Programs with the Short Coat

Discussion in 'Internal Medicine and IM Subspecialties' started by DrHeartMD, Nov 17, 2005.

  1. DrHeartMD

    DrHeartMD Senior Member
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    Hey guys,

    I have heard some programs still require the short coat for interns. Can anyone confirm this? Can someone say which programs require this. May not be the most important thing, but hey, if you are choosing between two places and can't decide, even the short coat makes a difference :)

    thanks

    J
     
  2. quidnunc

    quidnunc Senior Member
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    I heard Hopkins and one of the NY schools does/did make interns wear the "small" white coats.
     
  3. mellow yellow

    mellow yellow Member
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    IM residents at UCSF wear the short coat for all three years...
     
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  4. DrHeartMD

    DrHeartMD Senior Member
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    which ny school?

    and that's it...ucsf is out (well they haven't invited me so far anyway hehe)
     
  5. phllystyl

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    everyone still wears the short white coats at MGH, even fellows.
     
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  6. quidnunc

    quidnunc Senior Member
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    Dunno which NY school, but I think it's NYU (based on what an intern told me - someone care to clarify?). Can't believe you still wear it as a Fellow (MGH) or during all three years at UCSF! :eek: You'd think you'd earn it after scut monkey hell intern year
     
  7. BigBadBix

    BigBadBix Senior Member
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    I remember hearing that it's a short white coat at Duke as well. Not sure if it's just as an intern or all three years. Anybody know if that's true?

    Even though I know that shouldn't be important, I will still be sad if I end up at a place with short coats. They are so unflattering, especially if you are short like me.
     
  8. Mumpu

    Mumpu Burninator, MD
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    Short coat is a deal killer. AFAIK none of the places I'm looking have them but I won't rank anyone who does. I also heard at some places the attendings wear short coats as well because they are "students for life."

    I didn't go to Evil Medical School for four years to be called "Mister," thankyouverymuch.
     
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  9. DrHeartMD

    DrHeartMD Senior Member
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    I totally think it's important...I hate the short white coat...in fact I purchased an oversized short white coat just so that it looks a little bit longer...I know it's sad, but come on...I agree, 4 yrs of med school, and I think I have earned the right to own a long white coat...

    This MGH thing is pretty sad...but in the pics at the website they have lots of people wearing longer white coats...I will need some confirmation on that...hrmf
     
  10. dukeblue01

    dukeblue01 Senior Member
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    Brigham IM residents also sport the short white coat for 3 years. Thats nice. Good to know if I go to a top program I get to wait until fellowship for the long white coat...or if at MGH, basically I never wear a long white coat.
     
  11. Zolpidem25

    Zolpidem25 Senior Member
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    having to wear a short coat is definitely a tie-breaking point for me.... i am so sick and tired of my short coat. i want to play with the big boys, damn it.
     
  12. souljah1

    souljah1 Attending
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    UCSF has moved to long coats. I just saw some R2's I know who said that they are all rocking long coats now. I'm not sure if the interns have gotten them as well. I think the transition is now away from the long coat.

    It is true that MGH, BWH, and Hopkins rock the short coat as far as I know.
     
  13. Zolpidem25

    Zolpidem25 Senior Member
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    :laugh:

    whether you rock short or rock long -- its best that you rock....

    :D
     
  14. DrHeartMD

    DrHeartMD Senior Member
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    I'd rather go coatless...the short coat is the ultimate insult...it's like saying, here is something that makes you look like a doctor, but blatantly tells everyone you are no such thing...why don't they just piss all over me and call it orientation
     
  15. phllystyl

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    hehehe im confirmin MGH, ive seen it myself ladies and gents.

    But seriosly, it doesnt really bother me. If everyone is wearin the short coats except for attendings, who cares. Your coat says MD on it by your name. Isn't that what really matters?
     
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  16. avmd06

    avmd06 New Member

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    I did an away elective at Hopkins, the interns wear the dreaded short white coat...but the residents had long coats.
     
