Preparing for clinical path last 3 years...change of plans...could use advice

[Dirkwww]

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The last 3 years of my undergrad have been spent preparing for clinical psychology. I have .5 years of research in a social psychology lab, 1 year of research experience in a child development lab, 4 years in a genetics lab that works with clinical populations, great GPA, the right classes, a BA in psychology and a minor in neuroscience. I am even set to do an honors thesis next school year that is clinical in nature, and I am taking the GRE at the end of august. I had always wanted to get a Phd and do the clinical psychology path. But a few weeks ago, really thinking about the schooling, the actual job of clinical counseling, the internship crisis, the job market, the starting and maintaining salaries, and the commitment/ opportunity cost hit me, and i think i have finally decided this is not the path i want to take. Sadly it took me till the summer before my senior year to realize this, and now i feel kind of screwed. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to paths i could follow or just advice in general. I feel like i have built up skills and experience that is not too transferable to other occupational realms. I have been thinking about possibly a Phd in social psychology or I/O but im not sure where that would take me. I love working with children for the record, so that is another option. Market/product research is something that has been appealing to me lately and seems really interesting, though i have no experience for this besides the stats from research. Does anyone have any advice or words of wisdom? Should i continue the honors thesis, or perhaps drop it and pick up another minor?

Sorry for the rant, and thanks to those who read and help

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

If you have the coursework, Med School. If you don't have the coursework, spend some extra time as an undergrad, then go to Med School. Sounds like you've got at least a year anyway. If that's not appealing, you should look into Quant Psych. There are more jobs than Quant psychologists (highest demand among the psych disciplines), and you could really do research in about any area you want (in addition to quant research). Not to bash social psych, but the job market for social is getting ridiculous. I know a few stellar applicants that can't get jobs and they've been trying for years. I/O can be quite lucrative on the applied side, but other than that I know very little about it, so I can't offer any real insight there.

 

[thewesternsky]

My best advice is not to get a PhD in anything (including I/O or social psychology) if you are not absolutely passionate about the subject. The job market in academia now is arguably much worse than the market in clinical psychology, and the commitment and opportunity costs in academia are just as high if not higher than in clinical psychology practice.

Take some time and look into your options. You can talk to someone at your university career advisement office as well. You may need to get more experience before applying to these jobs or training programs, but off the top of my head some career paths that will value your experience to date (including the honours thesis) are:

-Lab Manager / Research Coordinator Positions
-Social Work
-Speech and Language Pathology
-Occupational Therapy
-Market Research
-Medical School (?)

 

[bmedclinic]

If you have the coursework, Med School. If you don't have the coursework, spend some extra time as an undergrad, then go to Med School. Sounds like you've got at least a year anyway. If that's not appealing, you should look into Quant Psych. There are more jobs than Quant psychologists (highest demand among the psych disciplines), and you could really do research in about any area you want (in addition to quant research). Not to bash social psych, but the job market for social is getting ridiculous. I know a few stellar applicants that can't get jobs and they've been trying for years. I/O can be quite lucrative on the applied side, but other than that I know very little about it, so I can't offer any real insight there.

+1 for Quant.
My backup plan if I didnt get into phd programs the first time around was to get my certification in SAS and get a job doing data analysis while attempting to get in a second round. Dont get me wrong, I'm not upset I got in the first time around, but I kinda wish I had that SAS certficiation on my vita now.

 

[mcvcm92]

Take some time and look into your options. You can talk to someone at your university career advisement office as well. You may need to get more experience before applying to these jobs or training programs, but off the top of my head some career paths that will value your experience to date (including the honours thesis) are:

-Lab Manager / Research Coordinator Positions
-Social work
-Speech and Language Pathology
-Occupational Therapy
-Market Research
-Medical School (?)

I'd second social work, based on you wrote about your interest in child psychology. You can actually conduct private practice with a masters in social work if that interests you. Also, I'd recommend for you to look into school psychology, it's similar to clinical psychology, but has more of an emphasis on child development in the school context (in addition to psychoeducational testing for special education). Best of luck!

