"Provider"

[cbrons]

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Recently our hospital changed in epic where it listed "Attending Physician": Dr. So and So. And "Consulting Physician": Dr. So and So.

Now the IT people changed it to "Attending PROVIDER" and "Consulting PROVIDER" and "Admitting PROVIDER".

Seems like a huge slap in the face and another big step down the road to full mid-level autonomy.
Has this happened at a medical clinic or hospital near you? Your opinions plz.
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Update: JAMA Article from May 3, 2016
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2506307

Eliminating the Term Primary Care “Provider”
Consequences of Language for the Future of Primary Care

Allan H. Goroll, MD
Division of General Internal Medicine
Massachusetts General Hospital
Harvard Medical School
15 Parkman St, Ste 645
Boston, MA 02114

Excerpt:
From the patient’s perspective, getting to the right primary care team member becomes problematic if all practitioners are indistinguishably designated as “providers,” which implies they are interchangeable. The term obscures their differences in depth and breadth of training, knowledge, and clinical experience as well as the particular and often unique contributions they make to a team-based effort.

 

[Mad Jack]

I mean, honestly it does make a lot of sense. A lot of the time in our hospital we'd have patients that were under the care of podiatry (we had a lot of podiatry admits), dentistry (for surgical procedures), nurse practitioners, or physician assistants (the latter two in the ED) as their primary. Provider actually just makes sense, as many people simply didn't have a licensed physician as the person primarily providing and directing their care.

 

[Ismet]

Agree with @Mad Jack. It makes sense. This is more a matter of making things less confusing (i.e. if it's an NP's patient, the NP is the provider, but the NP is not the attending physician) than a matter of a slippery slope towards mid-levels "taking over." Don't be so bitter and quick to belittle the IT people, I guarantee you that it wasn't their decision to make.

 

[Silmaril]

NPs, PAs, etc. are here for the long term. There needs to be some way to refer to the consulting/admitting/attending "person with prescriptive/diagnostic authority" without calling them all physicians, but also to include all of them in the same general pool for those roles. On the other hand, isn't the MD/DO always the attending? I guess if you are in a state where NPs are autonomous or dentists are attending patients' cases then you need to call them providers. But maybe the IT people could have kept the "attending physician" label in the chart.

Why is this such a huge slap in the face, if I may ask? Healthcare will always need the MDs, but it can run more smoothly and patients will receive care more efficiently with more HCPs.

 

[WingedOx]

Man, even a Jezebel blogger would look at this thread and think "wow, it must be hard going around looking for things to be offended about"

edit: Dammit, I missed a chance to make a "microaggression" joke. Oh well, I'll get it next time.

 

[W19]

They don't have admitting privilege in my state... In fact, there is a hospital I used to work at that took away NP/PA physician parking and lounge privilege...

 

[axiomofchoice]

This won't end. NPs are cheaper. People making legislation don't know how to read a scientific study - so it doesn't matter what these studies show. This in not a matter of NPs becoming independent (which will almost certainly happen), or NP reimbursement rising to meet that of physicians. Ultimately, physician reimbursement will DROP to that of the midlevel. "Providers" will be scheduled interchangeably by the institutions that employ them. The american public will sit back and take it.

Not interested? - Become a surgeon.....

 

[oncology2020]

Seriously? Some of you guys really don't think this is a big issue? MDs, NPs, PAs will now all be classified as providers further confusing the patient about who is the actual physician--this is a gain for midlevels, it does not help us in any way. This is a national trend being driven by hospital administrators and midlevels. This is like a medical student calling herself a "doctor in training" instead of just saying what they really are a "medical student" or a nurse with a PhD calling herself a "doctor" in a clinical setting or a PharmD introducing himself as a "doctor" to a patient without providing further clarification--its highly ambiguous and in a way deceives the patient.

