Prior service w/ options?

[Croooz]

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I've PM'd others before about my situation. Briefly, 10 year prior service applying to medical school in the not so near future. My issue is very few no without question what specialty they are going to get into prior to school. That being the case the HPSP seems like such a gamble in terms of ensuring a residency. Those about to sign notice that I have 10 years experience and am worried about the gamble...take heed. Anyway, I've met quite a number of physicians who got what they wanted and others who settled. I don't want to settle when I finally decide what it is I want.

I don't think I have much of a choice on whether or not I sign up. I don't have the time to earn the salary to payback medical school. I will be 37 when I start school. So off to the military I go. USUHS would be the best financial venue for me to go to school and it also offers points in terms of residencies and just being part of the "in" crowd.

How have the HPSP people here dealt with what they chose? Did you get what you wanted? If so, great...share. If not, then how did it work for you?

Truth be told I'm a ways away from even applying but the more I remain "civilianised" the less I want back in. However, starting over at 41 with med school debt and depleted investments just doesn't really inspire.

What say you? Civilian at 41 with $300k+ in school debt or the military alternative (deployments, time away from family, redtape.........to finally get a pension of an O4 over 20, no school debt, $$ during school???

What about FAP? I know of only 1 physician who came in under FAP but he's out soliciting funds for research or something so I can't talk to him. This seems like a good alternative but I ain't to sure these days.

The other unfortunate thing is I'm attracted to surgery (trauma), EMED or general surgery.......just ripe for getting ubber deployments.

What to do? What to do???

 

[island doc]

I've PM'd others before about my situation. Briefly, 10 year prior service applying to medical school in the not so near future. My issue is very few no without question what specialty they are going to get into prior to school. That being the case the HPSP seems like such a gamble in terms of ensuring a residency. Those about to sign notice that I have 10 years experience and am worried about the gamble...take heed. Anyway, I've met quite a number of physicians who got what they wanted and others who settled. I don't want to settle when I finally decide what it is I want.

I don't think I have much of a choice on whether or not I sign up. I don't have the time to earn the salary to payback medical school. I will be 37 when I start school. So off to the military I go. USUHS would be the best financial venue for me to go to school and it also offers points in terms of residencies and just being part of the "in" crowd.

How have the HPSP people here dealt with what they chose? Did you get what you wanted? If so, great...share. If not, then how did it work for you?

Truth be told I'm a ways away from even applying but the more I remain "civilianised" the less I want back in. However, starting over at 41 with med school debt and depleted investments just doesn't really inspire.

What say you? Civilian at 41 with $300k+ in school debt or the military alternative (deployments, time away from family, redtape.........to finally get a pension of an O4 over 20, no school debt, $$ during school???

What about FAP? I know of only 1 physician who came in under FAP but he's out soliciting funds for research or something so I can't talk to him. This seems like a good alternative but I ain't to sure these days.

The other unfortunate thing is I'm attracted to surgery (trauma), EMED or general surgery.......just ripe for getting ubber deployments.

What to do? What to do???

Sounds like you are in almost the same situation I was in back in 1992. At that time I was a 32 y.o. active duty line officer with 6 years service applying to medical school. At that time, I interests were similar to yours but was unable to pursue them because I went HPSP. In other words, the military did not allow me to pursue the residency of my choice. In fact, I was not even allowed to complete anything other than an internship before being put to work as a GMO. I was not allowed to finished residency until after I had put in my four years as a GMO and separated. So be forewarned: If you choose HPSP you will become a "pawn". You will sacrifice your freedom of choice to pursue whatever specialty you desire, because "the needs of the military come first". As it turned out, I ended up separating as an O-4 with 10 years active duty service, in order to complete residency training (in something that was not my choice early on).

My advice: stay away from the military. Be a civilian and enjoy freedom.

 

[Croooz]

WOW 😱

So how'd you pay for school? This is truthfully my concern. I'm not aware of the payscale for the areas I'm interested in. I have people give me what they think but they aren't physicians and are just guessing at best. My main concern is "losing out" on the pension. However, I see time and time again of physicians who get out with 12, 14, 16, and even a few at 18 years so I guess money shouldn't be a concern.......

Any info where to find a good approximation of EMED and surgery salaries around the country?

What specialty did you get into?