 

[pretzels]

It's uncanny how similar the OP's life, thought processes and concerns ran / run the same route as mine.

I was groomed to be a grad student in psychology from sophomore year, and had my eyes set on that as my one and only goal. I discounted psychiatry early on thinking i could never be a physician, put the blinders on and never let myself question my choice. This last year, reading psychologists posts on SDN; the over saturation of psychologists in the field due to FSPSs, the subsequently incredibly competitive job market compounded with (relatively) lower pay across most positions for psychologists.. it was all very disheartening. Did a good job of taking the steam out of me.

Now, while i study for the GREs and plan out my application for 2014 and the professors and schools i want to go, i simultaneously have this weight in my stomach making me wonder whether i should return to undergrad for premed and try for psychiatry after all... the few people i've talked to about this told me i'm young enough and have the GPA that its not too late to turn around for pre med and then med school, but im worried that the economic / job prospects reason is really too hollow a reason to change my career path. So i'm similarly stuck at a very sharp crossroad in my life...

/minor derail

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Yes, economic prospects are not a sufficient reason to go for psychiatry. However, there are other major reasons that some psychologists, self included, wish they would have gone to med school:

1. Psychiatrists are greatly needed in most every part of the country. I imagine it is gratifying to be able to fill a need like that.
2. Psychiatrists can do therapy if they choose.
3. Medication management is a huge part of the wellness plans for many mental health patients today. Seeing medication managed poorly or inadequately has made me want to get in there and "do it right". As I was getting into this field, I minimized the usefulness of meds and overestimated the power of therapy. Both are important, but I guess I never realized that so many clients would be on meds.

Dr. E

 

[edieb]

It's uncanny how similar the OP's life, thought processes and concerns ran / run the same route as mine.

I was groomed to be a grad student in psychology from sophomore year, and had my eyes set on that as my one and only goal. I discounted psychiatry early on thinking i could never be a physician, put the blinders on and never let myself question my choice. This last year, reading psychologists posts on SDN; the over saturation of psychologists in the field due to FSPSs, the subsequently incredibly competitive job market compounded with (relatively) lower pay across most positions for psychologists.. it was all very disheartening. Did a good job of taking the steam out of me.

Now, while i study for the GREs and plan out my application for 2014 and the professors and schools i want to go, i simultaneously have this weight in my stomach making me wonder whether i should return to undergrad for premed and try for psychiatry after all... the few people i've talked to about this told me i'm young enough and have the GPA that its not too late to turn around for pre med and then med school, but im worried that the economic / job prospects reason is really too hollow a reason to change my career path. So i'm similarly stuck at a very sharp crossroad in my life...

/minor derail

Pretzels, I really urge you to go into psychiatry. You can do everything a psychologist can do as an M.D. (assessment, therapy, etc) but earn a higher dollar amount. Although some of the coursework in medical school may not interest you you will have many boring courses in graduate school, too. At least when you receive your M.D. the struggle is over and when you receive the Ph.D. the struggle is never ending

 

[WisNeuro]

Pretzels, I really urge you to go into psychiatry. You can do everything a psychologist can do as an M.D. (assessment, therapy, etc)

I've seen M.D.s do "assessment." Not good my friend. When I get MoCA's and MMSE's from Neurology, I discount them immediately. Also, trying to explain to MD's that the tasks done during a WADA are not actually a test of memory ability was like herding cats. Assessment, especially neuropsych, is best left to neuropsychologists. I have seen many a misguided treatment rec made from poor "assessments" done by MD's.

 

[edieb]

If they choose, they can get the training and do a good job. Your n = 1 experience is not a good reason to dissuade the OP from med school

 

[WisNeuro]

After 3 hospitals, it's more like a n of 20.

I'm just wondering where the medschool rec is coming from. Nothing in the OP's 1st post made me think that med school was the right way for him. Doesn't sound like he's passionate about that either. And 100k+ in debt and x number of years later is not a good way to "find it out."

