prestigious undergrad?

[Pennymare]

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Keep in mind that the vast majority of these students were undoubtedly in-state applicants.

Considering PA students can attend Penn and other Ivy League/'prestigious' schools and be considered 'in-state', your statement fails to make much of a point.

Some schools may be 'ranked higher' than other schools overall, but this may not reflect on every aspect related to pre-veterinary education. Sure, private, 'prestigious' schools may make their science majors memorize textbooks, but public schools can offer more hands-on animal courses and experiences. State governments run animal diagnostic labs, veterinary extension services, and workshops out of state schools. Also, many state schools maintain livestock as part of their teaching and research resources.

I really don't understand why this thread is important or why certain schools need to be proven better than others....

'Prestigious' schools have their reputation value, but other schools can excel above them in certain aspects. This thread is becoming a joke.

 

[texlaevis]

let's all not get our feathers ruffled... it's pretty clear that different schools use different formulae... maybe some presume to be able to rank schools by "prestige" (which is just as difficult to quantify-- for so many reasons-- as things like "quality of veterinary experience" and "is Johnny Q a good human being?"). i think this thread was kind of a joke to begin with. if you want to believe that you're life sucks because you went to a "prestigious" school, fine. if you want to believe that your life sucks because you didn't, fine. it all averages out in the end. do well wherever you go, get good experience, be confident in your decision, and frigging apply.

if your life sucks THAT MUCH, transfer.

 

[cyrille104]

please. i'm not looking to start a fight, i'm looking to help you down from your self-prescribed pedistool. your blatant statements may be accurate for you, but not necessarily an ultimate truth.

why should the reason of the competition of the program matter? it's obviously should not be the case that your school has an outrageously competitive biology program yet the kid that got into an ivy league based on legacy gets a 'bonus'? maybe i misread... she asked if the fewer competitor school studnet gets a deduction, and you answered, not unless the competition is due to ivy league status. so those taht *don't* go to ivy league should get deducted?

and just an aside... i purposely steered clear of our Bioethics course. being a jesuit institution, ethics is taken very seriously, and taught by the biggest hard-ass the university has to offer. hell no, i'm not messing around with that. much more difficult that the org chem class, from what i've heard. diagnosing certain classes amongst colleges as "easier" and thus weighting them less would be impossible. (i guess ultimately on that one i'm agreeing with you.)

apologies if i got rubbed the wrong way for nothing.

I think you misread with the ivy league thing. What I meant was that ultimately, the only way to judge the difficulty of the program is by the competitiveness of the school. And that's the way some schools do it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's the way it is. Everyone keeps forgetting that I talked to each school about this issue specifically. The bioethics thing was just an example, because at my school it's easy. I was going to use "History of Modern Science" but I couldn't remember if we have that course, haha.

I'm not trying to be on a pedestal, but I can't help but feel like a lot of people here are trying to shoot down good schools just because they don't/didn't go to them. Everyone started taking offense and getting all upset, but the point of this thread was NOT to determine which schools are better, but to determine whether better schools help you get in. I went to this school because it was the best choice for me, and because its reputation among many employers and grad schools makes a difference. And, the fact is that it helped me get into the school of my choice, which they specifically told me. So no one's going to be able to convince me that it doesn't make a difference, sorry. It's certainly not the end-all be-all of vet school admissions, but the question was "did it help?" and my answer was "yes". If you're going to be all smart and try to confuse the issue with a bunch of other questions, expect smartass answers in return.

And with the Penn state thing, my point is that of course they're going to take 10-12, because a disproportionate number of in-state applicants went to Penn state. It's the flagship state school. Just like I bet a bunch of students in each class at Illinois are from UIUC. It's a good school - I was not attacking Penn state, as much as you were dying to defend it. Can we got argue about this anymore? The question has been answered from several perspectives.

 

[kixx]

i have to chuckle a little, b/c at age 16 i WAS told this, but thinking i was so wise, refused to listen... 16 years later i agree that undergrad prestige doesn't really matter as much as grad school, but how to make my younger self see? it seems whatever our goal (high school, undergrad, grad) we are just looking at the next step - trying to get over one hurdle at a time....

