Primetime Cheating Special

[theprizefighter]

Hi, All

Having nothing to do since graduating several days ago, I was watching some TV when a Primetime Special on Cheating came on tonight. I was shocked by the lengths some business students and such go thru to cheat such as using cell phones, two way pagers, etc.

What shocked me most, though, was the segment about a student at a Northeast College who cheats for people by writing papers, taking tests, and even writing medical school applications essays for people applying to Cornell Medical School.

Here's the shocker, though: This guy himself is a pre-med. Yikes! Charles Gibson asked the guy (who's face was hidden) "What would you think of a fellow doctor who did in college what you are doing now?" The pre-med cheater for hire said, "I would admire him for that."

Let me say first off that I have NEVER cheated in my life. Have I had opportunities to do it without getting caught? Sure. But I NEVER EVER took those. Maybe it was the Duck Tales cartoon from when I was a kid in which Donald Duck said, "Cheaters never win firefly fruit." Maybe it's the fact that I consider it an insult to one's intellect. Maybe I think it's copping out to a system that promotes the blind pursuit of grades over learning no matter what the moral detriment that comes along the way. For whatever the reason, I think cheating is terrible and I have never done it.

Anyone know cheaters? Anyone feel the same way as I do? Anyone want to play devil's advocate? By all means, sound off!

theprizefighter

"I wish he'd stop ringing that bell cos I can't concentrate." - Rocky Balboa, Lipton Brisk Ice Tea Commercial

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[Gleevec]

Hopefully some adcoms were watching that show then

 

[Fumoffu]

I copied hw all the time in high school!

*gets stoned*

 

[Amy B]

I also watched that and it sickened me to think about all the cheaters in that story and really pissed me off to hear about the pre-meds that are dishonest. Who the heck wants a dishonest doctor treating them.

 

[harvardpremed]

I can hear malpractice insurance sky rocketing as we speak!

 

[39094]

Don't forget though that cheating comes in many flavors. There's the outright cheating like sending answers through a cell phone or copying off your neighbor during a test, but there are also things which many people take for granted which others consider "cheating."

I'm sure many of us have looked at tests or homeworks from professors from years past. Many professors don't seem to mind, but some actually consider this a form of cheating. (Most of the time these are the professors that are too damn lazy to change the problems on their tests or homeworks year to year). I had a physics and a pchem professor who both considered this activity a form of cheating. And lets not forget working on homework in groups. I've had many professors that specifically say that homework is to be done alone and not in groups, but everyone does anyway. Is this cheating? Everyone turns in their own answers, but still the work is a group effort.

And what about having friends look at personal statements or hiring a professional to edit your statement? Is that cheating? Tons of people do it, and honestly if you're a bad writer is it so different than having another person write your statement if your reviewer makes significant changes?

I too dislike cheating, but this is an issue which is murkier than it appears. One man's cheat sheet is another man's study aid.

 

[pekq]

Good thing it's hard to cheat on MCAT.

As for past exams, people with access to a lot of those definetly get a clear advantage over others. Thus, find upperclassmen and start sucking up to them.

 

[exmike]

I got suspended in high school for helping a friend on a take home exam. Other than that, cant remember any sig. cheating experience. I understand how the competitive nature of premeds may drive them to cheat. But in med school, what is the point? You cant cheat when you're spotted for a question in the wards. You cant cheat on your Boards, and you cant cheat when your patient just had a cardiac arrest in front of you. I just dont get why anyone would?!

 

[Amy B]

I also watched that and it sickened me to think about all the cheaters in that story and really pissed me off to hear about the pre-meds that are dishonest. Who the heck wants a dishonest doctor treating them.

I love it.....I posted the above opinion and someone tried to give me bad karma and then in the comments section told me to "grow up". Now that is funny. Sorry, newbie (I know it is a newbie because the karma box was blue, so it didn't count against me) but I think it is you who need to grow up.

 

[Indebt4Life]

Cheaters walk among us...get into ivy universities, go to medical school, and work as professionals in their fields. That's just life. Look at all the politicians and rich kids that manage to get EVERYTHING!!! including prestigious scholarships just because of their Daddy. How about all the athletes that somehow seem to pass their classes without attending a single class and play in the big football games. Another example, fraternity brothers who help other members with their "test bank" or social power. Let's face it. It happens...unfortunately. Some universities really flame cheaters and some just look the othe way.

 

[terpgirl]

I went to Resident Life over an F that I recieved because I missed exams (in the ER with a kidney infection), and my response was that I wasn't happy the grade was there, because it didn't justly show how I actually did in the class.

Their response? They have seen students go back and retroactively register for a semester... and get good grades for classes they'd never taken. They've removed Fs and Ws so that students were at credit-level to be able to register for housing. Im sorry, thatt's transcript grooming and I was appauled that they even offered that solution.