 

[island doc]

WOW 😱

So how'd you pay for school? This is truthfully my concern. I'm not aware of the payscale for the areas I'm interested in. I have people give me what they think but they aren't physicians and are just guessing at best. My main concern is "losing out" on the pension. However, I see time and time again of physicians who get out with 12, 14, 16, and even a few at 18 years so I guess money shouldn't be a concern.......

Any info where to find a good approximation of EMED and surgery salaries around the country?

What specialty did you get into?

You pay for it through financial aid. Your medical school will have a financial aid office who will help you. Their purpose will be to help you obtain the necessary financial support to get you through. Furthermore, after you complete your education there are many opportunities available for loan repayment, even the military if you so choose.

As for the military pension, there is always the guard or reserve which will preserve that for you. However, keep in mind that the pension is determined on base pay only, not based upon medical special pays (physician bonuses), so your retirement pay would only be that of a line officer, not a physician. Considering that, it is less of a good deal for a physician.

As a civilian EM, on average you could expect to earn in the range of $200,000-300,000 per year. For more information on physician salaries, I suggest you do an internet search on the subject.

Given your situation, it is easy to feel that you are trapped in the active duty military, but it is important to realize that you are not. There are many other financial options.

 

[Heeed!]

...take heed.

Take me where?

 

[RichL025]

Crooz,

How'd you like the military <g>? COuld you stand doing it for a good chunk of the rest of your life?

I went USUHS after 14 yrs as an NCO. Graduating next May, thinking hard about surgery... what can I say, it's the only think that's really grabbed me.

FWIW, it almost seems to me that HPSP people have it a bit easier these days for residency selection- the army is getting away from GMOs (so they say) and want everyone to do residencies. As USUHS you are pretty much forced into a military residency - but with HPSP you can go either way (insert favorite joke here) - you just have to match into the programs you want like every other civilian (you do have to _apply_ for all the programs in your chosen specialty, which means if you want to do surgery, you will _have_ to apply to El Paso and Eisenhower, etc. And that means you could get accepted there and have to do it).

Sorry if the above isn't lucid. 0300 and just got off-shift from the ED. Reply back if you want more semi-coherent musings on the subject.

 

[Croooz]

The military began to loose it's "luster" toward the end of my time. I never asked anything of the detailers and went where I was needed more than where I wanted. In the end I asked for an extra year at a shore command....THE HORROR! I extended my sea tour by a year with ZERO complaints I ask for the same thing on shore and now it's a problem. SOY, 5.0 eval, Staff LOC's and the works......in the end the detailer said he couldn't promise me a year but would keep me as long as he "could". "The second a hotfill billet comes up you'll be the first to go" Ummmmmmm..... NO!

So I got out to finish school and go to graduate school and come back in as an HC administrator. Decided I didn't care to be part of the problem in military medicine to come back in as an administrator....so have since switched to medicine and now with the dilemma.

Anyhow, thinking about it seriously even if I got a guaranteed slot at the residency of my choice I still have a problem with the deployments. BTDT.

 

[IgD]

I discovered that freedom was not an option. Either the bank or the military owns you. Chose your poison. I chose the latter. I'm doing well financially but have no control over what I wear, where I work, etc. Having prior military experience would probably make military medicine attractive even more financially (you'd be an O3 with x instead of an O3 with zero like I was).

We had a poster similar to you complain once that he had been turned down for the HPSP scholarship. There was some speculation that was because it would cost the military more money because of the pay grade.

How solid of a candidate are you? USUHS is designed for people with prior service and you might have the best chance of getting a position there. If you are sure you want to stay in 20 USUHS might be the best choice.

You can be whatever kind of doctor you want in the military. (It may take patience and a couple GMO tours to get the position however).

 

[Croooz]

IgD,
What's your specialty? Which branch? Are you going to do the full 20? How have you and yours dealt with the deployments, if any?

 

[chopperdoc]

Fellas,
Glad to hear that there are folks out there who are still excited about military medicine. Some of the posters on this site are very frustrating -- the miltary makes for a tough lifestyle, medicine also makes for a tough lifestyle -- suck it up and drive on! I don't understand why military medicine is so disenchanting for some -- did they really not realize what they were signing up for?
I'm was active duty Army for five years and am on an Army HPSP. I have no complaints about the program -- it is great, but you can't just do it for the money, you've really got to want to serve in the military or else you'll be miserable, like so many of the posters on this site. As far as GMO tours go, I don't know anyone who has graduated Army HPSP within the last several years who has had to do one. The Army has made an effort to make sure everyone gets residency trained. At my school last year, 2 people matched in military programs and 3 matched in civilian programs -- they all got to do excatly what they wanted! As far as I understand, that is the standard. I just want you to know that I'm excited about military medicine and looking forward to doing a military residency. Take everything else you here on this site with a grain of salt. If you are prior service, you know what to expect from the military. Like anything else, there are positive and negatives. Nuff said.
Peace.

