"professionalism"

[Sarafml]

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How important is this when applying for internships/residency?

I'm at the end of my 2nd year, and since no one is going to class anymore (everyone is more focused on board studying at this point) the curriculum has decided to be more strict with attendance.

I'm probably going to get "professionalism points" for not being in class.

Is this really going to impact my future?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

How important is this when applying for internships/residency?

I'm at the end of my 2nd year, and since no one is going to class anymore (everyone is more focused on board studying at this point) the curriculum has decided to be more strict with attendance.

I'm probably going to get "professionalism points" for not being in class.

Is this really going to impact my future?

Professionalism is a nebulous concept and hard to define but I would recommend avoiding any incidents where the school will make note of any lack of professionalism. Just bring your work to class if you're forced to attend. They can't force you to pay attention.

 

[Tiger26]

Main Entry:
pro·fes·sion·al·ism Listen to the pronunciation of professionalism

Pronunciation:
\-ˈfesh-nə-ˌli-zəm, -ˈfe-shə-nə-ˌli-\

Function:
noun

Date:
1856


1 : Used primarily by medical school administrations seeking to assert power primarily through fear and scare tactics--a common colloquial expression similar to this term is "dance monkey, dance!"

 

[Sarafml]

Professionalism is a nebulous concept and hard to define but I would recommend avoiding any incidents where the school will make note of any lack of professionalism. Just bring your work to class if you're forced to attend. They can't force you to pay attention.

I'm the kind of person who can't concentrate with stuff going on around me.

It just stinks cause I've been in class for the past 2 years and I might get punished for skipping out during board study time.

I agree with what you said though.

Main Entry:
pro·fes·sion·al·ism Listen to the pronunciation of professionalism

Pronunciation:
\-ˈfesh-nə-ˌli-zəm, -ˈfe-shə-nə-ˌli-\

Function:
noun

Date:
1856


1 : Used primarily by medical school administrations seeking to assert power primarily through fear and scare tactics--a common colloquial expression similar to this term is "dance monkey, dance!"

Exactly.

I've been going to class for the past 2 years, and because I'm skipping out now in fear of not passing boards I might actually get penalized. At the same time, many students who did not attend class the past 2 years (who decide to show up now) probably won't get in trouble because they're enforcing it now. Its just really lame

 

[GeraldMonroe]

At orientation, one of the medical school administrative people gave a power point presentation where she cited research showing that doctors who got in trouble for professionalism violations in medical school were more likely to be disciplined by a medical board.

I think some schools feel that "if they tolerate you clowning around, pretty soon you'll be killing patients"

 

[Tiger26]

I've gotta say that I did really well on step 1 specifically because i skipped class the first two years, not in spite of it . . .

 

[MediumDef]

At orientation, one of the medical school administrative people gave a power point presentation where she cited research showing that doctors who got in trouble for professionalism violations in medical school were more likely to be disciplined by a medical board.

I think some schools feel that "if they tolerate you clowning around, pretty soon you'll be killing patients"

In order to qualify as unprofessional in this study the behavior had to be independently categorized as "concern, problem, or extreme". Students with no disciplinary action or "trace" were not considered to have committed a violation. Would lecture attendance be considered "concerning" or worse? (Personally I think not)
My opinion is that medical school is professional school and if they want you to act a certain way it's your obligation to do so. If your school doesn't care if you go to class then you're under no obligation to go to class but if it's important enough for them to threaten disciplinary action you should probably go. If they want guys to wear ties to interview mock patients then ties it is. At some point you will have to accept other peoples power over your life. I'm not saying it HAS to be during the first two years of school but eventually you'll have to repress your inner Chuck D.

Sorry I realize i never actually answered your question, in short in terms of residency I have no idea how it would be viewed. My question is do these "professionalism points" get put on your Dean's Letter automatically or do you have to accrue a certain number of infractions before it becomes a legitimate issue and you receive some sort of censure? If it's the latter just keep your nose clean for the rest of your time there and skip as much class as you want.

 

[njbmd]

How important is this when applying for internships/residency?

I'm at the end of my 2nd year, and since no one is going to class anymore (everyone is more focused on board studying at this point) the curriculum has decided to be more strict with attendance.

