printing articles to get honors

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barasch

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Hello Everyone.

Despite the fact that it probably cost me an 'H' on my last rotation, I never print out articles to give out on rounds. I think it's silly to print out these articles and give them to people only to have them pause for a few moments in the pockets of their white coats as they pass to the trash can. Ridiculous. I doubt very much that any resident would think to him/herself - 'this is a great article - good thing barasch brought it in for us - I'll read it tonight instead of sleeping or going out with my friends.'

Ridiculous.
 
Hello Everyone.

Despite the fact that it probably cost me an 'H' on my last rotation, I never print out articles to give out on rounds. I think it's silly to print out these articles and give them to people only to have them pause for a few moments in the pockets of their white coats as they pass to the trash can. Ridiculous. I doubt very much that any resident would think to him/herself - 'this is a great article - good thing barasch brought it in for us - I'll read it tonight instead of sleeping or going out with my friends.'

Ridiculous.

I was never one of these people either, but on occasion I would go learn about something that might help the team and, instead of passing out an article on the subject, gave a little talk during some downtime. "Hey we were talking about lovenox vs. heparin with Mr. Smith the other day, and I was reading..." that kind of thing. Offer to pull it up on uptodate if they're really interested.
 
One of my med school clerkship evals (pediatrics) contained a comment, "yaah should demonstrate more interest by doing things like bringing in relevant articles." What a crock this was. When I had an interesting case I would spend time reading about it, reviewing things, and showed up at rounds and talked briefly about the entity and its relevance. I guess that didn't count. It would have been better if I spent 10% of the time and simply went to pubmed and printed out a review article (which I didn't even have to read). That was what my co-student did and he got honors PLUS a comment that said he was very enthusiastic and went above and beyond by doing things like printing out relevant articles. I don't blame him though, I blame the residents who fell for his schlock.
 
Basically, third year is an awful piece of s#!t which leaves your entire future and career up to the subjective impression you make on a select group of people who hardly know you, and rewards people for being sleazy, slimy, and manipulative. In short, it rewards sociopaths. A quiet, honest, intelligent person doesn't stand a damned chance.

This girl I know who doesn't understand anything she's taught in the classroom, bombs all of her tests, and can't spell words correctly...has HONORED all 4 of her rotations so far, thanks to nothing but her huge mouth and horribly fake pseudo-friendly personality.

I absolutely, positively hate third year. I just hope I can minimize the damage enough to avoid destroying all of my prior achievements and land a good spot on match day.

👎
 
I didn't bring in articles unless I was told to.

On my psych eval, it said "Needed to provide more primary materials for team." Or some BS like that. I had brought in articles as I was asked every day for the first 2 weeks, but my attending would never look at them. I stopped after 2 weeks of wasting paper.
 
This is really quite interesting; I've never experienced this where I'm training.

If you pulled something like that around here, you'd better know everything about everything regarding medicine, because obviously, making diagnosis, managing inpatients and learning medicine is getting too boring. The proteome that's where it's at...right...Oh the attendings would have a field day...

Next time someone hands you an article, skim the abstract and the conclusion page and grill your "peer". They'll be squeezing out briskets in minutes.

Haha! Now that would be a sight to see!
 
Okay I'm going to post the opposite perspective just for the heck of it. I will say however that I pretty much only brought in articles if it was clearly warranted, like, "hey, why don't you read up on _____ and tell the team a real short summary of it tomorrow", or "hey, we have a patient with _____, can you present a paper for chair rounds" or something. So it was always solicited and topical. In this case, definitely do it, and make sure you know:
1) the gist of the article. be able to summarize what they looked at and why, and what they found
2) what was interesting or germaine about the article - "I thought I'd bring in this article because it was relevant to Mr. Smith's antibiotic regimen..."
3) one or two criticisms of the article
4) try to tie it into a specific patient or scenario at your hospital. like if you're doing a paper on a new rad onc technique, ask a rad onc at your hospital if they do it here.
I mean if you don't know anything about the topic to begin with, and you don't really read the article, it's pointless because you'll look stupid anyway. But feel it out.

