Problem

[mua78]

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Hi,

I am new to this site, and have been reading a lot about institutional actions and all. So here goes my story:
I was taking a class (some bio (online)), and one of teh questions was define species. It was a timed test so the first thing that popped into my mind was the definition of species from introductory bio and I noted that down.
APparently there were other people in the class that had the same issue. SO the prof. did a google search and the first thing that popped up was the definition of species from introductory bio. Although I had used standard bio words which wikepedia also used, but I had nowhere the same definition that Wikepedia or google had.
The prof. just wouldnt budge from her point that I had infact just quoted an introductory bio definition and the worst thing possible is give me a zero for that question.
Instead she recommended me to the dean.

Now this school where I took the post bac class is really small, and I havent heard back from the dean or his staff after the initial meeting for about 6-7 months now. I have gone in once to talk to him, and apparently they cant seem to find a committee to oversight the hearing.
So I was talking to the dean's secretary, and he assured me that I have only an I in the course, and there wouldnt be anything in my file until the whole appeal process is over.



MY QUESTION: is the above mentioned series of event considered institutional action, or is it institutional action once the dean or the committee decides on it. And whether I should mention it on my application. I am no where near a spectacular candidate- c-3.2, s-3.3, MCAT 29. I just dont want Adcoms to be thrown off by something that is infact not decided as a fact as of now.

However once the decision is reached by the school, I would mail all the schools both MD and DO with the update in the first possible chance I get.

Thanks for the help in advance, and sorry for the long post.

 

[WorldChanger36]

Hi,

I am new to this site, and have been reading a lot about institutional actions and all. So here goes my story:
I was taking a class (some bio (online)), and one of teh questions was define species. It was a timed test so the first thing that popped into my mind was the definition of species from introductory bio and I noted that down.
APparently there were other people in the class that had the same issue. SO the prof. did a google search and the first thing that popped up was the definition of species from introductory bio. Although I had used standard bio words which wikepedia also used, but I had nowhere the same definition that Wikepedia or google had.
The prof. just wouldnt budge from her point that I had infact just quoted an introductory bio definition and the worst thing possible is give me a zero for that question.
Instead she recommended me to the dean.

Now this school where I took the post bac class is really small, and I havent heard back from the dean or his staff after the initial meeting for about 6-7 months now. I have gone in once to talk to him, and apparently they cant seem to find a committee to oversight the hearing.
So I was talking to the dean's secretary, and he assured me that I have only an I in the course, and there wouldnt be anything in my file until the whole appeal process is over.



MY QUESTION: is the above mentioned series of event considered institutional action, or is it institutional action once the dean or the committee decides on it. And whether I should mention it on my application. I am no where near a spectacular candidate- c-3.2, s-3.3, MCAT 29. I just dont want Adcoms to be thrown off by something that is infact not decided as a fact as of now.

However once the decision is reached by the school, I would mail all the schools both MD and DO with the update in the first possible chance I get.

Thanks for the help in advance, and sorry for the long post.

You Trollin'? If not why you not use the search tool?
:troll:

 

[mua78]

You Trollin'? If not why you not use the search tool?
:troll:

not trollin, just seriously concerned. I have spent a good hour or so looking for a similar situation. In all cases the people had in fact been told by their respective schools that they were at fault.
I however have a pending case. I am just concerned about that.

 

[theseeker4]

Is the professor accusing you of cheating? If your answer wasn't word-for-word the Wikipedia definition, on what grounds would she be accusing you of cheating?

 

[mua78]

Is the professor accusing you of cheating? If your answer wasn't word-for-word the Wikipedia definition, on what grounds would she be accusing you of cheating?

That's the whole issue I am having. It was an online exam and she says that I MIGHT have checked online dUring the exam.

This is the first of its kind for me, for my other pre me friends and frankly I couldn't find anything on google or Sdn that was similar to my situation!


I am just concerned if is it something that needs to be reported to amca and aacomas under institutional action, since it hasn't concluded and most probably will hopefully get over turned. in my talk with the secretary, he seemed rather surprised at my file!

 

[WorldChanger36]

That's the whole issue I am having. It was an online exam and she says that I MIGHT have checked online dUring the exam.

This is the first of its kind for me, for my other pre me friends and frankly I couldn't find anything on google or Sdn that was similar to my situation!


I am just concerned if is it something that needs to be reported to amca and aacomas under institutional action, since it hasn't concluded and most probably will hopefully get over turned. in my talk with the secretary, he seemed rather surprised at my file!