As evidenced by the apathy and disregard by people on such threads, we really need leadership tracks that feed physicians into positions of lesdership instead of having MBAs or NPs (nurses have such tracks) hold leadership positions in the hospital, otherwise they will continue to take from our field without any opposition. Check out the links below

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/the-provider-will-see-you-now/

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/10/why-we-need-to-stop-calling-physicians-providers.html

 

[W19]

Physicians always have to comply with demands of other groups... Will not renew my AMA membership. This organization is useless!

 

[WingedOx]

This is like a medical student calling herself a "doctor in training" instead of just saying what they really are a "medical student" or a nurse with a PhD calling herself a "doctor" in a clinical setting or a PharmD introducing himself as a "doctor" to a patient without providing further clarification--its highly ambiguous and in a way deceives the patient.

Actually, with THIS, I strongly agree with you, but that's more often than not an issue of the professionalism of individual providers rather than a systemic issue. One should ALWAYS introduce themselves with their full role to patients. Anything else is a violation of patient autonomy. The problem is this behavior is a hard thing to enforce.

/yes, I REALLY hate the term "student doctor"

 

[Ismet]

Seriously? Some of you guys really don't think this is a big issue? MDs, NPs, PAs will now all be classified as providers further confusing the patient about who is the actual physician--this is a gain for midlevels, it does not help us in any way. This is a national trend being driven by hospital administrators and midlevels. This is like a medical student calling herself a "doctor in training" instead of just saying what they really are a "medical student" or a nurse with a PhD calling herself a "doctor" in a clinical setting or a PharmD introducing himself as a "doctor" to a patient without providing further clarification--its highly ambiguous and in a way deceives the patient.

They are providers, they are not physicians. This is just referring to the EMR, which originally just had "attending physician" and "consulting physician." If an NP, who is providing care for a patient and presumably disclosing (as they are supposed to) that they are an NP, writes a note in the system, it would be more confusing and more misleading to put their name in the Attending Physician spot, even though they are the provider for the case. Maybe there should be a spot for physician AND a separate spot for mid-level provider. Perhaps give that feedback.

I agree with you about introducing yourself in the proper way, but I see this as a completely separate issue than what a couple words in the EMR are.

/yes, I REALLY hate the term "student doctor"

There's a medical school that has the term "student physician" on the white coat, but the word "student" easily gets obscured by the lapel.

I mean, I've had many patients think I was studying to be a nurse after introducing myself as a medical student, but I think that confusion is better than thinking a 3rd year medical student is your physician 😛

 

[Mad Jack]

This won't end. NPs are cheaper. People making legislation don't know how to read a scientific study - so it doesn't matter what these studies show. This in not a matter of NPs becoming independent (which will almost certainly happen), or NP reimbursement rising to meet that of physicians. Ultimately, physician reimbursement will DROP to that of the midlevel. "Providers" will be scheduled interchangeably by the institutions that employ them. The american public will sit back and take it.

Not interested? - Become a surgeon.....

With the advent of ACAs and bundled continuity payments for care, even surgeons may no longer be safe in the future, as cash will be given to the ACA and then divvied out as the executives deem fit. And of course, they'll see fit to pay themselves first and foremost.

 

[axiomofchoice]

Ultimately, it is still a supply and demand issue. Salary for surgeons will remain higher as long as supply remains limited. Physician supply overall is diminished with midlevels essentially being able to supplant MD/DO. I don't see NP/PA/DNP etc performing operative procedures independently, in the near future.

 

[bc65]

MDs, NPs, PAs will now all be classified as providers further confusing the patient

To the contrary, reclassifying everyone as providers actually makes the distinction between physicians and others more obvious, not less so. It makes it clear that not all of those caring for them are physicians. Otherwise, they would be more likely to assume that an NP was a doctor.

 

[Psai]

I completely disagree with this. Why is it so hard to call people by their title? Does it take a ton of space in the emr to write out physician, np, pa, etc.? It doesn't make anything clear. It is already difficult to differentiate between the hordes of white coated people that march in and out of patient rooms without calling people by the same title as if their input is the same.

