Preparing for the inevitable

[mentos]

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Pharmacy is changing for the worst. New grads are getting $10-20/hr less than current Rphs and old timers are now targets for layoffs and firings. Expect more of these firings to come and wages to decrease even more. No pharmacist job is secure anymore. No matter how good or invaluable you think you are, the fact is you can be replaced by a new hire who makes $20-40k less to do the same job.

What are some things we can do to prepare ourselves? Let's come up with some contingency plans.

Prepharms: don't even think about applying for pharmacy school. Run away and don't look back.

Current pharmacy students: it is never too late to turn back. If you have less than $100k in loans, that amount can be paid off with an average 50k-75k job that most college graduates have.

Pharmacy students about to graduate: you'll probably have to work in BFE fighting for more than 30 hrs per week. Continue to live like a student and pay those loans off ASAP. Don't be a consumer, don't but a new car, don't but crap you don't need. Start to plan your next career.

Rphs in their 30s-40s: by now your student loans should be paid off and you should have a good amount of equity in your home. Continue to max out retirement accounts and invest as much as possible in taxable. Look into other careers or opening a franchise.

Rphs in their 50s-60s: by now you should have a high net worth with no debt, a paid off house, if you have kids they are financially independent adults. You will be the first to be fired or laid off and the last to get hired again. But that shouldn't phase you since you should have a few million if not more from making six figures for decades. Consider moving to a low cost area to live like a king. Do something you love like teach high school science or coach a sports team.

 

[ancienbon]

It is true. I hope people don't take op 'post lightly. I had a conversation with the scheduler after my former partner got fired. He told me it has been happening and it will keep happening.

 

[Stella14]

That’s not how reality plays out.
You have job losses , house losses, divorces, sick kids, your illness, kids that come back home and live off you, no dual income for some reason or another so consider yourself well off if you have no debt and a well maintained house that is paid off and great retirement .... at ANY age or nowadays ever!

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Pharmacy is changing for the worst. New grads are getting $10-20/hr less than current Rphs and old timers are now targets for layoffs and firings. Expect more of these firings to come and wages to decrease even more. No pharmacist job is secure anymore. No matter how good or invaluable you think you are, the fact is you can be replaced by a new hire who makes $20-40k less to do the same job.

From what I’ve been hearing from my colleagues, salaries in “nontraditional” areas that retail/hospital pharmacists usually try to escape to are also dropping-Medical information, prior authorizations, call center/MTM etc. So the grass is definitely not greener on the other side - matter of fact it is yellow. Who can confirm?

 

[PharmtoCS]

From what I’ve been hearing from my colleagues, salaries in “nontraditional” areas that retail/hospital pharmacists usually try to escape to are also dropping-Medical information, prior authorizations, call center/MTM etc. So the grass is definitely not greener on the other side - matter of fact it is yellow. Who can confirm?

These unicorn jobs are highly sought after with thousands of people trying to escape retail and even hospital. It’s only going to be a matter of time before employers figure out they can replace experienced employees with inexperienced ones for rates lower than in retail.

 

[MatCauthon]

From what I’ve been hearing from my colleagues, salaries in “nontraditional” areas that retail/hospital pharmacists usually try to escape to are also dropping-Medical information, prior authorizations, call center/MTM etc. So the grass is definitely not greener on the other side - matter of fact it is yellow. Who can confirm?

these non-traditional jobs are historically unstable and undergo large layoffs periodically. many rph positions can actually be run by techs in these fields, but im sure they won't hesitate to bring in some very low paid rphs if they have need. I used to work in specialty and much of the work can be run by techs.

 

[BMBiology]

“Insert a new buzzword here” will save us!

 

[projektreverb]

“Insert a new buzzword here” will save us!

Clinical pharmacy!!

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

“Insert a new buzzword here” will save us!

The market is cyclical and will correct itself within the next 3-5 years!!

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I don't think they will try to eliminate all of the old pharmacists. That's a law suit waiting to happen. They'll just not give us raises and let inflation do the work. Much cleaner solution.