Third year is all about feeling it out. The chick (or dude) complaining about third year may have been undeservedly burned on an eval or grade or two, but to that I'd say take that not as an indication that you're not kissing enough ass, but that you need to work on being a recognizably contributing member of the team, and it should be a heads-up that you need some good face time with attendings to get good evals. If you interpret that as kissing ass, fine, many people do. That doesn't mean you have to take that route. Attendings are people. They can usually see through asskissing and phoniness, but hey fake or not, enthusiasm for medicine is appreciated. So don't fake it, and don't force it. But honestly, there are lots of people who work hard, contribute to the team, know their stuff, and look good. If you follow my above algorithm for looking good presenting a paper, does that make you fake? It's a strategy, it's unoriginal, and it's not entirely organic in nature. My contention is that heck, does it really matter? You read Step-Up instead of the most recent AHA guidelines for coronary artery disease risk factors. You got advice from a fellow student that Dr. Peterson wants to know glucose trends during rounds. You do all this stuff and you're not 100% forthright about how you're conjuring it, I say it doesn't make you phony, it makes you smart. What's the difference between asking a strategic question to make you look thoughtful and a sincere question because you are thoughtful? Only you can know that. But do it anyway. Likewise, do things like going the extra mile not because it looks good (although it does), but because you really are enthusiastic. If you're not, you don't have to fake it, but I've heard people complain about refusing to kiss ass to get a grade, when part of me wonders if it's really that the whole "ass-kissers get the grades" belief is a crutch because they just don't have the enthusiasm to do what the asskissers do, but with sincerity. Do what you gotta do man, but if it bothers you to do it when you aren't 100% sincere in your intentions, then don't and have no regrets. But anyone who thinks that superficial impressions aren't a big part of medicine are high. High on dope.
 
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The worst thing is when someone starts an "article arms race" - i.e. student A brings in an article, so student B brings in another, then another. Every day an endless pile of BS and butt-kissing.

Almost as bad as the student presentation arms race - student A makes an outline and brings handouts; so student B busts out the powerpoint.

Blech. Third year drives me nuts some times.
 
The handout thing is ridiculous. Every time we have to do a presentation, I beg the other students, "Please, please can we have a hand-out-free series of presentations." Usually, people are willing to disarm bi-laterally and we can de-escalate the hand-out arms race. The last time I gave a presentation someone said she found the handouts useful.

I made a handwritten handout and photocopied it. I'm sure it's in the trash now. This time I decided to save the handout and try to reuse it the next time I have to give a presentation.
 
shoot i would do anything to go back to earlier in the year when handout-giving ass-kissing med students were all i had to deal with. I have now experienced med students on my team offering to change a residents flat tire (in below zero degree temps) and also bringing in baked goods for rounds (no joke). what the hell is wrong with these people? whoever made that point earlier about honest, intelligent, quiet people who get their **** done without making a fuss and paging the intern 40 times a day getting dicked over was right on.

what i can't understand is why these residents don't see through this bull****? i can see the fakeness a half mile away. people who do horribly on the shelf but get great evals seem to be getting all the honors which makes absolutely no fcking sense in the world. what's the point of even having a goddamn shelf then? just make it all evals so that all the ass kissing *****s can get AOA and all the bright kids can do family med and psych.

the worst thing i have experienced this year is the fact that i have lost so much respect for several of my "close" friends from 1st and 2nd year. Being on a team with these people and seeing what they are capable of stooping to has been horrendous. It is so pathetic to watch, i pity all of them.
 
shoot i would do anything to go back to earlier in the year when handout-giving ass-kissing med students were all i had to deal with. I have now experienced med students on my team offering to change a residents flat tire (in below zero degree temps) and also bringing in baked goods for rounds (no joke). what the hell is wrong with these people? whoever made that point earlier about honest, intelligent, quiet people who get their **** done without making a fuss and paging the intern 40 times a day getting dicked over was right on.