It's sad that attending physicians not only don't disagree with the policy, but actually agree with it

 

[axiomofchoice]

Perhaps its because they (attendings) realize there is more to practicing medicine than getting some sort of superficial credit for the letters behind your name.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I call myself a provider when I don't want people to realize I'm a med student. It makes getting things done so much easier.

 

[jthedestroyr]

Perhaps its because they (attendings) realize there is more to practicing medicine than getting some sort of superficial credit for the letters behind your name.

It's this kind of thinking that has let nursing take away our power. Yes, we have always been above this type of none sense, but that's why we are in this trouble.

Nursing/admin takes advantage of physicians putting patients first and avoiding politic bs. We must take care of patients, but Also squash all this none sense. I'm a physician and I'd never refer to another physician as a provider.

 

[axiomofchoice]

I too refer to myself and my colleagues as physician. I refer to midlevels as such. I can't control what other people call themselves, and I don't care to.
Nurses don't call us Dr, DNPs call themselves Dr, everyone wears a long white coat.... it is what it is.
I'll say it again. Your title, coat, initials etc won't place you above the pack. Only your ability to deal with complex problems that others simply can't will.

If NP practicing general medicine/primary care is bad for patient care... I'm not sure

 

[jthedestroyr]

Yes, our ability puts us above, but you also have to squash the masquerading as well.

It's actually fraud to portray yourself as a physician. A kind reminder that federal/state law makes it a crime to portray yourself as a physician sqaushes anything.

If they want to clearly state I'm dr. Noctor your nurse Doctor blah great, but referring to themselves as just dr. In a hospital without clarifying is at best unethical. People assume you're a physician when introduced as such and they're misleading patients without clarifying. I'm no lawyer, but I think an ethics committee would also back that.

 

[W19]

I too refer to myself and my colleagues as physician. I refer to midlevels as such. I can't control what other people call themselves, and I don't care to.
Nurses don't call us Dr, DNPs call themselves Dr, everyone wears a long white coat.... it is what it is.
I'll say it again. Your title, coat, initials etc won't place you above the pack. Only your ability to deal with complex problems that others simply can't will.

If NP practicing general medicine/primary care is bad for patient care... I'm not sure

Part of that is correct, but I have a feeling you don't get the big picture here...

 

[Psai]

Perhaps its because they (attendings) realize there is more to practicing medicine than getting some sort of superficial credit for the letters behind your name.

Are you a nursing "resident"? The letters stand for something, they aren't just letters for letters sake

 

[jthedestroyr]

Are you a nursing "resident"? The letters stand for something, they aren't just letters for letters sake

At my residency there are now "pharm residents," "dietician interns" and my most favorite of all of them "chaplan interns."

 

[username456789]

I am not going to get into the EMR issue too much - I sort of understand why there is a need to streamline.

But the bigger issue is bending over and allowing legislators/administration to further blur the lines between those who went to medical school and those who didn't by referring to us all as "providers." Yes, it may not seem like a big issue on the surface - but it is a symptom of the further erosion of our position. It's bad enough that hospitals around the country are strongly pushing the "pit crew" model of medicine (as in: we are all equals performing the same overall task, whether you are a physician or a scrub tech or a janitor).

"Provider" is a 4 letter word as far as I'm concerned. Some may think I'm taking it too seriously. I think those people are not taking it nearly seriously enough.

 

[racerwad]

I call myself a provider when I don't want people to realize I'm a med student. It makes getting things done so much easier.

No medical student is a provider - you have no license or certification that allows you to do anything without delegation from a supervising physician. I don't know if you are trying to be, but this seems disingenuous.

 

[sliceofbread136]

No medical student is a provider - you have no license or certification that allows you to do anything without delegation from a supervising physician. I don't know if you are trying to be, but this seems disingenuous.

