau was assassinated by right-wing extremists on June 22, 1922, all hope of a return to economic stability had been lost. And yet the exchange rate didn't go into freefall until the early summer of the following year. The mark had now forfeited all three of the functions that characterized a currency: It served as neither a mathematical unit nor a form of payment -- let alone as a tool for preserving value. "The mark was already dead in the water in October 1922," observed historian Helmut Kerstingjohänner.

In December 1922, the dollar was still worth 2,000 marks. Within four months this had jumped to 20,000 marks, and by August 1923 it stood at more than a million. The Weimar Republic was "teetering on the edge of the abyss," as the then Interior Minister Wilhelm Sollmann put it. "Even the most courageous among us must get dizzy in light of the fragility of the bridge and the distance to the safety of the far shore," he said.

In addition to the state printing office, more than 130 companies were commissioned to print banknotes, and as long as paper was readily available a total of 1,783 presses churned out the nation's bills. Employees brought rucksacks to work on payday to stash their money - and then spent it immediately.



Payment in Bread and Sausages

At the Junkers plant in Dessau the company gave its workers the equivalent of the day's price of three-and-a-half loaves of bread at 9am every morning. Their wives, who were waiting at the factory gates, took the money and dashed off to the shops before the new dollar exchange rate was published at around midday.

Many doctors insisted on being paid not in cash but sausages, eggs, coal, and the like. Because of the constant increase in prices, shops stopped displaying them in their windows. And when the Prussian authorities forced them to do so nonetheless, it drove prices even higher because traders simply took prospective increases into account.

Even cremation became too expense for many because the price was pegged to that of coal. So the dead were buried in the conventional manner again. But here too there were opportunities to cut costs, and a 50 centimeter-high coffin dubbed the "nose-squasher" proved particularly popular.

People lived in a strange kind of tension. On the one hand there was the daily fight for survival, for food, and for heating fuel. "If we more-or-less manage to prevent the city of Cologne from collapsing completely, I shall get down on my knees and thank my Maker," the city's mayor, Konrad Adenauer, said.

Bizarrely enough, goods were no longer in short supply. There was simply no stable currency to buy them with. As the later Chancellor Hans Luther noted in 1923, Germany threatened to "starve with full barns."



'Drinking Away Grandma's House'

On the other hand it was also a time of phenomenal wastefulness. The people were gripped by the urge to panic-buy. They squandered their money, and lived from one day to the next. "We're drinking away Grandma's house" proclaimed one popular tune of the day.

The only objects of real value were tangible assets: diamonds and coins, antiques, pianos and art. The works of contemporary artists like Lyonel Feininger, Paul Klee, Max Pechstein and Karl Schmidt-Rottluff were in especially high demand. And if you had foreign currency, you lived like a king.

One senior mail inspector gained notoriety when it was revealed he had intercepted letters containing foreign banknotes: 1,717 dollars, 1,102 Swiss francs, and 114 French francs - enough to buy two houses for himself and a piano for a friend, with enough left over for an indulgence-like donation to the church.

In fact petty crime in general increased in leaps and bounds. Potato fields were plundered, bakeries raided, shop windows smashed. Prices weren't the only thing that went out of control. All values seemed to have been corrupted. Dance halls and strip bars opened up in the cities, and cocaine sales skyrocketed. People lived as if there were no tomorrow. Economist Joseph Schumpeter noted the "disorganizing effects of the collapsing currency on the national character, on morals, and all branches of cultural life."
Given that the mark had been discredited, many cities and even companies began creating their own currencies and printing emergency money. One firm in southern Germany issued a 50,000-mark bill featuring the clever aphorism "If coal is even more expensive, feel free to use me as fuel."

It was clear a radical monetary change was needed to halt the permanent depreciation and return to a more ordered state of affairs. In mid-November 1923 the government began issuing rentenmarks, claiming the new currency was backed by mortgages on industrial and agricultural land. This was of course fictitious. If push came to shove, no industrialist or farmer would have agreed to exchange his land for money. But after years of nerve-racking inflation the German people were so desperate for stability they were prepared to trust the new currency unquestioningly.



Sticking the Populace with the Tab

History may hail "the miracle of the rentenmark," but in reality it constituted an admission that the German Reich was bankrupt. And as always, it was the populace that picked up the tab.

The stupid ones were those who had nest eggs: the thrifty, holders of government bonds, but primarily the country's pensioners. In other words, those who received money without having to work for it, who lived on their pensions or the interest on their savings. Large sections of the middle classes saw themselves stripped of their assets, losing almost everything they had set aside for years. Banks, savings banks, and insurance companies suffered huge losses and were left with nothing but their paper money. As a result, they had to start the majority of their businesses from scratch in 1924.