 

[USAFdoc]

Fellas,
Glad to hear that there are folks out there who are still excited about military medicine. Some of the posters on this site are very frustrating -- the miltary makes for a tough lifestyle, medicine also makes for a tough lifestyle -- suck it up and drive on! I don't understand why military medicine is so disenchanting for some -- did they really not realize what they were signing up for?
I'm was active duty Army for five years and am on an Army HPSP. I have no complaints about the program -- it is great, but you can't just do it for the money, you've really got to want to serve in the military or else you'll be miserable, like so many of the posters on this site. As far as GMO tours go, I don't know anyone who has graduated Army HPSP within the last several years who has had to do one. The Army has made an effort to make sure everyone gets residency trained. At my school last year, 2 people matched in military programs and 3 matched in civilian programs -- they all got to do excatly what they wanted! As far as I understand, that is the standard. I just want you to know that I'm excited about military medicine and looking forward to doing a military residency. Take everything else you here on this site with a grain of salt. If you are prior service, you know what to expect from the military. Like anything else, there are positive and negatives. Nuff said.
Peace.

chopper;
I realize your intentions are great, your love of medicine and the military is great. "suck it up" is a wonderful attitude. But lets be a little realistic here (and lets also ask where have you been a primary care doc in the military so that we understand and can put some weight behind your opinions that military medicine is just a "mix of the good and the bad".

I am prior enlisted and I knew what to expect about military life. My concerns are not about military life.
The FACT that my admin department had built up a a pile of uncharted, 20 feet high, single sheets of lab results, consultant results etc, that my clinic of 31 staff was typically staffed at 6-8 people, that I routinely saw patients with abnormal labs such as sugars of 200-400 and cholesterols of 300+ and they were never told or treated, that 60% of the time we never received consultant results back, that against the recommendations of 100% of the docs - our Commander started a sick call in which we saw dozens of patients from 0645 till 0930 yet the still scheduled reg appt starting at 0800 so we started off 1-2 hours behind sched everyday with our reg patients..... and I could go on. These are not "military problems" these are BAD admin problems and undermanning issues, and in "military medicine" admin does not have to answer to docs -- EVER. These issues promote poor patient care and poor physician retention (my prev base has had a ZERO retention rate for 15 years).

Why you and some others on this site find it so easy to just label these concerns as "just the good with the bad" etc ...is really adsurd.
Military medicine is NOT 100% bad, but as it is in many clinics, it is bad enough that no doc will ever volunteeer to practice that kind of medicine in that kind of clinic. ZERO% retention is the natural outcome of a bad health care system.

I now have a wonderful life and clinic and I am really enjoying being a family doc again, and having the opportunity to give excellent healthcare. I still work my butt off, but at least I now have the chance to succeed.

My last clinic had over 10,000 patients and many days we had only 1-2 providers (sometimes only one, and that was a PA). I know my limits and I cannot take good care of that many patients, ever, and certainly not with a skeleton crew support staff and zero authority to make changes.

CHOPPER; My guess is you are not currrently practicing in a clinic. I hope things are better for you and your patients by the time you are.

 

[Croooz]

USAFdoc,
So what is your recommendation? Civilian, HPSP, or USUHS. If military, which branch?

Anyway........as of this second I am teetering on the civilian side of the fence. I'm not sure I could deal with much of the admin drama. See, I still work where I was once stationed and so am not far from the Navy redtape and nonsense. Putting the uniform back on would be a challenge.

I'm not anti-military. Just anti-HPSP.......if you don't know what you're getting into. Someone with prior service has a better idea what to expect but expectations and experience are not the same. Just like a medical students perspective vs a resident vs an attending vs deployed vs......

Thanks for the direction so far but what would you guys do given my situation...age, debt, prior service, family, deployments,...... This is what I'd like to know.

