Prerequisite courses oh my! Appreciated help =)

[Wee1]

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Hello Everyone, thank-you for any advice in advance!

I'm a University of Toronto student interested in US medical schools, preferably in the south! (Cali, Florida). I've done a little research, I am confused in terms of prereq courses and a lot of people are telling me conflicting things.

I've finished my undergrad degree in just over 3 years. I have 3 more half courses to go to graduate, so I want to fill those with as many prereqs as possible so I don't waste time. Furthermore I can take 2 half courses as PASS/FAIL so this would be useful for the 2nd half of physics and orgo. (would it be? hahah)

Questions:

1. 1 year of required english, I've done many psychology courses in which term papers are involved, does this count? Any way of knowing without asking each individual school?
2. Biochemistry? I realize I have to do 1 year gen chem (done) and 1 year orgo (not done) for almost every school, but relatively how many need Biochem?
3. Calculus, I didn't take any calculus, but I have 1 year of stats. Am I OK or is my school selection limited?
4. AP Biology, I noticed one Cali school said AP courses don't count, but I'm not even ALLOWED to take Bio at U of T because it's an exclusion for my AP credit... does that mean I'm screwed?
5. What if I take the courses at a university other than my home university, do they have to be accepted transfer credits from my home uni?

Right now I realize I mostly need my 1 year of orgo and my 2nd half year of physics.

Thanks for ANY help, feel free to ask me for more info please =)

Cheers!

Michael

EDIT: Oh and I forgot to ask.. does it matter WHEN I do the required courses, say I do just a semester or English and calculus in the summer... does it a) count towards GPA and b) even count towards fulfillment of prereqs?

 

[christina30]

Hello Everyone, thank-you for any advice in advance!

I'm a University of Toronto student interested in US medical schools, preferably in the south! (Cali, Florida). I've done a little research, I am confused in terms of prereq courses and a lot of people are telling me conflicting things.

I've finished my undergrad degree in just over 3 years. I have 3 more half courses to go to graduate, so I want to fill those with as many prereqs as possible so I don't waste time. Furthermore I can take 2 half courses as PASS/FAIL so this would be useful for the 2nd half of physics and orgo. (would it be? hahah)

Questions:

1. 1 year of required english, I've done many psychology courses in which term papers are involved, does this count? Any way of knowing without asking each individual school?
2. Biochemistry? I realize I have to do 1 year gen chem (done) and 1 year orgo (not done) for almost every school, but relatively how many need Biochem?
3. Calculus, I didn't take any calculus, but I have 1 year of stats. Am I OK or is my school selection limited?
4. AP Biology, I noticed one Cali school said AP courses don't count, but I'm not even ALLOWED to take Bio at U of T because it's an exclusion for my AP credit... does that mean I'm screwed?
5. What if I take the courses at a university other than my home university, do they have to be accepted transfer credits from my home uni?

Right now I realize I mostly need my 1 year of orgo and my 2nd half year of physics.

Thanks for ANY help, feel free to ask me for more info please =)

Cheers!

Michael

1. No, that doesn't count. You need english courses. Psychology courses only count as social sciences.

2. Biochemistry isn't required by most schools, but its recommended. Some DO schools require it, however.

3. A lot of MD schools require Calc I.

 

[MiniMoo]

Furthermore I can take 2 half courses as PASS/FAIL so this would be useful for the 2nd half of physics and orgo. (would it be? hahah)

Questions:

1. 1 year of required english, I've done many psychology courses in which term papers are involved, does this count? Any way of knowing without asking each individual school?
2. Biochemistry? I realize I have to do 1 year gen chem (done) and 1 year orgo (not done) for almost every school, but relatively how many need Biochem?
3. Calculus, I didn't take any calculus, but I have 1 year of stats. Am I OK or is my school selection limited?
4. AP Biology, I noticed one Cali school said AP courses don't count, but I'm not even ALLOWED to take Bio at U of T because it's an exclusion for my AP credit... does that mean I'm screwed?
5. What if I take the courses at a university other than my home university, do they have to be accepted transfer credits from my home uni?

1. There is some lee-way on what can fulfill the English requirement, but I'm pretty positive a psych class with term papers won't cut it. English Comp, Literature classes will count as will some professional writing courses (check with the schools you plan to apply to).

3. Many schools require Calc.

5. No they don't have to be accepted transfer credits. Taking the required courses at another school should be fine.

And I'm not sure what you mean by taking "half courses" -- just know that all pre-reqs must be taken for a letter grade. Taking them pass/fail won't count.

 

[Wee1]

thanks for the help so far guys.

MiniMoo, you mentioned that Pass/fail won't cut it for the prereq courses. That's really important for me to know, thanks for the heads up.

Can anyone else confirm that?

Anyways, I guess now I'll be calling some schools and asking them that question directly. It would really clear up my course selection route to know that they don't accept pass/fail for the prereqs.

EDIT: To add on, the way our school works, half courses are half year courses. So that's like Orgo part I and Orgo part II being two half courses to make up a full year of orgo. I hope that clarifies!

 

[organdonor]

Furthermore I can take 2 half courses as PASS/FAIL so this would be useful for the 2nd half of physics and orgo. (would it be? hahah)

I had no idea you couldn't take pre req's as pass fail? I wouldn't recommend it anyways, because they would be a chance to shine with an A or still be fine if you get B's. B>Pass.