By perverse contrast, the winners of the hyperinflation were those with massive debts; first and foremost the state, but also private individuals who had borrowed money to buy houses, construction land or farmland, and whose loans were slashed by the switch to the rentenmark.

Some industrialists made huge gains from the period of hyperinflation. Hugo Stinnes, whom Time magazine crowned "Germany's new Kaiser," built up an immense corporate empire comprising heavy industry, newspapers, ships and hotels -- all based on a mountain of debt. As late as the summer of 1922, Stinnes was recommending that people continue capitalizing on "the weapon of inflation." Indeed manufacturers and craftsmen in general profited from the crisis since they possessed plants and buildings -- that is, tangible assets that outlived the currency switch.



Fiscal Anarchy

Most farmers also did extremely well. "They had money to burn, and spent it willy-nilly," writer Lion Feuchtwanger recalled. Some bought themselves entire stables of racehorses, others expensive cars. "Farmer Greindlberger drove from the grimy village street of Englschalking to Munich in an elegant limousine complete with a liveried chauffeur, while he himself was dressed in a brown velvet jacket and a green chamois-tufted hat," Feuchtwanger wrote of the rural rich.

Never before had Germany witnessed such a fundamental redistribution of wealth, and many of the winners were those who had previously been wealthy.

Much should have been done differently between 1914 and 1924 to avoid this disaster. Firstly, Germany should have had more powerful institutions, namely governments backed by the people that placed greater emphasis on prudent budgeting and could have reached a better deal with the Allies. At the same time foreign countries -- especially France -- should have been more sensitive to deeply indebted Germany's needs and taken greater account of the predicament it was in. Most importantly, however, the Allies should have been clearer about the size of Germany's war reparations much sooner. In the absence of this, the Reich descended into a kind of fiscal anarchy.

Disillusioned, many Germans chose to withdraw from the bitter reality of their lives, and simply left the country. In 1923, the authorities counted three times as many emigrées as the year before. Some sought refuge in sects, others committed suicide. Millions more became radicalized.

It's no coincidence that Adolf Hitler's inexorable rise to power began in November 1923, the highpoint of Germany's inflation, when he organized the abortive Beer Hall Putsch in Munich.

Catalan Germany correspondent Eugeni Xammar witnessed the spectacle at close quarters, having recently conducted an interview with "the future ex-dictator of Germany." In this interview Hitler claimed the high cost of living was Germany's biggest problem, promising "We intend to make life cheaper." To this end he demanded that shops -- many of which were in Jewish hands -- be brought under state control. And he stressed, "We expect all kinds of miracles of these national stores."

The journalist from Barcelona wasn't shy about stating what he thought of his interviewee. Hitler was, Xammar wrote, "the stupidest person I have ever had the pleasure of meeting."

Tragically, most Germans were soon to have a very different opinion of him.
 
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CF, I'm encouraged everytime I find just even only one more guy that gets it. Over a year ago when I started my rants against TARP and then Obamanomics, the country was clueless and drowning in Obama Koolaide. Now I see the word continually spread, and despite CNNs best efforts to tell you spending us further into bankruptcy really is a cure, people are getting pissed. I know I am. Cash for cluckers, cash for first time homebuyers, cash for bankers, cash for failed companies, cash for anybody; it's friggin ridiculous.

When you watch these Schiff video clips taken BEFORE the collapse, it's obvious he is the man. He explains in perfect detail against a world of baffoons what exactly will happen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

This one is a Sciff favorite of mine; an hour long on financial bubbles but really good and very funny. Many people would have saved lots of money if they heard of Schiff before the collapse:

http://blog.mises.org/archives/009620.asp

Crash Proof 2.0 repeats the first book, but adds an adendum to each chapter. It's impressive to read the dead on accuracy before the crap hit the fan. Now the bozos that blew up these bubbles and had no idea they would collapse suddenly think they have the answers, and that being to just reinflate a bigger problem all over again. Among educated economists, Obama will go down as one of the absolute worst clueless presidents this nation ever had. My blood boils how friggin stupid and full of crap the 3 stooges are (Barack, Timmy, and Ben).

Mark Faber is funny, and very smart. He labals our US bonds as junk bonds; and he's 100% correct. Our bonds and treasuries are junk, backed by nothing, and can't be paid off without ever increasing debt (ie, a ponzi no different than Bernie Madoff).

I live nowhere near Connecticut, yet made my first political donation ever (the 2400 dollar maximum) to Peter Schiff's campaign against Senator Dodd in CT (schiffforsenate.com). Can you imagine Dodd debating Schiff? He will look like the completely incompetent jackass that he is.
 
