Prioritize SLOEs or Step 2?

[asdf1192]

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[ILikeCrayons]

I would prioritize SLOE's with a fine Step 1. A lot of programs didn't mention step 2 and won't need it until Rank time. I only tell people to prioritize Step 2 if your step 1 is low.

 

[asdf1192]

I would prioritize SLOE's with a fine Step 1. A lot of programs didn't mention step 2 and won't need it until Rank time. I only tell people to prioritize Step 2 if your step 1 is low.

Thanks for confirming my hunch. I got worried after hearing multiple people say that EM values step 2 more than other fields. It sounds like you're applying this year, hope all goes well.

 

[racerwad]

I'm an M3 with decent boards (245) and poor clinical grades (all Ps so far due to terrible shelf scores). Because of our school's curriculum setup, I have to choose between doing away rotations or studying for step 2. Right now I'm betting on obtaining two SLOEs in time, then sending a delayed step 2 score around mid-October. Is that the smart thing to do, or should I take step 2 earlier given my poor clinical grades?

Your Step 1 is good and SLOEs are important, but you can't just ignore Step 2. Just don't go backwards.

 

[SasquatchEM]

Focus on getting great SLOEs. Your step 1 will be enough score wise.

 

[Petypet]

I would prioritize SLOE's with a fine Step 1. A lot of programs didn't mention step 2 and won't need it until Rank time. I only tell people to prioritize Step 2 if your step 1 is low.

I agree with this but also keep in mind some places issued interviews first to people that had complete applications. N = 2, I had 2 places tell me, no step 2, no interview (paraphrasing). Its only Feb, the OP has plenty of time to do well at both.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Good SLOEs are infinitely more important than a single board score from my standpoint. This is one person/programs opinion, take it for what thats worth. But if a student has excellent sloes and poor boards, Id rank them way above anyone with standout board scores and bad sloes. Afterall, your trying to find good em docs in the match, not professional test takers.

 

[asdf1192]

I agree with this but also keep in mind some places issued interviews first to people that had complete applications. N = 2, I had 2 places tell me, no step 2, no interview (paraphrasing). Its only Feb, the OP has plenty of time to do well at both.

Thanks for the input. Do you mind sharing what those 2 places were?

You're right that I have enough time to do both, but I don't think I can do both well. Especially the step 2 without extra studying time, given my poor shelf knowledge.

 

[Petypet]

Thanks for the input. Do you mind sharing what those 2 places were?

You're right that I have enough time to do both, but I don't think I can do both well. Especially the step 2 without extra studying time, given my poor shelf knowledge.

You don't need to study to get a good sloe also. Show up and work hard, be proactive, and the letter will sort itself out.

 

[TBoneKoko]

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[racerwad]

Good SLOEs are infinitely more important than a single board score from my standpoint. This is one person/programs opinion, take it for what thats worth. But if a student has excellent sloes and poor boards, Id rank them way above anyone with standout board scores and bad sloes. Afterall, your trying to find good em docs in the match, not professional test takers.

I know things vary between programs but I don't think it's good advice to tell anyone to prioritize one over another. Students have to do well on both.

A 245 on Step 1 tells me that they can test well. A good SLOE shouldn't really take any "work" at all - all anyone needs to do (at least here) is work hard, be enthusiastic, and be teachable. Anecdotally, most people find Step 2 easier. Studying for it while rotating shouldn't be too difficult since you'll be reinforcing the things you learn while on shift.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I know things vary between programs but I don't think it's good advice to tell anyone to prioritize one over another. Students have to do well on both.

A 245 on Step 1 tells me that they can test well. A good SLOE shouldn't really take any "work" at all - all anyone needs to do (at least here) is work hard, be enthusiastic, and be teachable. Anecdotally, most people find Step 2 easier. Studying for it while rotating shouldn't be too difficult since you'll be reinforcing the things you learn while on shift.

Sure, I agree. Do well on both. But in the end, its no secret that good sloes will trump good board scores on the interview trail. If you have a "lower 1/3" sloe, its the kiss of death no matter what your board scores are. Conversely, a top 10% sloe from a good program will open some eyes despite average board scores.

So sure, its best to do well on both. But that wasnt the question asked. The question was which was more important. And in that case, clinical performance wins out everytime, as it should.

 

[racerwad]

Sure, I agree. Do well on both. But in the end, its no secret that good sloes will trump good board scores on the interview trail. If you have a "lower 1/3" sloe, its the kiss of death no matter what your board scores are. Conversely, a top 10% sloe from a good program will open some eyes despite average board scores.