 

[projektreverb]

I don't think they will try to eliminate all of the old pharmacists. That's a law suit waiting to happen. They'll just not give us raises and let inflation do the work. Much cleaner solution.

Or metrics you out. But seriously, I’ve been on this forum for 10ish months. I’m not sure if this forum is just a sounding board for people, but I have yet to see any action from anyone here. From the outside, we just look like a bunch of whiners.... Real talk, anyone have a feasible, actionable course we can take? And spamming the prepharm forum or pulling a chicken little aren’t options. What are some actions we could feasibly do to save this profession? Or is it dead like American Steal or coal?

 

[Stella14]

Our colleagues are not willing to put their $$$ where their mouths are. I left Walgreens in 2005 after 19.5 years (11 as a pharmacist) bc people crossed the picket line when we went on strike . A bunch of old timers jumped ship at that time bc we knew we were screwed at that point. They wound up breaking the union ( national pharmacists association ) bc young pharmacists didn’t want to pay dues and thought they would NEVER need a union. People were warned 4 years ahead of time to save money to get through 3 months of not working and they blew it and crossed the line. That was the last time we had leverage in retail and every other retail pharmacy contracts were bc we fought hard and then everyone else just fell in line like Isco, cvs, walmart, etc. If Walgreens got paid xx amount with certain benefits then other company’s followed suit without having to put their butts on the line. Pharmacists are still not willing to lose their paychecks or jobs to get anything changed. Therefore we will be working for $30/hr with crappy conditions, and bending over and taking it from management . I hate to say it but we collectively deserve it!

 

[projektreverb]

^The second they crossed the picket lines, it was over for us.

 

[BMBiology]

The market is cyclical and will correct itself within the next 3-5 years!!

Probably not within 10 years.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I would prepare for the market to be saturated for the rest of your career. The market can remain irrational for longer than you can stay solvent.

 

[King2440]

Best solution is to contact your BOP and speak of patient safety issues.

Many pharmacists depend on there current jobs due to 150k + loans. If I had no loans, a great savings, house paid off for etc. then I could probably be more aggressive.

However, we are all pretty much all indentured laborers. Lol

 

[projektreverb]

Best solution is to contact your BOP and speak of patient safety issues.

Many pharmacists depend on there current jobs due to 150k + loans. If I had no loans, a great savings, house paid off for etc. then I could probably be more aggressive.

However, we are all pretty much all indentured laborers. Lol

And employers know all this. They know we’ll take the shovel of garbage flung at us as a result.

 

[Secret_Informant]

The pharmacy schools that are already accredited may treat these posts as "fear-mongering" or implement some kind of behavioral intervention strategy for pharmacy students who view these posts. How do we prevent us from being viewed in this light?

The State Board of Pharmacy might view you not passing the MPJE or the NAPLEX against you. That is why I may not be allowed to discuss how oversaturation affects the quality of pharmacists and the profession itself.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I'd like to see them fire me. You now how easy it is to lose $20k worth of my salary? That would happen instantly. First the techs would come with me then all hell would break loose and slowly customers would leave out of frustration over horrible service.

Wagrxm2000 pharmacy sounds pretty good though.

 

[King2440]

I'd like to see them fire me. You now how easy it is to lose $20k worth of my salary? That would happen instantly. First the techs would come with me then all hell would break loose and slowly customers would leave out of frustration over horrible service.

Wagrxm2000 pharmacy sounds pretty good though.

Rule #1: no one isuntouchable/irreplaceable. They will find new people to replace your techs, or the techs may actually stay because they live paycheck to paycheck. Customers will still come because their insurance makes them use your pharmacy, or so they think. I understand 100% what you mean, but we are all replaceable. We have to realize that.

 

[BMBiology]

I'd like to see them fire me. You now how easy it is to lose $20k worth of my salary? That would happen instantly. First the techs would come with me then all hell would break loose and slowly customers would leave out of frustration over horrible service.

Wagrxm2000 pharmacy sounds pretty good though.