CF, I'm encouraged everytime I find just even only one more guy that gets it. Over a year ago when I started my rants against TARP and then Obamanomics, the country was clueless and drowning in Obama Koolaide. Now I see the word continually spread, and despite CNNs best efforts to tell you spending us further into bankruptcy really is a cure, people are getting pissed. I know I am. Cash for cluckers, cash for first time homebuyers, cash for bankers, cash for failed companies, cash for anybody; it's friggin ridiculous.

When you watch these Schiff video clips taken BEFORE the collapse, it's obvious he is the man. He explains in perfect detail against a world of baffoons what exactly will happen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

This one is a Sciff favorite of mine; an hour long on financial bubbles but really good and very funny. Many people would have saved lots of money if they heard of Schiff before the collapse:

http://blog.mises.org/archives/009620.asp

Crash Proof 2.0 repeats the first book, but adds an adendum to each chapter. It's impressive to read the dead on accuracy before the crap hit the fan. Now the bozos that blew up these bubbles and had no idea they would collapse suddenly think they have the answers, and that being to just reinflate a bigger problem all over again. Among educated economists, Obama will go down as one of the absolute worst clueless presidents this nation ever had. My blood boils how friggin stupid and full of crap the 3 stooges are (Barack, Timmy, and Ben).

Mark Faber is funny, and very smart. He labals our US bonds as junk bonds; and he's 100% correct. Our bonds and treasuries are junk, backed by nothing, and can't be paid off without ever increasing debt (ie, a ponzi no different than Bernie Madoff).

I live nowhere near Connecticut, yet made my first political donation ever (the 2400 dollar maximum) to Peter Schiff's campaign against Senator Dodd in CT (schiffforsenate.com). Can you imagine Dodd debating Schiff? He will look like the completely incompetent jackass that he is.

Hey Narc. I bought Crash Proof 2.0 last night. Couldn't resist, and while I'm already pretty dialed into his message, I'm happy to contribute indirectly. Hell, he may end up tapping into his own coffers eventually, and then the book sales will help out....

I seriously doubt Dodd would ever be dumb enough to enter into a debate with Schiff. He would get his a.s handed to him on a silver platter.

Cheers👍

cf

BTW, nice work on the Mises Institute link. That takes some more time to delve into, but good link. We need to see "Keynsian theory" be exposed for what it is. Simply a flawed economic THEORY, in which most of our nations bankers and economic "leaders" have (and sadly still do) adhere to as if it were the next great religion. So, we'll continue seeing the same mistakes made.
 
CF, I'm encouraged everytime I find just even only one more guy that gets it. Over a year ago when I started my rants against TARP and then Obamanomics, the country was clueless and drowning in Obama Koolaide. Now I see the word continually spread, and despite CNNs best efforts to tell you spending us further into bankruptcy really is a cure, people are getting pissed. I know I am. Cash for cluckers, cash for first time homebuyers, cash for bankers, cash for failed companies, cash for anybody; it's friggin ridiculous.

When you watch these Schiff video clips taken BEFORE the collapse, it's obvious he is the man. He explains in perfect detail against a world of baffoons what exactly will happen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

This one is a Sciff favorite of mine; an hour long on financial bubbles but really good and very funny. Many people would have saved lots of money if they heard of Schiff before the collapse:

http://blog.mises.org/archives/009620.asp

Crash Proof 2.0 repeats the first book, but adds an adendum to each chapter. It's impressive to read the dead on accuracy before the crap hit the fan. Now the bozos that blew up these bubbles and had no idea they would collapse suddenly think they have the answers, and that being to just reinflate a bigger problem all over again. Among educated economists, Obama will go down as one of the absolute worst clueless presidents this nation ever had. My blood boils how friggin stupid and full of crap the 3 stooges are (Barack, Timmy, and Ben).

Mark Faber is funny, and very smart. He labals our US bonds as junk bonds; and he's 100% correct. Our bonds and treasuries are junk, backed by nothing, and can't be paid off without ever increasing debt (ie, a ponzi no different than Bernie Madoff).

I live nowhere near Connecticut, yet made my first political donation ever (the 2400 dollar maximum) to Peter Schiff's campaign against Senator Dodd in CT (schiffforsenate.com). Can you imagine Dodd debating Schiff? He will look like the completely incompetent jackass that he is.


What makes MY blood boil is when these loser pundits continue to label the U.S. CITIZEN as the "US consumer". WTF????

Sure, I understand it's within a financial context, but it really pisses me of when I hear Americans CONTINUALLY labeled as "consumers". It just sounds too Orwellian to me.... I don't know...
 
