programs with multiple residents from own med school

[codK Kdoc]

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Hi, it's just a general question about residency programs. I have noticed the trend in various specialties that some residency programs have multiple residents coming from the medical school related to the program in question. I was wondering what might be the reason behind it? Do they favor own students? Or are they simply "less popular" among "external" applicants? Is there any general rule in this case?

Thanks!

 

[SocialistMD]

Hi, it's just a general question about residency programs. I have noticed the trend in various specialties that some residency programs have multiple residents coming from the medical school related to the program in question. I was wondering what might be the reason behind it? Do they favor own students? Or are they simply "less popular" among "external" applicants? Is there any general rule in this case?

Thanks!

Some people simply like the comfort of home. That goes for residents as well as program directors. If two applicants are fairly equal on paper, who would you take, the person you had on your service for a month or someone you met for 4 hours at a time where s/he should be on her/his best behavior?

Likewise, some applicants tend to stay where they are happy and know what to expect as a resident first hand instead of taking a chance at moving to a place that seems nice for 4 hours, but that they really don't know. Look in any of the specialty forums right now to see how distrustful applicants are of programs they visit.

 

[thedrjojo]

I looked at programs that had none of their own medical students as a red flag... if the medical students from the school didn't want to stay, there must be something wrong with the program. I also looked at programs that had majority of their own students as a red flag (like, 3 of 6, 4 of 7...) because then that means my chances of getting in were also less.

As a student highly considering staying at my home program, my thought process is very much like socialistMD stated. I know fairly exactly what I am going to get... I spent 6 weeks as a MS3 and 12 weeks as an MS4 (with 2 more weeks coming up) working with these residents and attendings. I know the strengths, weaknesses, what stuff the residents complain about, what they really enjoy. All the other places are big unknowns, and with dedicating 5-7 years at a place, how much can I trust it? I did an away at another program, and that gave me good insight into it, and plan on ranking that one as 1 or 2 as well, so I might be just getting paranoid, but then again, I did a second look at a place that was ranked #1 in my mind and that dropped it nearly off my list...

So, 0 home students in entire program, bad... up to 1-2 a year, good, more than that, badish.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Generally agree with the thoughts above.

If no one is staying on at their home program, that is a pretty significant red flag. In those cases I would usually try to talk to a 4th year from the school and ask what was up (either at that interview day or another).

If tons of people are staying on, it means the program is a little inbred and also means my chances may not be great.

I think the balance is somewhere in the middle.

 

[gutonc]

So, 0 home students in entire program, bad... up to 1-2 a year, good, more than that, badish.

Agreed (although I would express it as a percentage of the class rather than an absolute number). My program has 30-35 interns a year and takes about 5 or 6 from the med school.

No locals means that those applicants who are most familiar with a program won't touch it with a 10 foot pole...bad news.

 

[codK Kdoc]

Thanks! My thoughts were pretty similar, so it's great to hear I am not imagining something that isn't there... Good luck to all of you currently in the application process! For me it's another year...

 

[thedrjojo]

Agreed (although I would express it as a percentage of the class rather than an absolute number). My program has 30-35 interns a year and takes about 5 or 6 from the med school.

No locals means that those applicants who are most familiar with a program won't touch it with a 10 foot pole...bad news.

Yeah, sorry about that, I am looking at a specialty (Gen Surg) where class sizes are anywhere from like 5 to 10, so 1-2 is roughly the same as 5-10 from a class of 30ish, but glad to see my point was well taken

 

[Rendar5]

I was a bit concerned about my program when I saw that 5 of the 10 interns were homegrown when I got my acceptance which had not happened in past years. I got here and am very happy with it. So take a look at all the years to see if it's a trend or an aberration

 

[codK Kdoc]

When choosing a residency spot there are so many factors to consider! Sometimes it's just hard to determine whether a certain factor is positive or negative in our given situation, so thanks for shedding some light on the matter!

 

[Arcan57]

No homegrown residents may also reflect a weak med school and a strong residency. I imagine that's less common then the above mentioned scenarios however.

 

[Law2Doc]

No homegrown residents may also reflect a weak med school and a strong residency. I imagine that's less common then the above mentioned scenarios however.

Not really. Even at the weakest of med schools there will be very strong med students at the top. There is simply no US allo med school that is that weak anyhow -- all are suitable launching pads for any specialty and the best of each tend to be strong applicants nationally. And since most residencies at least give a courtesy interview to their home med school students who wants one, most home grown folks have the opportunity to rank their home program. So not ending up with any homegrown folks almost always reflects bad on the residency and not the other way round - it means people didn't want to come.

 

[Apollyon]

Duke IM and surgery are heavily Duke Med grad filled. My program was new, and it was a mission for my PD to get a Duke grad as an EM resident. Duke Med sent a few residents every year into EM (even as students were poisoned against it by IM and surgery - IM more than surg - MFing EM). She left without doing it. A new PD came in, though, and now there are several Dukies that are EM residents.

It's a strong med school, combined with strong residency programs. There was quite a cross-current between UNC-Chapel Hill and Duke students going to the other for residency.

 

[SocialistMD]

There was quite a cross-current between UNC-Chapel Hill and Duke students going to the other for residency.

That borders on sacrilege, doesn't it?.

 

[Apollyon]

That borders on sacrilege, doesn't it?.

You would think. I heard more about "Duke blue vs. faded blue" than anyone ever should in one life.

 

[QofQuimica]

I see that kind of internal recruitment as more of a positive than a negative for all the reasons people mentioned already. OP, if you're thinking you might want to go to a program that heavily recruits its own students and where you don't have an "in", why not apply for an away there and see how it works out? No program that I've ever seen takes only its own med students, so obviously some outside people must have had what that program wanted. Along the same lines as the argument about going with the evil you know, a program that likes to recruit internally would probably prefer a former visiting rotator outside applicant over a completely unknown outside applicant.

 

[codK Kdoc]

I see that kind of internal recruitment as more of a positive than a negative for all the reasons people mentioned already. OP, if you're thinking you might want to go to a program that heavily recruits its own students and where you don't have an "in", why not apply for an away there and see how it works out? No program that I've ever seen takes only its own med students, so obviously some outside people must have had what that program wanted. Along the same lines as the argument about going with the evil you know, a program that likes to recruit internally would probably prefer a former visiting rotator outside applicant over a completely unknown outside applicant.

Thanks!

It was more of a general question. I have been wondering what the reasons were behind such trends.

 

[tkim]

A new PD came in, though, and now there are several Dukies that are EM residents.

'Dukie' ...

 

[Apollyon]

'Dukie' ...

Intentional, and not rare to hear.

 

[tkim]

Intentional, and not rare to hear.

I know. Just had to be said.

 

[Curious Biff]

Good points made here. A lot of people stay in their "home" institution for family reasons, convenience, because it's a good program, etc. Look at the Indiana University anesthesiology program. They pretty much exclusively pick from their own flock. Guess they figure that people who are already there won't balk at the prospects of having to live in Indiana (haha - okay, just kidding... slightly).

Biff