Programs similar to Clinical PhD?

[amn]

Hi all,

I am planning on applying to PhD Clinical Programs. I would also like to apply to a different type of program for back-up. Any suggestions? Are PhD Counseling and School Programs any similar? How about masters programs that lead to licensure that are similar?

Thanks so much!
AMN

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[cara susanna]

I've been told that Counseling PhD programs aren't good backups because they're just as competitive.

 

[deleted176373]

I've been told that Counseling PhD programs aren't good backups because they're just as competitive.

Ever so slightly less competitive, but still VERY competitive.

Still I would much rather go to a great counseling program with funding than most professional schools... provided you can find one that is a good match for your interests. Depending on your research interests, there is a fair bit of overlap between clinical and counseling psychology, but the intersection between clinical and counseling is an interesting one and if you can appreciate the two different perspective, then you might be one of those who could fit into either program. More often than not, you're more suited to one than the other.

Mark

 

[Pia Getty]

If interested in working with child populations, child clinical and school PhD programs have many similarities.

 

[thewesternsky]

Being licensed at the M.A. level is similar in a few ways, and very, very different in others. Some of the similarities and differences also vary by state. The level and type of training is very different between Ph.D. and M.A. levels. So make sure to do plenty of research before you decide to attend one type of program over the other. There are some threads on the differences, I think, which you may be able to find using the search function on the forum.

If you're primarily interested in conducting supportive therapy, crisis intervention, and case management, you may also want to think about Master's in Social Work programs. These are, on average, much less competitive in terms of entrance requirements than clinical Ph.D. programs.

I hope you don't take this too personally, because I mean it as general advice and really know nothing about you at all-- But *if* you ultimately decide that you can do all the things that you want to do as a licensed master's-level clinician or social worker, rather than as a clinical psychologist, then this might be the best route for you to take whether you get into a Ph.D. program or not. Doctoral level training is difficult, stressful, and (sometimes) expensive. Master's level training can also be all of the above, but if you hate the schooling then you're done in two years, rather than six. So be sure to consider all your options, and if you choose a Ph.D. program-- Make sure you're doing it because you WANT to (because you want the flexibility, because you love research, because you believe in the training model, whatever), not simply because you were able to get in.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Like others have said, it really matters *what* you want to do. So, what do you want to do?

 

[amn]

Thank you all for your feedback so far. At this point, I have a strong interest in the PhD Clinical Programs. I want to be able to do research as well as the clinical aspect. I have applied the past two years, without much success. The first year I was accepted to a program, but turned it down as I felt it was not the best fit for me. I am concerned about not being accepted again, and would like to get started on schooling. I was not sure if there was a masters program or another type of program that is similar or at least a good step toward a PhD program. I feel as though I am a very strong candidate (high GPA, decent GRE scores, 2 publications, clinical experience, 3 years of research experience after college and great letters of recommendations).

Any thoughts?

 

[futureapppsy2]

What do you want to research? That would determine whether or not school psych would be a good fit.

 

[amn]

Anxiety and depression in adolescents is my main focus.

 

[krisrox]

Anxiety and depression in adolescents is my main focus.

You might want to see if any school psych programs match with your interests. They are generally less competetive and many cater towards adolescents. They are less willing to offer funding, however.

 

[aagman01]

I am in a school psych program. If you are interestd in working with children or adolescents, you can gain competency in research or can get the same psychology licensure through school psych that you can get through clinical psych (plus, you can also get national certification as a school psych to work in schools if you want, that is much harder to get if you are clinical or counseling).

Many school psych programs offer full funding to all phd students. My program offers full funding to all doc students.

It does depend where you attend, however. Most NYC area school psych phd programs only offer predominantly partial and even no funding to phd students, though. U of Kentucky, Wisconsin, and Minnesota are 3 programs I know of that offer full funding to all doc students in school psych. U of Washington, St. John's, Columbia, Hofstra, and Yeshiva u are school psych phd programs I know of that predominantly offer partial or no funding for phd school psych students.

Good luck!

You might want to see if any school psych programs match with your interests. They are generally less competetive and many cater towards adolescents. They are less willing to offer funding, however.

 

[JP West]

I am in a school psyc program as well. If you select a program where the professors are active in publishing their work, and their interests approximate yours, you should have no problem getting the research experience you are looking for. If you are concerned with prestige, be aware that school psyc. does not usually reach the levels of clinical programs.

In terms of the clinical piece, attending a clinical psychology program will probably give you a more thorough course sequence in child and adolescent therapy, thought not necessarily in assessment. One of the primary roles of a doctoral level school psychologist is to be an expert in child development.

If you interview well and have the drive, you can get the same quality of field placements as a school psyc student as the clinical psyc students get. I am located in an urban area where I have worked at nationally recognized institutions alongside clinical psychology students for my entire grad school experience. I've made an extra effort to find good mentors and supervisors, and have done a lot of independent reading to help account for the coursework that my peers in clinical psyc have that I lack. Am I as skillful a clinician as clinical psyc students with the same number of years of training? I hope so but cannot answer that question objectively.

As Aagman01 mentioned, the "perk" is the option of certification and employment as a school psychologist. There's a discussion thread at the top of this forum right now entitled "60K to work with borderlines all day" or something to that effect. The general consensus among posters is that clinical psychologists are many times underpaid for their work and skills. There are a good number of school districts out there where as a PhD, you start a drop below 60K, increase your salary steadily to way above that number, and only work 10 months a year. In more expensive areas like New York and California, the upper salary limits are in the 100k area. There are cons to this kind of position, mostly related to "independence" as a professional, but the benefits, security, hours, and stress level are major pros. Plus I'd rather work with kids all day than borderline patients

Good luck, and I'm happy to answer more specific questions about school psyc if you have any.

 

[amn]

Thank you so much for all of this information. Are school psychologists limited to working in schools when they are done? Also, do you know of any schools on the east coast that have full funding? and/or are more focused on mental health? I am really interested in children suffering from mental disorders as opposed to healthy development.

I look forward to hearing from you!

AMN

 

[JP West]

A PhD or PsyD. level school psychologist can get licensed by the state and work in any child psychology setting. Any non-doctorate degree will limit you to working in the school setting.

I'm not sure what funding is like these days. I am on the east coast and had 50-75% % funding depending on the year. Now I think my school is more like 25-50%. I would suggest checking out the state school in your home state.

A good school psychology program will have solid coursework on normal AND abnormal child development. If working with children who have more serious psychopathology is your thing, the best way to learn is to get field placements with those populations. It will be helpful if one or more of the program professors actually practiced in psychology with that population, which you can find out by asking.

When interviewing for programs or asking questions in general, find out where the current students do their externships and internships. That will give you a lot of good information.

 

[amn]

Thank you for that information. Do you know of any strong School Psych programs on the east coast? Particularly in NY or CT?

Thanks,
AMN

 

[krisrox]

Just for the record, the "PsyD" in school osych is called a "specialist"- an EdS.
There are plenty of school psych programs on the east coast with full funding. In fact, I'm aopplying to a few. PM me if you want details.