Haha, tell me about it. I was offered about 15 full-ride athletic scholarships out of high school, but turned them all down to pay $60,000 a year at a school I though was better academically (I felt I worked my ass off so hard in high school I wasn't going to settle). Of course, on every recruiting trip, I was told by the pre-health deans that I'd be better off getting a 4.0 in an "easier" (their words, not mine) academic environment in terms of getting into med/vet school than a 3.6 in a more "competitive" academic environment. Not that I would have necessarily gotten a 4.0 at those schools, nor would I have traded in my years at my "prestigious" school for anything, but I too, definately refused to listen. On the otherhand, coaches at Harvard told me they'd flag my application (meaning they'd get me in based upon being academically sufficient enough for an athlete) and I refused because I didn't want to be struggling as the "stupid" kid in the school that got in just for sports. I guess I found the happy middleground...maybe I didn't get into all the vet schools I wanted, but I still got in somewhere! ...still I wonder, if I could tell the 16 year old version of myself that maybe those pre-health deans were right...

 

[KittenKiller]

psst, Emio. You misspelled "pedestal". You must have gone to one of those wretched STATE SCHOOLS or something!

Everyone should settle down. I think the vet schools do the best they can to try to get the people that fit them. I dont think gaming the system by going to a school you think they like better is a good idea at all. Just go to a school you like, do the best you can, and at least some of the vet schools will recognize you for what youre worth. So nyah!

 

[cyrille104]

psst, Emio. You misspelled "pedestal". You must have gone to one of those wretched STATE SCHOOLS or something!

Everyone should settle down. I think the vet schools do the best they can to try to get the people that fit them. I dont think gaming the system by going to a school you think they like better is a good idea at all. Just go to a school you like, do the best you can, and at least some of the vet schools will recognize you for what youre worth. So nyah!

Yeah, considering that some of us are going to be classmates, let's not fight and be friends again 😀

 

[Emio]

psst, Emio. You misspelled "pedestal". You must have gone to one of those wretched STATE SCHOOLS or something!

Everyone should settle down. I think the vet schools do the best they can to try to get the people that fit them. I dont think gaming the system by going to a school you think they like better is a good idea at all. Just go to a school you like, do the best you can, and at least some of the vet schools will recognize you for what youre worth. So nyah!

lol, i know right? kinda flushed my argument right down the toilet when i go and misspell something like that. no one's ever gonna take me seriously!

and trust me, i wasn't getting heated, i just have trouble understanding where you're coming from sometimes... most likely just cause we're online and such. dude, we're all gonna LOVE each other when we're all studying together.. it'll be good times once we're in there and past all this bull**** of applications.

 

[texlaevis]

ha ha. i thought emio spelled "pedestal" as "pedestool" on purpose to be witty... like "pedestool sample".

 

[Emio]

keep thinking that texlaevis!

please?

 

[kate_g]

I'm arguing that a 3.5 at a prestigious school is worth more than a 3.5 at a less prestigious school.

I'm not trying to be on a pedestal, but I can't help but feel like a lot of people here are trying to shoot down good schools just because they don't/didn't go to them.

🙄
Cyrille, I truly am not trying to pick on you in particular, it's just that you're doing a good job of encapsulating this mindset that makes me shudder ("prestigious"=="harder" and "prestigious"=="good", implying "not prestigious"=="not good").

Because most undergraduate institutions are (by necessity!) not "prestigious," most of your *classmates* will not have gone to prestigious undergrad institutions. You will not get very many invitations to be lab partners if you go around saying things like "I would have gotten a GPA as high as you, and probably even higher, if I'd gone to a school as easy as yours."

 

[kate_g]

By the way, I know this is kind of a late response, but...

The only thing that should matter would be if students from more competitive undergraduate programs performed better in veterinary school. And as far as I know, there's no such proof.

Right on, Bill! You always manage to cut to the ultimate pragmatic chase of these arguments.

 

[cyrille104]

🙄
Cyrille, I truly am not trying to pick on you in particular, it's just that you're doing a good job of encapsulating this mindset that makes me shudder ("prestigious"=="harder" and "prestigious"=="good", implying "not prestigious"=="not good").

Because most undergraduate institutions are (by necessity!) not "prestigious," most of your *classmates* will not have gone to prestigious undergrad institutions. You will not get very many invitations to be lab partners if you go around saying things like "I would have gotten a GPA as high as you, and probably even higher, if I'd gone to a school as easy as yours."

