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bootsiema

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After a MD, residency, cardiology fellowship and joining as an assistant professor (non-clinical) in heart failure I am surprised to see average salaries so low ( $150K ?). This is after a MD? I am looking at large institutions like Stanford, NYU and Duke. Is this for real? I am assuming salaries are lower as I wanted to focus on research (not clinic work or interacting with patients)
 
Yeah pretty standard I’m afraid. Seems like the bigger the name, the lower the comp. Non clinical even more so. I’ve had friends at top places quote numbers not much higher for clinical positions too.

Seems like many people use the big name places as stepping stones. From when I interviewed for residency to when I interviewed for fellowship and jobs, some big name places had lost a sizable chunk of their junior faculty.

In the end, regardless of where you work, you will need to justify your salary in some way. That can be clinical revenue or research funding, but you need to generate dollars coming in that supports what you’re being paid. Generally hard to do that right out of the gate, and some places leverage their cachet so they can pay less for young talent. Some places pay quite competitively though - very institution dependent.
 
After a MD, residency, cardiology fellowship and joining as an assistant professor (non-clinical) in heart failure I am surprised to see average salaries so low ( $150K ?). This is after a MD? I am looking at large institutions like Stanford, NYU and Duke. Is this for real? I am assuming salaries are lower as I wanted to focus on research (not clinic work or interacting with patients)
Why would you get an MD if you want to focus on research and not patients? A PhD would have been a better route
 
At most institutions research is a revenue sink. If you're not reeling in R01's or doing billable clinical work then your pay is getting siphoned from somewhere else. In that light, 150K for an assistant professor gig is arguably generous.

If money is a motivator, then do at least 10-20% clinical time and move into industry after you've established some cred.
 
After a MD, residency, cardiology fellowship and joining as an assistant professor (non-clinical) in heart failure I am surprised to see average salaries so low ( $150K ?). This is after a MD? I am looking at large institutions like Stanford, NYU and Duke. Is this for real? I am assuming salaries are lower as I wanted to focus on research (not clinic work or interacting with patients)
Kind of takes a lot of the fun out of getting accepted into one of those magic t20s, doesn't it?
A lot of status obsessed pre-meds don't know that academic faculty in the clinical Sciences make well less than their clinical colleagues in practice.
 
Kind of takes a lot of the fun out of getting accepted into one of those magic t20s, doesn't it?
A lot of status obsessed pre-meds don't know that academic faculty in the clinical Sciences make well less than their clinical colleagues in practice.
Yeah this is definitely an area where prestige doesn’t always translate into dollars. I know one top tier academic dept that was offering $700k for a new assistant prof (50/50) but that was definitely the exception! Came with some pretty intense expectations too - an “up or out” kind of thing.

One of my faculty who had come back to the ivory tower from PP once said to me, “at some point, usually around the 2-3 year mark, your chairman or your senior partners are going to have a meeting with you. And they will title this meeting in some euphemistic way, but in the end it’s will all be about whether you’re bringing in adequate revenue to justify your compensation.”
 
What did you expect? Someone would pay you lots of money for publishing papers? I agree with other posters that this is actually a very generous salary for someone 100% non-clinical; you might find offers approaching 5 figures out there. Keep in mind, also, that you are paying a "tax" for the institutional name on your white coat - the bigger the name the higher the cost - which at some places is quite steep. Wanna say you work at Brigham or Harvard or wherever? It'll literally come out of your salary.

I post this any time there is discussion of salary: MD salaries are directly correlated to services you bill for, as well as services you are able to bill for that other physicians cannot (e.g. certain procedures, specialized tests), and patient volume; not how much training you have or what you've published. That's true in academics and community practice both. I'm a great teacher and do a little quality improvement on the side; I have advanced knowledge in a subspecialty field and can provide a standard of care which few other physicians can. That's probably worth 1-2% of my salary as an academic physician. But realistically, I'm not publishing any awesome papers, winning any national awards, or coming up with any brilliant ideas. I could cold turkey stop doing all of that, and at worst might get an email about how teaching more or doing other things might help my academic CV. But the other 98-99% of my value to my department is all about one number, which is the RVUs I generate.

There are institutions that will pay unique physicians a decent salary exclusively for their highly specialized expertise, regardless of their billing - our department has a few of those - but if you fall within the majority of academic physicians, just as community physicians, your bosses are going to want to see that you are annually generating revenue that exceeds your salary, by a decent margin.

I'll end with this: I know a physician (not at my institute) who is an international expert in a rare, life-threatening disease at a premier academic institute, to the extent that if you are diagnosed with this disease somewhere in the developed world, there is a decent chance you'll see them, as they almost exclusively see and study this disease. They present at international conferences and have a study full of awards and diplomas. No one could argue against this person's clinical value. But because they're 40% clinical, and academic, they make less annually than the number stated in the original post. That's just the name of the game.
 
I find it interesting that people think more training/letters after your name = more money. I see this sentiment constantly on the residency and med school subreddits, but it's just not how it works. Achieve things because you want to, not because you think achieving a bunch of stuff will make you lots of money.

If you want to make the most money as a cardiologist, go through your training, get hired by the biggest PP group you can find, and make partner after grinding 60-80 hours a week for another few years, or whatever the equivalent path is for cardiology. Because that's what generates the most revenue and thereby gives you the most financial reward.

Academic PhDs cap out in the low-mid 100s afaik unless they're a hugely important person and they spend 4-8 years for their degree plus often 2-6 years in post doc. They're no less worthy of making lots of money as a doctor based on hard work, they just don't produce as much revenue and therefore are paid according to the economic system we live in. In my own former field of software engineering, someone with a PhD made the same, maybe a tiny bit more, as someone with a BS doing the same job. 🤷‍♂️
 
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