Proving Native American Status for Application

[LizzyM]

---

Members do not see this ad.

What if people don’t necessarily know what you are? I have a lot of multiracial heritage (AA, NA, and white) and people tend to see me differently (although IMO I look as though I’m Hispanic). Similar to boobanation, I don’t feel like I belong to any “one” ethnicity’s culture, but rather somewhere in the middle.

By "look" I mean seeing you, hearing you speak, the non-verbal signals you send by your body language. If you aren't identifiable as a member of the x community then there isn't an advantage to having you as a physician with whom the x community identifies. It doesn't mean you can't be a physician in that community, only that you may have to work harder for the community to trust you as you may be seen as an outsider.

How did you identify yourself on the last US Census? IMHO, that's what you should list on the AMCAS application, too.

 

[Atay Hlou]

interesting topic 🙂

 

[boobanation]

By "look" I mean seeing you, hearing you speak, the non-verbal signals you send by your body language. If you aren't identifiable as a member of the x community then there isn't an advantage to having you as a physician with whom the x community identifies. It doesn't mean you can't be a physician in that community, only that you may have to work harder for the community to trust you as you may be seen as an outsider.

How did you identify yourself on the last US Census? IMHO, that's what you should list on the AMCAS application, too.

What does an African American look like? Are they all black? What does an African American sounds like? Do they all say "aks" instead of "ask?" What does the non-verbal communication of African Americans is like? Do they sit back in their chair during the interview, act like a street thug, and wear baggy trousers, and a heavy gold chain underneath their suit?

I mean, this all seem to involve a lot of stereotyping. Basically, if someone doesn't fit the image that the interviewer has of one's race, then the interviewee is a liar who tries to game the system?

For God's sake, what does a white person looks like, sounds like, or smell like? No one is the same!

International students will not fit into any community, because the way they will act and think and behave is going to be different than the way people from their race actually do after growing up in America. Don't international students benefit from URM status?

You’re not Hispanic at all. Don’t put that on your application just because your DNA is most Hispanic. It looks like you’re trying to trick the system to get an advantage of being a URM.

I am registered 1/16 with the Mvskoke/Creek tribe and this is a question I can answer! If you want to get technical, even Natives are raised in White culture these days (if they admit or not). I’ve never met a Native who was a hunter/gather or even a Native style farmer. The blood ties are all that’s left and if you’ve got it use it, the rest of us do, that’s why it’s there and most all benefits are generated entirely by the tribe.

So, what does exactly constitutes race and ethnicity?
- Native Americans self identify by having blood ties to a native american tribe (have to be at least 1/16th). Following that logic, the fact that I am 1/8th african, and 1/3rd hispanic allows me to identify as african and hispanic.
- Some will say that it has to do with origins. Well, I am as far removed from Spain as some black americans from Africa.
- Some say it has to do with looks (a.k.a how you are perceived by other people). I look hispanic more than any other race, but I still can't say I'm hispanic according to some because that is not my culture (understandably valid argument).
- Some say it has to do with whatever the higher authority a.k.a the US census bureau decides. I disagree that I have to submit to what the US census bureau defines me as because it didn't want to bother and check that my country has people of many different races and ethnicities. German people are white in general and declared as such by the us census bureau, but there are asian german people too, and hispanic german people too. Some north africans are white and blonde with blue eyes, others have jet black skin depending on the region.

Again, I am not changing my race and ethnicity now that I am applying to medical school. I have always identified as ONLY African American, be it in any official paperwork issued by the United States in which I had to self-identify, or for my college application. What I am (potentially) adding, in order to dilute controversy, is the self-identification as white and hispanic. But it seems that whatever I try to do, I will get negative comments and be a victim of the stereotype of my interviewers.

 

[Nathan17182]

What does an African American look like? Are they all black? What does an African American sounds like? Do they all say "aks" instead of "ask?" What does the non-verbal communication of African Americans is like? Do they sit back in their chair during the interview, act like a street thug, and wear baggy trousers, and a heavy gold chain underneath their suit?

I mean, this all seem to involve a lot of stereotyping. Basically, if someone doesn't fit the image that the interviewer has of one's race, then the interviewee is a liar who tries to game the system?

Yikes...

I would venture to say most African Americans are black. I am light skinned, but I'm black. My sister is very dark skinned and she's black. To me, it's more than just color. I know you were trying to make a point by saying stereotypical things, but that point was definitely lost to me. I think @LizzyM's point was if you had myself or my sister as patients would we identify with you?

You can self-identify however you want, but to be candid, if you put African American on your application and you show up to your interview and you're not black then you'll have to explain yourself. You might be able to explain the situation to your interviewer and they might understand, but why would you want to waste time on that?

You have had multiple adcom members tell you not to put African American or Hispanic. No one is saying they don't believe your story and that how you self-identify is wrong. But the purpose of URM status for medical school is to recruit doctors that will represent that community and have shown a commitment to that community.

You can always mention your cultural upbringing and how you identify in your personal statement or the additional information section on secondaries.

 

[Goro]

Internationals for the most part are NOT URM.

Look, I have an Afrikaaners neighbor who family probably spent some 300 years in southern Africa. Is he African-American? by the literal definition, as a now American citizen who emigrated here from Africa, then yes.

But is he African-American in the figurative sense that we American actually think about? No way.

So you're in the same bin that he is.