 

[MoosePilot]

USAFdoc,
So what is your recommendation? Civilian, HPSP, or USUHS. If military, which branch?

Anyway........as of this second I am teetering on the civilian side of the fence. I'm not sure I could deal with much of the admin drama. See, I still work where I was once stationed and so am not far from the Navy redtape and nonsense. Putting the uniform back on would be a challenge.

I'm not anti-military. Just anti-HPSP.......if you don't know what you're getting into. Someone with prior service has a better idea what to expect but expectations and experience are not the same. Just like a medical students perspective vs a resident vs an attending vs deployed vs......

Thanks for the direction so far but what would you guys do given my situation...age, debt, prior service, family, deployments,...... This is what I'd like to know.

If you're teetering on the civilian side... well, maybe you've already halfway made up your mind.

I know I'm going to kick myself at some point. Knowing I'm going back into a huge time debt is tough, because it feels so good to finally have some control back.

I come from a fairly poor family and the thought of having a pension before I'm 50 and a medical degree to boot... that's pretty invaluable. If anything happens to me, I can sit around, read paperback novels, and still have a paycheck. If it weren't for the retirment, I would probably run and never look back.

Look at the pros and cons. The retirement is significant financial incentive, since you only have 10 more "counter" years to put in to get there. 4 years of school, 3 of residency, 7 of payback, then you retire and start your private practice while making a paycheck on the side that might help you get established. I weigh that and have decided that it's worth it for me.

I haven't ever served in a primary care billet, though 😛

 

[USAFdoc]

If you're teetering on the civilian side... well, maybe you've already halfway made up your mind.

I know I'm going to kick myself at some point. Knowing I'm going back into a huge time debt is tough, because it feels so good to finally have some control back.

I come from a fairly poor family and the thought of having a pension before I'm 50 and a medical degree to boot... that's pretty invaluable. If anything happens to me, I can sit around, read paperback novels, and still have a paycheck. If it weren't for the retirment, I would probably run and never look back.

Look at the pros and cons. The retirement is significant financial incentive, since you only have 10 more "counter" years to put in to get there. 4 years of school, 3 of residency, 7 of payback, then you retire and start your private practice while making a paycheck on the side that might help you get established. I weigh that and have decided that it's worth it for me.

I haven't ever served in a primary care billet, though 😛

what to do?

well, being a doc means 2 things almost always...you will always get a job, and you will always be in the top 10% tax bracket. So money to me is not a big deal, especially being primary care.

what counts then is quality of life for your family and you, and quality of your clinic. In the USAF these 2 items were less than zero.

service to your country is great and nobel, but the USAF needs to provide you a reasonable quality clinic and life if they are to keep docs in, especially docs committed to excellence and to continueing to be clinic docs (not escaping to admin).

most all docs are hard workers and committed people; thats how we got to this point in our lives. The USAF does itself, it's people, and our patients a huse disservice by in reality "forcing" docs to choose a non military career.

 

[Croooz]

Moose,
So are you not taking the HPSP or are you? I'm a bit confused which you're doing. BTW, I very much doubt I will go into primary care.

USAFdoc,
While the top 10% tax bracket is all well and good.......if I go back in I would retire at around 52-55 at O4 possibly O5 with 20+ years....roughly $40k/year in today's dollars. So when I would get out money would be less of a distraction. See as it would stand now I would be 41 with ~$300k in med school debt and at say 55 I would be at what....? Or I could be 41 with no debt, a salary and 10 years away from $40k/year for life......not to mention the optempo I would have to look forward to.....

 

[USAFdoc]

Moose,
So are you not taking the HPSP or are you? I'm a bit confused which you're doing. BTW, I very much doubt I will go into primary care.

USAFdoc,
While the top 10% tax bracket is all well and good.......if I go back in I would retire at around 52-55 at O4 possibly O5 with 20+ years....roughly $40k/year in today's dollars. So when I would get out money would be less of a distraction. See as it would stand now I would be 41 with ~$300k in med school debt and at say 55 I would be at what....? Or I could be 41 with no debt, a salary and 10 years away from $40k/year for life......not to mention the optempo I would have to look forward to.....

either way you are well off financially. If I worked as many hours now as I did in the USAF, I would be making 200-300 K a year. As is I make 120 K but I am only working 160 hr a month.

also, I love being a family doc and with the good quality of life I now have for me and my family, I will continue to serve and work till I'm old and gray.

