Premed here wanting to know why people take the COMLEX and the USMLE.

[ooxkenxoo]

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Hi there,
I'm a pre-med with interviews at the 2 Touro's and LECOM's. (Crossing fingers.) I'm wondering why osteo med students take both the COMLEX and the USMLE. I talked to a professor at Western who thought take both was unnecessary. Isn't the COMLEX sufficient? Do people take the USMLE so they can get into allopathic residencies? Thanks!

 

[It'sElectric]

Hi there,
I'm a pre-med with interviews at the 2 Touro's and LECOM's. (Crossing fingers.) I'm wondering why osteo med students take both the COMLEX and the USMLE. I talked to a professor at Western who thought take both was unnecessary. Isn't the COMLEX sufficient? Do people take the USMLE so they can get into allopathic residencies? Thanks!

Some people take the USMLE, because they believe (and rightfully so) that it will improve their chances when competing at some allopathic residencies. It all makes sense, when you consider that residency directors are just trying to compare all applicants on a level ground. If everyone applicant takes the USMLE, then you can easily compare each applicant.

That being said, you do NOT have to take the USMLE in order to apply for allopathic residencies.

 

[Hernandez]

Hi there,
I'm a pre-med with interviews at the 2 Touro's and LECOM's. (Crossing fingers.) I'm wondering why osteo med students take both the COMLEX and the USMLE. I talked to a professor at Western who thought take both was unnecessary. Isn't the COMLEX sufficient? Do people take the USMLE so they can get into allopathic residencies? Thanks!

there seem to be 2 main reasins. 1) to apply to competitive allo residencies. 2) prove they can pass it and validate their education.

 

[Ifellinapothole]

Hi there,
I'm a pre-med with interviews at the 2 Touro's and LECOM's. (Crossing fingers.) I'm wondering why osteo med students take both the COMLEX and the USMLE. I talked to a professor at Western who thought take both was unnecessary. Isn't the COMLEX sufficient? Do people take the USMLE so they can get into allopathic residencies? Thanks!

1) depends who you talk to and what you want to go into.

2) generally, from what I have been able to determine, if you are uncertain you want to go into a more competitive residency and/or fellowship (i.e. all), you should take USMLE.

3) I am taking USMLE to deal w/ my inferiority complex at not having gotten into an MD school.

 

[It'sElectric]

2) prove they can pass it and validate there education.

Honestly? I'm not going to debate that, because I can't prove it either way. If so, those people = foolish. Why would you ever put yourself through that sort of punishment just to "validate" your education?? That'd be like attending medical school just to prove that you can do it (and for no other reason).

 

[Hernandez]

Honestly? I'm not going to debate that, because I can't prove it either way. If so, those people = foolish. .

I think you're deluding yourself if you don't think that this thought isn't in
the back of many osteo students who take USLME. It was part of my reasoning and I'm not ashamed to admit it nor will your adomonishment make me regret it in any way. and frankly, i'm glad I dId. i did get to see how much better usmle- is written than comlEx.


and my wife can tell ya, I do lot's of stuff just see if I can.

 

[It'sElectric]

I think you're deluding yourself if you don't think that this thought isn't in
the back of many osteo students who take USLME. It was part of my reasoning and I'm not ashamed to admit it nor will your adomonishment make me regret it in any way. and frankly, i'm glad I dId. i did get to see how much better usmle- is written than comlEx.


and my wife can tell ya, I do lot's of stuff just see if I can.

Like I said, I'm not going to debate, you because I honestly don't know.

Still doesn't negate the fact that I think it's asinine to do it solely for those reasons. Trying something on your wife just to see if you can is a whole other story in and of itself - who doesn't like trying an occasional this or that with their partner?

 

[Hernandez]

Still doesn't negate the fact that I think it's asinine to do it solely for those reasons.

hmm, I don't recall using the word solely or making the implication that the two were mutually exclussive.

 

[It'sElectric]

hmm, I don't recall using the word solely or making the implication that the two were mutually exclussive.

My bad, I didn't know we were taking a multiple choice exam. When someone says there are 2 main reasons that people take the usmle, with one of them being to "prove that they can pass it and validate their education", I inferred that to mean that is the reason they took the exam. Silly me.

 

[cabinbuilder]

So I was one of those who didn't take the USMLE on principle and the fact that I couldn't afford it. I applied to allopathic general surgery programs and did not get one interview. When I called to see why I couldn't even scramble into allopathic programs after the match I was basically told that the secretary looks at the checklist of applications. If you do not have that USMLE score there then your app goes in the garbage. So here I am one year later taking the USMLE and reapplying to general surgery. It's a pain but the good thing is that because I am DO I do not have to take Step I, I am only taking Step II CK so I have that on my ERAS application. If you can get into an allopathic residency without it, good for you. For me I found it was an uphill battle I could not win.