I'm probably going to get "professionalism points" for not being in class.

Is this really going to impact my future?

If your school has an "attendance policy" that you have not met, then you get dinged. No matter the rationale for not attending class, they seem to have some sort of attendance policy. I am not saying that such policies have merit, I am simply saying that you don't want to give anyone, especially your medical school administration, a "club to beat you with".

If you can, go to class, sit in the back and do your board study. I can tell you that I had two weeks to prepare for USMLE Step I and I was more than saturated by the end of the first week. I didn't need to skip class to prepare for boards and actually found the last few weeks of class, especially pathology, pretty helpful. Again, that was my experience and yours may be quite different.

Bottom line: You don't want anything negative in those LORs for residency application from your Dean or anyone else. If they require class attendance, try to find a way to make the best of it rather than stressing about the consequences of violating their rules. It simply isn't worth it in the long run.

 

[Mattabet]

I think some schools feel that "if they tolerate you clowning around, pretty soon you'll be killing patients"

Lol - I love this slippery slope logic. The same desk jockey is thinking, "If we don't mark students down for lack of professionalism, the next thing you know, they'll be riding around in a stolen ambulance with a cooler full of stolen kidneys."

 

[DrJosephKim]

Faculty need to interact with you in order for them to evaluate your professionalism. If they're simply giving a lecture to a large audience, then they won't have that level of interaction. However, if you're skipping small groups where your prof knows your first name, that's not good.

Your evaluation is more important during your clinical rotations. Here, your interns and residents are also evaluating you for attitude, your conduct, etc. That's where professionalism will be most critical.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I've gotta say that I did really well on step 1 specifically because i skipped class the first two years, not in spite of it . . .

Word. I actually pretty much divorced myself from the official school curriculum 2nd year, and it was a good move. My school curriculum isn't so hot for Step 1 performance, so I decided to just do my own thing.

 

[spicedmanna]

I have a lot of empathy for your situation. 🙁 I'm guessing that, as Doctor Bagel mentioned in her post about her experience, that whatever is going on in class right now at your school isn't apropos or preparing you for the boards. It is a conflict between regulation, which is now being enforced, and what you think is best for you. I think a good school shouldn't make you choose between the two, but that's just the way things go sometimes. I cannot suggest what is the best course of action. You are going to have to decide that for yourself.

 

[silas2642]

How important is this when applying for internships/residency?

I'm at the end of my 2nd year, and since no one is going to class anymore (everyone is more focused on board studying at this point) the curriculum has decided to be more strict with attendance.

I'm probably going to get "professionalism points" for not being in class.

Is this really going to impact my future?

Well, I'm the same year you are, but if your school has a mandatory attendance policy, I'd be there. From what I can tell, you definitely do not want a hx of "unprofessionalism" in your dean's letter or anywhere else in your record; it's just kind of a red flag for your future. If you're supposed to be there, be there. But I definitely feel your pain. Class sucks.

 

[AggieSean]

At orientation, one of the medical school administrative people gave a power point presentation where she cited research showing that doctors who got in trouble for professionalism violations in medical school were more likely to be disciplined by a medical board.

I think some schools feel that "if they tolerate you clowning around, pretty soon you'll be killing patients"

We were told the exact same thing. You don't go to A&M do you?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

We were told the exact same thing. You don't go to A&M do you?

Per this thread:

Texas Tech (Lubbock) c/o 2013

Hey everyone! I'm looking forward to meeting everyone! I'm so stoked about starting med school this year!

He doesn't go anywhere yet...

 

[VoiceofReason]

I've gotta say that I did really well on step 1 specifically because i skipped class the first two years, not in spite of it . . .

its reassuring to hear someone say this. I think I'm probably taking the same approach to the preclinical years that you did. My only consolation so far other than this post has been my shelf scores, my in house exams would have me believe that I know jack.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

I also want to mention that professionalism is a large umbrella covering more than class attendance. For example, if you are assigned a research project as an upperclassman with an M1 and fail to inform them and keep them included (if the M1 is trying to do their part) and publish on your own, that's a big no-no. Just an example outside the attendance portion.

