Prelim Programs: where to find info?????

[Gute]

Is there any site that gives information about preliminary programs or way to find out about these programs?

For example, if you go to most gen surgery or internal medicine residency website, they will speak at length about their categorical positions but will rarely give any word at all about their preliminary positions.

As someone who is going into an advanced program after the prelim, I don't care about the months of trauma as a pgy-2 or the primary care track for categorical medicine applicants. What I do care about is the number of elective months, the number of preliminary positions available, number of ICU mos., call schedule, mechanism of interviewing (some don't require interview, some accomodate when you are their for the advanced program interview, some want you to come back for a whole other day with the categorical applicants).

To make matters worse, it is very difficult to even get information from the programs I am interested in. I have emailed many PCs, and often times won't even get a response for more information. I'm just extraordinarily frustrated since I am essentially volunteering to be slave labor before I move on to greener pastures, and the least these programs could do to recruit me would be to give me some basic information. Any suggestions?

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[Law2Doc]

Is there any site that gives information about preliminary programs or way to find out about these programs?

For example, if you go to most gen surgery or internal medicine residency website, they will speak at length about their categorical positions but will rarely give any word at all about their preliminary positions.

As someone who is going into an advanced program after the prelim, I don't care about the months of trauma as a pgy-2 or the primary care track for categorical medicine applicants. What I do care about is the number of elective months, the number of preliminary positions available, number of ICU mos., call schedule, mechanism of interviewing (some don't require interview, some accomodate when you are their for the advanced program interview, some want you to come back for a whole other day with the categorical applicants).

To make matters worse, it is very difficult to even get information from the programs I am interested in. I have emailed many PCs, and often times won't even get a response for more information. I'm just extraordinarily frustrated since I am essentially volunteering to be slave labor before I move on to greener pastures, and the least these programs could do to recruit me would be to give me some basic information. Any suggestions?

If the info is not on their website, and the program hasn't been discussed on SDN, the only places you are going to get details are if you actually go on an interview, or know any alumni who went there. There isn't really a published guide to prelim spots.

Bear in mind that many of these places aren't going to look at it as having to "recruit" you. There are more applicants than spots in the match, and so if a place is desirable (eg has lots of cushy elective time, etc), it will have no trouble filling up. Also bear in mind that a lot of other factors are going to play a role in how rough your intern year will be besides simply numbers of electives and ICU months. If the place is malignant, and the PD is a SOB, it's going to be a bad year even if it offers an extra elective month. If the place is amazingly benign with great people, you may enjoy it even though it comes with an extra ICU month. So you are really better off finding someone in or recently through that program to spill the beans than you are in collecting the kind of data you are requesting.

 

[Gute]

If the info is not on their website, and the program hasn't been discussed on SDN, the only places you are going to get details are if you actually go on an interview, or know any alumni who went there. There isn't really a published guide to prelim spots.

Bear in mind that many of these places aren't going to look at it as having to "recruit" you. There are more applicants than spots in the match, and so if a place is desirable (eg has lots of cushy elective time, etc), it will have no trouble filling up. Also bear in mind that a lot of other factors are going to play a role in how rough your intern year will be besides simply numbers of electives and ICU months. If the place is malignant, and the PD is a SOB, it's going to be a bad year even if it offers an extra elective month. If the place is amazingly benign with great people, you may enjoy it even though it comes with an extra ICU month. So you are really better off finding someone in or recently through that program to spill the beans than you are in collecting the kind of data you are requesting.

Bear in mind that most unfilled programs in the match are preliminary programs.

 

[gutonc]

Bear in mind that most unfilled programs in the match are preliminary programs.

True for surgery, but not for IM in general.

 

[Law2Doc]

True for surgery, but not for IM in general.

Agreed. Plus, the OP seems to want to know the cushier ones, and these ones all fill.

 

[Gute]

Agreed. Plus, the OP seems to want to know the cushier ones, and these ones all fill.

Assumed incorrectly. My motivations are location>cushiness, and therefore I applied to more gen surg than TY and IM. Though cushiness is of course a factor. Cushiness is also not easy to tease out: just because a program has 4 mo of electives doesnt mean the other 8 will be cush.

 

[Law2Doc]

...Cushiness is also not easy to tease out: just because a program has 4 mo of electives doesnt mean the other 8 will be cush.

Um, yeah, that's what I was talking about above when I said "Also bear in mind that a lot of other factors are going to play a role in how rough your intern year will be besides simply numbers of electives and ICU months. If the place is malignant, and the PD is a SOB, it's going to be a bad year even if it offers an extra elective month. ..."

Again, talk to people who have been through the program. They are the ones who can tell you what's what.

 

[Gute]

Again, talk to people who have been through the program. They are the ones who can tell you what's what.

Kinda hard when you are deciding where to interview though. Goes back to my original point: there is hardly any info available, even spin from the program itself. Often times the only info I can find is the salary which honestly is not important to me as other information.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Go to the AMA's Freida website. Go to program search. Click Internal Medicine.

Click "Optional Criteria" and scroll down to the "Offers Prelim Positions" and choose affirmatively.

You then pick a state or region of the country under "Choose Location". There are too many programs in the US for Freida to handle a nationwide search.

Click search plus and you will find the prelim programs in the state or region that interests you.

 

[Law2Doc]

Go to the AMA's Freida website. Go to program search. Click Internal Medicine.

Click "Optional Criteria" and scroll down to the "Offers Prelim Positions" and choose affirmatively.

You then pick a state or region of the country under "Choose Location". There are too many programs in the US for Freida to handle a nationwide search.

Click search plus and you will find the prelim programs in the state or region that interests you.

I think he wants details about call schedules, electives, and ICU months that won't be found in Frieda...

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I think he wants details about call schedules, electives, and ICU months that won't be found in Frieda...

Most of the cursory program descriptions in FREIDA have a link to the actual residency programs. In some/many instances the link will take you to a full blown description of the residency program including the prelim year. For example the Bassett program in Cooperstown, New York gives a nice description of its offering for the prelim year.

I would focus on the prelim programs in the geographic area where the student has an eye on an advanced residency.

 

[Law2Doc]

Most of the cursory program descriptions in FREIDA have a link to the actual residency programs. In some/many instances the link will take you to a full blown description of the residency program including the prelim year. For example the Bassett program in Cooperstown, New York gives a nice description of its offering for the prelim year.

I would focus on the prelim programs in the geographic area where the student has an eye on an advanced residency.

If you look at OP's post, he's already looked at the individual residency programs' websites and didn't find that adequate, so going through FREIDA is just going to put him back to where he started.

 

[Gute]

If you look at OP's post, he's already looked at the individual residency programs' websites and didn't find that adequate, so going through FREIDA is just going to put him back to where he started.

thank you for understanding my post.

obviously, i used freida to search for prelims in the locations I wanted.

going to a prelim interview on Tuesday. I have no idea what this program is like, as the PC didn't have any meaningful info to give me, the website makes no mention of the prelim positions, and the only reviews I can find of the program are from scutwork.com and written by a chief resident (surgical program so not helpful for what I am going to be doing) back in 2001.

I honestly have no idea what I am getting myself into, and if I am going to be wasting my time this week.