Here's what China just announced regarding the 3 Stooges' (Obama, Timmy, and Ben) policy of accelerated currency collapse:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/15/china-criticizes-financial-management-obama-visit/

<<Liu Mingkang, chairman of the China Banking Regulatory Commission, said that a weak U.S. dollar and low U.S. interest rates had led to "massive speculation" that was inflating asset bubbles around the world. It has created "unavoidable risks for the recovery of the global economy, especially emerging economies," Liu said. The situation is "seriously impacting global asset prices and encouraging speculation in stock and property markets.">>


CF, I'm in disbelief that educated people say we need the broke consumer to consume and for broke banks to begin making bad loans again. How can the problem possibly become the cure? 2008 was nothing but a mild warmup for how bad it will get. Wait till interest rates shoot up, when prices skyrocket, when government services and entitlements get slashed. It is mathematically unavoidable at this point.

Forget about retirement and don't sweat the 62 year old anesthesiologists still working. I plan on working until I either die or the hospital says, "Hey look old man, you're 90 and need to go."

This country from individual to the Federal government doesn't have a pot to piss in. All that spent money over the years is gone and isn't magically reappearing no matter how much smoke and mirrors Washington wants to play with your money. By being a completely broke country we now risk national security. We don't have the clout nor the resources for government to perform Job #1; protect the United States. It's a sad situation.
 
Here's what China just announced regarding the 3 Stooges' (Obama, Timmy, and Ben) policy of accelerated currency collapse:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/15/china-criticizes-financial-management-obama-visit/

<<Liu Mingkang, chairman of the China Banking Regulatory Commission, said that a weak U.S. dollar and low U.S. interest rates had led to "massive speculation" that was inflating asset bubbles around the world. It has created "unavoidable risks for the recovery of the global economy, especially emerging economies," Liu said. The situation is "seriously impacting global asset prices and encouraging speculation in stock and property markets.">>


CF, I'm in disbelief that educated people say we need the broke consumer to consume and for broke banks to begin making bad loans again. How can the problem possibly become the cure? 2008 was nothing but a mild warmup for how bad it will get. Wait till interest rates shoot up, when prices skyrocket, when government services and entitlements get slashed. It is mathematically unavoidable at this point.

Forget about retirement and don't sweat the 62 year old anesthesiologists still working. I plan on working until I either die or the hospital says, "Hey look old man, you're 90 and need to go."

This country from individual to the Federal government doesn't have a pot to piss in. All that spent money over the years is gone and isn't magically reappearing no matter how much smoke and mirrors Washington wants to play with your money. By being a completely broke country we now risk national security. We don't have the clout nor the resources for government to perform Job #1; protect the United States. It's a sad situation.

Narc, I read the same on Bloomberg. Those types of statements from officials of that magnitude don't get "leaked" by accident (at least not usually, or in this way). This guy is making a purposeful statement.

As for your other points, things may very well get desperate. And when any state gets desperate, well, desperate things happen. That's why I've argued that we MUST be mindful (and critical) of what comes out of channeled sources (i.e. the mainstream). We need to be very careful that desperate "solutions" such as war don't get pulled over on the American people. We need war like a hole in our respective heads at this point in time.

We'll see what happens. We're in totally unchartered (sort of, unless we have the discipline to make ourselves students of history) waters. At least this generation. And I believe that real unemployment (how many people are either 6 months or greater unemployed or simply stopped looking. just look around major US cities or even the hospital for that matter) is WAY higher than 10.2%.........

I think the key is to keep cool. It's easy to get sucked into the pessimism. But, then, how can one just turn a blind eye to what's happening? I'm currently torn on this issue. In many ways ignorance IS bliss!

Keep cool, make as prudent of decisions as possible, count your blessings each day, and be flexible and adaptable. That's all one can do short of inciting a revolution (which hopefully would be peaceful).

cf
 
Here's what China just announced regarding the 3 Stooges' (Obama, Timmy, and Ben) policy of accelerated currency collapse:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/15/china-criticizes-financial-management-obama-visit/

<<Liu Mingkang, chairman of the China Banking Regulatory Commission, said that a weak U.S. dollar and low U.S. interest rates had led to "massive speculation" that was inflating asset bubbles around the world. It has created "unavoidable risks for the recovery of the global economy, especially emerging economies," Liu said. The situation is "seriously impacting global asset prices and encouraging speculation in stock and property markets.">>


CF, I'm in disbelief that educated people say we need the broke consumer to consume and for broke banks to begin making bad loans again. How can the problem possibly become the cure? 2008 was nothing but a mild warmup for how bad it will get. Wait till interest rates shoot up, when prices skyrocket, when government services and entitlements get slashed. It is mathematically unavoidable at this point.