  17. BStein76

    BStein76 Senior Member
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    I agree, I am not as worried about short white coats since it sounds like multiple IM residencies seem to have similar standards. I have already spent almost 4 years being the Sanford guide/Tarascon Pharmacopia/tongue depressor b**ch. It is a little funny when you look at the websites of some these programs when they show residents; the pictures are always cut off at the waist (feels like some Photoshopping has been done).
     
  18. phatfarm

    phatfarm Member
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    Yeah, I'm not as worried about the short coat. It would be nice to wear a long one though, having it flutter in the wind as you race down the hall to a code, hoping you are not the 1st one in there...

    Sorry, went off into a dream sequence there...

    It's not so bad sporting the "shortie" when your attending is doing the same. Will definitely keep my ego in check! :D
     
  19. BStein76

    BStein76 Senior Member
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    Or tripping on it as you race from stairwell to stairwell looking for the code. Some of the hospital buildings that are connected together are sometimes weird (i.e. the 3rd floor of one building connects to the 4th or 2nd floor of an adjacent building).
     
  20. Dr. Corday

    Dr. Corday Member
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    Duke IM interns do wear short white coats. IM residents wear long coats.

    Duke surgery interns wear white pants in addition to their short white coats. Duke first year surgery residents don't wear the white pants but still the short white coat. Only in third year of surgery do they wear long white coats :cool:
     
  21. orientedtoself

    orientedtoself resident
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    That is a serious hierarchy. I don't think I'd want to be someplace that hierarchical. I think the whole point of a short white coat is to show people that you are at the bottom of the ladder, and have the least knowledge. Like you need to keep getting reminded of that.
     
  22. DrHeartMD

    DrHeartMD Senior Member
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    as I said before...just go ahead and defecate on me...I am pretty sure that is the same as the "shortie", or at least what the shortie stands for...it basically is a means of keeping me down...too bad we dont have the power to rise against the "Man" :)
     
  23. lurkerboy

    lurkerboy exhalted mystic ruler
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    NYU residents don't wear short coats. Even the NYU sub-i's wear long white coats.

    In Boston: all MGH residents and even many attendings wear short white coats. Its interesting at MGH because everyone in all departments look the same. And forget about figuring out what level they're at based on their apparent age.... the med students are sometimes older than the attendings!

    At Brigham and BI, only the medical interns/residents wear short white coats. The psych/neuro/ED/surgery residents at Brigham and BI wear long white coats.

    I don't mind the short white coat. I wore a long coat as a sub-i and it was overrated. Now as a resident, we hardly wear any coat. The short coats are great for the interns because our style of coat have enormous pockets (even a pocket on the insides). plenty of room for papers, stethescope, snacks, etc.
     
  24. AJM

    AJM SDN Moderator
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    I'm confirmin MGH, too. Everyone wears the short coats there. For fellows the short coat is "optional", but at least in the medical subspecialties fellows who wear long coats are actively made fun of by their attendings. So almost all the fellows wear short coats, as do most of the older-school attendings (and even many of the younger attgs)

    It's not that bad, though -- especially when you see the chair of the MGH department of medicine walking around in a short coat -- doesn't feel so much like a hierarchy. :cool:
     
  25. ucla2usc

    ucla2usc Senior Member
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    Stanford med students wear the long coat....i know it shouldn't, but it just irritates me to see a person with that same stupid look on their face I had just last year, yet sporting the long coat like they actually earned it by their MCAT or something. i hate my short coat, but i respect why i wear it...haven't quite earned the last 20 inches or so. now on the other respect, if i get stuck wearing the short coat next year...that'll be the sweet irony when some attending thinks i haven't quite earned the long coat yet. besides, guys just look stupid in short coats, anyone else agree? maybe if everyone wears the same length at every program and every level, we'd all just get along.
     
  26. Duke_David

    Duke_David Junior Member
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    This is awesome. I'm glad the obsessive concern about the length of the coat keeps out so many applicants. It is extremely helpful. IF it's correlated with other stupid considerations that have nothing to do with the quality of your training and experience, it leaves us with a higher percentage of folks who will be here for the right reasons.
     