So sure, its best to do well on both. But that wasnt the question asked. The question was which was more important. And in that case, clinical performance wins out everytime, as it should.

Sure, a lower 1/3rd SLOE is bad, but so would a Step score in the same percentile. My point was that it is (or ought to be) easier to obtain a good SLOE than to get a similarly good board score and to invest time accordingly.

I think the sweet spot is to have average scores on the Steps and to have amazing SLOEs.

Anecdotally, I did think it was neat to see high board scores from a statistical curiosity point of view, but I was always more interested in what the content of the SLOE was. Conversely, I never worried about recommending an app to move forward if the scores were averagish as long as they had good SLOEs.

I just don't want someone to read this and think that below national avg boards but great SLOEs will work, because that may just cause them to get screened out at the start of the process. Great SLOEs and boards within an SD - that will make you golden (n=1).

 

[Psai]

When you guys rank people with SLOEs, is it based on the people who are interested in em or is it against all medical students? I'm assuming it's the former but I was curious. Also, how bad is it for the lower 1/3? On charting the outcomes it looks like 82% who apply match overall and 93% of us seniors match

 

[Petypet]

Focus on SLOE's first and foremost.

How?

 

[racerwad]

When you guys rank people with SLOEs, is it based on the people who are interested in em or is it against all medical students? I'm assuming it's the former but I was curious. Also, how bad is it for the lower 1/3? On charting the outcomes it looks like 82% who apply match overall and 93% of us seniors match

It is compared to students interested in EM. Lower 1/3 is abd but obviously many of those students still match. Even more important that what region they are ranked in are the comments in the SLOE and the competiveness of the program overall. It will be difficult to rank highly in overall in more competitive programs, but you can still be a really good candidate.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Sorry if this is redundant/unrelated, but our advisers are... trying. I have a high step 1 (258) and finish on internal medicine. I have 1 SLOE lined up from my 3rd year elective. Do I take step 2 in July and then do AIs in Aug/Sept/Oct, or AIs in Jul/Aug/Sept and Step 2 in October? I can't get a straight honest answer out of people at my school beyond "take step 2 ASAP!!!"

 

[Petypet]

"take step 2 ASAP!!!"

I would agree with this.

 

[racerwad]

I would agree with this.

Agreed. Just get the dang thing over with. For most, it is "easier" than Step 1, and much of the studying you'll be doing for it will be relevant on rotations. You'll be fine taking it (and PE) earlier and getting them off your plate. My n=1 experience is that getting those tests done early helps to make the rest of 4th year awesome. Good luck!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Sorry if this is redundant/unrelated, but our advisers are... trying. I have a high step 1 (258) and finish on internal medicine. I have 1 SLOE lined up from my 3rd year elective. Do I take step 2 in July and then do AIs in Aug/Sept/Oct, or AIs in Jul/Aug/Sept and Step 2 in October? I can't get a straight honest answer out of people at my school beyond "take step 2 ASAP!!!"

I think either would be ok, but the ideal schedule would be to take step 2 immediately after year 3 (when all those core rotations of surgery, peds, fp, ob/gyn, medicine, etc) are still on your mind. Then you can focus entirely on crushing your AIs. But if for some reason you don't get your perfect schedule, relax. Being an ED doc means you have to be flexible, you have to basically give up being able to control basically just about everything. So if you don't get a perfect schedule, adapt. You'll be doing it for the rest of your career anyways.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

The committee of residency program directors placed a value of importance on parts of your application 1-5. The sloes where the highest on the importance ~4.8 where as step 2 was ~4.4/4.5. Get solid sloes and than take step 2. Your step 1 will not close most of not all doors!!

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

I would agree with this.

Agreed. Just get the dang thing over with. For most, it is "easier" than Step 1, and much of the studying you'll be doing for it will be relevant on rotations. You'll be fine taking it (and PE) earlier and getting them off your plate. My n=1 experience is that getting those tests done early helps to make the rest of 4th year awesome. Good luck!

I think either would be ok, but the ideal schedule would be to take step 2 immediately after year 3 (when all those core rotations of surgery, peds, fp, ob/gyn, medicine, etc) are still on your mind. Then you can focus entirely on crushing your AIs. But if for some reason you don't get your perfect schedule, relax. Being an ED doc means you have to be flexible, you have to basically give up being able to control basically just about everything. So if you don't get a perfect schedule, adapt. You'll be doing it for the rest of your career anyways.

Thanks for the advice. After a talk from our EM PD I'm going to go with a July Step 2. It was a good point about getting that off my plate before AIs. Now on to getting VSAS figured out... haha