Forget about retirement and don't sweat the 62 year old anesthesiologists still working. I plan on working until I either die or the hospital says, "Hey look old man, you're 90 and need to go."

This country from individual to the Federal government doesn't have a pot to piss in. All that spent money over the years is gone and isn't magically reappearing no matter how much smoke and mirrors Washington wants to play with your money. By being a completely broke country we now risk national security. We don't have the clout nor the resources for government to perform Job #1; protect the United States. It's a sad situation.

To address the bold. I think you'll agree that part of the problem is that these Ivy League MBA types are simply not that smart. Also, we've lacked any real economic VISION or policy for such a long time, while special interests have allowed (and even sold concepts that would devestate) manufacturing and production to leave the US en masse. Now we're stuck with a much less productive capacity in the US at a time where we need it most.

One of the points in Crash Proof 2.0 that Schiff makes is that to REbuild the infrastructure to begin producing again could take years, and discipline. I agree, but our short sighted government continues to opt for the horrifyingly-short term strategy of "getting the American consumer back on his feet". And, it's not even proposed in any sane way, such as "once they shore up their debts, that is". But, simply to get people to spend and delve further into debt, regardless. As long as they consume!

This is why, admittedly, I get a bit conspiracy oriented. While I don't think the men really running the show are that smart, nor do I believe they're that stupid either. In other words, with such mismanagement on such a huge scale, I just don't believe in too many coincidences.

So, I tend to look for the HOW's and the WHY's. And, just as importantly, the WHO's that are behind this bullsh.t.

Cheers to all and have a good week.


cf
 
I seriously doubt Dodd would ever be dumb enough to enter into a debate with Schiff. He would get his a.s handed to him on a silver platter.

Has there been an actual political "debate" in this country in the last 30 years?

It's just a bunch of sanitized, preemptively limited, softball questions thrown by a "moderator" to a couple of guys who just happen to be near each other on the same stage. There's no back and forth, no opportunity for one candidate to challenge the other.

And there never will be, because candidates won't agree to "debates" unless the format is limited to something that amounts to a free 30-minute prime time commercial for them to recite their talking points.
 
Our short sighted government continues to opt for the horrifyingly-short term strategy of "getting the American consumer back on his feet".... simply to get people to spend and delve further into debt, regardless. As long as they consume! cf

But you are forgetting the all important "Consumer Confidence"!!! As long as the consumer confidence is up then it must be ok to bury deeper in debt, right? (heavy sarcasm). That is as ignorant as telling a gamblerholic he can reenter the casinos as long as his "Gambler Confidence" is up. As long as his gambler confidence is up he will then get all of his money back from the slot machines, right? (more of that heavy sarcasm).
 
While I don't think the men really running the show are that smart, nor do I believe they're that stupid either. In other words, with such mismanagement on such a huge scale, I just don't believe in too many coincidences.
cf

From an economics point of view, the 3 stooges are both very stupid and very corrupt. Stupid: I honestly think they believe the basis of their policies are sound, despite that similar policies have never worked and are mathematically impossible to ever work. Corrupt: How much money has Paulson/Geithner funnelled towards Goldman Sachs and other banking buddies? Look how high on the Fanny Mae/Freddie Mac payoff list Barack Obama is.
 
I will say it again: If Obama (or his legacy) ultimately proves to be successful at turning this country into Western Europe, I'm going to move there.

With the EU (or, as I like to call it, the "United States of Europe") continuing to grow and get stronger and stronger with each passing year (just look at the history of the Euro against the U.S. Dollar), we will not be able to continue to meaningfully compete on the world economy in no small part to some of the reasons you mention.

Yeah, we're really going to be f*cked in the not-too-short run (next 15-20 years) no matter what we do. But, adding TRILLIONS of dollars to the deficit with Obama's vision of "change" is only going to expedite things.

I'm squirreling away money now. And, much of it will be going into a foreign bank account (and not necessarily Switzerland with their recent sunshine laws).

(Don't get me wrong. This country still rules. More people want to come here than anywhere else in the world. We're still way ahead of Europe in comparison to their out-of-control taxes, average per capita amount of take-home pay, and living in what is essentially tantamount to a soft, more modern version of classic Socialism. My fear is that Obama, despite what he says, is going to ultimately level the playing field believing that we need to be more like them.... and that's the impression he's given me from Day 1.)

-copro



I just visited this thread today for the first time, and I can already tell we're going to get along just fine. 👍
 
"Governments cannot create but merely redirect. When the government spends, the money has to come from somewhere. If the government doesn't have a surplus, then it must come from taxes. If taxes don't go up, then it must come from increased borrowing. If lenders won't lend, then it must come from the printing press, which is where all these bailouts are headed. But each additional dollar printed diminishes the value of those already in circulation. Something cannot be effortlessly created from nothing.