I am providing care and in that sense I am a provider. I don't see it as disingenuous. And it makes it so people actually respond to my medical records requests when I fax them😉

 

[oncology2020]

There isn't any other profession in the world that constantly takes it without putting up a fight like us doctors do..it's just getting absurd..now it's politically incorrect to call yourself a doctor..wtf

And dont be silly, this issue isnt just limited to one EMR..the word "provider" is becoming rampant in the entire hospital culture on a national level..you will start having to introduce yourself as a provider to your patients

This would be like lawyers and paralegals jointly calling themselves legal providers..or dentist lumping themselves with dental hygienists to be called dental providers..would never happen..you think any other profession would allow that..enough is enough

Do NOT allow yourself to be called a provider..if any of your staff label you as a provider or introduce you to a patient as a provider..correct it immediately..you're a doctor not a provider..we should not be lumped together with allied health and midlevels

 

[racerwad]

I am providing care and in that sense I am a provider. I don't see it as disingenuous. And it makes it so people actually respond to my medical records requests when I fax them😉

You said in your own post that "you don't want people to realize I'm a med student" when asking them to perform tasks which suggests you were trying to hide or fake some sort of authority. You are only providing care that someone else either delegated to you to do or you asked permission from. A provider, as evidenced by the existence of this thread, implies that that person has experience and authority similar or equivalent to that of a physician. If it really only meant "people who get medical records," no one would be upset. Medical students, without attending physicians, are just normal people with a lot of debt.

 

[witzelsucht]

You said in your own post that "you don't want people to realize I'm a med student" when asking them to perform tasks which suggests you were trying to hide or fake some sort of authority. You are only providing care that someone else either delegated to you to do or you asked permission from. A provider, as evidenced by the existence of this thread, implies that that person has experience and authority similar or equivalent to that of a physician. If it really only meant "people who get medical records," no one would be upset. Medical students, without attending physicians, are just normal people with a lot of debt.

To be fair though, a recent PA grad would be a "provider" with equivalent (or less) experience as compared to a 4th year med student.

I've called myself Dr on the phone when calling for appointments and stuff like making the nurses draw labs (which were already ordered in the EMR), but only because the resident told me explicitly to do so (VA...can't get anything done without a fight). Yeah...its a little deceitful, but, you know, whatever.

 

[sliceofbread136]

You said in your own post that "you don't want people to realize I'm a med student" when asking them to perform tasks which suggests you were trying to hide or fake some sort of authority. You are only providing care that someone else either delegated to you to do or you asked permission from. A provider, as evidenced by the existence of this thread, implies that that person has experience and authority similar or equivalent to that of a physician. If it really only meant "people who get medical records," no one would be upset. Medical students, without attending physicians, are just normal people with a lot of debt.

I'm not lying at all.

Definition of provider:
A term used by managed care organizations, referring to anyone rendering medical care, including physicians, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, and others.

I am rendering medical care. Whether I am under supervision or not does not factor in. As others have stated you refer to a PA as a provider even though they are also under the supervision of an MD. I know you are trying to feel morally superior, but I see no fault in making the scut work necessary to patient care actually get done in a timely manner and your condescending posts aren't going to change that.

To be fair though, a recent PA grad would be a "provider" with equivalent (or less) experience as compared to a 4th year med student.

I've called myself Dr on the phone when calling for appointments and stuff like making the nurses draw labs (which were already ordered in the EMR), but only because the resident told me explicitly to do so (VA...can't get anything done without a fight). Yeah...its a little deceitful, but, you know, whatever.

You gotta do what Ya gotta do

 

[username456789]

I'm not lying at all.

Definition of provider:
A term used by managed care organizations, referring to anyone rendering medical care, including physicians, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, and others.

I am rendering medical care. Whether I am under supervision or not does not factor in. As others have stated you refer to a PA as a provider even though they are also under the supervision of an MD. I know you are trying to feel morally superior, but I see no fault in making the scut work necessary to patient care actually get done in a timely manner and your condescending posts aren't going to change that.




You gotta do what Ya gotta do

More importantly, you're underscoring the fact that any douchebag can bogart the term to pretend they're something they're not. Which is why physicians should be opposed to the use of this word.

 

[sliceofbread136]

More importantly, you're underscoring the fact that any douchebag can bogart the term to pretend they're something they're not. Which is why physicians should be opposed to the use of this word.