For the OP - I agree with NJBMD about policies in place regarding attendance and professionalism. However, if you were going to be disciplined, you would probably know by now with the end of the semester approaching.

 

[KnuxNole]

Professionalism gets lame after a while. We all know we want to become doctors, it's not like going to class and dressing up professional in class will help. We have mandatory attendance, but I just drag myself to the back and either surf the internet or study if its a week before exams. I probably dressed up "fancy" like once in 4 years, so I hope they can save that for residency 😀

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Per this thread:
He doesn't go anywhere yet...

Just so you know, I did a master's program at a different med school and I sat through orientation which was one big group that included the med students. The school is Rosalind Franklin.

And my roommate was explaining how the ECR class (the one where they teach you which how to do basic examinations) had a "professionalism point" system. One wisecrack in front of a standardized patient, that's a professionalism point. Forget to do an online quiz or your homework - unprofessional. Forget to put on a tie - ditto. Etc. Which really puts a downer on the whole thing, especially on situations when the standardized patient is reading a script that states she is a promiscuous 80 year old who watched NPR and smokes crack. Burst out laughing and there goes your GPA. (2 professionalism points off and you lose a letter grade)

 

[AggieSean]

Just so you know, I did a master's program at a different med school and I sat through orientation which was one big group that included the med students. The school is Rosalind Franklin.

And my roommate was explaining how the ECR class (the one where they teach you which how to do basic examinations) had a "professionalism point" system. One wisecrack in front of a standardized patient, that's a professionalism point. Forget to do an online quiz or your homework - unprofessional. Forget to put on a tie - ditto. Etc. Which really puts a downer on the whole thing, especially on situations when the standardized patient is reading a script that states she is a promiscuous 80 year old who watched NPR and smokes crack. Burst out laughing and there goes your GPA. (2 professionalism points off and you lose a letter grade)

Thanks. I was confused when you said you went to orientation and heard that.

We apparently are "being watched" and our general trend of attendance, dressing up when asked, etc (or lack thereof) is noted and taken into consideration by the "professionalism committee" who will write a letter or something like that. What irks me is that they say class attendance is "expected" but not required. Either make it required or not, don't threaten us with this Big Brother crap (or as someone else put it, dance monkey, dance!) 😡

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Thanks. I was confused when you said you went to orientation and heard that.

We apparently are "being watched" and our general trend of attendance, dressing up when asked, etc (or lack thereof) is noted and taken into consideration by the "professionalism committee" who will write a letter or something like that. What irks me is that they say class attendance is "expected" but not required. Either make it required or not, don't threaten us with this Big Brother crap (or as someone else put it, dance monkey, dance!) 😡

WTF. Seriously, it's one thing if they actually took attendance by some kind of sign-in system, with stated penalties for not showing up.

Or would formally 'gig' you when they see you not being dressed up properly, stating that when you are gigged a specific number of times then you're going to be punished somehow.

But the way you describe it's horrible. There's no standard of evidence or anything! They could "announce" to you after first year that they found your overall behavior to be "moderately unprofessional" and that you're going to be reported as that, with no feedback until that point! The way you describe it, it could be incredibly inconsistent. If you're someone "noticeable" in the crowd, they'd notice every time you don't show in class or because they don't like your haircut. Then some other guy might never show up to lecture and never iron his dress shirts and no-body would even notice. And finally, you could be Mr. Gunner and always be there, always dress right, but get gigged for missing 3 days when you got sick or something.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

If your school has an "attendance policy" that you have not met, then you get dinged. No matter the rationale for not attending class, they seem to have some sort of attendance policy. I am not saying that such policies have merit, I am simply saying that you don't want to give anyone, especially your medical school administration, a "club to beat you with".

If you can, go to class, sit in the back and do your board study. I can tell you that I had two weeks to prepare for USMLE Step I and I was more than saturated by the end of the first week. I didn't need to skip class to prepare for boards and actually found the last few weeks of class, especially pathology, pretty helpful. Again, that was my experience and yours may be quite different.

Bottom line: You don't want anything negative in those LORs for residency application from your Dean or anyone else. If they require class attendance, try to find a way to make the best of it rather than stressing about the consequences of violating their rules. It simply isn't worth it in the long run.

