Prof volunteered to be a reference BUT...

[baba ganoush]

I was working at a university as a RC for about 6 months. The prof who I was working for had to let me go, however, because the study was being postponed.

Before I left, I wasn't going to ask her to be a reference, but she VOLUNTEERED to be my reference, so I decided to use her as one.

Shortly after I got an interview for another research position (NOT at the same institution). Surprise surprise, the interviewer said there was a discrepancy in my references. 2 were stellar references but not one...She wanted to know my side of the story. The interviewer specifically said s/he didn't say anything bad about me, but I guessed right and it had something to do with the prof's concern that I wasn't motivated enough about the job, etc.

The prof had confronted me about my motivation a few months earlier and we had discussed it. I said I did like my job and gave examples and reasons, but s/he insuated afterwards that s/he didn't really buy it. The prof knew that my research interests were not the same as what the job would entail when s/he interviewed me and s/he remembered this when s/he confronted me. Regardless, after this discussion, I tried to appear more motivated and interested in the job. On a side note, at another time this prof pegged me as "really shy" and something about having anxiety. Admittedly, I am a quiet and introverted and don't really care for smalltalk BUT I do not have anxiety. I've never had a problem with this in the past with any prof. Profs, usually clinical psychologists, can read me right away. Overall, I think this prof is NOT very good at reading people. S/he is also intimidating and highly critical of others. S/he is the type of person that when s/he asks for your opinion what s/he really wants you to do is agree with her/his own.

As it turns out, I did get the new research position. The interviewer was chalked it up to a personality clash, which is an accurate representation. The interviewer also said that if this prof wanted someone to be extroverted and bubbly etc then s/he should have hired such a person in the first place.

Anyway, my question is it reasonable for me to be a bit ticked off that the prof volunteered to be my reference and then gave me a less than favourable one?! If the interviewer hadn't realized it was due to a personality clash, then it could have cost me that job!

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[Marissa4usa]

I'd say it's very reasonable to be ticked of about this, but - in God's name- do not confront the professor about this. It sucks but I'd just let it go. You ended up getting the position, so no major loss there.

In the future, make sure that -even if offered voluntarily - you ask the professor/supervisor whether they feel confident that they can give you a stellar recommendation. There is nothing to be ashamed about asking this question and quite frankly I'd rather have an awkward moment when a potential letter writer answers this question with "No" than not getting a job/grad school acceptance due to a less than stellar letter of rec.

 

[Ollie123]

Reasonable? Sure, though I'm not sure I would do anything about it at this point, other than not use that person in the future.

As an alternative perspective - without reading the letter its hard to tell exactly how this was intended. Many writers include SOME mention of weaknesses to demonstrate that the applicant overcame some difficulties and demonstrated growth. If properly done, I think it could be refreshing and more meaningful than the usual "Person is perfect, just like everyone else I write letters for". Its possible that's what this person meant to do, and either didn't do it well, or your new supervisor was actually just hyper-sensitive to those sorts of comments.

Not saying that's definitely what happened, just suggesting some possibilities🙂 Either way, yes its unfortunate, but it didn't hurt you and now you know not to use that person as a reference again.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Yeah, that sucks, but don't say anything to the prof about it... The psychology world is surprisingly small.

Congrats on the job, btw!

ETA: Ollie makes some really good points, as usual. Also, it was probably better to learn it here than after, say, using that prof as reference for all your grad school applications or something like that.

 

[baba ganoush]

Thanks for the feedback and tips everyone.

Although I daydreamed about it, I would never confront the prof about it. The psych world is indeed small, haha.
I just needed to vent about this! I am very thankful that I found this out before using him/her as a reference for gradschool.

I know my interviewer talked with him/her over the phone so it wasn't by letter. Also, later my supervisor (colleague of the interview) said that the phone call didn't go to well or was bad or something like that. So this makes me think the reference was less than favourable from the get-go.

 

[FadedC]

Yeah sometimes people are just clueless about how the things they say are going to be interpretted. Back in the day I even had a friend who I worked for who got called up for a reference who said something that probably cost me the job when they asked him what he thought my biggest weakness was (he said something he thought was harmless but was a total killer for the industry I was applying to, as well as being wrong). But it wasn't like he meant to screw me over, he's just a little clueless. I just never used him again, he was still my friend.