You are thinking these people are rational. They are not.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

I have a few no pharmacy co-workers at my health system who have children in pharmacy school. They are oblivious to reality even though I advised against the profession to them and their children when they shadowed me.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I'd like to see them fire me. You now how easy it is to lose $20k worth of my salary? That would happen instantly. First the techs would come with me then all hell would break loose and slowly customers would leave out of frustration over horrible service.

Wagrxm2000 pharmacy sounds pretty good though.

On paper, it’s much easier to prove that they can save $20k/year by replacing you with a new grad than they can prove your intangible worth to your pharmacy.

Most of the big chains have shown that they do not care about customer service. To the chains, lower payroll expenses > customer service.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Oh they will definitely fire me at some point.

Problem is after the store falls apart, they will be begging me to come back for an even higher salary.

There are so many pharmacies around me, I'd walk up to one show them my credentials, tell them give me an underperforming store, grab all my techs and be a savior.

 

[JustFillIt]

Oh they will definitely fire me at some point.

Problem is after the store falls apart, they will be begging me to come back for an even higher salary.

There are so many pharmacies around me, I'd walk up to one show them my credentials, tell them give me an underperforming store, grab all my techs and be a savior.

Now here is a man I understand (or woman, I am not sexist or assuming gender. I could just as well guessed woman. Actually you could be any gender in the gender spectrum I dunno. I’m sorry for anyone I may have triggered. Hopefully that covers my tracks to present myself as a socially acceptable man in this modern age).

Anyways - I appreciate your point of view and I agree 100%. I have presented myself the same as you and I have done wonderful in this job market.

The only thing I would say from experience is - techs don’t just follow anywhere. They are subject to capitalism just the same as anyone. If pay and benefits do not match or beat then they just might jump ship.

 

[Timbo]

It is true. I hope people don't take op 'post lightly. I had a conversation with the scheduler after my former partner got fired. He told me it has been happening and it will keep happening.

Why did your partner get fired?

 

[mentos]

Oh they will definitely fire me at some point.

Problem is after the store falls apart, they will be begging me to come back for an even higher salary.

There are so many pharmacies around me, I'd walk up to one show them my credentials, tell them give me an underperforming store, grab all my techs and be a savior.

They will not offer a higher salary no matter what. They'd rather let the store go under before admitting they're wrong, just like their CEOs.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Now here is a man I understand (or woman, I am not sexist or assuming gender. I could just as well guessed woman. Actually you could be any gender in the gender spectrum I dunno. I’m sorry for anyone I may have triggered. Hopefully that covers my tracks to present myself as a socially acceptable man in this modern age).

Anyways - I appreciate your point of view and I agree 100%. I have presented myself the same as you and I have done wonderful in this job market.

The only thing I would say from experience is - techs don’t just follow anywhere. They are subject to capitalism just the same as anyone. If pay and benefits do not match or beat then they just might jump ship.

Thank you?

You've clearly never read my posts but that's my fault since I don't post much anymore with every thread being the same complaining.

About me: male, greatest pharmacist Walgreens has ever seen, my techs love and would follow me, have been an rxm for Walgreens for 18 almost 19 years, I love this company for allowing me to give my family an amazing life.

 

[projektreverb]

Thank you?

You've clearly never read my posts but that's my fault since I don't post much anymore with every thread being the same complaining.

About me: male, greatest pharmacist Walgreens has ever seen, my techs love and would follow me, have been an rxm for Walgreens for 18 almost 19 years, I love this company for allowing me to give my family an amazing life.

Thank you?

About me: male, greatest pharmacist Walgreens has ever seen.

Just wait until I start. I’ll give you a run for your money.

 

[JustFillIt]

Thank you?

You've clearly never read my posts but that's my fault since I don't post much anymore with every thread being the same complaining.

About me: male, greatest pharmacist Walgreens has ever seen, my techs love and would follow me, have been an rxm for Walgreens for 18 almost 19 years, I love this company for allowing me to give my family an amazing life.

Yea dude we are a lot alike.