Indeed - you will regret this is it happens. Talk to the Dean if you're really worried to find out if this is saber-rattling by some annoyed basic science profs or if the school is really willing to potentially sabotage your residency selection process based on attendance. If there is even a hint of "unprofessional" behavior on your Dean's letter you will be in deep ****.

Professionalism means exactly whatever the admin wants it to mean minute to minute. It's the last redoubt to which med school administrators can retreat and control student behavior.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Indeed - you will regret this is it happens. Talk to the Dean if you're really worried to find out if this is saber-rattling by some annoyed basic science profs or if the school is really willing to potentially sabotage your residency selection process based on attendance. If there is even a hint of "unprofessional" behavior on your Dean's letter you will be in deep ****.

Professionalism means exactly whatever the admin wants it to mean minute to minute. It's the last redoubt to which med school administrators can retreat and control student behavior.

I wish my fellow medical students would indeed take professionalism more seriously. If all of you "they can't tell me what to do!" people just wore a ****ing tie to clinic and didn't make wisecracks all through standardized patients and showed up on time, they wouldn't have to put rules & criteria in place to enforce professionalism in medical training.

Are they all really so shocked that being a doctor requires a high level of professionalism? That you have to behave yourself? Man, it's great to be part of the Generation of Entitlement.

 

[jonb12997]

I feel like wearing a tie versus making wise cracks in front of patients are two totally and very different issues. From a patient standpoint, I personally could care less if my doctor is wearing a tie or not (assuming they're in something nicer than jeans and a novelty t-shirt), but if a doctor is rude and inconsiderate in front of me, that takes things to a WHOLE other level!

 

[spicedmanna]

I wish my fellow medical students would indeed take professionalism more seriously. If all of you "they can't tell me what to do!" people just wore a ****ing tie to clinic and didn't make wisecracks all through standardized patients and showed up on time, they wouldn't have to put rules & criteria in place to enforce professionalism in medical training.

Are they all really so shocked that being a doctor requires a high level of professionalism? That you have to behave yourself? Man, it's great to be part of the Generation of Entitlement.

I understand your point. I have been an actual professional prior to medical school and have set standards for my employees/staff. It is indeed important to act responsibly and to present yourself well. However, it's when departments get carried away with the concept and use it as a whip to punish students/staff and/or to make them do something that is not in their best interest that upsets me. I'm not saying this is unfamiliar or strange; it's pretty common, but that doesn't make it right. There's a big difference in setting a high standard of performance and presentation versus, let's say, hypothetically, forcing all students, by fear/terror tactics, to attend certain events, even though they are essentially worthless, simply to feed their fragile egos. Aren't professionals intelligent enough to decide what is beneficial and what is not? If students don't show up in droves, isn't that feedback that the event is useless? I'm just using a hypothetical example.

 

[Tiger26]

I wish my fellow medical students would indeed take professionalism more seriously. If all of you "they can't tell me what to do!" people just wore a ****ing tie to clinic and didn't make wisecracks all through standardized patients and showed up on time, they wouldn't have to put rules & criteria in place to enforce professionalism in medical training.

Are they all really so shocked that being a doctor requires a high level of professionalism? That you have to behave yourself? Man, it's great to be part of the Generation of Entitlement.

Not only an unprofessional statement, but also offensive, and I'd expect an apology as someone who's part of that generation.








*See how easy it is to get away with making a big f-ing deal about anything by whipping out the word 'unprofessional'

 

[Igor4sugry]

We had a long presentation on this topic in one of our classes.

We were told of an interesting research that found that there is a correlation between professionalism and rate of malpractice law suits.

The doctor that is sued least is one that is wearing a shirt + tie + white coat.
The next lowest lawsuit rate is for one wearing scrubs + white coat

Then it goes down from there.

It is in everyones best interest to prepare ourselves now for our future jobs. Professionalism cannot be learned from a book or lecture, rather from experience (whether it is a good or bad one, or having to come to class on time as expected and wearing a tie).

 

[turkeyjerky]

We had a long presentation on this topic in one of our classes.

