Problem based learning & Dogma

[FSD4784]

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Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?
At my university we are free to comment on the quality of the eduction.
We are allowed to suggest a lecture on a certain topic, or suggest a different format for a certain topic
(for example one of my classmates suggested to faculty that one lecture would be better as a lab, as it would be more interactive and better suited for the topic at hand).

But! When it comes to PBL there is NO DISCUSSION WHAT SO EVER between staff and students.
We have weekly meetings with faculty and NEVER do they ask what we think about PBL, how it can
be improved etc. Is this normal??

How did PBL get this status? It's like some sort of freakin' religion. In a university. ;-O
I feel very concerned. Are we students supposed to think that we here this year 2014 have stumbled upon the ultimate pedagogical method and that there is no room for improvement whatsoever?

Anyone else who've experienced this dogmatic view of PBL at their university?

 

[Porfirio]

PBL and TBL = Mandated down from the LCME Gods. <--- Useless suggestion to a program that is already doing just fine - just so they can justify the site visit, keep their job/title, and bring in $$$

For whatever reason they believe it is a form of "self-directed learning." I just wish they included the hours I spend outside of class reviewing lecture notes/Wikipedia/Pathoma/DIT/FA/Google/Anatomy Lab/preparing for Histology Lab as "self-directed learning."

If you are ever called to donate money to your old medical school - make sure your money only goes toward scholarships. We just had alumni donate >$1 million to build a room designed for TBL. Talk about a waste of money...

 

[GadRads]

80% of PBL at my school is just a waste. I don't know who at the LCME thought memorizing vast amounts of information is a group effort.

 

[Laryngophed]

 

[evilbooyaa]

Yeah, seems like most people are not a fan of PBL. I don't know why they don't make it optional. Luckily I picked the lecture 'track' at my school for the pre-clinical years (rather than the group based learning with less lecture).

 

[lunalight]

At first I absolutely hated PBL, but its a lot different now that my group members and I know more. I actually really like it. I'm all about self-directed learning, I didn't even make it a week in live lecture! But our PBLs really help "fit all of the pieces together." I almost never need to go back and review anything we cover in there before the exam.

 

[WaylonS]

Part of the issue I had with PBLs was the variability: if one was well designed, it was a great learning tool, and if it wasn't, well, it was a complete waste of time.

 

[crimsonkid85]

PBL in the clinical years really is a complete waste of time. On the other hand, learning on the wards is essentially one nonstop clusterfk of PBLs....so eh, I don't feel strongly about it, either way.

 

[GadRads]

It is not that the PBL idea is inherently bad. The idea itself is sound, but the execution of a good PBL requires good strategy with a good facilitator, and that is where most PBLs fail. I have had a few worthwhile PBLs, but going 1 for 5 isn't at all fantastic.

 

[Frazier]

It's really hit or miss.

Depends on the class, subject to be covered, facilitator, and peers.

 

[notbobtrustme]

If it's a small amount of PBL, then that's fine. I find the PBL sessions in M2 to be very helpful, but we only have 1-2 hours per block. This is the perfect amount, plus all PBL sessions are moderated by M4s, which helps to keep the discussions on task.

 

[Kahreek]

If you like dogma you'll love medicine.

 

[CodeRedDew]

PBL in the clinical years really is a complete waste of time. On the other hand, learning on the wards is essentially one nonstop clusterfk of PBLs....so eh, I don't feel strongly about it, either way.

By that time we'll (hopefully) have an idea of what the DD is or at least have something in mind. Right now, as an M1, if you have no type of background in healthcare (EMT, nurse, etc.) then PBL is practically useless as it's just a bunch of mindless students who have no clue what's relevant to clinical medicine shouting out random non-sense. Well at least the way that it's done at my school.

 

[ulikedaggers]

We are going to start having PBL sessions during the clinical years.. As if rounding on patients, getting pimped, going to conferences, and presenting stuff isn't "active learning".

 

[DermViser]

PBL and TBL = Mandated down from the LCME Gods. <--- Useless suggestion to a program that is already doing just fine - just so they can justify the site visit, keep their job/title, and bring in $$$

For whatever reason they believe it is a form of "self-directed learning." I just wish they included the hours I spend outside of class reviewing lecture notes/Wikipedia/Pathoma/DIT/FA/Google/Anatomy Lab/preparing for Histology Lab as "self-directed learning."

If you are ever called to donate money to your old medical school - make sure your money only goes toward scholarships. We just had alumni donate >$1 million to build a room designed for TBL. Talk about a waste of money...

WOW. What a complete waste. What's even worse is that alumni actively donated to this BS without talking with students first.

 

[FSD4784]

Please people, stay OT. The topic is not if pbl is good or bad -there are already countless threads on that - but if pbl has become dogmatic or not and if you see the same thing that I described where we are encouraged to question things but pbl is somehow a sacred cow and you are not allowed to question or even discuss its merits and drawbacks.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Please people, stay OT. The topic is not if pbl is good or bad -there are already countless threads on that - but if pbl has become dogmatic or not and if you see the same thing that I described where we are encouraged to question things but pbl is somehow a sacred cow and you are not allowed to question or even discuss its merits and drawbacks.

Well, to answer your question, we gave feedback on our PBL sessions in pre-clinical years. We didn't have em that often so most of the eval was BS so I could go home and take a nap.