 

[Sguidly]

I am new to this forum but had to weigh in on the topic. I too had to make the hard decision between going HPSP or taking out the loans. I have 7 years of prior enlisted service and knew what the Navy was all about, but at the age of 31 with a child and a husband I decided to go back in and joined the HPSP program. I realized that I didn't want a huge debt looming over my head when I finished my training. I also looked at the reason I got out of the Navy in the first place. I was not happy in my current position and had to look closely at whether I was unhappy with the Navy or being enlisted. I realize that I love the military, the travel involved, the people that you meet and the structure and discipline but was not happy being enlisted. So before you decide, think hard about what the service meant to you and whether you can deal with the negatives involved. Good luck in your decision!

 

[kenya]

Croooz's situation really caught my eye as it seems very similar. I'll be rotating into a shore tour shortly where I plan on completing my prereqs and applying. I originally looked at my big choice as essentially b/w USUHS or HPSP and finish out my 20 (will have 10 at EOS and by time I go to school).

However, after learning a lot from this forum, I'm now leaning towards state school and residency as civi at my expense (with loan) and making my choice to rejoin later, maybe FAP. When I look at the relatively moderate costs of schools in my state of residency, I just don't know if it's worth locking myself into something at a point in which I'll still be somewhat ignorant of options, professional atmosphere, future personal desires, etc.

I have enjoyed my time in the navy, and plan on retiring in medical corps, but I just wonder if there is a better way to do it if I can afford it. From the little I've read, it seems like the FAP route may preserve my options and allow me a better negotiating position when I rejoin for how I intend to spend my remaining time in the navy.

Any info or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[MoosePilot]

Moose,
So are you not taking the HPSP or are you? I'm a bit confused which you're doing. BTW, I very much doubt I will go into primary care.

Ah, I'm probably being confusing because I don't know, yet

A lot depends on the application cycle I'm in right now. I'm applying to the usual suspects and getting some interest, but there's a lot still in the air.

For me, my progress towards retirement is a big incentive. I also feel I haven't done quite everything in the military that I wanted to. We'll see, but I'm leaning towards extending my committment by letting the military sponsor my medical education through HPSP or USUHS.

 

[nipdoc]

..... When I look at the relatively moderate costs of schools in my state of residency, I just don't know if it's worth locking myself into something at a point in which I'll still be somewhat ignorant of options, professional atmosphere, future personal desires, etc.

.....

I agree with Kenya and other posters. I was 12 yrs prior (enlisted) and debated the same issues (ie, pay, lifestyle, retirement, etc...). I figured I can either waste 8 more yrs of my life to be assured my $20K/yr or so "retirement". Or, I can go to a civ sch, pay my way and earn civilian dollars as quickly as possible. I decided on EARNING my retirement vice waiting for my meager "entitlement".

If you look at what civilian drs make ($200K - 500K, depending on specialty), you will notice that the COST of medical school becomes almost negligible. So, you owe $200K - 250K. That's payable for a long period of time. Do the quick math: Say you make $200K the first yr out of your residency. You powerpay your sch loans for $50K/yr. You'd be done in 4 yrs! Going milmed, it will take you up to O-5 to break $100K per yr. A retirement of $40k a yr is really nothing when you figure in all the money you lose out on while in the service.

And I have not even factored in the "freedom" of doing whatever wherever whenever part.

Go civilian and just do reserves for the "lifestyle" (or uniform). Don;t kill yourself for the "free education". Pay for it. It's cheap!

_____________________________________________

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance".

 

[MoosePilot]

I agree with Kenya and other posters. I was 12 yrs prior (enlisted) and debated the same issues (ie, pay, lifestyle, retirement, etc...). I figured I can either waste 8 more yrs of my life to be assured my $20K/yr or so "retirement". Or, I can go to a civ sch, pay my way and earn civilian dollars as quickly as possible. I decided on EARNING my retirement vice waiting for my meager "entitlement".

If you look at what civilian drs make ($200K - 500K, depending on specialty), you will notice that the COST of medical school becomes almost negligible. So, you owe $200K - 250K. That's payable for a long period of time. Do the quick math: Say you make $200K the first yr out of your residency. You powerpay your sch loans for $50K/yr. You'd be done in 4 yrs! Going milmed, it will take you up to O-5 to break $100K per yr. A retirement of $40k a yr is really nothing when you figure in all the money you lose out on while in the service.