Let me share my specs too: male, straight married, freaking awesome retail PIC with loads of great/successful history. I got the Midas touch....

You and I need to have a bromance or something... you need a wingman? I’m free Friday and Saturday night... let’s go destroy some karaoke?

 

[JustFillIt]

Just wait until I start. I’ll give you a run for your money.

Haha I love this guy

 

[wagrxm2000]

You and I need to have a bromance or something... you need a wingman? I’m free Friday and Saturday night... let’s go destroy some karaoke?

I love this company for allowing me to give my family an amazing life.

My wife wouldn't approve of needing a wingman

Is there a reason why you put straight married?

 

[Modest_anteater]

“Insert a new buzzword here” will save us!

You know what is causing all this pain? desire and greed. that is what. If you don't have greed to earn more than the free market dictates you deserve then you won't have pain. Your kid is sick? drive to Mexico and get affordable treatment for them. You are going to lose your house? buy a used minivan to live in or move someplace cheaper.

So many greedy people on here. "pharmacists deserve to earn X, we should get Y benefits" no.

no.

You will get what the free market dictates.

Which may be as low as 25 USD an hour and you will still say thank you for the opportunity to get paid to do something you enjoy. In the next five years you will see an acceleration in the deterioration of pharmacist demand as the true products of all the new schools opening begins to take effect.

Just try to relax and enjoy the show.

 

[JustFillIt]

My wife wouldn't approve of needing a wingman

Is there a reason why you put straight married?

Well shoot I guess I gave you too much credit... a wingman is a bro thing.. It should be non-threatening to wives.

It’s like - Mario and Luigi, Buzz and Woody, Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble... Raul Duke and Dr. Gonzo.....

My offer still stands though. You can be my wingman on a night of karaoke.

 

[owlegrad]

FWIW this is my understanding of 'wingman' (and I suspect most wives wouldn't appreciate it): Urban Dictionary: Wingman

 

[JustFillIt]

FWIW this is my understanding of 'wingman' (and I suspect most wives wouldn't appreciate it): Urban Dictionary: Wingman

Lol - I love urban dictionary.

Well whatever...

 

[Lexington2012]

Or metrics you out. But seriously, I’ve been on this forum for 10ish months. I’m not sure if this forum is just a sounding board for people, but I have yet to see any action from anyone here. From the outside, we just look like a bunch of whiners.... Real talk, anyone have a feasible, actionable course we can take? And spamming the prepharm forum or pulling a chicken little aren’t options. What are some actions we could feasibly do to save this profession? Or is it dead like American Steal or coal?

Learn to code

 

[tylenolnumber3]

I’ve saved enough in the past few years and don’t mind doing it for another few years. Just bring on the recession that forces all them baby boomers to **** their pants because they can’t average down anymore BECAUSE they ain’t working no more. I’ll pick up the assets and enjoy the free QE and helicopter money that will rain from the sky.

 

[wagrxm2000]

You know what is causing all this pain? desire and greed. that is what. If you don't have greed to earn more than the free market dictates you deserve then you won't have pain. Your kid is sick? drive to Mexico and get affordable treatment for them. You are going to lose your house? buy a used minivan to live in or move someplace cheaper.

So many greedy people on here. "pharmacists deserve to earn X, we should get Y benefits" no.

no.

You will get what the free market dictates.

Which may be as low as 25 USD an hour and you will still say thank you for the opportunity to get paid to do something you enjoy. In the next five years you will see an acceleration in the deterioration of pharmacist demand as the true products of all the new schools opening begins to take effect.

Just try to relax and enjoy the show.

Loans have to be a part of the question of what we're "worth". I personally don't think people should take out loans higher then 1x their salary.

We have already fallen way behind and are rapidly approaching 2x with many/most(?) already there.

You want us to make $30/hr? No one, not even people like me that love this profession should go into it.

 

[SCRph2014]

these non-traditional jobs are historically unstable and undergo large layoffs periodically. many rph positions can actually be run by techs in these fields, but im sure they won't hesitate to bring in some very low paid rphs if they have need. I used to work in specialty and much of the work can be run by techs.

