Problems with dissertation advisor

[psydstudent2020]

Hey guys, I'm feeling pretty helpless about my dissertation situation. I am currently so fixated on applying to internship/traveling but am worried because I proposed in the summer (which is our deadline to be able to apply for internship) and so far this semester have not had ONE dissertation meeting or moved forward with applying to the IRB, data collection, anything. I will definitely be out of state for internship and do not want to have to come back and take an extra year or two to finish dissertation. I've heard of people taking an extra year BEFORE internship if they failed comprehensive exams or a practicum but have never heard of anyone who took an extra year AFTER internship before they could graduate just to finish dissertation. Now, when selecting an advisor, I chose mine because we clicked and he said he had a more unstructured approach and needed a highly motivated/proactive student. Him taking three months or more to edit drafts didn't bother me because I wasn't technically behind, but now I definitely am and feel like this semester was just wasted. Furthermore, I did have problems proposing. First, my proposal was accepted with revisions and I kept reminding him to please hurry and read the revisions, sign, etc. Once he told me that he had to be the one to collect the signatures from everyone I knew I was screwed. He told me not to worry because the deadline was still two weeks away (I knew it would take longer though). I have people in my cohort who actually proposed a week before the deadline, did the edits, and still their advisor got everything submitted in time. A few days prior to the deadline, the program director kept emailing me about the deadline and I told her I couldn't do anything until he did his part. I didn't hear from him and the deadline passed, even though I emailed him multiple times. The DCT contacted me saying my petition for internship was rejected, I had to communicate via email and try to explain what happened and she said I could petition to reject the failed petition in the fall. A month later, my advisor emailed me saying he had a personal manner come up. I was cordial and told him the next step was to submit the signature page. In the fall, he disappeared again and everyone on my committee sent their signature within a day and I still hadn't heard from him. I emailed the dean, DCT, etc. with my signature page and said if someone can find him they can get his signature because I'm not missing internship due to this. Thankfully, they approved my petition. However, this incident shows me this could easily happen again. In order to be proactive, I emailed another committee member asking to have dissertation meetings and they said I should do that with my advisor. I told them "remember what happened this summer, I'm very concerned and also Dr. X told me that he cannot help much with the data collection/statistical analyses because that's not his area of expertise and that was why I selected you for my committee." He hasn't responded, but it looks like I'm screwed because I added this person to my committee for help with the statistics and I know my advisor is clueless on all of that. I also know this will not be defended prior to leaving for internship and if communication is this difficult now, it will only be worse when I'm out of state. Thus, I have several questions for you guys:
1) Should I switch advisors? I was told this can be awkward if rejected...
2) My committee member is clearly too busy to help much. He is also the person I go to if I want to change my advisor. Should I change my approach and ask him to meet regarding POTENTIALLY making changes in my committee?
Overall, I just feel helpless that my advisor cut communication whenever he wants. I have passed every other hoop in this program and never thought dissertation would hold me back. My advisor always joked about how I came to him and started my dissertation on the very first day of my first year.

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[Kadhir]

I'm not sure how you can change advisers once the dissertation has already been proposed. In any case, I hate meetings. 90% of them are largely useless because the goals aren't clear beforehand, and just asking for meetings scares people away. That's not to say you shouldn't be having them, but it would help to clarify for them, and also gives you a leg to stand on if you have to go above them. Can you outline the big ticket items you need direction on and bullet point them in an email? Make clear what you've done, what you've still got to do, and what your timeline is. If you still don't get a response, I would go to the DCT/department head/someone senior to these people for direction.

Also, this situation does suck. Your adviser is not doing his job, and many academic environments unfortunately foster this attitude. Sorry.

 

[deleted343839]

I've heard of people taking an extra year BEFORE internship if they failed comprehensive exams or a practicum but have never heard of anyone who took an extra year AFTER internship before they could graduate just to finish dissertation.

I know a couple of people who went back after internship to finish their dissertations. It's a situation to be avoided but not completely unheard of. Still, I don't know why you're so intent on applying for internship knowing that you are unlikely to complete your dissertation during the internship year. If you have good reason to believe this, you should wait until next year to apply for internship and make sure you get the thing done in the meantime.

I proposed in the summer (which is our deadline to be able to apply for internship) and so far this semester have not had ONE dissertation meeting or moved forward with applying to the IRB, data collection, anything

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but what would be the purpose of a meeting if you haven't made any progress on your study? What has prevented you from applying to the IRB, for instance? This is not your advisor's responsibility.

Now, when selecting an advisor, I chose mine because we clicked and he said he had a more unstructured approach and needed a highly motivated/proactive student.