Similarly, any jobs or other economic activity created by public-sector expansion merely comes at the expense of jobs lost in the private sector. And if the government chooses to save inefficient jobs in select private industries, more efficient jobs will be lost in others. As more factors of production come under government control, the more inefficient our entire economy becomes. Inefficiency lowers productivity, stifles competitiveness and lowers living standards."

~Peter Schiff WSJ
 
Guys, I wish I werent up to my neck in TG day GSWs and MVCs so I could contribute to this some.

But what did stand out to me is that several of us have CCW permits but do not carry! You just never know when you need it. So the adage goes: It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Im just trying to encourage everyone to lawfully carry. B/c you just never know.
 
"Governments cannot create but merely redirect. When the government spends, the money has to come from somewhere. If the government doesn't have a surplus, then it must come from taxes. If taxes don't go up, then it must come from increased borrowing. If lenders won't lend, then it must come from the printing press, which is where all these bailouts are headed. But each additional dollar printed diminishes the value of those already in circulation. Something cannot be effortlessly created from nothing.

Similarly, any jobs or other economic activity created by public-sector expansion merely comes at the expense of jobs lost in the private sector. And if the government chooses to save inefficient jobs in select private industries, more efficient jobs will be lost in others. As more factors of production come under government control, the more inefficient our entire economy becomes. Inefficiency lowers productivity, stifles competitiveness and lowers living standards."

~Peter Schiff WSJ

Schiff is the man. As shown above, he puts simple common sense information in a very understandable manner. I majored in economics and knew a lot of the crap being tought was completely illogical and unsound. Things like, the government spends and creates jobs, so that must be a good thing. To me it was quite clear that paying bozos to do idiot work that isn't really producing anything useful is just transferring money around, ie welfare. It increases our national debt, creates nothing, and adds nothing to our economy and wealth.

Finally a mainstream guy like Schiff comes around and understands these very simple concepts. The Obama media and the Obama university types can't stand Peter Schiff because a) they aren't smart enough to understand him, and b) Schiff routinely makes these guys look incredibly stupid. Youtube Peter Schiff and there are literally thousands of clips of him embarassing everybody from Ben Stein to Ben Bernanke.

I'm tempted to say Schiff is an economics genius, but then again, if you are very mathematically inclined (which many in anesthesiology are) then what he says isn't very complex and is rather basic to understand. I think more than Schiff being a genius is that the media and both parties in DC are completely fu**ing clueless and have absolutely no idea what they talk about (btw, economically speaking, the differences between the 2 parties are so small that they are practically nonexistent).
 
:laugh: You haven't got a clue what you're talking about, California's problems are pretty simple and have little to do with anything you're rambling on about. The budget problems are:

1. A 2/3s supermajority requirement for any tax increase and for the budget, coupled with a simple majority requirement OR a ballot initiative with 50%+1 for any spending increase
2. Property tax cap at a ridiculously low 1% and thus total dependence on personal income and consumer spending, both notorious for plummeting during recessions
3. Gerrymandering that has resulted in some of the most arch-conservative dinosaurs getting elected and holding up any budget because of whatever the pet issue of the day is
4. Bond measures that voters can't say no to coupled with no revenue stream to pay for them

But don't let facts get in the way of your ******ed distillation of CALIFORNIA = DUMBOCRAT TEXAS = RED BLOODED MERICAN SUCCESS STORY. The real distillation is: obstructionist arch-conservatives hell-bent on starving the beast coupled with stupid voters who vote for any spending increase that comes up.
In other words, a very liberal state legislature that can't get the simple idea that you spend less money than you bring in. the democrats have ruined the once great state of california. it is going to get very bad in the next year or two.
 
Schiff is the man. As shown above, he puts simple common sense information in a very understandable manner. I majored in economics and knew a lot of the crap being tought was completely illogical and unsound. Things like, the government spends and creates jobs, so that must be a good thing. To me it was quite clear that paying bozos to do idiot work that isn't really producing anything useful is just transferring money around, ie welfare. It increases our national debt, creates nothing, and adds nothing to our economy and wealth.

Finally a mainstream guy like Schiff comes around and understands these very simple concepts. The Obama media and the Obama university types can't stand Peter Schiff because a) they aren't smart enough to understand him, and b) Schiff routinely makes these guys look incredibly stupid. Youtube Peter Schiff and there are literally thousands of clips of him embarassing everybody from Ben Stein to Ben Bernanke.