We were told of an interesting research that found that there is a correlation between professionalism and rate of malpractice law suits.

The doctor that is sued least is one that is wearing a shirt + tie + white coat.
The next lowest lawsuit rate is for one wearing scrubs + white coat

Then it goes down from there.

It is in everyones best interest to prepare ourselves now for our future jobs. Professionalism cannot be learned from a book or lecture, rather from experience (whether it is a good or bad one, or having to come to class on time as expected and wearing a tie).

I am so fed up with the notion that everything we do or don't do should be directed at the sole goal of "not getting sued".

Plus, I have to laugh at the idea of "white coat + tie = professionalism". That's even dumber than spiking the water supply with statins.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

It is in everyones best interest to prepare ourselves now for our future jobs. Professionalism cannot be learned from a book or lecture, rather from experience (whether it is a good or bad one, or having to come to class on time as expected and wearing a tie).

I have to admit that I'm giggling here. The thread started out about mandatory attendance in class and professionalism. I'm 20 years older than the average medical student and I was in a licensed profession for 20 years before I ever hit medical school. Since most of my attendings/instructors are my age or younger, in some ways I don't scare as easily.

Who made the ruling that going to class had anything to do with professionalism? If you're going to go to class, show up on time (showered, preferably) - don't talk loudly - don't leave early - in other words, don't do things that are disruptive to other people. That's professionalism. But, if I can learn the material at home and choose to do so, well - I paid my tuition and I will be there on-time for the exam. Yes, we are learning how to be physicians through observation - but we are also the customer and paying very large amounts of tuition. You don't have to check your rights or dignity at the door to be "professional."

When I am with a patient, either real or simulated, I am on-time, clean, shaved, I have my tie and white coat on and I treat the patient with respect and compassion as befits our profession. When I am just on campus for non-clinical things like tests, I am often in shorts, sandals, and I have my earring in. If I am not having direct patient contact, as far as I am concerned - I am "off duty" and it's really nobody's business and has nothing to do with professionalism.

And I am just realizing that I am coming off several long rotations and feeling tired/frisky/crabby, as evidenced by the above...

 

[spicedmanna]

I have to admit that I'm giggling here. The thread started out about mandatory attendance in class and professionalism. I'm 20 years older than the average medical student and I was in a licensed profession for 20 years before I ever hit medical school. Since most of my attendings/instructors are my age or younger, in some ways I don't scare as easily.

Who made the ruling that going to class had anything to do with professionalism? If you're going to go to class, show up on time (showered, preferably) - don't talk loudly - don't leave early - in other words, don't do things that are disruptive to other people. That's professionalism. But, if I can learn the material at home and choose to do so, well - I paid my tuition and I will be there on-time for the exam. Yes, we are learning how to be physicians through observation - but we are also the customer and paying very large amounts of tuition. You don't have to check your rights or dignity at the door to be "professional."

When I am with a patient, either real or simulated, I am on-time, clean, shaved, I have my tie and white coat on and I treat the patient with respect and compassion as befits our profession. When I am just on campus for non-clinical things like tests, I am often in shorts, sandals, and I have my earring in. If I am not having direct patient contact, as far as I am concerned - I am "off duty" and it's really nobody's business and has nothing to do with professionalism.

And I am just realizing that I am coming off several long rotations and feeling tired/frisky/crabby, as evidenced by the above...

I have to tell you, I agree 100% with you. I, too, have been a working professional prior to medical school and am much older than the typical medical student. I think I know a little something about being professional, and you are right, to me it is not synonymous with checking "your rights or dignity at the door." Nowhere in my many years of professional service have I been made to do that in the name of "professionalism." Yet, somehow, professionalism has become a weapon that some medical schools use to get students to do what the administration want; it's like an instrument of terror, so to speak. I am dismayed by this attitude.

With respect to the issue of attendance, I think, as an adult, with a long history of professional work, paying to attend a professional school, I have the ability and commonsense to decide for myself whether a class merits my presence. I certainly don't need or desire to be coerced to attend by the use of fear-evoking moves, such as citing professionalism. Fear tactics don't sit right with me.