I was told by my operations manager than MIRIXA is shutting down soon? Didn't get a big contract this year so they are donezo. So much for MTM being the future of pharmacy

 

[projektreverb]

I was told by my operations manager than MIRIXA is shutting down soon? Didn't get a big contract this year so they are donezo. So much for MTM being the future of pharmacy

It got bought out by outcomesmtm/cardinal health.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Loans have to be a part of the question of what we're "worth". I personally don't think people should take out loans higher then 1x their salary.

We have already fallen way behind and are rapidly approaching 2x with many/most(?) already there.

You want us to make $30/hr? No one, not even people like me that love this profession should go into it.

If you are not okay with earning 30 USD / hour as a pharmacist in the US I advise leaving the profession immediately. I have really bad news for you in the next five years.

 

[Secret_Informant]

Or metrics you out. But seriously, I’ve been on this forum for 10ish months. I’m not sure if this forum is just a sounding board for people, but I have yet to see any action from anyone here. From the outside, we just look like a bunch of whiners.... Real talk, anyone have a feasible, actionable course we can take? And spamming the prepharm forum or pulling a chicken little aren’t options. What are some actions we could feasibly do to save this profession? Or is it dead like American Steal or coal?

I have been asking about actionable strategies for a few months, but I see few people on this forum posting ideas. This is probably because members are afraid someone else is going to take the credit for the idea. I can understand that.

That is why I have reservations about posting ideas. This is an online forum; in the real world, we have no method to track who had the idea first.

 

[Secret_Informant]

What are your thoughts on Nuclear Pharmacy? Is that still a viable field?

 

[wagrxm2000]

If you are not okay with earning 30 USD / hour as a pharmacist in the US I advise leaving the profession immediately. I have really bad news for you in the next five years.

Did you really just ignore my whole post?

 

[JustFillIt]

I have been asking about actionable strategies for a few months, but I see few people on this forum posting ideas. This is probably because members are afraid someone else is going to take the credit for the idea. I can understand that.

That is why I have reservations about posting ideas. This is an online forum; in the real world, we have no method to track who had the idea first.

I don’t know... I have come to the conclusion that capitalism is the reason for the issues we are facing.. and you can’t fight city hall.

 

[M0df]

I am not going to dispute your accolades but based on what you said Wagrxm2000... your pharmacy is a well oiled machine where at this time, you are just a pretty face of the pharmacy. To me, it means you can put an average manager or just promote your staff rph and it will function just fine. I'm sure there are enough pharmacists in your district in the same tax bracket that can be let go for less than stellar performance though.

I don't have any great ideas on how to turn around this profession. The smart ones already cashed out and walked away. Great ideas make millionaires for the few and it is typically too late to join that trend.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Did you really just ignore my whole post?

people are taking out loans 3x - 4x their salaries. These loans will never be repaid. The math doesn't work out. X amount of loans from all pharmDs Y amount of total salary available to pay pharmDs. X >> Y

 

[JustFillIt]

people are taking out loans 3x - 4x their salaries. These loans will never be repaid. The math doesn't work out. X amount of loans from all pharmDs Y amount of total salary available to pay pharmDs. X >> Y

Ok... but it’s not the end of the world. There is IBR which will forgive the loan at 20 and 30 years.. after that much time the principle is paid and more so if you are so inclined you can feel like you paid it back.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I am not going to dispute your accolades but based on what you said Wagrxm2000... your pharmacy is a well oiled machine where at this time, you are just a pretty face of the pharmacy. To me, it means you can put an average manager or just promote your staff rph and it will function just fine. I'm sure there are enough pharmacists in your district in the same tax bracket that can be let go for less than stellar performance though.

I don't have any great ideas on how to turn around this profession. The smart ones already cashed out and walked away. Great ideas make millionaires for the few and it is typically too late to join that trend.

That is 100% true but you take one piece out and it all can fall apart quickly. I've seen many stores go from perfectly ran to a mess in months. I've also seen the opposite.