prelim&categorical at same hosp?

[doc39]

hey guys....

am applying to neuro and IM .... now does it look bad to apply to IM prelim and categorical at same hosp?

thanks bunches

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[haydoori]

Hi, i am applying for radiology Residency and it requires a year of internship so i have to apply for an IM preliminary position,at the same time i want to apply for IM categorical position(as back up) at the same program. how should i do that? which personal statement should i send to the IM program(the one that explains my intentions to go to radiology or the one that showes how much i love IM(for categorical positions))?

anyone has an idea? thank you very much

 

[haydoori]

Hi, i am applying for radiology Residency and it requires a year of internship so i have to apply for an IM preliminary position,at the same time i want to apply for IM categorical position(as back up) at the same program. how should i do that? which personal statement should i send to the IM program(the one that explains my intentions to go to radiology or the one that showes how much i love IM(for categorical positions))?

anyone has an idea? thank you very much

 

[DERMLOVER]

Hi, i am applying for radiology Residency and it requires a year of internship so i have to apply for an IM preliminary position,at the same time i want to apply for IM categorical position(as back up) at the same program. how should i do that? which personal statement should i send to the IM program(the one that explains my intentions to go to radiology or the one that showes how much i love IM(for categorical positions))?

anyone has an idea? thank you very much

first you should know that you cannot apply for both of them at the same place and that is clear....and it is ok to send your radiology PS for the IM prelim...

 

[razorback58]

Why are there prelim years? Either you have a spot for them or you don't. I think it is to use PGY1's as slave labor and screw them up for several years or life.

I would never go into a program like that no matter how bad I wanted it. I know it works out really well for some but for others it turns into a nighmare. I have seen it happen.

I know a guy that did a year of internal medicine as a prelim and now trying for ER. He wasted a year in IM - having to sit out the second year because the IM people did not give him enough interview time off. His 3 year residency has now turned into a minimum of 5 years to complete if he even gets into the ER program.

What a bummer.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Hi, i am applying for radiology Residency and it requires a year of internship so i have to apply for an IM preliminary position,at the same time i want to apply for IM categorical position(as back up) at the same program. how should i do that? which personal statement should i send to the IM program(the one that explains my intentions to go to radiology or the one that showes how much i love IM(for categorical positions))?

anyone has an idea? thank you very much

If you try to do this (apply to both cat and prelim IM at the same program) it will be very clear that IM is your backup. Your PS won't be fooling anyone. Some programs might interview you anyway, as radilogy candidates usually have great academic credentials. Some will decline to interview you, worried that you'll simply apply to rads again next year and bail from the program, or simply bail from the program because you really don't like IM.

It might also reflect badly on your radiology application. Theoretically, a rad's PD could say "well, if you are applying to IM, I guess you're not really interested in rads". Personally I think that's crazy, but it could happen.

Safest thing to do is not apply to Cat IM and Prelim IM at the same program. Apply to some separate Cat IM programs.

 

[Law2Doc]

Why are there prelim years? Either you have a spot for them or you don't. I think it is to use PGY1's as slave labor and screw them up for several years or life.

I would never go into a program like that no matter how bad I wanted it. I know it works out really well for some but for others it turns into a nighmare. I have seen it happen.

I know a guy that did a year of internal medicine as a prelim and now trying for ER. He wasted a year in IM - having to sit out the second year because the IM people did not give him enough interview time off. His 3 year residency has now turned into a minimum of 5 years to complete if he even gets into the ER program.

What a bummer.

I'm not sure I understand your post or perhaps you don't understand the prelim year. Generally the majority of folks do a prelim year prior to going into an advanced program. A smaller percentage do prelim years because they haven't decided on a path, or they didn't get an advanced slot. For the "advanced" programs, you wouldn't need time off to interview -- you generally set those up through ERAS at the same time as the prelim year. It's just that programs like derm, rads, ophtho, gas generally want you to come in as a licensed experienced PGY2. So you really just need time during the internship to take Step 3, and to pay your dues for a year as a slave laborer. Folks who can get into a transitional year generally would do that instead, but those who have to do prelim just keep their head down for a year. So I don't get the whole "either you have a spot for them or you don't". Most people in prelim years don't want a permanent gig in IM. It won't be a wasted year, it will be a mandatory one for those already matched and bound for the ROAD specialties.

 

[Law2Doc]

first you should know that you cannot apply for both of them at the same place and that is clear....and it is ok to send your radiology PS for the IM prelim...