I think you're making a few jumps here. First, I am arguing that prestigious schools are difficult and good. However, I am definitely not saying that schools that are not prestigious are not difficult or good. There are certainly schools that are less well-known that are great schools. Second, I would never say anything like that...I don't know if that's true, and, and that would be a really offensive comment.

What I'm saying is that it helped me, and probably other people as well. My claim that a 3.5 at a prestigious school is worth more than a 3.5 at a lesser known school was based purely on my observations here. As posted above, someone who worked her butt off for close to a 4.0 at ASU was not given the same recognition. I'm not trying to be offensive here, I think people are inferring things that I don't mean.

 

[QTkitty]

Hi all! I'm not too sure about all of this "prestige" vs. state school stuff. I agree that it may be an east coast vs. west coast thing because the majority of our schools out here are fantastic state schools (UCLA, UCSD, etc.). Anyway (and I don't know how true this is) I was told that going to a liberal arts school would hurt my application later for a science-based grad program. The only school I applied to out of high school is a relatively easy-to-get-into polytechnic state school. It seems to me that a large portion (I'm not sure what exactly) of our pre-vet students get into vet schools all over the nation. Again, I'm not sure how this really measures up against gaining a bio-related degree from a liberal arts college, or a prestigious one, but this is just what I was told.

Honestly, in my own opinion, I don't really think it matters. If you are able to show that you are dedicated and capable through grades, test scores, and extensive & varied experiences you shouldn't have too difficult a time getting in. I've noticed a trend with people on here that haven't gotten accepted in that they all realize the weaknesses in their applications (forgive me if I'm wrong). That isn't to say that my application lacked any weaknesses, but I haven't seen anyone on here saying "damn, I didn't get in and I have no idea why". There are always lower than average GPAs, or very few hours of experience, etc. Just to reiterate what has already been stated, go to a school that makes you happy and work your tail off to achieve your goal (get the grades and get involved in animal-related activities). GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[laurafinn]

If you are able to show that you are dedicated and capable through grades, test scores, and extensive & varied experiences you shouldn't have too difficult a time getting in.

Yep, bloom where you're planted and you should be fine. There are advantages and disadvantages to all types of schools, and ultimately, we'll never know what goes through admissions committee minds.

 

[KittenKiller]

and trust me, i wasn't getting heated, i just have trouble understanding where you're coming from sometimes...

heh, just to be clear, i never once in this thread said prestigious schools are better in any sense. My own "prestigious" school is a choice I kind of regret these days.

Hi all! I'm not too sure about all of this "prestige" vs. state school stuff

I don't think prestigious is the opposite of state school. There are lots of prestigious state schools. I think prestige refers to some vague category meaning "well known" and "having a good reputation." Moreover, there are plenty of "prestigious" schools that may have that reputation unfairly, or no longer deserve that reputation but keep it for historical reasons, and there are plenty of non-prestigious schools that may not have earned that reputation, for one reason of another (maybe theyre too new, too small, etc).

So "prestigious" is a weird category to use when deciding which school to go to, unless you truly want to brandish a name around. Itd be more appropriate to argue things such as whether public vs private matters, whether the amount of research an insitution is pumping out is relevant to its educational caliber, facilities, size, level of the classes offered, ability to make connections in your field, satisfaction of current undergraduates, etc.

 

[kate_g]

Second, I would never say anything like that...I don't know if that's true, and, and that would be a really offensive comment.

Like I said, I was just using your words because they encapsulated a particular mindset. I'm not suggesting you necessarily have the full-blown stereotyped version of that mindset, you just expressed it well. 🙂

My entire point was that with broad generalizations like "prestigious schools are more academically rigorous" or "a 3.5 from a prestigious school is worth more than a 3.5 from any other school", any listener who has *not* gone to a prestigious school is likely to hear "your school is inherently not as good as mine." Whether or not that was what you meant, or what you think. And, most importantly, whether or not it's true! An insult that happens to be true feels even *worse* than an insult that's patently false.

Know your audience, is all I'm saying (in general, to everyone on the thread who has expressed variations on the above claims), or prepare to become unpopular pretty quickly once you leave that prestigious institution!