I'm tempted to say Schiff is an economics genius, but then again, if you are very mathematically inclined (which many in anesthesiology are) then what he says isn't very complex and is rather basic to understand. I think more than Schiff being a genius is that the media and both parties in DC are completely fu**ing clueless and have absolutely no idea what they talk about (btw, economically speaking, the differences between the 2 parties are so small that they are practically nonexistent).

See, the way I look at is that Schiff represents an economic ideology (even though I'm an Austrian fan, I can't say that ANY are more than ideologies/theories, but surely some work and some don't) that GREATLY differs from the status quo.

So, Schiff is a dangerous guy to the Wall Street, Fed, Treasury establishment whom all have shrines to Jon Maynard Keynes in their homes.......

If the growing movement to expose the "Federal Reserve" becomes successful, things will really get interesting. The power and control that European and US (really most Western) Central Banks have had over the past200 years or so (Europe) and 100 or so in the U.S. is staggering.

It will be such an upset to the current power elite in this country that IMHO, they will get desperate, and the gloves will come off. Conspiracy?? I don't think so. It's just a matter of how dirty things will get as they attempt to maintain their power and position in society.

That being said, Ron Paul's bill is already watered down to the point where I don't think he's even going to vote for it now....... So, it's not likely that we come to extremes on that issue, given that I'm not so confident that Patriots in the U.S. will prevail. We'll see.

Regarding the overall desperation of our economy and debt, with dollar problems? Again, if things get really bad, and by definition, desperate, just keep an eye out for "extraordinary" scenarios that nobody can predict at this time. IMHO, there would definitely be "destractors" thrown into the equation.

Imagine a non-orderly run on the dollar (currently it's been somewhat orderly). This would necessitate the "Fed" raising interest rates during the greatest recession since the Great DEPRESSION.......
So, would a geopolitical "incident" occur somewhere in the world that would cause a precipitous run back to "security" (i.e. U.S. Treasuries, which while the fools are running thin, there are still some)?? This kind of unfortunate situation would solve the interest rate/lack of demand for dollar problem in a hurry....

cf
 
Schiff is the man. As shown above, he puts simple common sense information in a very understandable manner. I majored in economics and knew a lot of the crap being tought was completely illogical and unsound. Things like, the government spends and creates jobs, so that must be a good thing. To me it was quite clear that paying bozos to do idiot work that isn't really producing anything useful is just transferring money around, ie welfare. It increases our national debt, creates nothing, and adds nothing to our economy and wealth.

Finally a mainstream guy like Schiff comes around and understands these very simple concepts. The Obama media and the Obama university types can't stand Peter Schiff because a) they aren't smart enough to understand him, and b) Schiff routinely makes these guys look incredibly stupid. Youtube Peter Schiff and there are literally thousands of clips of him embarassing everybody from Ben Stein to Ben Bernanke.

I'm tempted to say Schiff is an economics genius, but then again, if you are very mathematically inclined (which many in anesthesiology are) then what he says isn't very complex and is rather basic to understand. I think more than Schiff being a genius is that the media and both parties in DC are completely fu**ing clueless and have absolutely no idea what they talk about (btw, economically speaking, the differences between the 2 parties are so small that they are practically nonexistent).

Peter Schiff is an articulate salesman. Financial salesmen make more money by selling their advice than by applying it.
He predicts hyper inflation, a rise in commodities prices, and the collapse in the dollar secondary to all the monetary stimulus. Maybe it will happen, maybe not. There is no reliable way to predict the future. There are just as many arguments for deflation and resulting collapse of commodities prices. Significant inflation is certainly not inevitable.

Consider:

-The spread between 10 year treasuries and 10 year TIPS is less than 2%.(this is the bond market's inflation expectation over the next decade)
-Japan has a MUCH higher ratio of debt to GDP (180%) and have experienced deflation for more than a decade ours is about 60%.
-Home equity is most people's major asset, It has been devastated with little signs of the real estate market reviving. Most "experts" are in fact predicting another leg down. Less wealth=less spending and less inflationary pressure.
-The stock market is well off its highs. Lower net worth=less spending=less inflationary pressure.
-Unemployment is 10%+ nationally. Higher in California, Nevada and the midwest. No job = No money to spend. No rise in prices.
-Downward pressure on almost all wages (except maybe CRNAs🙂) Less money to spend. No inflation.
-State and municipal budgets are balanced with smoke and mirrors this will result in massive layoffs of government jobs in the next couple of years. as the federal stimulus goes away.
-Underfunded corporate pension plans which will be defaulted on. Less money for consumers. Same theme.
-Baby boomers won't be able to retire, further depressing wages as more people compete for jobs.
-Taxes almost certainly going up for anybody with money. Less money in consumer's pockets. Same theme.
-Credit unobtainable for unworthy borrowers. Less spending, more saving, etc., etc.
-In the 70s Volcker tamed inflation by brutally raising rates. This strengthened the dollar and can happen again.