On the last day of one rotation, a student brought in a custom cookie basket from this ridiculously nice bakery - I half debated looking up how much it cost, but I'm sure it was more than $50. And the student wasn't even going into that specialty!! There was a part of me that wanted to talk to our dean on that one - it seemed to be getting dangerously close to bribery.

what i can't understand is why these residents don't see through this bull****? i can see the fakeness a half mile away. people who do horribly on the shelf but get great evals seem to be getting all the honors which makes absolutely no fcking sense in the world. what's the point of even having a goddamn shelf then? just make it all evals so that all the ass kissing *****s can get AOA and all the bright kids can do family med and psych.

My only solace is that there are a few residents who can in fact see through the BS - I've talked to a couple of residents I ended up being pretty good friends with about this, and they said the only time they ever really speak up to their attendings about grades are when they notice things like this. That said, more often than not this kind of behavior ends up getting rewarded.

the worst thing i have experienced this year is the fact that i have lost so much respect for several of my "close" friends from 1st and 2nd year. Being on a team with these people and seeing what they are capable of stooping to has been horrendous. It is so pathetic to watch, i pity all of them.

Agreed. I have lost respect for a lot of my classmates.
 
I have now experienced med students on my team offering to change a residents flat tire (in below zero degree temps) and also bringing in baked goods for rounds (no joke). what the hell is wrong with these people?
Get over it. While changing someone's tire seems excessive and it probably not necessary/appropriate, lots of us are nice people and do nice things for our teams without caring about the grade we're getting. I have absolutely brought in baked goods to share with other people at work, not because I desperately was begging for a good grade, but because I enjoy cooking and sharing what I make. How does that hurt you? It doesn't seem to me that I've earned better grades on rotations where I brought something in than on rotations where I didn't. Many of your classmates who you have lost all respect for may just be pleasant people--something you might want to consider when all you seem to be focusing on is the shelf and "getting your **** done without bothering the intern."
 
Get over it. While changing someone's tire seems excessive and it probably not necessary/appropriate, lots of us are nice people and do nice things for our teams without caring about the grade we're getting. I have absolutely brought in baked goods to share with other people at work, not because I desperately was begging for a good grade, but because I enjoy cooking and sharing what I make. How does that hurt you? It doesn't seem to me that I've earned better grades on rotations where I brought something in than on rotations where I didn't. Many of your classmates who you have lost all respect for may just be pleasant people--something you might want to consider when all you seem to be focusing on is the shelf and "getting your **** done without bothering the intern."

You don't see how doing things like this could upset your classmates? People just want to evaluated on the merits of their work and their knowledge. Not on the nice/pleasant favors they did and gifts they brought for the team. Whether or not it affected your grade is a moot point since it is subjective and neither you nor anybody else besides the evaluator know for sure. You say changing someones tire seems excessive, I think bringing in baked goods is excessive and probably not necessary/appropriate.
 
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Get over it. While changing someone's tire seems excessive and it probably not necessary/appropriate, lots of us are nice people and do nice things for our teams without caring about the grade we're getting. I have absolutely brought in baked goods to share with other people at work, not because I desperately was begging for a good grade, but because I enjoy cooking and sharing what I make. How does that hurt you? It doesn't seem to me that I've earned better grades on rotations where I brought something in than on rotations where I didn't. Many of your classmates who you have lost all respect for may just be pleasant people--something you might want to consider when all you seem to be focusing on is the shelf and "getting your **** done without bothering the intern."

The worst is this kind of person who has actually found a justification for his ass-kissing. You, sir, are even worse than the guy who openly admits he guns. I wonder how your other teammates felt about this, you were probably completely oblivious to it though.

It is all well and good that you love cooking and love baking or whatever. But once you put those muffins in a basket and brought said basket in on rounds the next day you crossed the line from a cook to a brown noser.

The point isn't about being nice, it is about being professional. I would most definitely help a person out if they were stuck at 2 am on the side of the road and it was pouring rain and it looked like they needed help. In fact, i have done just that in the past. To do that for someone who is in control of your evaluations and thus your grades is just pathetic and you can justify it anyway you like (i am a nice person, they really needed my help, i want them to enjoy my baking etc etc) but in the end you are just another med student trying to do anything possible to up his worth and get a better grade for it.

I'm sure all your residents ate it up too...literally.
 