I'm clear with my patients that I am a medical student because they have to know. If I am carrying out a duty delegated to me by my team I am not going to advertise that I am a medical student. If you want to that is fine, have fun waiting for those medical records because the office worker is busy playing FarmVille because they know you don't matter

Also as I said before I am actually a provider, as I render care. I am not lying

 

[username456789]

I'm clear with my patients that I am a medical student because they have to know. If I am carrying out a duty delegated to me by my team I am not going to advertise that I am a medical student. If you want to that is fine, have fun waiting for those medical records because the office worker is busy playing FarmVille because they know you don't matter

I'm 8 months from being an attending, so I don't have to play make believe. My main point had little to do with you. You're just helping to illustrate the utter nonsense that is the word "provider", that's all.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I'm 8 months from being an attending, so I don't have to play make believe. My main point had little to do with you. You're just helping to illustrate the utter nonsense that is the word "provider", that's all.

Congratulations on your impending authority. Some of us don't have that authority and have to use the literal definitions of words to get our jobs done, utter nonsense or not

 

[criticalelement]

This won't end. NPs are cheaper. People making legislation don't know how to read a scientific study - so it doesn't matter what these studies show. This in not a matter of NPs becoming independent (which will almost certainly happen), or NP reimbursement rising to meet that of physicians. Ultimately, physician reimbursement will DROP to that of the midlevel. "Providers" will be scheduled interchangeably by the institutions that employ them. The american public will sit back and take it.

Not interested? - Become a surgeon.....

I think you are wrong. There are so many nuances to practicing successfully long term that cannot be appreciated without depth of knowledge. Without having appreciation, bad things happen. When bad things happen people wont be happy except the personal injury attorneys.

 

[racerwad]

I'm not lying at all.

Definition of provider:
A term used by managed care organizations, referring to anyone rendering medical care, including physicians, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, and others.

I am rendering medical care. Whether I am under supervision or not does not factor in. As others have stated you refer to a PA as a provider even though they are also under the supervision of an MD. I know you are trying to feel morally superior, but I see no fault in making the scut work necessary to patient care actually get done in a timely manner and your condescending posts aren't going to change that.

You gotta do what Ya gotta do

A recent PA grad has a license. More importantly, they have completed their training, which you have not. The fact that you are co-opting the term and its authority (for lack of a better term) shows that you are using subterfuge to get what you want rather than just being honest. That seems deceitful to me, even if the goal is just to get some records faxed. I don't get what's wrong with telling people you are a medical student.

Congratulations on your impending authority. Some of us don't have that authority and have to use the literal definitions of words to get our jobs done, utter nonsense or not

It seems sad to pretend to be someone you are not. I have never had a problem getting my job done while clearly identifying myself as a medical student. I never was treated poorly because of my stupid short coat. I think it says something about you that you have to hide that.

 

[pulmoblast]

Medicine is changing from the art and science it once was to a cookbook/checklist approach. Short order cooks replace the chefs. Deal with it.

Or become a surgeon...they will soon be the only real physicians with any degree of autonomy...the rest of us will be employees getting flu shots in our asses

 

[Nasrudin]

Am I only one who hates this word for completely unrelated reasons? It sounds like I shot an Elk and hiked it out of the mountains and laid it before the patient. Who then owes me sexual favors and whatever the F else I desire.

Provider? wtf? Such an asinine word.

 

[sliceofbread136]

A recent PA grad has a license. More importantly, they have completed their training, which you have not. The fact that you are co-opting the term and its authority (for lack of a better term) shows that you are using subterfuge to get what you want rather than just being honest. That seems deceitful to me, even if the goal is just to get some records faxed. I don't get what's wrong with telling people you are a medical student.



It seems sad to pretend to be someone you are not. I have never had a problem getting my job done while clearly identifying myself as a medical student. I never was treated poorly because of my stupid short coat. I think it says something about you that you have to hide that.