Schiff MAY be right. But everyone knows his arguments. They are built into the price of gold, commodities, the dollar, stock prices, etc. He is just the flavor of the month. BTW his father is a famous tax protestor serving a long prison sentence.
 
Peter Schiff is an articulate salesman. Financial salesmen make more money by selling their advice than by applying it.
He predicts hyper inflation, a rise in commodities prices, and the collapse in the dollar secondary to all the monetary stimulus. Maybe it will happen, maybe not. There is no reliable way to predict the future. There are just as many arguments for deflation and resulting collapse of commodities prices. Significant inflation is certainly not inevitable.

Consider:

-The spread between 10 year treasuries and 10 year TIPS is less than 2%.(this is the bond market's inflation expectation over the next decade)
-Japan has a MUCH higher ratio of debt to GDP (180%) and have experienced deflation for more than a decade ours is about 60%.
-Home equity is most people's major asset, It has been devastated with little signs of the real estate market reviving. Most "experts" are in fact predicting another leg down. Less wealth=less spending and less inflationary pressure.
-The stock market is well off its highs. Lower net worth=less spending=less inflationary pressure.
-Unemployment is 10%+ nationally. Higher in California, Nevada and the midwest. No job = No money to spend. No rise in prices.
-Downward pressure on almost all wages (except maybe CRNAs🙂) Less money to spend. No inflation.
-State and municipal budgets are balanced with smoke and mirrors this will result in massive layoffs of government jobs in the next couple of years. as the federal stimulus goes away.
-Underfunded corporate pension plans which will be defaulted on. Less money for consumers. Same theme.
-Baby boomers won't be able to retire, further depressing wages as more people compete for jobs.
-Taxes almost certainly going up for anybody with money. Less money in consumer's pockets. Same theme.
-Credit unobtainable for unworthy borrowers. Less spending, more saving, etc., etc.
-In the 70s Volcker tamed inflation by brutally raising rates. This strengthened the dollar and can happen again.

Schiff MAY be right. But everyone knows his arguments. They are built into the price of gold, commodities, the dollar, stock prices, etc. He is just the flavor of the month. BTW his father is a famous tax protestor serving a long prison sentence.

Schiff is hardly the flavor of the month, and a "salesman" I guess if you don't understand him or economics. He's been making your "experts" look like idiots for many years, not month. It's no secret real estate is greatly overpriced, yet Democrat and Republican fools are sinking us further into the abyss by trying to refloat a real estate bubble instead of letting it find its market price. There is no free lunch. Artificially propping up home prices comes at a greater cost.

Infinite debt with eventually no means to even pay the interest, let alone the principle, paid with money printing leads to dollar devaluation. That's not a prediction; it's a simple fact. It's occurred many many dozens of times in history without one single situation where such a foolish ponzi has worked (it's impossible to ever work. ponzis can't be sustained. not a prediction. fact). Everything you list is a deflationary drop in real value, not nominal value. Without a serious change in Obamanomic stupidity, there still would be a massive inflation of the money supply leading to dollar devaluation.

Throwing out random stats is pretty meaningless without the full picture. Japan owes the money mostly to themselves, and they don't have some bogus made-up concept known as a "consumer economy." We are increasingly in debt and owned by the world, and kept afloat by a giant ponzi known as the above mentioned bullshet "consumer economy." We are seriously screwed and lead by politicians trying every idiot move in the book for short term gain (ie, reelection) at the expense of long term collapse.

Nobody has ever borrowed, printed, and wasted money as a means to prosperity. That's not much of a prediction either. Just a simple mathematical impossibility. Put in basic terms, would a broke bankrupt individual practicing personal Obamanomics work his way out of debt by borrowing increasingly more money and then throwing the overwhelming majority of that cash into a burning fireplace? It's not much of a prediction to say no it won't help him, and it won't help the US with the government practicing the same policy on a grander scale. If you can prove that mathematically impossible concept has ever or would ever work, I'll forward you my income for the remainder of my lifetime.

The only possible way to keep ahead of this ponzi is through economic growth with significant technological advances. That's like likely to occur when you are buried further in debt and blowing what limited resources are left on consumer junk that returns nothing. But ponzi-ing your way further into the ponzi, as Obama is doing dropping trillions like they are quarters, is heading you further down the hole potentially making 2008 and 2009 look like a cakewalk compared to where this ugliness is heading.
 
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