 

[wildfocus]

my husband's contribution to this debate:

"at least we [meaning state schools] have good football"

gotta love him, but obviously we look at things a bit differently! (no offense to anyone, i just thought it was funny 😉)

 

[Cheska]

my husband's contribution to this debate:

"at least we [meaning state schools] have good football"

gotta love him, but obviously we look at things a bit differently! (no offense to anyone, i just thought it was funny 😉)

LMAO!!! That was my bf's exact reply too when he saw me reading this thread.
He absolutely bleeds scarlet and gray... and gets super annoyed when people ask him if he went to "THE Ohio State" for undergrad/vet school (he just finished a week of job interviews and every single doc asked him that question!)

 

[ri23]

basketball too. Sorry, Jen, I just had to say that 😉 .

 

[Cheska]

basketball too. Sorry, Jen, I just had to say that 😉 .

Yes! We will have a very happy home at least until Monday night

 

[JIKJen124]

Tears for the Hoyas

If they had to lose though, it wasn't a bad team to lose to!!

 

[polo vet]

You missed the point. I'm arguing that a 3.5 at a prestigious school is worth more than a 3.5 at a less prestigious school.

i know i am late to this thread. But I totally agree. I know med schools are different, but my friend interviewed at a kentucky med school last year and the interviewer flat out told him that they would take a 3.4 from Washington and Lee (small top ranked liberal arts school) over a 4.00 at a state school (all other things being equal). Our school has a very good pre-med reputation (around 80% acceptance rate), but only one or two students apply to vet schools each year (bc we are such a small school) so i don't know if that reputaion extends to vet schools as well. I also took org I & II at my state school and experienced the night and day revelation. But I think all the work I am putting in now will help later. at least i hope

 

[AuburnPreVet]

the interviewer flat out told him that they would take a 3.4 from Washington and Lee (small top ranked liberal arts school) over a 4.00 at a state school

With an inreasing number of applicants every year -- and the vast majority of schools assigning a number of "points" to each category... I'd still rather have a 4.0 from a state school than a 3.4 from a top tier school. I don't doubt they'll toss in a few brownie points for the difficulty/reputation of ones undergrad school, or for a particularly difficult major .... but, for the most part I don't think it would make up for the 0.6 gpa point difference mentioned above....maybe an ivy 3.4 is equivalent to a state 3.6 or something like that... but not much more IMHO.

Edit -- I should add that I didn't read through the whole thread...

 

[GallopRealyFast]

Wow I'm surprised to hear this private vs. state debate. New York must be backwards, It seems to me that the state schools in New York, CUNY and SUNY, are harder to get into and more prestigious than the private schools (aka pay to pass schools).

I think it really comes down to the actual professor giving you the grade. I have had some very difficult professors and some very easy professors all for the same types of classes. I think class size is a big factor in grades also...you get more help and your efforts are seen more in a 20 person class than a 500 person class.

 

[nyanko]

I think class size is a big factor in grades also...you get more help and your efforts are seen more in a 20 person class than a 500 person class.

Even that isn't necessarily true, at least in my experience. I'm just finishing up a BS in Molecular Biology and Microbiology at a very large state school and if you sit near the front and pay attention and do what you are supposed to do the professors will take notice and you will be able to ask them for help if you do need it. There are also more opportunities for meeting a good group of people (or two or three different groups!) to study with.

I prefer large classes by far, truthfully.

 

[hirdDVM]

I went to a state school (a state that has its own vet school that I did not apply to, mind you), got into three vet schools, and 12 out of 14 who applied to vet school in my undergrad class got in 😀

How's d'em apples.

I don't think it's your school that matters, I think its what you make of it. I did undergraduate research...that makes a huge impression, not where you went to school. I also worked at dairies, animal hospitals, and horse barns. I worked two jobs and took 18-20 credits a semester. And believe me, as I stated before, I do not have a fabulous GPA and GRE. I just made the most of it, and they see that. I can tell you, plenty of students who get 4.0's because all they do it academia, and they wonder why they don't get in. If you can get the grades and work your butt off, power to you. But just based on my own experiences with applying, I think vet schools are looking more into you, not where you came from.

Good luck.

V

 

[hirdDVM]

. I also took org I & II at my state school and experienced the night and day revelation. But I think all the work I am putting in now will help later. at least i hope

Maybe the professors at state schools are better 😛 Just food for thought.

-V

 

[wildfocus]

this thread again??? didn't we beat it before?

 

[cyrille104]

this thread again??? didn't we beat it before?

seriously.