 

[AggieSean]

I wish my fellow medical students would indeed take professionalism more seriously. If all of you "they can't tell me what to do!" people just wore a ****ing tie to clinic and didn't make wisecracks all through standardized patients and showed up on time, they wouldn't have to put rules & criteria in place to enforce professionalism in medical training.

Are they all really so shocked that being a doctor requires a high level of professionalism? That you have to behave yourself? Man, it's great to be part of the Generation of Entitlement.

Okay, I agree with some of what you said. What irks me are the other criteria they set for meeting their definition of professionalism, i.e. attending class, and one faculty member even hinted that we shouldn't be partying over the weekends. Should we wear a tie and be on time at clinic and act maturely in front of our patients? Of course we should. Is it really any of the administration's business what I do on my own time in the privacy of my own home, so long as it isn't illegal or affiliated with the school? No. If per the student handbook attendance at class is NOT required, should I be penalized for not going to class? No! I'm paying a large amount of money a year and spending the better part of my 20's learning, and frankly if I want to learn at home and watch the lectures they've already made available for us online, then I think I should be allowed to without fear of retribution from the almighty administration. Either class attendance is required or it isn't, they can't have it both ways.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Okay, I agree with some of what you said. What irks me are the other criteria they set for meeting their definition of professionalism, i.e. attending class, and one faculty member even hinted that we shouldn't be partying over the weekends. Should we wear a tie and be on time at clinic and act maturely in front of our patients? Of course we should. Is it really any of the administration's business what I do on my own time in the privacy of my own home, so long as it isn't illegal or affiliated with the school? No. If per the student handbook attendance at class is NOT required, should I be penalized for not going to class? No! I'm paying a large amount of money a year and spending the better part of my 20's learning, and frankly if I want to learn at home and watch the lectures they've already made available for us online, then I think I should be allowed to without fear of retribution from the almighty administration. Either class attendance is required or it isn't, they can't have it both ways.

And it's exactly that sense of entitlement that bothers the hell out of me. If class attendance is a requirement, you should be penalized for not showing up. Ideally, they should be able to say, "class attendance is required" and people would show up to class and they wouldn't have to punish people for not showing up (for extenuating circumstances), but the Entitlement Generation is trying to take advantage of every chink in the armor they can to get what they think is their birthright.

Just like in every industry in the world - you're not entitled to set your own schedule, you're not entitled to do whatever you want, and you're not entitled to set your own rules. But if people just BEHAVED PROFESSIONALLY, maybe we could. I think entering med school, I had an idealistic impression of what medical students would be like. I figured they'd study hard, be sharp, dedicated, friendly, and professional. Having attended medical school for several years now, I can say that those adjectives do NOT describe the vast majority of medical students. I don't flatter myself that they all describe me as well, but I try. I take my professionalism seriously and I want to be all those things. I just find it continually perplexing that not only are there so many med students that are no where near those adjectives, they DON'T CARE and don't feel like they have any obligation to get as close to that as possible. For a lot of med students, this is a job. They have a "you can't control me" and "I pay tuition so I can do what I want, you basically work for me" attitude. Fine. That sucks, but fine, I can't control that and I try not to judge that different viewpoint. But what defines a profession is the internally-derived commitment to police ourselves, hold each other to a standard that's not just the bare minimum of competency but rather the BEST our field should have to offer, and to do what is right.

Be whoever you want to be. I just hope some like-minded individuals read this and see that it is possible to get through medical school with your values intact. We can't control what standard others live to, but we can control what standard we live to ourselves and I believe it's so worth it.

 

[spicedmanna]

I'm not a rebel at all. I don't at all mind following directives and I have no resistance to it. I don't feel that I am entitled to anything. I didn't grow up with much, so I had to earn everything I have right now. I believe in the value of hard work and perseverance. However, that said, I also don't like to go blindly into things and mindlessly follow directives that make no sense to me, just because someone is threatening me with this or that repercussion and is on some kind of power trip. If there's a good reason for something, then I'm okay with doing what needs to be done, even if I have to swallow my pride, but I really don't like it when people play games, tell me I'm not worthy of their respect, and use power-plays and threats to get me to comply. I know it happens and I'm fairly used to it, but in an environment like medical school, I fully expect to be a partner in my own education, as an intelligent investor in my own future, and not treated like a kindergartener at every turn. I've learned to live with it, though, as we must. Just my 2 cents.