In order to be proactive, I emailed another committee member asking to have dissertation meetings and they said I should do that with my advisor. I told them "remember what happened this summer, I'm very concerned and also Dr. X told me that he cannot help much with the data collection/statistical analyses because that's not his area of expertise and that was why I selected you for my committee."

Your data collection and statistical analyses are within not his areas of expertise? I don't understand why you chose this person to head your committee.

Should I switch advisors? I was told this can be awkward if rejected...

Maybe. This guy sounds difficult to work with and borderline useless. But is this done in your program? It doesn't seem as though your program follows a typical scientist-practitioner training model. Are you able to talk with any of this advisor's former graduates? When dealing with a difficult advisor tips from someone who's been through the process can be invaluable. If not, perhaps reach out to other faculty you trust. When soliciting advice be direct, but professional, and first make sure you have taken care of all of the responsibilities on your end.

 

[psydstudent2020]

I know a couple of people who went back after internship to finish their dissertations. It's a situation to be avoided but not completely unheard of. Still, I don't know why you're so intent on applying for internship knowing that you are unlikely to complete your dissertation during the internship year. If you have good reason to believe this, you should wait until next year to apply for internship and make sure you get the thing done in the meantime.



Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but what would be the purpose of a meeting if you haven't made any progress on your study? What has prevented you from applying to the IRB, for instance? This is not your advisor's responsibility.





Your data collection and statistical analyses are within not his areas of expertise? I don't understand why you chose this person to head your committee.



Maybe. This guy sounds difficult to work with and borderline useless. But is this done in your program? It doesn't seem as though your program follows a typical scientist-practitioner training model. Are you able to talk with any of this advisor's former graduates? When dealing with a difficult advisor tips from someone who's been through the process can be invaluable. If not, perhaps reach out to other faculty you trust. When soliciting advice be direct, but professional, and first make sure you have taken care of all of the responsibilities on your end.

I cannot apply to the IRB without assistance. It took him and his other student a whole semester to work on it together.

 

[deleted343839]

I cannot apply to the IRB without assistance. It took him and his other student a whole semester to work on it together.

That's... ridiculous. At your stage of training an IRB application should be require no more than a pro forma signature from your advisor to submit to the committee. Everything else, you should be able to do independently at this point (and indeed this is not even an unreasonable expectation of a first year). I'm sorry you are caught up in this situation. But to your original question, I recommend against applying for internship if you don't think you'll be able to at least have your data collected before the academic year is over.

 

[procrastin8r]

I am taking a year post-internship to work on my dissertation. It's unexpected and highly unpleasant, but, ultimately, not the end of the world, or even the end of my career. That said, I do contemplate dropping out and/or changing advisers on a monthly basis (not kidding). The reason I'm still here is that I genuinely still want a career in this field AND it would take longer for me to try to find another adviser and/or make a formal complaint, etc. etc. Just wanted to share that you are not alone in this, and the lack of accountability and imposed structure on advisers unfortunately often lend to these types of situations.

It sounds like you've already done a thorough job in asking for help. I recommend that you keep doing that, and be as persistent, alarmist, and annoying as you have to be - put your career first, because no one else will. Some additional steps you might try:

1. Explain the communication problem to your dept chair, and start cc'ing your chair on all email communications with the adviser
2. Send really long, bulleted, color-coded emails to your adviser, outlining everything that needs to happen re: dissertation, in lieu of waiting for him to schedule a meeting. If he doesn't respond within a week, send follow up emails (keep cc'ing the chair).
3. Ask everyone you can think of for help with IRB, analysis, and anything else you need from the dissertation. It would be hugely unfair for you to not get any assistance from your committee, but if this is the deal you've been given, it might be faster to get through it. So, if need be, send a polite email to all department faculty and current/past students, asking for specific assistance. If anything, it might raise helpful flags in the dept ("How come this student needs help with X analyses, if Dr. Y (an expert in X analyses) is on her committee?").
4. Learn as much as you can about the IRB process and your dissertation analyses. Part of the doctoral level training is that we are expected to look up and teach ourselves pretty much anything related to our field. Just because we can do that, it doesn't mean it's fair for us to be expected to at all times, especially before we finish the doctorate. Nevertheless, we have mad researching and self-teaching skills, so it might be an efficient way for your to go around the lack of assistance from your committee. Google, check out stats books from your university library (or the library closest to your internship site), go to research gate, etc.

Basically, the theme is: academia is made up of highly privileged people, who are prone to the fundamental attribution error. In other words, the university might be biased towards deciding that the delayed dissertation defense (and accompanying difficulties for you) are your fault, rather than your committee's. Accrue as much evidence as you can, in writing, that this is not the case - document, pester, remind, reply all.

And remember, that this will still end with you getting your doctorate, one way or another! Good luck!