Chances are this was the same thing. They may have been on the spot and not have thought things through enough. And of course not everyone in the world of science is necesarily a master of social skills and understanding how others will interpret what they say and do.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

If the professor really is the way you've mentioned, it's possible he/she had doubts about your ability to adequately meet the demands of a research position, and thus volunteered to write the letter as a way of letting potential employers/supervisors know about these perceived difficulties. Not saying the professor is accurate, just that it's a possible explanation for his/her volunteering.

Glad you still pulled down the job, though. In the future, my personal "live and learn" suggestion would be that if you know you've had past conflicts with a professor yet they still volunteer to write you a letter, do one of two things: 1) politely turn them down, or 2) politely ask if they'd be comfortable writing you a positive recommendation.

 

[syzergy]

I don't want to hijack this thread but I have another question about LOR etiquette.

I was originally planning to apply to grad school straight out of undergrad and had my LORs all set up. One was going to be from a professor that I had worked with on a topic unrelated to my interests (we'll call her professor A).

I decided to take two years off before school and have worked on many projects since professor A. I met with professor A a few months ago to see if she was still able to write me a LOR and she said she could, even though she'll be on sabbatical this year.

My dilemma is that I now want to ask another professor to write me a LOR in place of professor A's letter.

Professor B is well known in my area of interest, I have a closer relationship with her, and I worked on her project towards the end of my research experience. I am definitely a much more competent researcher than I was in my very first research project with Professor A. I know professor A will write a positive letter but I feel professor B's letter will be much more personal because she knows me and has extensively observed my competency as a researcher.

I know some schools don't care if you have more than three LORs but others do. I haven't talked to professor A in months, she said just send her the materials when I wanted her to write a letter. Is it bad form to just never send her anything or should I write an awkward email about how I've decided to ask someone else? We aren't close so I know it's not like she's sitting around waiting for me to send her the LOR materials.

FYI: I have two other LORs that will be glowing, from professors in my area of interest.

 

[Ollie123]

While you are right its not going to be foremost on her mind while on sabbatical, its kind of rude to just not follow up with her and academia is a small enough community you generally want to avoid things like that since you never know when it might come back to bite you.

Unless she is astonishingly insecure, I think its very unlikely she'd take offense if you sent a quick email saying you appreciate her willingness to write a letter but decided to send one from someone you worked with more recently. If anything, she'll probably be happy to have one less thing on the to-do list. Alternatively, she could be your "fourth" at the schools that allow additional letters.

 

[PsychPhDone]

I don't want to hijack this thread but I have another question about LOR etiquette.

I was originally planning to apply to grad school straight out of undergrad and had my LORs all set up. One was going to be from a professor that I had worked with on a topic unrelated to my interests (we'll call her professor A).

I decided to take two years off before school and have worked on many projects since professor A. I met with professor A a few months ago to see if she was still able to write me a LOR and she said she could, even though she'll be on sabbatical this year.

My dilemma is that I now want to ask another professor to write me a LOR in place of professor A's letter.

Professor B is well known in my area of interest, I have a closer relationship with her, and I worked on her project towards the end of my research experience. I am definitely a much more competent researcher than I was in my very first research project with Professor A. I know professor A will write a positive letter but I feel professor B's letter will be much more personal because she knows me and has extensively observed my competency as a researcher.

I know some schools don't care if you have more than three LORs but others do. I haven't talked to professor A in months, she said just send her the materials when I wanted her to write a letter. Is it bad form to just never send her anything or should I write an awkward email about how I've decided to ask someone else? We aren't close so I know it's not like she's sitting around waiting for me to send her the LOR materials.

FYI: I have two other LORs that will be glowing, from professors in my area of interest.

I'd still use her at schools that allow 4. I had 4/5 writers who I matched up to programs in different variations. Some wrote me 20 letters, some 3, nobody was offended. 🙂

 

[FadedC]

I agree and I had more then the minimum number of writers as well, but all of the schools I applied to also made it clear that this was ok. Even the most brilliant and best intentioned professor can often be unreliable, so having more references then you need is a way to make sure you don't get screwed over when someone flakes out or forgets.