  27. Zolpidem25

    Zolpidem25 Senior Member
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    yes, that's it! it's not only that the short coat leaves you at the bottom of the food chain in terms of knowledge/skill. it's also the fact that guys in particular just look outright silly in the short coat. its not aesthetically pleasing at all... its a uniform that doesn't quite fit right. it would be like wearing pants to work that only come down to your mid-calf. this is especially a problem if you're a big guy... like someone who is say 6'3'', 220 lbs. stuck in a little short coat, looking like a buffoon.

    i don't care about old traditions.... doctors wear LONG white coats. long, as in, down to the knee at the least. there is something to be said for elegance. this is supposed to be the noblest of professions. i'm not asking for a freaking tunic, just let me feel good about what i'm wearing.
     
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  28. avmd06

    avmd06 New Member

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    well these days every where you turn, medical staff is wearing the long white coat... the physical therapists, the nutritionists, the case managers, nurse managers, PA's, NP's, respiratory services and i have even seen food service workers sporting the long coats! I think the prestige of the 'white coat' isn't what it used to be and yes, we deserve to wear the long coats but in the end as long as our name badge says 'MD' or u have 'MD' written on your coat, it doesn't really matter....
     
  29. Gharfunkle

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    and attendings many as well, except for the orthopaedic attendings for some reason.
     
  30. PickyBicky

    PickyBicky Senior Member
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    Pockets: this is really a key issue. Word on the street is that although Hopkins interns wear it short, the pockets are way more functional than MS coats. The pocket status at MGH, Brigham, elsewhere I'm not sure of. Anyone have the word?

    There is something about having to pay your dues.....something to look foward to. I like the idea of tradition, as well. Internship.....its a tradition, a right of passage, and gosh darn it something to look foward to making it through. I personally have no quams about the short coat......as long as the long coat is waiting for me on July 1, 2007!



    -PB.
     
  31. PickyBicky

    PickyBicky Senior Member
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    There is something about having to pay your dues.....
    -PB.[/QUOTE]

    And don't pull the old "I made it through med school, I paid my dues already, literally and figuratively." I'm talkin' really paying your dues.....like Q3-->4 overnight x 1 year!

    -PB
     
  32. orientedtoself

    orientedtoself resident
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    I think alot of how you view the short coats has to do with where you trained. If you're used to seeing interns in long coats, it's a shock to see them in short ones, but if you're used to seeing everyone sporting shorties, it's no big deal. Acculturation.
     
  33. BStein76

    BStein76 Senior Member
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    I am not so concerned about wearing a short coat as long as it does not represent an "good old boy attitude" about medicine. If a program that requires interns/residents to wear short white coats out of tradition, then that is fine; it doesn't really matter to me. However if it is a reflection of "old school attitudes" such as "Do you really want maternity leave for pregnancy" or "You should think twice about being pregnant during residency/fellowship", then I think the matter becomes more important.
     
  34. dukeblue01

    dukeblue01 Senior Member
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    Picky,
    Brigham's short coats have pockets that are very similar to MS coats. The only benefit at Brigham is that they have a laundry service where you receive 1-2 short coats and can turn them in any time for a new clean short coat with the Brigham logo on it. You do not have your name embroidered on it, but instead a plastic name tag that pins to your coat. The fellows and attendings can get long coats with their name embroidered on it.

    DB
     
  35. PickyBicky

    PickyBicky Senior Member
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    Okay....the name on the coat is where I draw the line. AT LEAST GIVE ME THAT, MY NAME ON MY OWN COAT!

    Short Vs. Long, I'd be more pressed to say I want my name on my coat(s).....PB, MD.

    -PB
     
  36. BStein76

    BStein76 Senior Member
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    If they have your name on it how are they going to reuse it for the next set of residents? I like the federal VA scrubs where it says "Property of VA" which refers to the person wearing the scrubs...
     
  37. Zolpidem25

    Zolpidem25 Senior Member
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    lol :laugh:
     
  38. GopherBrain

    GopherBrain MARK IT ZERO!!
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    I'm happy to say that I am a UCSF medicine R1, and I picked up my new long white coat in the resident office three days ago. The short coat is dead. However, only about 10-20% of residents at UCSF wear a white coat at all, and I doubt that adding an extra 18 inches of cloth will change that.
     