UnderdogMD said:
You don't see how doing things like this could upset your classmates? People just want to evaluated on the merits of their work and their knowledge. Not on the nice/pleasant favors they did and gifts they brought for the team. Whether or not it affected your grade is a moot point since it is subjective and neither you nor anybody else besides the evaluator know for sure. You say changing someones tire seems excessive, I think bringing in baked goods is excessive and probably not necessary/appropriate.
Good for you. The point is that it doesn't really matter whether it's something you would do or not. Ascribing motives to your classmates based on nothing other than a worldview that has been warped by this many years of higher education into "everything is about grades" is not appropriate. You can choose what to do with yourself (changing a tire seems excessive to me, and I wouldn't do it, but it's frankly none of my business if one of my classmates does), but don't judge your classmates motives without having a firm basis for it.

The worst is this kind of person who has actually found a justification for his ass-kissing. You, sir, are even worse than the guy who openly admits he guns. I wonder how your other teammates felt about this, you were probably completely oblivious to it though.

It is all well and good that you love cooking and love baking or whatever. But once you put those muffins in a basket and brought said basket in on rounds the next day you crossed the line from a cook to a brown noser.

The point isn't about being nice, it is about being professional. I would most definitely help a person out if they were stuck at 2 am on the side of the road and it was pouring rain and it looked like they needed help. In fact, i have done just that in the past. To do that for someone who is in control of your evaluations and thus your grades is just pathetic and you can justify it anyway you like (i am a nice person, they really needed my help, i want them to enjoy my baking etc etc) but in the end you are just another med student trying to do anything possible to up his worth and get a better grade for it.

I'm sure all your residents ate it up too...literally.

Believe it or not, being a professional requires working with your colleagues. Every minute of my day is not about grades nor is everything I do based around medicine. Many people, myself included, believe that it is entirely reasonable to be generous to your team. Whether you would bring in baked goods or not is irrelevant. As a professional it is your responsibility to work with people from a variety of backgrounds who might do things differently from what you would do. That includes classmates who might come from places where it is considered polite to share with others. Certainly, judging those people as "ass-kissers" without further justification is not a professional response.

Professionalism also requires strong working relationships with other people. That can include bringing in food to share, offering to help another student or resident with work, or asking someone how there weekend was. Professionals are able to have friendly relationships with each other without giving up their professionalism. Certainly, the residents who I shared baked goods with had no trouble critiquing my clinical performance on my evaluations. Professionalism allows people to have friendships and relationships with peers, supervisors, and supervisees while also allowing for work-related business to take place.

Look, I am applying in pediatrics--not the most competitive field out there. My grades, frankly, just aren't that important in the big scheme of things. I am not motivated by getting straight honors (and for what it's worth, I didn't). My shelf scores are on part with my clinical scores. My motivation was not grades. For you or others to judge my motivation based on what would presumably be your motivation is not reasonable nor professional.
 
Get over it. While changing someone's tire seems excessive and it probably not necessary/appropriate,

Haha, another 3rd year actually did this recently (in sub zero temps too!!). It would be pretty hilarious if we are talking about the same person.
 
I am going to medical school in Sep and happen to run across this. I think both sides have a point, but I am terribly worried since I am the kind of person who is quiet and intelligent (which means I don't stand a chance of getting honors during third year). Man, better utilize my time now to learn how to fix tires in sub-zero temp before it is too late!
 
I am going to medical school in Sep and happen to run across this. I think both sides have a point, but I am terribly worried since I am the kind of person who is quiet and intelligent (which means I don't stand a chance of getting honors during third year). Man, better utilize my time now to learn how to fix tires in sub-zero temp before it is too late!

That's not true at all. See, this is the misconception that threads & attitudes like these perpetuate. You're already resigning any chance of getting honors third year? That kind of attitude is actually what will make it impossible, not your personality.

Listen, social factors are a HUGE part of practicing medicine. You have to engage in the social component of medicine if you want to be successful. If you can't work well with others, develop rapport with patients and colleagues, give a positive impression to your colleagues, and get yourself out there to showcase in some way your strengths, you'll never get letters of rec, good evals, good cases, fellowships, faculty support, consults, referrals, appointments, promotions, job offers, practice partnerships, and yeah, even friends.