 

[45408]

From what I gather, wearing a tie and showing up = professional. That's all there is to it, right?



There are many things that I think being "a professional" really entails, and I wish we would hear more about those things than just the "You kids better show up to this boring lecture!" I definitely learned better in the library by myself than I would have in lecture. My school was pretty flexible with that.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I'm not a rebel at all. I don't at all mind following directives and I have no resistance to it. I don't feel that I am entitled to anything. I didn't grow up with much, so I had to earn everything I have right now. I believe in the value of hard work and perseverance. However, that said, I also don't like to go blindly into things and mindlessly follow directives that make no sense to me, just because someone is threatening me with this or that repercussion and is on some kind of power trip. If there's a good reason for something, then I'm okay with doing what needs to be done, even if I have to swallow my pride, but I really don't like it when people play games, tell me I'm not worthy of their respect, and use power-plays and threats to get me to comply. I know it happens and I'm fairly used to it, but in an environment like medical school, I fully expect to be a partner in my own education, as an intelligent investor in my own future, and not treated like a kindergartener at every turn. I've learned to live with it, though, as we must. Just my 2 cents.

I like what you said. I agree with the spirit of your position.

From what I gather, wearing a tie and showing up = professional. That's all there is to it, right?



There are many things that I think being "a professional" really entails, and I wish we would hear more about those things than just the "You kids better show up to this boring lecture!" I definitely learned better in the library by myself than I would have in lecture. My school was pretty flexible with that.

Who said wearing a tie and showing up are all that make up professionalism? Absolutely not, we agree on that. But some people refuse to do even these basic things, which are easy to do and reflect respect to the profession and patient. Lapses or occasional deviations are one thing. Blatant, intentional, and selfish attitudes are not (I'm not saying you've got such an attitude, I'm just commenting on the general mental state of some of these people).

 

[45408]

Who said wearing a tie and showing up are all that make up professionalism? Absolutely not, we agree on that. But some people refuse to do even these basic things, which are easy to do and reflect respect to the profession and patient. Lapses or occasional deviations are one thing. Blatant, intentional, and selfish attitudes are not (I'm not saying you've got such an attitude, I'm just commenting on the general mental state of some of these people).

During the first two years, my school only broke out the Professionalism Stick when it came to being on time and wearing Professional Clothing.

 

[The Angriest Bird]

About professionalism:

My presentation:
"A 30-year-old African American lady who presented to the ER with confused speech..."

Resident's presentation:
"A 30-year-old black chick who came in, doesn't know what the **** she's talking about..."

Nuff said

 

[JeffLebowski]

During the first two years, my school only broke out the Professionalism Stick when it came to being on time and wearing Professional Clothing.

You would think that therefore, no one would have a problem satisfying the bare minimum of professionalism criteria established by the school. Pretty easy to wear a tie and show up on time. But by the sounds of it, there were students who thought it the right issue on which to die on their sword.

 

[Jolie South]

You would think that therefore, no one would have a problem satisfying the bare minimum of professionalism criteria established by the school. Pretty easy to wear a tie and show up on time. But by the sounds of it, there were students who thought it the right issue on which to die on their sword.

We are always told to wear white coats for patient presentations in class. They mean to wear professional dress + white coat.

A lot of my classmates like to stick it to the man by wearing whatever they happened to roll out of bed in and throwing their white coat on top of it.

 

[iMD]

im about to start med school in august and my biggest fear isnt the workload, it's the people with sticks up their butt. we're wrong for having a sense of entitlement? we are entitled to do what we want within reason. a big part of why doctors are shat on is because we dont speak up and say what is good for us. instead, we sit by and take what's given to us because we hold the profession and ourselves at such a high standard. it's one thing to make us put on a shirt and tie for the patient (which i agree with, of course), it's another thing to make attendance mandatory for lectures we can learn on our own.

if i want to skip class so i can work on my own schedule and keep myself sane, i'm going to do that. if the med school doesn't like it, they should make their rules clearer so people know to stay away from that med school before they apply to it.