I am not pretending anything, I am a provider as I provide medical care. I am using the actual definition of the term not your made up one, which has now shifted from requiring giving care without supervision to having a license (something an intern doesn't even have)

You do and feel as you want, I clearly see there is no getting you off the high horse. Have fun shouting to the world you are a med student. Also, my school gives long coats 😉

 

[username456789]

having a license (something an intern doesn't even have)

Yes they do.

 

[criticalelement]

Now that we are providers can we unionize?

 

[charmiedermie]

I mean, honestly it does make a lot of sense. A lot of the time in our hospital we'd have patients that were under the care of podiatry (we had a lot of podiatry admits), dentistry (for surgical procedures), nurse practitioners, or physician assistants (the latter two in the ED) as their primary. Provider actually just makes sense, as many people simply didn't have a licensed physician as the person primarily providing and directing their care.

Agree with @Mad Jack. It makes sense. This is more a matter of making things less confusing (i.e. if it's an NP's patient, the NP is the provider, but the NP is not the attending physician) than a matter of a slippery slope towards mid-levels "taking over." Don't be so bitter and quick to belittle the IT people, I guarantee you that it wasn't their decision to make.

To think nurses will write out every acronym after their name to identify themselves, and you guys think it is no big deal for everyone to be under one label of provider. An EMR can have as many labels as it needs. It isn't that taxing for IT to make them - Admitting Physician, Admitting NP, Consulting Physician, Consulting NP, ...

Perhaps its because they (attendings) realize there is more to practicing medicine than getting some sort of superficial credit for the letters behind your name.

That "superficial" credit allows you to be reimbursed 15% higher than a midlevel by Medicare and other payers for the same services billed.

I am not pretending anything, I am a provider as I provide medical care. I am using the actual definition of the term not your made up one, which has now shifted from requiring giving care without supervision to having a license (something an intern doesn't even have)😉

You are not a provider in the legal or ethical sense of the word. I hope you don't say this to a patient because that is very unprofessional and will get you in trouble. Also, if an intern doesn't get a medical license, then I want all my license registration fees I sent a check for refunded.

 

[Mad Jack]

To think nurses will write out every acronym after their name to identify themselves, and you guys think it is no big deal for everyone to be under one label of provider. An EMR can have as many labels as it needs. It isn't that taxing for IT to make them - Admitting Physician, Admitting NP, Consulting Physician, Consulting NP, ...

That "superficial" credit allows you to be reimbursed 15% higher than a midlevel by Medicare and other payers for the same services billed.

You are not a provider in the legal or ethical sense of the word. I hope you don't say this to a patient because that is very unprofessional and will get you in trouble. Also, if an intern doesn't get a medical license, then I want all my license registration fees I sent a check for refunded.

The way Epic works, that would be a pain in the ass, as it is a header, and all of the things below that header need to fit. You could have multiple herds, sure, but than you'd have to add every possible header to your main interface, resulting in a ****load of unnecessary sidescrolling.

 

[charmiedermie]

Congratulations on your impending authority. Some of us don't have that authority and have to use the literal definitions of words to get our jobs done, utter nonsense or not

I don't think you get @GuyWhoDoesStuff's point. The fact that you were able to do things in a hospital just by calling yourself a "provider" proves that everyone should get the label of what they are - Physician, NP, ... you would be much less comfortable (I would hope) answering the phone or going to a hospital employee and saying you're a physician, mainly because you could get in deep doo-doo.

 

[charmiedermie]

The way Epic works, that would be a pain in the ass, as it is a header, and all of the things below that header need to fit. You could have multiple herds, sure, but than you'd have to add every possible header to your main interface, resulting in a ****load of unnecessary sidescrolling.

Does your EMR not have a dropdown menu to select what you are? You can put as many options as you want in alphabetical order which you can type to hop right to it. Or an automatic signature box that readily lists what you are? Even with your way, it's not like tons of megabytes are saved or you save a lot of clicks.

 

[Mad Jack]

Does your EMR not have a dropdown menu to select what you are? You can put as many options as you want in alphabetical order which you can type to hop right to it. Or an automatic signature box that readily lists what you are? Even with your way, it's not like tons of megabytes are saved or you save a lot of clicks.