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  39. MacGyver

    MacGyver Membership Revoked
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    Somebody else said it above and nailed it, so I will repeat.

    NO WHITE COAT AT ALL IS BETTER THAN THAT STUPID SHORT WHITE COAT.

    Rule #1: Everybody and their brother wears a long white coat. It means absolutely nothing in terms of what you do in the hospital. ****ing janitors wear long white coats these days.

    Rule #2: The only possible purpose of wearing a SHORT white coat is to signify that you are an "underling" in the hospital pecking order.

    Conclusion: the short white coat is basically an insult. Wearning no coat at all is much more respectable than wearing the short piece of ****.
     
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  40. Mumpu

    Mumpu Burninator, MD
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    Where do you stuff the Twinkies if you don't have a white coat? :eek:
     
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  41. ucla2usc

    ucla2usc Senior Member
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    I cannot express how relieving that is...it was killing me to think of wearing that dorky short coat for 3 more years...and no it wouldn't have influenced my decision, but i was still annoyed when I was at UCSF and saw R3's with shorties.
     
  42. Ice-1

    Ice-1 Senior Member
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    Hear, hear! I'm totally sick of my shorty when PA's, nurses, phlebotomists and everyone else doesn't have to put up with this nonsense.
     
  43. ramonaquimby

    ramonaquimby I'm a PGY3?! WHAT?!
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    when i did a one month rotation at Oschner (in New Orleans), the senior medical students, interns, adn residents wore long coats which i thought was so cool...i was taken aback when i realized the attendings wore short coats! :laugh:
     
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  44. Adcadet

    Adcadet Long way from Gate 27
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    I wonder if the older attendings at MGH and other places gave up their long coats so they could make the students/interns/residents feel better. I rosey idea, I wonder if this is where it came from. And now everybody is stuck with shorties.
     
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  45. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner Member
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    So at the short white coat programs do you think that during orientation they just pass out your diminutive coat and go on about their business? Or does someone say, "I don't want to see any of you peons wearing this long coat like Big Daddy has!" Or do some interns dare to wear the long coat only to have a group of attendings tackle them in the hall and cut it short?

    When is this going to change people?? Please promise that when some of you are PDs some day that you'll put an end to the practice...
     
  46. inositide

    inositide Senior Member
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    that's hilarious at ochner in new orleans. The senior students, interns, and residents wear long coats and the attendings wear short coats! That is very strange. It just goes to show that the whole short coat, long coat thing is screwed up. If anyone has to wear a short it should be 1st,2nd,3rd year students. Sub-interns and upwards should all wear long coats.
     
  47. Duke_David

    Duke_David Junior Member
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    I go out of my way to teach and spend extra time explaining things to those medical students and housestaff in the short white coat. If they don't like that, well tough. I expect those in the long white coat to teach me, and if they too readily agree with me or pretend to know more than they do, I don't like that. You see it's not about the coat, it's about the content of my discussions with the person wearing a coat. I try not to wear a coat at all, but I do wear my name tag. You people just totally need to get over the coat thing. It is the most irrelevant worry I can think of.
     
  48. mytirf

    mytirf Junior Member
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    I completely agree and frankly can't believe that there is an entire forum with two full pages of responses arguing about the length of the stupid white coat. I personally think the thing is stupid and pockets or no pockets all you really need to be a good doc is your stethoscope, one pocket reference and a good head on your shoulders, everything else is just useless. So for me I assume drop the coat all together, and fill my head with knowledge rather than my pockets full of pointless crap.

    -Evanescent
     
  49. GopherBrain

    GopherBrain MARK IT ZERO!!
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    Good for you Dr. Osler. I didn't realize that wearing a coat was in impediment to "fill(ing) my head with knowledge". Ironically, some of you no-coat types seem to have stronger feelings about this issue that either the short or long coat people. Did you have a bad experience with a coat as a child?
     
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  50. atsai3

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