Well, to clarify: you can apply for both prelim and categorical IM at the same places, and you can apply for both prelim and rads at the same places. But you wouldn't want to apply for categorical IM and rads at the same place, because then the place knows you aren't committed to one path.

 

[Blade28]

Merging duplicate threads.

 

[soulofmpatel]

I hope not...because I'm doing the same thing

 

[tno77]

how exactly do you plan on doing this?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yes, it looks bad.

This has been addressed here several times before.

If you are applying to categorical IM as a back-up in case you don't match into Neuro, how do you plan on going about explaining that to them? Most PDs aren't particularly interested in ranking someone who is using them as a backup and will likely bail as soon as they find a job in the specialty they really want to be in.

Bottom line: do not apply for both Prelim and Categorical positions at the same program unless you are using the PRELIM as a back-up in case you don't get Categorical.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Since this is the 3rd thread on this topic in as many days, I will merge this with the other threads which have already been merged.

 

[Terpskins99]

What about applying to two different residencies at the same hospital? Is it likely the two program directors would know (barring a chance conversation between them about me)?

I am applying to radiology and neurology and applied to both residencies at the same hospital in several cases. I would really love to pursue radiology, but I would be fine doing neurology if I had to and later pursue a neurorads fellowship. But I'm wondering how likely the two PD's would know I applied to both?

Thanks!

 

[haydoori]

thanx guys for your great help and detailed responses. i do appreciate that

 

[rox]

Bottom line: do not apply for both Prelim and Categorical positions at the same program unless you are using the PRELIM as a back-up in case you don't get Categorical.

So how do you let the program know that you're actually interested in their Categorical position but would also take the Pelim one in case you don't get any Categorical? They would probably decline to interview the applicant for both positions unless they were notified before they receive the applications.

 

[Winged Scapula]

So how do you let the program know that you're actually interested in their Categorical position but would also take the Pelim one in case you don't get any Categorical? They would probably decline to interview the applicant for both positions unless they were notified before they receive the applications.

When you interview.

You ask them if this would be a consideration ( a bad one in most cases, as its almost always better to take a Categorical than a prelim). If they indicate it would be, submit an application for the Prelim position and rank accordingly.

I would follow it up with a letter reminding them that you are so interested in their wonderful program that you would consider a Prelim position over a Categorical position elsewhere, should they decide not to rank you for Categorical.

 

[Samoa]

When you interview.

You ask them if this would be a consideration ( a bad one in most cases, as its almost always better to take a Categorical than a prelim). If they indicate it would be, submit an application for the Prelim position and rank accordingly.

I would follow it up with a letter reminding them that you are so interested in their wonderful program that you would consider a Prelim position over a Categorical position elsewhere, should they decide not to rank you for Categorical.

Do you really think any PD would believe this? Or believe the applicant was sane if they really felt that way?

Granted, I lack your experience with the other side of this process, so I'll take your word for it. But wouldn't it be better to stick to statements that at least sound like they could be true?

Or are program directors really that narcissistic?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Do you really think any PD would believe this? Or believe the applicant was sane if they really felt that way?

Granted, I lack your experience with the other side of this process, so I'll take your word for it. But wouldn't it be better to stick to statements that at least sound like they could be true?

Or are program directors really that narcissistic?

We're not narcissistic, at least not most of us. We want our programs full, though.

I would simply say that you would want to be listed on the prelim list also if possible. Everyone knows that you'll likely list all your Cat programs first, and then prelims. But just in case you don't match to a Cat position, this gives you a chance at a prelim -- and for me, it can't really hurt to list you on the prelim list. We don't pay "by the rank", and if you don't match, I just go down one more on the list.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Do you really think any PD would believe this? Or believe the applicant was sane if they really felt that way?

Granted, I lack your experience with the other side of this process, so I'll take your word for it. But wouldn't it be better to stick to statements that at least sound like they could be true?

Or are program directors really that narcissistic?

Sure some PDs are narcissistic.

Besides, every year on SDN, there is at least 1 person who claims they want to go hospital X so bad they will take a Prelim position there over a Categorical position elsewhere. Its been the start of many a sad story here, filled with regrets (but that is for another time).

Therefore, I know that this IS plausible, students do sometimes want to do this, so I see nothing that doesn't "sound true". However, a noted by apd above, we know that only the very naive, stupid or uninformed will rank a Prelim position over a Categorical but it doesn't hurt to tell a program that you would consider a Prelim position. I am assuming, except in the sad cases above, that you mean you would take a Prelim position IF and ONLY IF you didn't match into a Categorical elsewhere so I am asking you to consider ranking me for Prelim if you don't for Categorical.