UMCP's Smith Business SChool is at the top of them all. There was a big cheating scandel last year--professors had TAs admin exams, and the professors would post the exam answers during the exam (for students to come by and check later). Little did these professors know about friends or text messaging... people XF (failure due to academic dishonesty--goes on transcript that way) the class.

-Liz

 

[curlycity]

Did anyone else think this - that most kids' parents are the mediocre sort of person who, deep down, doesn't really care if their kids cheat, as long as they get into a good school? It seems to me that there are plenty of incompetents who get ahead in business and in the real world through fraud, and they have to be passing that on to their kids somehow. Most people think school is stupid, tests are arbitrary, and teachers are mean; most people are sort of lazy. I mean, look at how many people lie on their resumes.

Cheaters drive me insane. I'm glad the MCAT is hard to cheat on...I heard from my health professions advisor there were a lot of people at my school the year before I applied that received a rude surprise on their MCAT score despite high GPAs...I knew some of them, and they spent all their undergrad cramming and cheating and never learned how to learn anything, so they had 4.0s but 27 MCATs.

What's up with those schools? At UT, we get ID'd, and the TAs prowl up and down the aisles. I mean, I've seen cheating go on, but people aren't just reading their notes during class or IMing their friends! It's mostly getting the answer from the person next to you - and if you're friends, it's likely you're both incompetent crammers who aren't going to get ahead by cheating off each other!

Okay, that's my rant...those over-entitled, snotty little high schoolers last night really annoyed me. All done!

 

[gschl1234]

When I was in college a girl called me up in the middle of the night and begged me to take her chemistry exam for her the next morning. Obviously I didn't do it but I was really shocked anyone would even ask.

 

[DMBFan61]

Did anyone else think this - that most kids' parents are the mediocre sort of person who, deep down, doesn't really care if their kids cheat, as long as they get into a good school? It seems to me that there are plenty of incompetents who get ahead in business and in the real world through fraud, and they have to be passing that on to their kids somehow. Most people think school is stupid, tests are arbitrary, and teachers are mean; most people are sort of lazy. I mean, look at how many people lie on their resumes.

Cheaters drive me insane. I'm glad the MCAT is hard to cheat on...I heard from my health professions advisor there were a lot of people at my school the year before I applied that received a rude surprise on their MCAT score despite high GPAs...I knew some of them, and they spent all their undergrad cramming and cheating and never learned how to learn anything, so they had 4.0s but 27 MCATs.

What's up with those schools? At UT, we get ID'd, and the TAs prowl up and down the aisles. I mean, I've seen cheating go on, but people aren't just reading their notes during class or IMing their friends! It's mostly getting the answer from the person next to you - and if you're friends, it's likely you're both incompetent crammers who aren't going to get ahead by cheating off each other!

Okay, that's my rant...those over-entitled, snotty little high schoolers last night really annoyed me. All done!

I agree. Cheaters p!iss me off, but i don't share your view on the GPA/MCAT. A good friend of mine, who has never cheated to my knowledge, has a high gpa (3.9+), and we both took the Kaplan prep course. He studies hard, but at the end of the day, he is just a mediocre test taker. His highest kaplan full length was a 27, and he didn't merely blow the class off. We both spent hundreds of hours studying in the library, but ultimately, he is a poor test taker.

 

[curlycity]

I agree. Cheaters p!iss me off, but i don't share your view on the GPA/MCAT. A good friend of mine, who has never cheated to my knowledge, has a high gpa (3.9+), and we both took the Kaplan prep course. He studies hard, but at the end of the day, he is just a mediocre test taker. His highest kaplan full length was a 27, and he didn't merely blow the class off. We both spent hundreds of hours studying in the library, but ultimately, he is a poor test taker.

Oh sorry - I didn't mean to sound like a troll - one of my smartest friends got a 25 for the same reason. I was referring to a certain *type* of student. No offense guys...

 

[DMBFan61]

none taken, just wanted to clearify the fact that scores over 30 are somthing to be proud of....hours of hard work, good test skills, prepartion, ability to keep cool, etc.file:/usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html

 

[DMBFan61]

where did that last bit of crap come from!??!! wierd

 

[curlycity]

where did that last bit of crap come from!??!! wierd

a glitch in the Matrix?

ooh, I'm so embarrassing myself!!! nerd alert!!!

 

[DMBFan61]

a glitch in the Matrix?

ooh, I'm so embarrassing myself!!! nerd alert!!!

+karma for you...that weird crap exposes the fact that i am a linux user....TRUE NERD!!!!

