Programs that accept both USMLE and comlex

[Deepa100]

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Hi,
I am a 3rd yr DO student. I have not taken USMLE and have no plans to take it. I see on some of the hospital residency sites we accept both USMLE and COMLEX but we look for >200 USMLE score. How does this translate into what COMLEX scores they are asking for?

 

[desijigga]

Hi,
I am a 3rd yr DO student. I have not taken USMLE and have no plans to take it. I see on some of the hospital residency sites we accept both USMLE and COMLEX but we look for >200 USMLE score. How does this translate into what COMLEX scores they are asking for?

Best to call or send a polite email to the program coordinators of couple programs and ask. I would wait till march or april as right now they are busy with interviewing and preparing for the match season.

 

[deleted245139]

be aware that this can vary widely...
for instance: U of Michigan Anesthesia...
-minimum USMLE: 200
-minimum COMLEX: 600

 

[cliquesh]

be aware that this can vary widely...
for instance: U of Michigan Anesthesia...
-minimum USMLE: 200
-minimum COMLEX: 600

Yea, the Univ of Maryland Anesthesia PD told me that I'd likely get an interview if I score in the 220's on the USMLE or >600 on the Comlex. Taking the usmle makes life so much easier.

 

[Dissected]

be aware that this can vary widely...
for instance: U of Michigan Anesthesia...
-minimum USMLE: 200
-minimum COMLEX: 600

What an outrageous parallel.

600 Comlex is greater than 1 SD above the mean
200 USMLE is roughly 1 SD below the mean

OP - contact programs directly - I would start with the program coordinator for whatever specialty you are interested in. They are usually very cordial and helpful.

 

[El Dooderino]

What an outrageous parallel.

600 Comlex is greater than 1 SD above the mean
200 USMLE is roughly 1 SD below the mean

OP - contact programs directly - I would start with the program coordinator for whatever specialty you are interested in. They are usually very cordial and helpful.

For all intents and purposes they're saying they require usmle

 

[Dissected]

For all intents and purposes they're saying they require usmle

Yea, pretty much. That's still kind of a slap in the face. Why accept comlex at all if you are only going to take DO students from the 90th percentile while you take MD students from well below the 50th percentile. Are there any programs that have USMLE cut offs of 240 or above? The highest I've seen is 220 (I'm admittedly no expert).

 

[Rollo]

Yea, pretty much. That's still kind of a slap in the face. Why accept comlex at all if you are only going to take DO students from the 90th percentile while you take MD students from well below the 50th percentile. Are there any programs that have USMLE cut offs of 240 or above? The highest I've seen is 220 (I'm admittedly no expert).

I guess in their minds, they perceive that a MD student below the 50th percentile is as good as a DO student above the 90th percentile...

I've met more idiot MD students on the wards than the number of steps required in the Spencer technique for adhesive capsulitis...

 

[DuxburyPembroke]

Or maybe they just don't trust the COMLEX as a test? Seems like it would be easier to just take the USMLE if you want to go to one of those programs...

 

[Rollo]

Or maybe they just don't trust the COMLEX as a test? Seems like it would be easier to just take the USMLE if you want to go to one of those programs...

"We don't trust this test so instead of saying we can't accept it, we're going to filter out people who scored 90th percentile or above. It might seem ironic to not trust a test and at the same time only screen for people who did really, really, really well on it but hey damn it, we're too smart for you backwards-glorified-chiropractors."

 

[GraceEuphoria]

I guess in their minds, they perceive that a MD student below the 50th percentile is as good as a DO student above the 90th percentile...

I've met more idiot MD students on the wards than the number of steps required in the Spencer technique for adhesive capsulitis...[/QUOTE]

So...more than 7? Lol...just checking since the stages of Spencer I learned had 7 steps. Guess I was mainly wondering if that meant you've met 8, or a whole lot...🙂

 

[DO Anes]

"We don't trust this test so instead of saying we can't accept it, we're going to filter out people who scored 90th percentile or above. It might seem ironic to not trust a test and at the same time only screen for people who did really, really, really well on it but hey damn it, we're too smart for you backwards-glorified-chiropractors."

You don't get it. The USMLE has been shown to correlate with success on the anesthesiology written boards. The COMLEX has not. For programs that still accept the COMLEX (an increasingly small number), a higher score is required and still not given as much weight as the USMLE.

 

[ushush]

I guess in their minds, they perceive that a MD student below the 50th percentile is as good as a DO student above the 90th percentile...

I've met more idiot MD students on the wards than the number of steps required in the Spencer technique for adhesive capsulitis...

I guess in their minds, they perceive that a MD student below the 50th percentile is as good as a DO student above the 90th percentile...

I've met more idiot MD students on the wards than the number of steps required in the Spencer technique for adhesive capsulitis...