I was referring to the top rows of your patient screen. The rows are like, "Name, Room, CC, Provider, New Labs, etc." For your patient screen to list every possible type of provider would require a new row for every single type of provider, causing a massive horizontal expansion of your patient screen. That would be a stupid, inefficient waste of space when you can just limit it down to a single provider column.

 

[jthedestroyr]

Epic EHr is hands down the easiest to customize system out there. There is a default interface, but You can change around anything. Often information for one thing is in multiple areas, so no, it wouldn't be getting in the way.

Medical students really don't understand these battles until they get to the next level of training. Just like as residents we are insulated from "attending level" battles.

The point a lot of you aren't realizing is as physicians we are taught to be above this politic bs. Yet, being above this politic bs has made many mid levels so bold that they drink the kool aide they're just as qualified as the physician. This gets re-enforced with physicians giving up power, letting them masquerade as physicians (wearing long white coats, PA students wearing short whites like medical students, using inter changeable titles).

Why don't we start using "law providers" for lawyers, paralegals, court assistants, cops and everyone else in the legal system. I mean they're all part of the legal system and after all we are a team based society aren't we?

 

[Mad Jack]

Epic EHr is hands down the easiest to customize system out there. There is a default interface, but You can change around anything. Often information for one thing is in multiple areas, so no, it wouldn't be getting in the way.

Medical students really don't understand these battles until they get to the next level of training. Just like as residents we are insulated from "attending level" battles.

The point a lot of you aren't realizing is as physicians we are taught to be above this politic bs. Yet, being above this politic bs has made many mid levels so bold that they drink the kool aide they're just as qualified as the physician. This gets re-enforced with physicians giving up power, letting them masquerade as physicians (wearing long white coats, PA students wearing short whites like medical students, using inter changeable titles).

Why don't we start using "law providers" for lawyers, paralegals, court assistants, cops and everyone else in the legal system. I mean they're all part of the legal system and after all we are a team based society aren't we?

How would you deal with the interface issues? I mean, ours just says provider up top and below it has their name followed by their credentials. That's simple and practical.

 

[Entadus]

I did not set out on the long road to become a physician to "provide" people with "healthcare" (as a commodity). I decided to become a doctor so that I could learn to be a healer. The patient-physician relationship is not a widget to be optimized. I am not a unit of capital, I am not full of revenue to be extracted. I will resist the label of "provider" as far as I am able (and I fear that won't be possible by the time I finish training).

Frankly I can't see myself doing primary care. What's the point of studying and training for so many hours and years just to be equated to midlevels? I would rather be an underpaid and overworked general surgeon than have to argue my relative worth to administrators.

Ironically the very same CEO who control and profits from the work of 1000's of "providers" will be the first one to seek and demand the skill of real physicians when he or his family gets sick/injured.

 

[Ismet]

To think nurses will write out every acronym after their name to identify themselves, and you guys think it is no big deal for everyone to be under one label of provider. An EMR can have as many labels as it needs. It isn't that taxing for IT to make them - Admitting Physician, Admitting NP, Consulting Physician, Consulting NP, ...

That "superficial" credit allows you to be reimbursed 15% higher than a midlevel by Medicare and other payers for the same services billed.

You are not a provider in the legal or ethical sense of the word. I hope you don't say this to a patient because that is very unprofessional and will get you in trouble. Also, if an intern doesn't get a medical license, then I want all my license registration fees I sent a check for refunded.

I didn't miss the point. I understand what everyone is saying. I personally don't think it's a huge deal. I don't see this as a small malicious step towards mid-level providers taking over. We use EPIC, and it's very easy to tell if the provider is a doctor, NP, PA, midwife, etc because your credentials are automatically populated when you input your name.

Maybe I'm wrong, and my opinion can change as I get farther in training. I fully admit that. But right now, I don't care what an EMR will label me as. I see physicians as healthcare providers and I don't feel "above" that word.