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[hyperalgesia]

fwiw, the reason the US had to withdraw is because of the untenable deal that trump made with the taliban, which effectively neutered that afghan administration. the deal stated that withdrawal was to have taken place by May 1, not August 16.

with that horrible "deal", the US was essentially forced to withdraw, or face international criticism for reneging on their word.



April 18, 2021 on X:
View attachment 390070

Timeline of U.S. Withdrawal from Afghanistan - FactCheck.org

We lay out many of the key diplomatic decisions, military actions, presidential pronouncements and expert assessments of the withdrawal agreement that ended the U.S. military's 20-year war in Afghanistan.

www.factcheck.org

so trump knew the afghan government would not last, and yet he still sold them out.

It's just pathetic that you are blaming Trump for Biden's catastrophic evacuation from Afghanistan that left American troops and Afghan allies dead and left billions of treasure behind.

The only good thing to happen with this administration is it's acknowledgement of incompetence in the form of not running for office again.

It's in interesting MO by the way - come to office, do a lot of damage, and then "pass the torch" before facing accountability at the ballot box.

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[Baron Samedi]

It's just pathetic that you are blaming Trump for Biden's catastrophic evacuation from Afghanistan that left American troops and Afghan allies dead and left billions of treasure behind.

Afghanistan was always a hopelessly lost cause.

🤔

 

[hyperalgesia]

🤔

Both statements are as true today as when I made them.

Withdrawing from Afghanistan was the right call. The bungled way in which the evacuation was executed betrays a level of incompetence that is historically impressive. And it's 100% owned by the Biden Admin. I honestly would not even pin that disaster on Kamala. But she is part of the Admin, supports the Admin, even supported Biden until the end so...

 

[Baron Samedi]

Both statements are as true today as when I made them.

Withdrawing from Afghanistan was the right call. The bungled way in which the evacuation was executed betrays a level of incompetence that is historically impressive. And it's 100% owned by the Biden Admin. I honestly would not even pin that disaster on Kamala. But she is part of the Admin, supports the Admin, even supported Biden until the end so...

Trump ordered rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan after election loss

The memo was among the latest revelations from the congressional committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol building.

www.militarytimes.com

 

[Doctodd]

Trump ordered rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan after election loss

The memo was among the latest revelations from the congressional committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol building.

www.militarytimes.com

So where is this “smoking gun” signed order by Trump? The rest of the article is not believable and a typical Trump hit piece like Russian collusion.

 

[Baron Samedi]

So where is this “smoking gun” signed order by Trump? The rest of the article is not believable and a typical Trump hit piece like Russian collusion.

He literally announced it on Twitter in 2020.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Trump ordered rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan after election loss

The memo was among the latest revelations from the congressional committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol building.

www.militarytimes.com

So, as Adam Kinzinger tells it, Trump's DOD refused to carry out his insane order. But when Biden made the same order more than a year later, his DOD jumped all over it and committed one of the most egregious acts of military malpractice in modern history.

That is your argument to excuse Biden?

 

[SSdoc33]

Hyperalgesia is being embarrassed by a more knowledgeable veteran

 

[Ducttape]

ahh yes. remain in mexico. that so effective trump policy that forced 68,000 out of what, a couple million or so mexicans go back across the border.

fwiw, biden attempted to end it in February 2021, not Jan 20th, so technically not on day 1. and yet the program "enrolled" 11,500 asylum seekers (1/6 of the total number) between Feb 19 to May 25 of 2021.

and it got messy with federal court and supreme court getting involved.

it was not officially completely ended until 2023.

===

the big difference is that remain in mexico was a US policy. it was not a signed US treaty with a foreign nation or power like the taliban.

 

[Doctodd]

He literally announced it on Twitter in 2020.

so no signed order anymore? There's no debate about that we were getting out of Afghanistan. The debate is about how we were getting out. Remember Biden said on live TV that the Taliban would not return to power. That was obviously not true.

 

[Baron Samedi]

so no signed order anymore? There's no debate about that we were getting out of Afghanistan. The debate is about how we were getting out. Remember Biden said on live TV that the Taliban would not return to power. That was obviously not true.

I'm by no means defending Biden or his actions, I'm simply pointing out hypocrisy. For a lot of people, actions don't matter as much as who is doing them.

 

[Ducttape]

So, as Adam Kinzinger tells it, Trump's DOD refused to carry out his insane order. But when Biden made the same order more than a year later, his DOD jumped all over it and committed one of the most egregious acts of military malpractice in modern history.

That is your argument to excuse Biden?

um, it was the same military commander from trump to biden.

Mark Milley.

he disagreed with completely pulling out of afghanistan but the process was not rushed like trumps plan. thats the difference.



and say what you want. the 13 servicemen killed were not killed by the taliban.


or maybe you forgot about that. they were killed by a suicide bomber from a different terrorist group.