And I have not even factored in the "freedom" of doing whatever wherever whenever part.

Go civilian and just do reserves for the "lifestyle" (or uniform). Don;t kill yourself for the "free education". Pay for it. It's cheap!

_____________________________________________

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance".

I ran the numbers the other day and you might be surprised. Let's say you go to USUHS. As a civilian student you're likely to be between 100,000 and 200,000 in the negative, considering tuition and living expenses. At USUHS you'll be roughly 160,000 in the positive column. 3 years of residency as a civilian will net somewhere around 90,000-120,000, where a USUHS grad is going to make more like 180,000. Then the civilian grad starts to make up ground in the next 7 years, depending on specialty. If he makes 200,000 vs. 100,000 for the USUHS grad then he makes 700,000 more in those years, but he was already 320K down, so it's really only 380,000 more over that 10 year period. Then you factor in 40K for the remaining 30 years of your life, which is $1,200,000. So for a military doc who can do the time and retire, it makes sense, because to me it looks like he'll be about 800K ahead.

I welcome corrections, because it has direct impact on me in the near future, but best I can figure it, it won't hurt me too bad financially and the intangibles are really what make the decision for me.

 

[deegs]

I ran the numbers the other day and you might be surprised. Let's say you go to USUHS. As a civilian student you're likely to be between 100,000 and 200,000 in the negative, considering tuition and living expenses. At USUHS you'll be roughly 160,000 in the positive column. 3 years of residency as a civilian will net somewhere around 90,000-120,000, where a USUHS grad is going to make more like 180,000. Then the civilian grad starts to make up ground in the next 7 years, depending on specialty. If he makes 200,000 vs. 100,000 for the USUHS grad then he makes 700,000 more in those years, but he was already 320K down, so it's really only 380,000 more over that 10 year period. Then you factor in 40K for the remaining 30 years of your life, which is $1,200,000. So for a military doc who can do the time and retire, it makes sense, because to me it looks like he'll be about 800K ahead.

I did the same thing when deciding between USUHS and a civilian school. You can't really compare future dollars and present dollars (a dollar today is worth more tomorrow), but the overall concept is valid and the conclusion is the same. I did a little more detail (discounted future cash flows to present values, added in interest rates, used pay tables and school tuition tables, etc), but in the end I came out with the same result: because you earn more in the near-term (med school and residency), pay differences in the long term don't really matter. PM me if you want the spreadsheet.

 

[Croooz]

Does your spreadsheet take into account time away from wife and kids? What about friends dying during training and for other reasons?

 

[deegs]

Does your spreadsheet take into account time away from wife and kids? What about friends dying during training and for other reasons?

A very important point. I usually use a caveat on anything to do with military pay. But if you have already considered all the intangibles, it is reassuring to know that you won't send your family into the poor house with this decision. There is often the perception among miltary professionals (docs, lawyers, engineers, etc) that the military ain't paying them squat. Turns out in this case that it is comparable, at least for a prior service officer.

btw - In my 10 years in uniform, I've seen more military members die due to suicide than in training accidents. i'm definitely not saying that the military is a bed of roses.....

 

[Croooz]

btw - In my 10 years in uniform, I've seen more military members die due to suicide than in training accidents. i'm definitely not saying that the military is a bed of roses.....

In my 10 years I've had more friends die due to "training" and "in the performance of their duties" than to suicide. Only 1 due to suicide but it was actually ruled a sexual crime.....strangulated himself while choking the chicken..... 😳 but I get where you're getting at. As a physician I don't expect to have the same HS/LD friends.

 

[dpill]

