Programs who claim that everybody gets their choice of fellowships

[devildoc2]

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I'm calling BS on that.

CHOP takes like 30 peds people per year, and you and I both know that out of that crop of 30 there are going to be like 4-5 who want peds cards, 4-5 who wants peds GI, and 1-3 people who want the others.

CHOP probably takes 1 or 2 people max per year for peds cards. So you telling me that all 5 people are going to get their choice of peds cards? Thats crap.

I think there's a lot of self-selection and "under the table" deals going on here. The CHOP residents probably talk to the peds cards fellowship PD and he gives the best resident of that group the "thumbs up" and tells the rest of them that they will have to apply elsewhere.

 

[Cardsfan]

wow, one of the most ignorant posts i've ever seen on the peds board

 

[Bienchen]

wow, one of the most ignorant posts i've ever seen on the peds board

Wow, one of the most useless comments I have ever seen.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Perhaps we could discuss the contents of the actual post? Although we might agree or disagree with it, the points made are straight-forward.

I would note that the actual numbers of residents and especially fellows are not very accurate - CHOP has at least 20 cardiology fellows over 3 to 4 years. More importantly, as with any program, residency or fellowship, it is common to make claims about how well one's graduates do in the future. If these are interpreted as absolute promises, independent of the actual performance of the trainee, then this is not a reasonable interpretation.

Finally, as with all fellowship training programs, residents from that program who are well-liked and do well clinically would be encouraged to apply to that program and likely told that they will be considered very strongly. Applicants who are not as strong can reasonably be supported in looking nationally, especially since finding a fellowship in most fields in pedi isn't that competitive. The top ranked and largest children's hospitals might be competitive, but getting a fellowship is generally not too competitive in most areas. It is possible to become a great cardiologist, etc, after fellowship training in many places and a program that honestly evaluates the strengths of its residents and guides them to apply to where they are likely to match and do well is doing them a favor, not deceiving them.

 

[idealist22]

hi there. having gone to med school at penn (and doing at least 5 rotations at CHOP), being at children's boston for residency, and having matched to my first choice cardiology fellowship, i'd love to comment upon your speculations.

it is true that about 4-5 people per class at a large program like CHOP or boston tend to go into cardiology. my class of 39 people also has 4 people doing icu, 3-4 doing ED, 4 doing heme/onc, 2 doing GI (by the way, why did you assume that GI is so much more popular? i haven't really seen that at CHOP or boston), 2 doing endocrine, 2 doing ID, 3 doing allergy, etc. but there are also a large number of fellowship spots at this program and other top programs that our residents tend to gravitate to. although the ED match and non-anesthesia ICU match (2 in my class have already matched in critical care/anesthesia combined programs) haven't happened yet, so far, everyone else except for 1 person has matched at their top choice. in cardiology, all of us matched at our top choices (2 at boston, 2 at other programs). i don't know of anyone being advised to aim lower than their first choice. compare this to the national match stats for cardiology this year - 40% of applicants didn't even match. our hospital tends to keep its own; our cardiology program has a history of taking everyone from the residency class who wants to stay and is a reasonably good resident (which just about everyone here is). if anything, i felt pressured by our cards program to stay instead of going to another program. i still feel kind of guilty when i run into my cards attendings in the hospital. 🙂

the two only fields in our hospital that are known for not always having enough spots for everyone to stay are 1) ED and 2) rarely, heme/onc - they rejected someone from my class because they fast-tracked two pf our superstar md/phd interns into the fellowship program. but ED and heme/onc are difficult to get into everywhere, and our residents still do much better than the rest of the country in those matches.

your comments are based upon an incorrect assumption: getting one's first choice does not always mean staying at their home program for fellowship. not everybody will WANT to stay. as one progresses through training, other priorities like significant others/kids become more of a priority relative to program prestige. or there may be other fellowship programs that have better reputations in the field or are more suited to your academic/career goals. the vast majority of us haven't run into any trouble going to our first choice, whether it's at children's or otherwise. hope you find my descriptions of my personal experience helpful.

 

[westerly]

since finding a fellowship in most fields in pedi isn't that competitive. The top ranked and largest children's hospitals might be competitive, but getting a fellowship is generally not too competitive in most areas.

Really?

I'm a third year student, trying to evaluate where I want to take my career. I adore pediatrics, but mostly I love inpatient/specialities. I spent a month in an outpatient practice and was, well...kinda bored. If I was faced with an outpatient career, I would probably consider other non-peds fields to avoid it or at least, minimize it. Not that I'm trying to offend outpatient peds people...it's just not for me. (I have a hard time containing my rage against the non-vaccinating crowd.)

Anyway, is it really not that tough? I'm less concerned with the prestige of a place and more concerned with being able to do what I enjoy.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Really?

I'm a third year student, trying to evaluate where I want to take my career. I adore pediatrics, but mostly I love inpatient/specialities. I spent a month in an outpatient practice and was, well...kinda bored. If I was faced with an outpatient career, I would probably consider other non-peds fields to avoid it or at least, minimize it. Not that I'm trying to offend outpatient peds people...it's just not for me. (I have a hard time containing my rage against the non-vaccinating crowd.)

Anyway, is it really not that tough? I'm less concerned with the prestige of a place and more concerned with being able to do what I enjoy.

All depends on the field. As noted, some specialties and some places are competitive, others can't fill slots. There is a shortage of pedi specialists as is well documented. If you want to do an in-patient oriented fellowship, it is a safe bet that you will be able to do one as long as you match your interests with your skills and are reasonably flexible about location.

I went into my pedi residency quite sure I had no interest in doing general pedi. But, I would point out that you will do clinics during your residency and you will get training in general pediatrics. I enjoyed most of that (well, not adolescent medicine 👎), especially since it wasn't to be my career, just a part of my training.

 

[westerly]

All depends on the field. As noted, some specialties and some places are competitive, others can't fill slots. There is a shortage of pedi specialists as is well documented. If you want to do an in-patient oriented fellowship, it is a safe bet that you will be able to do one as long as you match your interests with your skills and are reasonably flexible about location.

I went into my pedi residency quite sure I had no interest in doing general pedi. But, I would point out that you will do clinics during your residency and you will get training in general pediatrics. I enjoyed most of that (well, not adolescent medicine 👎), especially since it wasn't to be my career, just a part of my training.

Ah yes, general pediatrics training...where my intern disappeared to on Wednesdays. I know it's something I'll have some involvement with, I just don't want it to be the lion's share of my week.

I feel better. Thanks muchly for the advice and info!

 

[Bernardo_11]

Westerly,

you would also have the option of being a general pediatrics hospitalist without any need to specialize. My friends that do this LOVE IT. Mainly because they work two weeks out of the month... but when they do.. ouch!! The hospitalist model is getting bigger and bigger, especially when more and more community pediatric docs are opting to not follow their paitents who are admitted.

Nardo