 

[Doctodd]

um, it was the same military commander from trump to biden.

Mark Milley.

he disagreed with completely pulling out of afghanistan but the process was not rushed like trumps plan. thats the difference.



and say what you want. the 13 servicemen killed were not killed by the taliban.


or maybe you forgot about that. they were killed by a suicide bomber from a different terrorist group.

If there’s a signed order then this conversation can be put to rest. But otherwise it’s just hearsay and evidence that isnt credible. So you’re saying Milley disagreed with Trump but didn’t disagree with Biden? That makes no sense. This is just like that Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson movie where he’s a colonel in Guantanamo Bay. Why would he not obey a direct order from one guy and not the other? Because you can’t handle the truth lol

 

[Baron Samedi]

If there’s a signed order then this conversation can be put to rest. But otherwise it’s just hearsay and evidence that isnt credible. So you’re saying Milley disagreed with Trump but didn’t disagree with Biden? That makes no sense. This is just like that Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson movie where he’s a colonel in Guantanamo Bay. Why would he not obey a direct order from one guy and not the other? Because you can’t handle the truth lol

Trump signed order for immediate 'large-scale troop withdrawals' from Afghanistan after election loss

Top officials, including the national security advisor and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, panned the order in interviews with Jan. 6 investigators.

www.yahoo.com

He signed an order on Nov 11, 2020.

He also released a statement that he wanted an even faster withdrawal than what Biden was planning for.

 

[lobelsteve]

ahh yes. remain in mexico. that so effective trump policy that forced 68,000 out of what, a couple million or so mexicans go back across the border.

fwiw, biden attempted to end it in February 2021, not Jan 20th, so technically not on day 1. and yet the program "enrolled" 11,500 asylum seekers (1/6 of the total number) between Feb 19 to May 25 of 2021.

and it got messy with federal court and supreme court getting involved.

it was not officially completely ended until 2023.

===

the big difference is that remain in mexico was a US policy. it was not a signed US treaty with a foreign nation or power like the taliban.

Mexico does nothing to help us.
I think we should take their southern border and build a military base on it. Then seal the southern border.

 

[Doctodd]

Trump signed order for immediate 'large-scale troop withdrawals' from Afghanistan after election loss

Top officials, including the national security advisor and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, panned the order in interviews with Jan. 6 investigators.

www.yahoo.com

He signed an order on Nov 11, 2020.

He also released a statement that he wanted an even faster withdrawal than what Biden was planning for.

I guess I should’ve been more specific in saying that where is the signed order to abandon everything including the airbase? We all know that he wanted to get out, but he and other witnesses have said there were specific conditions, including keeping a small force at the airbase/airport. The story goes that when Trump met with the Taliban, he showed them a picture of their home and said he’d kill them if they didn’t keep their agreement.

It’s moot because he wasn’t the president anymore and Biden had control of what went down.

 

[Doctodd]

and say what you want. the 13 servicemen killed were not killed by the taliban.


or maybe you forgot about that. they were killed by a suicide bomber from a different terrorist group.

13 Servicemen were killed because of the chaos. Thousands and thousands of Afghan interpreters and facilitators were hunted down and killed after Biden abandoned them.

 

[Baron Samedi]

I guess I should’ve been more specific in saying that where is the signed order to abandon everything including the airbase? We all know that he wanted to get out, but he and other witnesses have said there were specific conditions, including keeping a small force at the airbase/airport. The story goes that when Trump met with the Taliban, he showed them a picture of their home and said he’d kill them if they didn’t keep their agreement.

It’s moot because he wasn’t the president anymore and Biden had control of what went down.

The signed order was on Nov 11th 2020 and I'm sure you could file a FOIA request if you wanted to read it in detail.

But I suspect it won't matter and the goalposts will just continue shifting.

 

[Doctodd]

The signed order was on Nov 11th 2020 and I'm sure you could file a FOIA request if you wanted to read it in detail.

But I suspect it won't matter and the goalposts will just continue shifting.

the goal post is now named Harris, so yea it's moot.

 

[Ducttape]

classic.

loses the argument multiple times but keeps changing the goalposts to try to justify his failed argument.


fwiw, during trumps time there were multiple instances of the taliban completely violating the treaty that trump ignored/chose not to act upon.

 

[Doctodd]

classic.

loses the argument multiple times but keeps changing the goalposts to try to justify his failed argument.


fwiw, during trumps time there were multiple instances of the taliban completely violating the treaty that trump ignored/chose not to act upon.

yea ok lol.....funny you should say that because i watched this AM......and ill post it for you since you dont remember.....Biden pulled out, not Trump, and Biden is gone, so it's moot.