Croooz,
I was in a similar situation- 10+ yrs active duty (Air Force). I chose the HPSP route. A 4 yr commitment seems manageable- and I want to keep all of my options open in case my military residency options don’t look good. Best case I figure out what I want to do for a medical career and match to that in the military: residency plus payback= just about 20 yrs for me. Worse case, no luck on the military residency and I pay my time back as a flight doc and do the residency of my choosing after- I have several friends that have done that. I would definitely be willing to walk away at 17 if my active duty life is terrible (and finish with the Reserves/ ANG- HPSP counts toward good reserve years). USHUS has better benefits in school, but in my opinion the big negatives are the LONG commitment (which would put me past 20 and leave me feeling hopeless if my life is as bad as some of the SDN posters), not to mention I would be reminded every day that the military made me an 01 again (I was a Major when I resigned my line commission)- now I am a civilian except my one 45 day active duty stint a year and I am fine with that. Pluses for HPSP- I was able to choose the most expensive school in the location my husband and I wanted to live- GWU in DC, and my tuition is covered. My husband and I have a very good standard of living right now (stipend+ GI+ husband income), even with the high cost of living here. We aren’t struggling to make ends meet like lots of my classmates and that was important to us (definitely couldn’t live in DC without the scholarship). The fact we won't have med school debt when I graduate was a BIG consideration (esp. at this point in our lives). I don’t like being away from my family either, and AF deployments are much more frequent now- but they still seem considerably more manageable than the other services. So to me the four year commitment is worth what I am getting (I had an 8 yr commitment for pilot training). If I am happy, I will retire from AD, if I am not- I will go back into the Reserves and finish up on my terms. I spent the last 3 years in the Reserves and my experience was great! All the benefits without the BS.

My advice: make sure the scholarship is worth it for you and your family. If you really can’t stand the thought of more deployments, then you are likely to be very unhappy going back in. In the last 13 yrs I have had my share of bad times, but I haven’t been miserable like some of the people posting on this site. Most of my bad experiences were leadership related, and fortunately commanders don’t stick around forever. I had some great commanders along the way as well- and they had a lot to do with my decision to take the scholarship. Bottom line: I wouldn’t do it for the money if you think you will be miserable.

BTW, I had to get an age waiver to be accepted into the AF HPSP program (35 is allegedly the cut off and I was 36); the whole thing was a real hassle (I had to call the Air Staff at the Pentagon myself to make it happen). I can give you more info if you need it.
Good luck
~M

 

[island doc]

Where and when did you go to UPT? I was at Laughlin, class 88-01.

 

[dpill]

Where and when did you go to UPT? I was at Laughlin, class 88-01.

I was also at lovely Laughlin- 94-03. Fortunately that was my worst assigment 🙂

 

[MoosePilot]

Weird. I wouldn't have pegged you as a pilot, Island doc. I don't think you've mentioned it before, have you?

Vance 98-15, here. Graduated in Oct of 98, so I've got just under a year of committment left. I feel really bad for the 10 year folks that are coming out now.

I'd say UPT is the middle of my three assignments. Being a FAIP was better, but mobility during OIF/OEF has been worse.

 

[island doc]

Weird. I wouldn't have pegged you as a pilot, Island doc. I don't think you've mentioned it before, have you?

Vance 98-15, here. Graduated in Oct of 98, so I've got just under a year of committment left. I feel really bad for the 10 year folks that are coming out now.

I'd say UPT is the middle of my three assignments. Being a FAIP was better, but mobility during OIF/OEF has been worse.

Nope, haven't mentioned it before.

Speaking of a tough time with OIF, one of the guys in our group is a reservist who has been away from his practice for a year now. His family has suffered so much financially that during our last monthly staff meeting, they were soliciting donations for them. 😱

 

[MoosePilot]

Nope, haven't mentioned it before.

Speaking of a tough time with OIF, one of the guys in our group is a reservist who has been away from his practice for a year now. His family has suffered so much financially that during our last monthly staff meeting, they were soliciting donations for them. 😱

Suffered that much? Living on a 250K lifestyle and suddenly only has 120K to pay for it? I don't understand. I was only a teenager during Desert Storm, but the media hit that story to the extent that I was tired of it at the time. You go into the reserves, you risk being activated. It's not free money, it's gambling on whether you'll be activated or not.

 

[island doc]

I was also at lovely Laughlin- 94-03. Fortunately that was my worst assigment 🙂

I don't know how Del Rio was when you were there, but it was something of a pit when I was there.

 

[island doc]

Suffered that much? Living on a 250K lifestyle and suddenly only has 120K to pay for it? I don't understand. I was only a teenager during Desert Storm, but the media hit that story to the extent that I was tired of it at the time. You go into the reserves, you risk being activated. It's not free money, it's gambling on whether you'll be activated or not.

I don't know for sure how much he was taking home before he left, but my guess is in the $200K-250K range considering the very affluent area in which we live. So, suddenly dropping to an 0-4 or even 0-5 paygrade would be a big hit. I was not willing to take that risk.