1. 1 year of required english, I've done many psychology courses in which term papers are involved, does this count? Any way of knowing without asking each individual school?

No. Some schools will require a year of English, but take exceptions if classes had "extensive writing." There is no way to objectify "extensive" and it must be asked from each school. If they tell you a certain class covers their requirements, get it in writing! An email will suffice, just something.

2. Biochemistry? I realize I have to do 1 year gen chem (done) and 1 year orgo (not done) for almost every school, but relatively how many need Biochem?

I don't think many schools require Biochem. A quick glance at the MSAR should tell you which schools do.

3. Calculus, I didn't take any calculus, but I have 1 year of stats. Am I OK or is my school selection limited?

I believe most schools require calc. Some require a year of math. Again, check MSAR.

4. AP Biology, I noticed one Cali school said AP courses don't count, but I'm not even ALLOWED to take Bio at U of T because it's an exclusion for my AP credit... does that mean I'm screwed?

Ah yes good old AP. All of the pain of the upper level classes without the GPA cushion of the easy ones. Many (most?) med schools will not accept it. Talk to someone who can override you into the class. If true, this rule at U of T seems ridiculous. Just take it somewhere else if you have to.

5. What if I take the courses at a university other than my home university, do they have to be accepted transfer credits from my home uni?

Go for it. It doesn't matter what your undergrad accepts or doesn't. The only negative is that you have another transcript to request, which isn't a big deal. Keep this is mind for GPA too. Classes which transferred into my uni were accepted, but didn't go into my GPA. This meant that the GPA my uni gave me was quite a bit lower than my AMCAS calculated GPA, which calculates all letter grades ever given in any college class ever.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot to ask.. does it matter WHEN I do the required courses, say I do just a semester or English and calculus in the summer... does it a) count towards GPA and b) even count towards fulfillment of prereqs?

Schools just care that you have the pre reqs done before enrolling. I've got a friend taking one the summer after he graduates/before med school. If you want them to count into your GPA then they must be completed by the time you send your transcripts in to get verified in May/June/Somewhere around there.

 

[Wee1]

. If you want them to count into your GPA then they must be completed by the time you send your transcripts in to get verified in May/June/Somewhere around there.

Aahahah, well I like my GPA the way it is =P I'm worried about it being LOWERED by something like Calc or Orgo part II.

Oh dear about the AP and Bio deal... that would mean I would have to take and PAY for a whole year of 1st year Bio.... =S... oh wait! But I have well over 1 year of 2nd year bio... maybe that is good?

 

[MiniMoo]

MiniMoo, you mentioned that Pass/fail won't cut it for the prereq courses. That's really important for me to know, thanks for the heads up.

Can anyone else confirm that?

The John Hopkins Pre-Professional Advising site gives a pretty nice rundown on what's required to apply to med schools in the US: http://web.jhu.edu/prepro/health/course_requirements.html

The bolded section underneath the Overview of Premedical Requirements heading states: Notes: (1) Required premedical requirements adjust if students are awarded AP credits (see section below), and (2) All premedical requirements must be taken for a letter grade and that letter grades must be a "C" or better (see section on "Repeating Courses" below).

 

[organdonor]

that would mean I would have to take and PAY for a whole year of 1st year Bio.... =S... oh wait! But I have well over 1 year of 2nd year bio... maybe that is good?

Check the MSAR. I'm seeing a pattern here lol.

 

[mdbound1987]

Aahahah, well I like my GPA the way it is =P I'm worried about it being LOWERED by something like Calc or Orgo part II.

Oh dear about the AP and Bio deal... that would mean I would have to take and PAY for a whole year of 1st year Bio.... =S... oh wait! But I have well over 1 year of 2nd year bio... maybe that is good?

So I decided to flip through the MSAR (last year's version but it is safe to say that the following hasn't changed for schools) for you because I had a feeling the advice everyone is giving you on calculus is false...and it is. Only 17 schools require calculus. Some for example are Harvard, Wash U, Johns Hopkins, and a couple other top ten schools... The rest are state schools which you probably won't end up applying to like California and Texas state schools in particular. So, unless you feel the need to apply to these few top ten schools and state schools, do not take calculus unless you will surely get an A in it. By your most recent post, it seems that you feel you won't do well in the class, so don't take it. You should take one year of math in order to meet most school's requirements, so take pre-calc, college algebra, or statistics. Getting into med school requires a strong gpa, so does it make more sense to take calculus in order to impress some schools and get a bad grade or take two easier math classes and get A's? I'm sure you can see that the smart decision is the latter. I was also under the impression during my freshman year in college that I needed calculus to get into med school and received an F in it. Although I recovered without even retaking the class by getting all A's in my pre-reqs and will be starting medical school in the fall, it was an unnecessary F. I highly doubt anyone who commented was trying to purposefully give you the wrong info (although you will find gunners on this site), but a lot of info on SDN is wrong because sometimes it is what they've HEARD and not what they KNOW, so you've gotta do some of the research yourself. I appreciate the person above who told what they knew, but also said refer to MSAR. That book is so important to have. So, do not take calculus unless you feel the need to apply to those schools and get your hands on that MSAR. Good luck.

 

[mdbound1987]

Also, very few schools require biochemistry, but if you take it, some schools will take that in place of orgo 2. Again, very few schools do this, so you would be better off taking orgo 2.