 

[WestcoastMedicine]

Unless you KNOW you are going to do well on the USMLE I would advise against taking it unless you are going into an extremely competitive specialty. Also if you live in an area (philadelphia in particular for me) where there are a ton of DOs in practice, it usually is not necessary. If you have strong grades, stong letters of rec, and have a personality that gets along with those within the residency program you want, you should be fine. The test is slightly different from the COMLEX, and again unless you know your going to do awesome on it, its going to completely blow all your chances at getting an allopathic residency if you don't excel on it, that is what I have been told by people who have gone through the process already. But obviously everyone posting is just providing anecdotal evidence.

 

[Stimulate]

During one of my residency interviews I had the opportunity to view the coordinator using the ERAS (electronic residency application) program. The coordinator and program director go through a menu that allows them to "sort" applicants by specific criteria--including USMLE score. So, this was concerning to me as an osteopathic applicant (in 2002) because ERAS did not have COMLEX scores included. We had to request and submit those scores separately. So that meant that by not taking USMLE, an applicant may not have met the minimum criteria for a number or programs. However, now things might be different given that COMLEX scores go through ERAS. But do you want to bet your career on that? Also, multiple ACGME anesthesiology program directors told me during my interviews that taking USMLE step 1 was the best thing I ever did in my career.
I also took USMLE step 2 but I wish that I hadn't because I don't think it has mattered one bit in my life.

 

[Natatiap]

Isn't there a conversion from COMPLEX to USMLE? Shouldn't that be a sufficient comparison?

 

[Natatiap]

Isn't there a conversion from COMPLEX to USMLE scores? Shouldn't that be a sufficient comparison?

 

[Taus]

Isn't there a conversion from COMPLEX to USMLE scores? Shouldn't that be a sufficient comparison?

the conversion is from a very new and small study done at one school.....it would need to be very heavily evaluated before it can be called a valid conversion....for now...just take both...its not that big of a deal

 

[Old_Mil]

Hi there,
I'm a pre-med with interviews at the 2 Touro's and LECOM's. (Crossing fingers.) I'm wondering why osteo med students take both the COMLEX and the USMLE. I talked to a professor at Western who thought take both was unnecessary. Isn't the COMLEX sufficient? Do people take the USMLE so they can get into allopathic residencies? Thanks!

I'm taking the USMLE so I can take USMLE III and skip Comlex III (and by doing so be out from under the umbrella of the AOA/NBOME for good). That, and getting in to competitive ACGME residencies would be the two reasons people would want to take the USMLE.

 

[gagolden]

Take this for what you will. Im applying allopathic Internal Med, all at university and big name programs in the Midwest and the West. I recieved interviews at 17 of 19 programs. The two that rejected me are Utah and New Mexico universities. They specificially said that they will not interview without the USMLE. I would have really liked to go to both programs.

 

[st. pius v]

hey all- i was shadowing an orthopedic surgeon last week and he also happens to be the Orthopedic Surgery Department Chair and program director of the allopathic program. i asked him how they consider candidates- specifically if they prefer usmle over comlex. he said there are no differences between them and that he considers the most competitive scores. i will be taking both of them because:
1. while most allo residencies do accept comlex, i'm not taking any chances.... just want to have my bases covered "just in case".
2. if i was a program director (allo), i would like to see every candidate to be measure from a standard "yardstick", which is usmle; while not disposing of any candidates with comlex, they make the comparison a little more difficult.
3. i'm a sucker for pain- got my b.s. engineering, m.s. in engineering and now going to start med. school!! 😀 😀 what's usmle if i'm studying for my comlex anyway?

 

[VirusZapper]

Hey guys, I currently work at the NIH, and heard AACOMAS people speak. I dont remember exactly what they said, but something along the lines of the US government suggesting that the USMLE and COMLEX be evaluated on the same scale, just for this reason. Can anyone expound on this?

 

[Dr JPH]

2) prove they can pass it and validate their education.

$450.00 "just to see"?

Wow.

 

[gagolden]

Hey guys, I currently work at the NIH, and heard AACOMAS people speak. I dont remember exactly what they said, but something along the lines of the US government suggesting that the USMLE and COMLEX be evaluated on the same scale, just for this reason. Can anyone expound on this?

Dont quote me, but I think that the military programs are required to view it as equal.

 

[group_theory]

I'm taking the USMLE so I can take USMLE III and skip Comlex III (and by doing so be out from under the umbrella of the AOA/NBOME for good). That, and getting in to competitive ACGME residencies would be the two reasons people would want to take the USMLE.