This isn't a fairy objective standardized test land any more folks, this is the real world. People in every industry in the world accept this component of their working life without much complaint. The fact is, medicine is actually lighter on this sort of stuff than most industries. How can you expect attendings to evaluate you if you're silent during rounds? How can you expect a letter of rec if you don't demonstrate your own motivation to go above and beyond? How can you develop very human relationships with people with whom you either refuse or are unable to chat up, converse professionally, or laugh with?

The bottom line is that the so called "silent, intelligent types" are no more intelligent than the rest of us, you're just more silent than the rest of us. Whether or not it's a crippling illness or dysfunction on your part is irrelevant. It's like anything in medical school - either get it done or don't. It doesn't make the people who speak up superficial twits who ass-kiss their way to overshadow your greatness, it makes you a pansy for not having the guts to make a joke here or there, to volunteer for tasks, to ask questions you put some thought into, to prepare ahead of time & afterwards on patients & presentations, and to take on the universally-known go-getter attitude that classically accompanies success. You can be the smartest guy in the world but if you can't talk to a colleague or superior in a way that shows your professional demeanor, you are just as DEFICIENT in a clinical setting as the guy who's dumb as a rock but you think kisses ass to get his honors.

Just go be yourself (in a demonstrable way), show your enthusiasm, interest, and this "intelligence" we hear so much about, and don't hide behind excuses and conspiracy theories about how everyone's against you.
 
I think Jeff made a good point but every "queit, honest, intelligent person" can sometimes feel that it is unfair that other people are getting an edge simply by being "sleazy, slimy, and manipulative". Maybe being"sleazy, slimy and manipulative" (or the ability to kiss the attending's ass) is also a measure of one's intelligence. If that's the case, I guess there is little to complain about except doing the best one could and trying to improve one's ability to socialize and get along with people. It could be worse in banking or law

Basically, third year is an awful piece of s#!t which leaves your entire future and career up to the subjective impression you make on a select group of people who hardly know you, and rewards people for being sleazy, slimy, and manipulative. In short, it rewards sociopaths. A quiet, honest, intelligent person doesn't stand a damned chance.

This girl I know who doesn't understand anything she's taught in the classroom, bombs all of her tests, and can't spell words correctly...has HONORED all 4 of her rotations so far, thanks to nothing but her huge mouth and horribly fake pseudo-friendly personality.

I absolutely, positively hate third year. I just hope I can minimize the damage enough to avoid destroying all of my prior achievements and land a good spot on match day.

👎
 
The bottom line is that the so called "silent, intelligent types" are no more intelligent than the rest of us, you're just more silent than the rest of us. Whether or not it's a crippling illness or dysfunction on your part is irrelevant. It's like anything in medical school - either get it done or don't. It doesn't make the people who speak up superficial twits who ass-kiss their way to overshadow your greatness, it makes you a pansy for not having the guts to make a joke here or there, to volunteer for tasks, to ask questions you put some thought into, to prepare ahead of time & afterwards on patients & presentations, and to take on the universally-known go-getter attitude that classically accompanies success. You can be the smartest guy in the world but if you can't talk to a colleague or superior in a way that shows your professional demeanor, you are just as DEFICIENT in a clinical setting as the guy who's dumb as a rock but you think kisses ass to get his honors.

This is definitely true - I'm normally a fairly quiet guy, but I think that medicine has by necessity made me a lot more comfortable putting myself out there, speaking in public, meeting new people, etc. It's a part of the job - both in short term (third year success) and long term (practicing medicine).

I don't think that "quiet" people should resign themselves to getting screwed over third year. I don't think anyone should resign themselves to getting screwed over, actually.

If you are on a rotation where someone else is being an ass-kisser or a gunner, it's time to pull your guns out of the holster and do your best to shine in your own way - not just accept that the suck-up will get honors and you will get a poor eval.
 
Students who bring in baked goods don't bother me too much. I brought in doughnut holes once, in a pediatrics office where I really liked the staff, and the doctors were too healthy to eat more than one. The staff, however, scarfed them down.

At least you (or I) can (as the quiet student) partake in the baked goods. The ridiculous articles never get read and everyone has more work to do - the articles must be tossed!
 
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