Why don't you take USMLE?? If you score 90%ile on usmle and a 50%ile MD student is picked over you, then what you are saying is correct. As OMS-1 I obviously have not started studying specifically for steps but I have noticed some serious insecurities in my classmates:
1) "spencer technique blablabla" is more important than biochemistry. So what if biochem was my lowest score on the recent exam, I don't need it to be a dr.
2) usmle is whack. they go too much into detail. i went to do school because i want to be a DO. blablabla.
At the same time some other info that is unrelated to any single individual:
1) Most review books on sale (except omm) are geared towards USMLE. for example most OMS students own books like lipinkott biochem and brs anatomy. So in fact they are studying for USMLE.
2) So decide whether your DO degree includes OMM in addition to standard basic sciences or instead of? Most DO students know that on average they did much worse on MCAT than MD students and they know that in basic sciences "we are not as competitive/cut throat as MD students". So if you tell someone that they need to know a certain detail that is stressed in a review book or textbook they just say "that's too much detail for me".
3) I have a feeling that COMLEX, even if you eliminate OMM, has a lot more stupid questions than USMLE. They may ask you questions such as "what is a lemon sign?" or "what is lub-dub"? So I don't see any reason not to take USMLE more seriously.

 

[Rollo]

You don't get it. The USMLE has been shown to correlate with success on the anesthesiology written boards. The COMLEX has not. For programs that still accept the COMLEX (an increasingly small number), a higher score is required and still not given as much weight as the USMLE.

Finally. If there is a data where USMLE has a better correlation than COMLEX at predicting success of residents on specialty boards, then PLEASE make these data available to med students, especially DO students. This is the kind of evidence we need so that DO school administration can finally shut up and stop preaching the mindless "Don't take USMLE" mantra that gets fed to naive students.

Why don't you take USMLE?? If you score 90%ile on usmle and a 50%ile MD student is picked over you, then what you are saying is correct. As OMS-1 I obviously have not started studying specifically for steps but I have noticed some serious insecurities in my classmates:
1) "spencer technique blablabla" is more important than biochemistry. So what if biochem was my lowest score on the recent exam, I don't need it to be a dr.
2) usmle is whack. they go too much into detail. i went to do school because i want to be a DO. blablabla.
At the same time some other info that is unrelated to any single individual:
1) Most review books on sale (except omm) are geared towards USMLE. for example most OMS students own books like lipinkott biochem and brs anatomy. So in fact they are studying for USMLE.
2) So decide whether your DO degree includes OMM in addition to standard basic sciences or instead of? Most DO students know that on average they did much worse on MCAT than MD students and they know that in basic sciences "we are not as competitive/cut throat as MD students". So if you tell someone that they need to know a certain detail that is stressed in a review book or textbook they just say "that's too much detail for me".
3) I have a feeling that COMLEX, even if you eliminate OMM, has a lot more stupid questions than USMLE. They may ask you questions such as "what is a lemon sign?" or "what is lub-dub"? So I don't see any reason not to take USMLE more seriously.

I did take the USMLE, scored in 70th percentile, and since you're an OMSI, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself because you don't want to come off sounding like someone who knows what they're talking about. Mmmk pumpkin? 🙂

 

[ushush]

I did take the USMLE, scored in 70th percentile, and since you're an OMSI, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself because you don't want to come off sounding like someone who knows what they're talking about. Mmmk pumpkin? 🙂

ok😴

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Finally. If there is a data where USMLE has a better correlation than COMLEX at predicting success of residents on specialty boards, then PLEASE make these data available to med students, especially DO students. This is the kind of evidence we need so that DO school administration can finally shut up and stop preaching the mindless "Don't take USMLE" mantra that gets fed to naive students.



I did take the USMLE, scored in 70th percentile, and since you're an OMSI, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself because you don't want to come off sounding like someone who knows what they're talking about. Mmmk pumpkin? 🙂

I will say, I was impressed when our Dean got up at one of our Dean's hours with him last year (end of OMS-I) and basically said, yep, if you plan to stay in TN, there are no osteopathic programs here, so I'd recommend taking both. I believe he also stated that taking both is recommended by them for certain specialties. At least they were realistic with us. They of course do tell us they'd love to see every student do an osteopathic residency and practice rural family med in Appalachia....they know that that won't happen though, so rather than shaft the students who will not do this, it seems wise to keep everyone informed of how to proceed otherwise.

 

[scotchtapetest]

be aware that this can vary widely...
for instance: U of Michigan Anesthesia...
-minimum USMLE: 200
-minimum COMLEX: 600

First to address the stated USMLE cutoff:
Yes the "cutoff" is at 200, but that is the same as 2.5 GPA cutoff for medical school. There is NO way you will get an interview/match with a 200 the same way that there is no way to get an interview/acceptance with a 2.5 GPA (there is always exceptions for people with extraordinary circumstances like knowing the PD).

With regards to COMLEX cutoff:
There are some places that do not want DOs in their program. Which is fine (it's their loss). But you do not need a 600 to match to ACGME gas even at more competitive places than U of Mich. Also, with 600 at U of Mich. you will have SIGNIFICANTLY higher chance of matching/interviewing than with a 200 on the USMLE. So, I don't think they are equating 200 to a 600.