Well the professor has the burden of proof. If it is word for word you are hosed, if not go to the dean or department chair and complain. You know if you cheated or not.

 

[mua78]

Well the professor has the burden of proof. If it is word for word you are hosed, if not go to the dean or department chair and complain. You know if you cheated or not.

Hi,

The prof was giving me an F, to which I appealed and she recommended me to the dean's office. I have had an initial meeting with the Sean last December, and haven't heard back from him. Last week or the one before that I went to his office and he was On a vacation. it was then I talked to his secretary.


I am just wondering if as of now it is considered institutional action or not. I know there are some Adcom members on this forum, and would really appreciate their feedback as well.!!!

Thanks

 

[mua78]

Well the professor has the burden of proof. If it is word for word you are hosed, if not go to the dean or department chair and complain. You know if you cheated or not.

And it's not word for word, I had 2-3 similar words from Wikipedia that are also present in any introductory biology books.

I think I should find her report to the dean and paste it here!

 

[theseeker4]

Well the professor has the burden of proof. If it is word for word you are hosed, if not go to the dean or department chair and complain. You know if you cheated or not.

Agree with this, but the only problem is when professors are automatically believed over students by administration. Admins could care less of a particular student is f-ed over, while they care very much about retaining professors who bring in good grant money to the school.

OP, don't know what to do other than explain exactly what happened, discuss the case in person with the prof to see if she will drop it (she really shouldn't be doing anything if her claim is you MIGHT have checked...) but make sure you are not argumentative AT ALL when you talk to her, and move on to the dean if you have no progress with her. Worst case, ask if you can re-take the exam or drop the whole class to keep an IA off your record, as an IA for academic dishonesty basically kills your chances... Good luck.

 

[mua78]

Agree with this, but the only problem is when professors are automatically believed over students by administration. Admins could care less of a particular student is f-ed over, while they care very much about retaining professors who bring in good grant money to the school.

OP, don't know what to do other than explain exactly what happened, discuss the case in person with the prof to see if she will drop it (she really shouldn't be doing anything if her claim is you MIGHT have checked...) but make sure you are not argumentative AT ALL when you talk to her, and move on to the dean if you have no progress with her. Worst case, ask if you can re-take the exam or drop the whole class to keep an IA off your record, as an IA for academic dishonesty basically kills your chances... Good luck.

Buddy I tried all that. I talked to her, explained her te situation but the prof wouldn't budge. Just another connecting story, while the last time I was in her office discussing this issue, she started quoting bible about cheating and how one would pay for sins and all. Then she said that I just don't belong in a med profession and all that.
I had actually abused my MCAT taking at the stry d the semester though. I would email her again and again that how important the mcat was ad all that. Needless to say she didn't give me an extension on any assignment! Also she is a foreign MD prof I think.

Oh and while in the meeting she accused me of recording the meeting through a phone. I wa just dumbfounded and I may have just gotten so angry after bible quoting and then this claim that I got up said goodbye and left Immidiately.



Again my question remains the committee hasn't decide on this an I don't think that they will do so ker the summer or good part d next semster.
Should I mention this in the IA Section or not? Is it an IA considering if I cheated ( which I didn't) but there has been no action or te action is yet to be decided!

Thanks

 

[mua78]

Agree with this, but the only problem is when professors are automatically believed over students by administration. Admins could care less of a particular student is f-ed over, while they care very much about retaining professors who bring in good grant money to the school.

OP, don't know what to do other than explain exactly what happened, discuss the case in person with the prof to see if she will drop it (she really shouldn't be doing anything if her claim is you MIGHT have checked...) but make sure you are not argumentative AT ALL when you talk to her, and move on to the dean if you have no progress with her. Worst case, ask if you can re-take the exam or drop the whole class to keep an IA off your record, as an IA for academic dishonesty basically kills your chances... Good luck.

She had it somewhere in the syllabus that no outside source could be used during an exam. I think google is outside! 🙂

 

[theseeker4]

Buddy I tried all that. I talked to her, explained her te situation but the prof wouldn't budge. Just another connecting story, while the last time I was in her office discussing this issue, she started quoting bible about cheating and how one would pay for sins and all. Then she said that I just don't belong in a med profession and all that.
I had actually abused my MCAT taking at the stry d the semester though. I would email her again and again that how important the mcat was ad all that. Needless to say she didn't give me an extension on any assignment! Also she is a foreign MD prof I think.