I'd still use her at schools that allow 4. I had 4/5 writers who I matched up to programs in different variations. Some wrote me 20 letters, some 3, nobody was offended. 🙂

 

[thepug]

Thanks for the feedback and tips everyone.

Although I daydreamed about it, I would never confront the prof about it. The psych world is indeed small, haha.
I just needed to vent about this! I am very thankful that I found this out before using him/her as a reference for gradschool.

I know my interviewer talked with him/her over the phone so it wasn't by letter. Also, later my supervisor (colleague of the interview) said that the phone call didn't go to well or was bad or something like that. So this makes me think the reference was less than favourable from the get-go.

I agree with the other poster that it may have been a misinterpretation, but seeing how the phone call went "bad" as well, I think that letter writer of yours was trying to assassinate you, hell they were trying to and your lucky to now work with someone who can see through that kind of thing.

I have heard from classmates in the past who worked with profs that questioned their motivation, encouraging them to quit. I think these profs are people who are hiding something. I bet they wanted you to call them Dr. so-and-so.

When people wish to hold others up to "their" standard, I think deep down they feel that they themselves have been the "victim" at some point..."What I had to go through" kind of stuff...what a bunch of self-indulgent B.S.

Don't confront them...but let them know you got the job AND thank them for their referring you so strongly😀. If they look surprised, tell them that you think they look surprised. Sometimes I think assassins need to get a little blood on em, might make em think the next time they try to do something like that...volunteered to write it...yikes!

Anyone think this would be taking it too far? It's cheeky, but I think it's within the boundaries.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

I was working at a university as a RC for about 6 months. The prof who I was working for had to let me go, however, because the study was being postponed.

Before I left, I wasn't going to ask her to be a reference, but she VOLUNTEERED to be my reference, so I decided to use her as one.

Shortly after I got an interview for another research position (NOT at the same institution). Surprise surprise, the interviewer said there was a discrepancy in my references. 2 were stellar references but not one...She wanted to know my side of the story. The interviewer specifically said s/he didn't say anything bad about me, but I guessed right and it had something to do with the prof's concern that I wasn't motivated enough about the job, etc.

The prof had confronted me about my motivation a few months earlier and we had discussed it. I said I did like my job and gave examples and reasons, but s/he insuated afterwards that s/he didn't really buy it. The prof knew that my research interests were not the same as what the job would entail when s/he interviewed me and s/he remembered this when s/he confronted me. Regardless, after this discussion, I tried to appear more motivated and interested in the job. On a side note, at another time this prof pegged me as "really shy" and something about having anxiety. Admittedly, I am a quiet and introverted and don't really care for smalltalk BUT I do not have anxiety. I've never had a problem with this in the past with any prof. Profs, usually clinical psychologists, can read me right away. Overall, I think this prof is NOT very good at reading people. S/he is also intimidating and highly critical of others. S/he is the type of person that when s/he asks for your opinion what s/he really wants you to do is agree with her/his own.

As it turns out, I did get the new research position. The interviewer was chalked it up to a personality clash, which is an accurate representation. The interviewer also said that if this prof wanted someone to be extroverted and bubbly etc then s/he should have hired such a person in the first place.

Anyway, my question is it reasonable for me to be a bit ticked off that the prof volunteered to be my reference and then gave me a less than favourable one?! If the interviewer hadn't realized it was due to a personality clash, then it could have cost me that job!

I would drop her like a hot potato and forget about her. I would not diss her or do anything to confront her. The psych world is small and a bit gossipy so let sleeping dogs lie. Also understand that many many many professors in academe can be walking case examples from the personality disorder section of the DSM-IV. To volunteer to be a reference and to then give you a poor reference suggests personality psychopathology on her part. Use this as a learning experience and move on.

 

[JuniperTree]

I would drop her like a hot potato and forget about her. I would not diss her or do anything to confront her. The psych world is small and a bit gossipy so let sleeping dogs lie. Also understand that many many many professors in academe can be walking case examples from the personality disorder section of the DSM-IV. To volunteer to be a reference and to then give you a poor reference suggests personality psychopathology on her part. Use this as a learning experience and move on.

It's really hard

OP - I'm actually struggling with something similar, but am especially limited due to a low number of references available to me in the first place, plus the stature of the person from whom I cannot get a reference. I was advised by a person in my field to just get lower-level references, even if they aren't as exciting.