 

[Vita]

So...I am not sure what the OP is going into, but from a Pediatrics stand point I have a little info.

I emailed a few programs because I only took COMLEX. Most said they like to see anywhere from 475-500 range or above for COMLEX, above 200 for USMLE. These were only a handful of ACGME programs in the Southeast that I emailed. Basically, they told me that if your COMLEX was below their cut-off, they wanted you to take USMLE to see how you would do on it.

Peds is a traditionally DO friendly field, though, so I don't think this would hold up in other specialties (other than primary care).

 

[newbie04]

Taking the USMLE was the best decision I made--in fact, it was a life-changing decision and opened up many, many doors that I never thought it would. Well worth the time and effort.

Those that tell you not to take the USMLE or that tell you the COMLEX is sufficient have NO IDEA what they are talking about.

 

[Rollo]

So...I am not sure what the OP is going into, but from a Pediatrics stand point I have a little info.

I emailed a few programs because I only took COMLEX. Most said they like to see anywhere from 475-500 range or above for COMLEX, above 200 for USMLE. These were only a handful of ACGME programs in the Southeast that I emailed. Basically, they told me that if your COMLEX was below their cut-off, they wanted you to take USMLE to see how you would do on it.

Peds is a traditionally DO friendly field, though, so I don't think this would hold up in other specialties (other than primary care).

Peds is one of the least competitive specialties out there. All you need is a pulse and not be a pedophile in order to land a spot.

I still agree with your general sentiment that taking USMLE will undoubtedly open more doors, and let's face it, majority of M2s have no idea what they want to do so they might as well take the USMLE and leave open all possibilities.

 

[Vita]

Peds is one of the least competitive specialties out there. All you need is a pulse and not be a pedophile in order to land a spot.

I still agree with your general sentiment that taking USMLE will undoubtedly open more doors, and let's face it, majority of M2s have no idea what they want to do so they might as well take the USMLE and leave open all possibilities.

Along these lines, I have a quick piggy-back question: can a D.O. student take USMLE 2 without Step 1? I ask because back when I first started, I was interested in Peds or Family, and lots of docs (including MDs) told me not to take USMLE Step 1 because I could always take Step 2 if I changed my mind on specialty.

I just didn't know if that was possible, or if they were mistaken.

 

[scotchtapetest]

Along these lines, I have a quick piggy-back question: can a D.O. student take USMLE 2 without Step 1? I ask because back when I first started, I was interested in Peds or Family, and lots of docs (including MDs) told me not to take USMLE Step 1 because I could always take Step 2 if I changed my mind on specialty.

I just didn't know if that was possible, or if they were mistaken.

Yes, unlike COMLEX, you can just take step 2 and quite a few people do that.

HOWEVER, remember that MOST (not all) competitive programs will filter your application based on step 1 scores (i.e. no Step 1 = your application will not be reviewed)

 

[Vita]

Yes, unlike COMLEX, you can just take step 2 and quite a few people do that.

HOWEVER, remember that MOST (not all) competitive programs will filter your application based on step 1 scores (i.e. no Step 1 = your application will not be reviewed)

Thanks for the info! This is good for me to know b/c my boyfriend is applying to schools starting next year and is interested in Pathology or Neurology (among others). He doesn't know if he is going to an M.D. or D.O. school, but I mentioned that he might have to take two sets of boards if he goes D.O. Anyone know where those fields stand on COMLEX?

 

[scotchtapetest]

Thanks for the info! This is good for me to know b/c my boyfriend is applying to schools starting next year and is interested in Pathology or Neurology (among others). He doesn't know if he is going to an M.D. or D.O. school, but I mentioned that he might have to take two sets of boards if he goes D.O. Anyone know where those fields stand on COMLEX?

First of all it doesn't matter what pre-meds are interested in b/c they will change their minds a million times before graduating.

But since you asked, Pathology only requires a pulse (isn't that ironic).

Neurology depends on the place. If you want some really competitive place (e.g. ivy league schools) then you need USMLE. If you just want an average state Univ. or a community joint, then COMLEX is good enough.

 

[deleted245139]

First to address the stated USMLE cutoff:
Yes the "cutoff" is at 200, but that is the same as 2.5 GPA cutoff for medical school. There is NO way you will get an interview/match with a 200 the same way that there is no way to get an interview/acceptance with a 2.5 GPA (there is always exceptions for people with extraordinary circumstances like knowing the PD).

With regards to COMLEX cutoff:
There are some places that do not want DOs in their program. Which is fine (it's their loss). But you do not need a 600 to match to ACGME gas even at more competitive places than U of Mich. Also, with 600 at U of Mich. you will have SIGNIFICANTLY higher chance of matching/interviewing than with a 200 on the USMLE. So, I don't think they are equating 200 to a 600.

Didn't say that they equated the scores, I just reported the cutoff scores for consideration. the reasons are their own. This is why 1- it's important to research programs we consider carefully and have a good plan of attack when applying, and 2- to prepare for as many scenarios as possible as early as possible to be ready for the wide variety of requirements/cutoffs ect.