Program Prestige/Reputation

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Pod12345

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As a student considering residency/externship choices, one question has always weighed on me but I have never gotten a good answer: How much of a difference does it make to go to a "big name" residency program over a lesser known program? As in, will it make a significant difference in my job search/earning potential coming out of residency?

I have asked this question to a few people at different programs and it seems that it is difficult to get an unbiased answer. Searching the forums revealed few relevant results and I thought it would be good to see what the internet thought about it. Thanks

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None. When you do externships ask the residents what sort of jobs the graduating residents are getting. Doesn't matter how well known the program is, if they can get good jobs afterwards choose that one. I know people who went to well known programs who were posting classifieds on ACFAS advertising themselves, and this was 6 months before graduation.
 
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None. When you do externships ask the residents what sort of jobs the graduating residents are getting. Doesn't matter how well known the program is, if they can get good jobs afterwards choose that one. I know people who went to well known programs who were posting classifieds on ACFAS advertising themselves, and this was 6 months before graduation.

x 1 million % points

Also I know fellows who are looking for jobs 2 months before graduating from top programs that go to work for other pods. I would want to make sure that graduating residents feel they are ready (ie as ready as you can be as a soon to be grad) to work. Honestly these days I would be scared by a program that sends lots of fellows or people that want to do a fellow. Either it is because they are not getting enough training - or there is an inferiority complex that is likely to infect you too. Based on what is happening to fellows and jobs the last few years, there is minimal reason to do one if there is a good job on the table. Its not getting any better after a fellowship and its hard to put a price on "the experience" that will benefit you in the long run.

So back to point - forget about names - you want to know where the last 2 years of residents have gone to work. If they are all working for local pods - not a good sign. If they have moved away and have hospital/MSG jobs - good sign. working for pods in a distant location - neutral.
 
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None of that BS matters. None.

Get well trained, Be Social, Get money
 
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I think those in “big name” programs or have fellowship training also have to be aware that jobs that utilize the full extent of your training will still be difficult to come by. You’ll have to still work hard and be open minded to relocating to get your dream job. With that said, you can still work for a local podiatrist if you negotiate a fair contract, you’ll be providing a great service to your community and practice with your skillset. A lot of times, being successful in the beginning also means just being nice and available, a lot of people will find you just because you can offer an appointment same day or within a couple days.
 
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I think those in “big name” programs or have fellowship training also have to be aware that jobs that utilize the full extent of your training will still be difficult to come by. You’ll have to still work hard and be open minded to relocating to get your dream job. With that said, you can still work for a local podiatrist if you negotiate a fair contract, you’ll be providing a great service to your community and practice with your skillset. A lot of times, being successful in the beginning also means just being nice and available, a lot of people will find you just because you can offer an appointment same day or within a couple days.
how long have you been in practice?

Work for another podiatrist? Negotiate a fair contract? The really doesn't happen in podiatry. Every associate is being taken to school on their first contract out of residency. Fact.

Fellowship training could be a whole other thread. I have no fellowship training. I really don't need it. Would I be more comfortable with surgery if I did one? Yes. But for the most part I have already done almost every big surgery you can do in podiatry while out in practice. Fellowship training is overrated. Fellowship training does not make up for 3 years of poor podiatry residency training
 
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how long have you been in practice?

Work for another podiatrist? Negotiate a fair contract? The really doesn't happen in podiatry. Every associate is being taken to school on their first contract out of residency. Fact.

Fellowship training could be a whole other thread. I have no fellowship training. I really don't need it. Would I be more comfortable with surgery if I did one? Yes. But for the most part I have already done almost every big surgery you can do in podiatry while out in practice. Fellowship training is overrated. Fellowship training does not make up for 3 years of poor podiatry residency training

I’ve been practicing for several years and while true there are a lot of opportunities that are unfair, I don’t want readers to believe that it is all “doom and gloom” with private practice podiatrists. I have several friends who have landed very fair private practice gigs with local podiatrists that they have developed a relationship with. They are very successful only a couple years out doing mostly what you’ve described without fellowship training.
 
I’ve been practicing for several years and while true there are a lot of opportunities that are unfair, I don’t want readers to believe that it is all “doom and gloom” with private practice podiatrists. I have several friends who have landed very fair private practice gigs with local podiatrists that they have developed a relationship with. They are very successful only a couple years out doing mostly what you’ve described without fellowship training.

Tell me what's fair? I would LOVE to read what you consider a fair contract in podiatry.
 
80k-120k salary with 20-40% of collections over double your salary or overhead in first year plus benefits, with yearly changes in the contract to increase the % of what you take home based on collections and decreases in salary. Basically what you make depends on how successful you are.
 
80k-120k salary with 20-40% of collections over double your salary or overhead in first year plus benefits, with yearly changes in the contract to increase the % of what you take home based on collections and decreases in salary. Basically what you make depends on how successful you are.

That sounds like a typical crappy associate's contract. If you really think 80-120k base is fair then I don't know what else to say. My brother has been a middle computer teacher for close to 15 years. His salary is > 100K.

Do you think a "doctor" should make less than a middle school teacher?