Oh and while in the meeting she accused me of recording the meeting through a phone. I wa just dumbfounded and I may have just gotten so angry after bible quoting and then this claim that I got up said goodbye and left Immidiately.

Again my question remains the committee hasn't decide on this an I don't think that they will do so ker the summer or good part d next semster.
Should I mention this in the IA Section or not? Is it an IA considering if I cheated ( which I didn't) but there has been no action or te action is yet to be decided!

Thanks

It wasn't clear what you had or had not tried when I posted, sorry for suggesting something you already did.

At this point, call schools you want to apply to and explain the situation to them (anonymously) and see what they say about whether this is an IA you need to report at this point. That and following up with the the Dean are your only options unless the whole thing was dropped without your knowledge. Good luck.

 

[WorldChanger36]

Agree with this, but the only problem is when professors are automatically believed over students by administration. Admins could care less of a particular student is f-ed over, while they care very much about retaining professors who bring in good grant money to the school.

OP, don't know what to do other than explain exactly what happened, discuss the case in person with the prof to see if she will drop it (she really shouldn't be doing anything if her claim is you MIGHT have checked...) but make sure you are not argumentative AT ALL when you talk to her, and move on to the dean if you have no progress with her. Worst case, ask if you can re-take the exam or drop the whole class to keep an IA off your record, as an IA for academic dishonesty basically kills your chances... Good luck.

Authority is power. It sucks but you do what you can and when you get screwed you try to fix what you can.


OP, if you were failed due to cheating then Yes that is an IA against you and you must report it but only if the professor filed all the proper paperwork that makes it an IA. You see if the professor just failed you and did not file an IA report against you then there is no way to tell you were failed because you cheated vs you were failed because you didn't go to class. If you pursue this with the dean and they conclued you cheated the dean may file an IA against you and have you put on probation, suspended or kicked out of the school. IAs are always followed by some form of administrative punishment of some kind. If you are on probation then it is an IA and you have to report it. There are ways to still get into medical school with an IA.... Prove you learned from your mistake and take ownership of it.... this takes time .... years often.

 

[mua78]

Authority is power. It sucks but you do what you can and when you get screwed you try to fix what you can.


OP, if you were failed due to cheating then Yes that is an IA against you and you must report it but only if the professor filed all the proper paperwork that makes it an IA. You see if the professor just failed you and did not file an IA report against you then there is no way to tell you were failed because you cheated vs you were failed because you didn't go to class. If you pursue this with the dean and they conclued you cheated the dean may file an IA against you and have you put on probation, suspended or kicked out of the school. IAs are always followed by some form of administrative punishment of some kind. If you are on probation then it is an IA and you have to report it. There are ways to still get into medical school with an IA.... Prove you learned from your mistake and take ownership of it.... this takes time .... years often.

Do you think I should go back to te prof. And ask her to give me an F and take the complaint back? I'll do that if it helps my case in the long run. Or I could take risk and see how this committee thing works out! But a of now, the institution has yet to take action on it. It's surprising that it ha taken so long since the school is really not that big!


Also I don't Have a Premed committee. Does anyone have any idea as to how med schools get the IA THING if it is not reported.

 

[WorldChanger36]

Do you think I should go back to te prof. And ask her to give me an F and take the complaint back? I'll do that if it helps my case in the long run. Or I could take risk and see how this committee thing works out! But a of now, the institution has yet to take action on it. It's surprising that it ha taken so long since the school is really not that big!


Also I don't Have a Premed committee. Does anyone have any idea as to how med schools get the IA THING if it is not reported.

No, unless you did cheat and you know they can prove it otherwise fight. Just keep in mind sometime when you fight you lose regardless of how just your cause is but if you don't fight you have already lost.

IAs appear on your transcript in someway or another.

If you did cheat own up to it, if not fight until you win.
That is all I am going to say on this.

 

[mua78]

No, unless you did cheat and you know they can prove it otherwise fight. Just keep in mind sometime when you fight you lose regardless of how just your cause is but if you don't fight you have already lost.

IAs appear on your transcript in someway or another.

If you did cheat own up to it, if not fight until you win.
That is all I am going to say on this.

I think I have a strong case, and that is the reason I appealed. Though I realize that there is a chance that I may loose, and in that case I would personally write to each and every school and tell them about the change in my record. However as of now there is nothing on my transcript ( course is listed as incomplete) and therefore I do not want schools to be turned off by it when there is a possibility that it would not stock hopefully in the future!