Just wanted to point out that in a few states, as a DO, if you do not finish the COMLEX series, you will not be able to obtain a medical license (even if you finish all 3 USMLE steps, did an AOA-internship year, blah blah). I do know that California is one of these states where you need to pass all 3 steps of COMLEX in order to get a medical license (since you fall under the jurisdiction of the CA Board of Osteopathic Medicine, not Board of Medicine)

Also, depending on the state and it's board of medicine/osteopathic medicine, they may require you to obtain AOA CME credits every renewal cycle in order for your licensed to be renewable.

So check with the state that you are interested in practicing in to find out the exact rules.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

If you have strong grades, stong letters of rec, and have a personality that gets along with those within the residency program you want, you should be fine. QUOTE]


You could be in for a rude surprise.

 

[badgas]

I'm on the anesthesiology interview trail right now. I've been through about 8 interviews so far and at about 5 I have been complemented on taking the USMLE. I did decent but I am not one of the 260 people on the forums. Not one of those programs knew how to convert comlex to usmle. Most went by the 2 digit numbers, which are very different for comlex. I got 1 STD above the mean on BOTH exams and I've been asked several times why I did so much worse on comlex!😱 It was amazing to see that some big name programs had NO idea how to convert. If you have any hope to apply allopathic for anything, then take the USMLE and don't shut any doors for yourself. I've also been told that step 1 holds more weight than step 2 as it is used for screening. Good luck.

 

[toothless rufus]

I've also been told that step 1 holds more weight than step 2 as it is used for screening. Good luck.

So, you can just take USMLE Step 1, and be done with it?

 

[Taus]

So, you can just take USMLE Step 1, and be done with it?

yes

 

[toothless rufus]

yes

Great! Thanks!

 

[xTinaBna]

if one takes all steps of the usmle's, does that mean you do not have to take the complex at all ? or is that dependent on what state you want to practice in? thanks for any info 🙂

 

[Old_Mil]

Just wanted to point out that in a few states, as a DO, if you do not finish the COMLEX series, you will not be able to obtain a medical license (even if you finish all 3 USMLE steps, did an AOA-internship year, blah blah). I do know that California is one of these states where you need to pass all 3 steps of COMLEX in order to get a medical license (since you fall under the jurisdiction of the CA Board of Osteopathic Medicine, not Board of Medicine)

Also, depending on the state and it's board of medicine/osteopathic medicine, they may require you to obtain AOA CME credits every renewal cycle in order for your licensed to be renewable.

So check with the state that you are interested in practicing in to find out the exact rules.

I'm pretty sure this only holds true for the "five" (FL, WV, PA, OH, MI) and California due to the merger and subsequent history over there. If anyone knows of any others for sure, feel free to add to the list. Three out of those five, you probably don't want to go to anyway because of malpractice issues.

 

[Old_Mil]

if one takes all steps of the usmle's, does that mean you do not have to take the complex at all ? or is that dependent on what state you want to practice in? thanks for any info 🙂

You have to take Comlex I and II to graduate.

 

[Taus]

I'm pretty sure this only holds true for the "five" (FL, WV, PA, OH, MI) and California due to the merger and subsequent history over there. If anyone knows of any others for sure, feel free to add to the list. Three out of those five, you probably don't want to go to anyway because of malpractice issues.

I don't remember where I was reading about it...but it is individual for each state and didn't strictly follow the 5 state thing.

 

[Trevelyan]

I'm pretty sure this only holds true for the "five" (FL, WV, PA, OH, MI) and California due to the merger and subsequent history over there. If anyone knows of any others for sure, feel free to add to the list. Three out of those five, you probably don't want to go to anyway because of malpractice issues.

Is this some sort of recent rule concerning PA, because the DO I shadowed only took the USMLE, and he is not that old.

 

[group_theory]

I do know that the states that require DOs to take COMLEX for licensure does not exactly follow the 5-states that that require AOA-internship.

States with a seperate board of osteopathic medicine may be more likely to require COMLEX for licensure but there are a few states (with board of osteopathic medicine) that do accept USMLE. A short-list of states that absolutely require COMLEX for licensure is listed in the latest edition of Iserson's Residency Guide book.

Also, some states require AOA CME hours to get license renewal. Arizona requires evidence of attendance of an AOA approved educational program for at least 20 clock-hours for 1A credits annually for license renewal. California requires 150 hours of AOA or Board approved per three-year period; 60 hours must be Osteopathic Category 1A or 1B for active license. Delaware requires 40 hrs. Category 1 AOA approved per biennal registration period.

For PA, the board of osteopathic medicine require proof of completion of an AOA-approved intern year, passage of the COMLEX, FLEX, or a board approved test (NBME or USMLE is not listed as board approved). Now you can get a training license (residency) but you need the above for unrestricted license.

 

[Hernandez]

$450.00 "just to see"?

Wow.

What? I've got 15K in an old truck which I decided just to see if I could fit a newer model fuel injection engine from a corvette in. It fits, and I passed USMLE, so I guess it all worked out in the end.

 

[MD/DO ALMOST]

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