I would dissuade him from jumping into any large commitment, grad school, med school, clown school, etc until he actually has some idea of what he would like to do. Take a year or two off, live a little, see if anything strikes your fancy

 

[PhDToBe]

If med school is something s/he is considering, two shorter options that both earn a lot are nursing and then nurse practitioner or physician's assistant.

 

[Dirkwww]

After 3 hospitals, it's more like a n of 20.

I'm just wondering where the medschool rec is coming from. Nothing in the OP's 1st post made me think that med school was the right way for him. Doesn't sound like he's passionate about that either. And 100k+ in debt and x number of years later is not a good way to "find it out."

I would dissuade him from jumping into any large commitment, grad school, med school, clown school, etc until he actually has some idea of what he would like to do. Take a year or two off, live a little, see if anything strikes your fancy

haha i dont have any scopes on med school

 

[coldsweat]

I'll second the recommendation about school psychology because you mentioned an interest in working with children. You are not required to complete an APA-accredited internship to complete school psychology programs, because you can complete internships in school districts. Not completing your internship at an APA-accredited internship site effectively prevents you from working in a clinical setting outside of the schools, but if your only goal is to work in the schools or go into academia, then this issue isn't a problem. My impression is that the job market for school psychology faculty positions isn't as competitive as the job market for clinical psychology faculty either. A graduate of my program recently obtained a faculty job with 5 pubs, which is probably on the low end for clinical psychology faculty applicants. Despite the budget cuts in schools, there's typically a good amount of openings because of the demand to complete psychoeducational assessments required by federal law.

Also, the recommendations about quantitative psychology are good, just because it'll give you the flexibility to work in multiple fields.

 

[sunshine008]

Sadly it took me till the summer before my senior year to realize this, and now i feel kind of screwed.

It took me until the end of my first year in my clinical program to realize this. You still have plenty of time. I second talking to a career counselor.

 

[undecidedman]

+1 for Quant.
My backup plan if I didnt get into phd programs the first time around was to get my certification in SAS and get a job doing data analysis while attempting to get in a second round. Dont get me wrong, I'm not upset I got in the first time around, but I kinda wish I had that SAS certficiation on my vita now.

Are there courses available to learn SAS or get certified?

 

[bmedclinic]

Re: quant.. yes.. Do I know where? No. They were offered through my MA program, with the understanding being that the stats classes there were intensive enough (and SAS focused-- they also have a quant MA program) that it sets you up for the first step of the exam. IIRC, there's like 3 steps to the exam and after you pass the first one you're eligible for jobs that net about 50k with the third step netting up to 100k. Not a bad gig if you just love numbers. This is all based on my recollection of a convo with a quant psychologist in 2008, so take it with a pretty big grain of salt.

EDIT: here's a link, which also should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[undecidedman]

Re: quant.. yes.. Do I know where? No. They were offered through my MA program, with the understanding being that the stats classes there were intensive enough (and SAS focused-- they also have a quant MA program) that it sets you up for the first step of the exam. IIRC, there's like 3 steps to the exam and after you pass the first one you're eligible for jobs that net about 50k with the third step netting up to 100k. Not a bad gig if you just love numbers. This is all based on my recollection of a convo with a quant psychologist in 2008, so take it with a pretty big grain of salt.

EDIT: here's a link, which also should be taken with a grain of salt.

thanks for the quick reply!

Are Ph.D's in quant psych fully funded usually? I'm spoiled by looking at clinical programs that list out this information online, whereas other programs barely mention costs/waivers/etc.

 

[docma]

I'd suggest making your thesis direction related to your core interests in some way and considering work in the field before direct entry to graduate school--and I mean "in the field" in a broad way so you can sort out whether you want a business/entrepreneurial/corporate direction (therefore IO) or work with kids in school or medical settings (therefore a developmental or education direction or even MPH). You can keep many doors open with your current preparation and should give some time to seeing WHO you want to be working with. That is very hard to judge from within school unless you have had a compelling internship experience of some kind. You might also talk to your schools grants/fellowships office, as there are post-grad year-long fellowships (like Watson and Coro) that help you find a direction through exploration of various tracks or interests.