What you make depends on how successful you are....you don't say. Being successful in a private podiatry practice happens several ways:

1) you inherit someone else's patient volume because they either quit or got fired

2) you find a job with a bunch of TFPs who just feed you the surgical stuff they used to refer out

If you didn't land either of those two associate job scenarios out of residency then you will have an extremely difficult time becoming successful outside of the providers who are already established and have the community all covered
 
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That sounds like a typical crappy associate's contract. If you really think 80-120k base is fair then I don't know what else to say. My brother has been a middle computer teacher for close to 15 years. His salary is > 100K.

Do you think a "doctor" should make less than a middle school teacher?

What you make depends on how successful you are....you don't say. Being successful in a private podiatry practice happens several ways:

1) you inherit someone else's patient volume because they either quit or got fired

2) you find a job with a bunch of TFPs who just feed you the surgical stuff they used to refer out

If you didn't land either of those two associate job scenarios out of residency then you will have an extremely difficult time becoming successful outside of the providers who are already established and have the community all covered

I don't know about you but this setup allowed those new grads to start taking home over 200k in 1-2 years
 
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Yes, that seems to be a decent living by any standards especially first couple years out. I guess you’re just a level above the rest of us.

No I just know what my skill set is really worth. Our profession is worth a lot more. You have accepted the standard that private practice podiatry has told you is fair. It's very sad
 
A fair contract for a BUSY private practice would be 150-175K with a percentage, preferably at least 20-30 percent over a certain gross that is realistic to obtain.

The reality is most practices bring on new associates without having enough work/established patients for them, hoping you grow the practice, with little to no financial on their part. That's what the 80-90 K starting plus a 25 percent of gross of collections contract is-- but guess what you won't have enough work to hit the 190-200s, because the patient's aren't there, and the practice is most likely screwing you. WOW?! I can make 190 K my first year out?! Yes....sure it is possible junior doctor... and we want you to think that...and we want you to sign your contract, you will do so well with us here! Think you are getting a fair share of DME/orthotics? Think again.
 
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A REAL contract is a percentage of gross collections! .... lets cut all the BS... if the work is there then a 40-50% of gross collections to the associate is the way to go .... bring in 500K for the practice go home with 200-250K .... everyone is happy and there is incentive to keep is going and grow!! thoughts anyone ?
 
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It's not always who is making the most money. If 120,000 plus a bonus is good for an applicant then it's fair. Perhaps the job is in a location they and their significant other really want to live vs a 250,000 job in a location they deplore. Is the job offering the lifestyle you want? Is it close to family or your hometown? Is their opportunity for growth? Now if you are driven by money then that may not be your type of job offer.

Yes there are other careers that may pay the same or more but no one said you couldn't have been whatever you wanted. A middle school teacher. There isn't enough money in the world for me to do that job. Just not my cup of tea. Remember over 50% of Americans make less than 50,000 gross a year.

Bottom line it's up to the individual.
 
You should be interested in which programs are a good fit for your personality, have an ethical caring faculty, provide diversity, and have enough of what you find stimulating so that you learn and enjoy your time
 
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Return of The Podfather!
 
How much of a difference does it make to go to a "big name" residency program over a lesser known program? As in, will it make a significant difference in my job search/earning potential coming out of residency?

Here's what does matter IMO, based on speaking with classmates and colleagues...

There is a reason many "big name" programs are well known. While there are plenty IMO that no longer live up to the hype (residency directors have changed, certain attendings have left, another program in town has gotten better and leaves the better known program behind in terms of training, etc.), a majority of them still offer better training than the average residency program. Like others have mentioned, the training style may not fit your learning style, but on average you are going to get better training at the programs who are essentially getting their choice of residents year in and year out. The perk to the somewhat rapid evolution of our training is that there are more and more lesser known programs that will give you great training. That wasn't always the case. More often than not this does not dictate what kind of job the resident is getting and what kind of money they are making coming out of practice (I would be exhibit A...unfortunately). What it does seem to affect is how comfortable they are practicing (in both clinic and the OR) coming out of residency.

I don't know that I went to a "big name" program. For those who have heard of it, we certainly had a reputation. But I will tell you that my co-resident and I, as well as previous grads will tell you that we have been typically more comfortable running a clinic, running an OR, and treating patient's without having our hands held after graduation when compared to many of our classmates. While it can depend on the individual, I think "big name" programs are more likely (on average) to give you more clinic and surgical encounters in residency and make you a more capable and confident podiatrist day 1 in the real world. After several years out in practice though, those traits/skills/etc. will begin to level out or evolve depending on the practice situation.

Podfather is right in that "fit" is probably the most important thing to evaluate when looking at residencies.
 
A REAL contract is a percentage of gross collections! .... lets cut all the BS... if the work is there then a 40-50% of gross collections to the associate is the way to go .... bring in 500K for the practice go home with 200-250K .... everyone is happy and there is incentive to keep is going and grow!! thoughts anyone ?

Who out there is getting 40-50% of collection?? Highest I've heard of is 35% of collection.
 
Who out there is getting 40-50% of collection?? Highest I've heard of is 35% of collection.
I had 40% at a multi specialty group and my buddy gets 42 at a similar place. Not going to get that working for another pod.
 
I know of pods who paid 40 percent straight no base. If busy practice I would take
 
Highest I’ve heard of with a podiatrist (as an associate) is 40% of collections. Multispecialty groups and ortho groups are typically 50% of collections (or better).
 
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