 

[sacc]

My sister went to med school at UT San Antonio and in her class there was this girl who blatently cheated on exams throughout her first two years.
She would find out who was scoring the highest on exams and sit next to that person and simply look over and copy answers. She did it constantly and was reported several times by fellow students. In fact, the Dean of Students pulled her back into his office and had a couple of meetings with her about it but my sister said she never stopped.
She was so obvious that everyone in the class new it and ragged on her for it, and yet there she was, four years later standing next to my sister at graduation. Freakin' sickening.
I think she matched to some noname surgery residency. I've got her name somewhere, I should post it so if you guys ever see her you can make fun of her or something.

 

[Fritz]

Cheating is a relative term. How many people use the editing service? For a very comprehensive fee they will write up your entire AMCAS application. Is that cheating? It is a very legitimate bussiness though! I would not say that a premed who writes personal statements for money is cheating anyone. He is doing a bussiness venture, getting paid to write personal statements, the same way essay edge is getting paid to write personal statements. What really surprizes me is that it is outrageous for a premed to do it, but it is not outrageous for a firm.
Maybe it is just me, but I see a double standard here. Nobody complained when, a while ago, on a thread, people asked if essay edge was good.

Fritz.

 

[DMBFan61]

Cheating is a relative term. How many people use the editing service? For a very comprehensive fee they will write up your entire AMCAS application. Is that cheating? It is a very legitimate bussiness though! I would not say that a premed who writes personal statements for money is cheating anyone. He is doing a bussiness venture, getting paid to write personal statements, the same way essay edge is getting paid to write personal statements. What really surprizes me is that it is outrageous for a premed to do it, but it is not outrageous for a firm.
Maybe it is just me, but I see a double standard here. Nobody complained when, a while ago, on a thread, people asked if essay edge was good.

Fritz.

Although Im not sure if i think these services are "cheating", isn't it sort of the cheesy thing to do. I mean, it's YOUR personal statement. Yeah, its sometimes tough to wirte, but its important to let schools know who you really are.

 

[gschl1234]

I agree. Cheaters p!iss me off, but i don't share your view on the GPA/MCAT. A good friend of mine, who has never cheated to my knowledge, has a high gpa (3.9+), and we both took the Kaplan prep course. He studies hard, but at the end of the day, he is just a mediocre test taker. His highest kaplan full length was a 27, and he didn't merely blow the class off. We both spent hundreds of hours studying in the library, but ultimately, he is a poor test taker.

I don't get it. If he's such a poor test taker, how did he get through all the tests in college to end up with a 3.9? While I was in college, most of my classes consisted of 2-3 exams + the final exam and no outside work. Did you guys have a lot of "homework"?

 

[DMBFan61]

I don't get it. If he's such a poor test taker, how did he get through all the tests in college to end up with a 3.9? While I was in college, most of my classes consisted of 2-3 exams + the final exam and no outside work. Did you guys have a lot of "homework"?

no hardly any outside work. when i said poor test taker i was referring to standardized testing.

 

[gschl1234]

My sister went to med school at UT San Antonio and in her class there was this girl who blatently cheated on exams throughout her first two years.
She would find out who was scoring the highest on exams and sit next to that person and simply look over and copy answers. She did it constantly and was reported several times by fellow students. In fact, the Dean of Students pulled her back into his office and had a couple of meetings with her about it but my sister said she never stopped.
She was so obvious that everyone in the class new it and ragged on her for it, and yet there she was, four years later standing next to my sister at graduation. Freakin' sickening.
I think she matched to some noname surgery residency. I've got her name somewhere, I should post it so if you guys ever see her you can make fun of her or something.

My biochem professor (at my local uni where I'm taking a few classes) talked about this at the beginning of class today. He said that last year, a girl was caught cheating and they threw her out for 1 year and gave her an F in the class where she cheated. I never heard of anyone cheating at my undergrad, though, alhtough I'm sure it happened. I guess it depends on the school.

 

[Amy B]

Cheating is a relative term. How many people use the editing service? For a very comprehensive fee they will write up your entire AMCAS application. Is that cheating? It is a very legitimate bussiness though! I would not say that a premed who writes personal statements for money is cheating anyone. He is doing a bussiness venture, getting paid to write personal statements, the same way essay edge is getting paid to write personal statements. What really surprizes me is that it is outrageous for a premed to do it, but it is not outrageous for a firm.
Maybe it is just me, but I see a double standard here. Nobody complained when, a while ago, on a thread, people asked if essay edge was good.

Fritz.

He said if he has to embelish or make up things on their personal essays, then he does to make it better. That is dishonest.

 

[gschl1234]

He said if he has to embelish or make up things on their personal essays, then he does to make it better. That is dishonest.

Man, what will these applicants do if they actually get an interview? What if they get asked about these made-up things?

 

[Amy B]

During a conversation about essays with the dean at MCV, she told me of an applicant that had a great essay....until they started talking to him. She said he couldn't talk about what he had put in his essay. They knew he was lying and he was of course not offered an acceptance.