And I'm warning you, get off your high horse, and do NOT check that box for African-American OR URM, because you are neither for med school admissions purposes. If you persist, then you are asking for a 100% reject rate, and deservedly so.

What does an African American look like? Are they all black? What does an African American sounds like? Do they all say "aks" instead of "ask?" What does the non-verbal communication of African Americans is like? Do they sit back in their chair during the interview, act like a street thug, and wear baggy trousers, and a heavy gold chain underneath their suit?

I mean, this all seem to involve a lot of stereotyping. Basically, if someone doesn't fit the image that the interviewer has of one's race, then the interviewee is a liar who tries to game the system?

For God's sake, what does a white person looks like, sounds like, or smell like? No one is the same!

International students will not fit into any community, because the way they will act and think and behave is going to be different than the way people from their race actually do after growing up in America. Don't international students benefit from URM status?

So, what does exactly constitutes race and ethnicity?
- Native Americans self identify by having blood ties to a native american tribe (have to be at least 1/16th). Following that logic, the fact that I am 1/8th african, and 1/3rd hispanic allows me to identify as african and hispanic.
- Some will say that it has to do with origins. Well, I am as far removed from Spain as some black americans from Africa.
- Some say it has to do with looks (a.k.a how you are perceived by other people). I look hispanic more than any other race, but I still can't say I'm hispanic according to some because that is not my culture (understandably valid argument).
- Some say it has to do with whatever the higher authority a.k.a the US census bureau decides. I disagree that I have to submit to what the US census bureau defines me as because it didn't want to bother and check that my country has people of many different races and ethnicities. German people are white in general and declared as such by the us census bureau, but there are asian german people too, and hispanic german people too. Some north africans are white and blonde with blue eyes, others have jet black skin depending on the region.

Again, I am not changing my race and ethnicity now that I am applying to medical school. I have always identified as ONLY African American, be it in any official paperwork issued by the United States in which I had to self-identify, or for my college application. What I am (potentially) adding, in order to dilute controversy, is the self-identification as white and hispanic. But it seems that whatever I try to do, I will get negative comments and be a victim of the stereotype of my interviewers.

 

[LizzyM]

What does an African American look like? Are they all black? What does an African American sounds like? Do they all say "aks" instead of "ask?" What does the non-verbal communication of African Americans is like? Do they sit back in their chair during the interview, act like a street thug, and wear baggy trousers, and a heavy gold chain underneath their suit?

I mean, this all seem to involve a lot of stereotyping. Basically, if someone doesn't fit the image that the interviewer has of one's race, then the interviewee is a liar who tries to game the system?

For God's sake, what does a white person looks like, sounds like, or smell like? No one is the same!

International students will not fit into any community, because the way they will act and think and behave is going to be different than the way people from their race actually do after growing up in America. Don't international students benefit from URM status?





So, what does exactly constitutes race and ethnicity?
- Native Americans self identify by having blood ties to a native american tribe (have to be at least 1/16th). Following that logic, the fact that I am 1/8th african, and 1/3rd hispanic allows me to identify as african and hispanic.
- Some will say that it has to do with origins. Well, I am as far removed from Spain as some black americans from Africa.
- Some say it has to do with looks (a.k.a how you are perceived by other people). I look hispanic more than any other race, but I still can't say I'm hispanic according to some because that is not my culture (understandably valid argument).
- Some say it has to do with whatever the higher authority a.k.a the US census bureau decides. I disagree that I have to submit to what the US census bureau defines me as because it didn't want to bother and check that my country has people of many different races and ethnicities. German people are white in general and declared as such by the us census bureau, but there are asian german people too, and hispanic german people too. Some north africans are white and blonde with blue eyes, others have jet black skin depending on the region.

Again, I am not changing my race and ethnicity now that I am applying to medical school. I have always identified as ONLY African American, be it in any official paperwork issued by the United States in which I had to self-identify, or for my college application. What I am (potentially) adding, in order to dilute controversy, is the self-identification as white and hispanic. But it seems that whatever I try to do, I will get negative comments and be a victim of the stereotype of my interviewers.

My statement said nothing of what interviewers think. This is about how you should identify yourself on your application.

The US Census Bureau does not DECIDE how you self-identify. However, they do define the terms, "white", "black/African-American", "Asian", "Hispanic" etc. The definition relates to origins meaning that your origins (where your ancestors were living 500 years ago) are more relevant than where you or your parents were born. If there are "Asian German People" it is likely that their ancestors were living in Asia 500 years ago. In fact, I my former primary care doc was born in Africa but self-identified as Asian (Indian) because her parents were Indians who migrated to Africa. Her origins, then, were in the Indian sub-continent, not Africa.

Black/African-American is defined by the US Census Bureau has having origins in Sub-Sahara Africa. The people who have origins in Sub-Saharan Africa are black. Many people in the US with those origins are of mixed race after centuries in the US and may have skin that is relatively lighter than recent immigrants from Sub-Saharan Africa. The US Census Bureau defines White as, among other locations, those having origins in North Africa.

If you have discovered your origins in the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal) and want to list it, fine, go ahead. It is unlikely to have an effect one way or another. Ditto if you want to self-identify as biracial and include your white ancestry. If your roots are European and/or North African, you are, by US Census definition, "white" regardless of the color of your skin. "white" is a classification representing people with origins in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, not a name specifying a skin color.

 

[boobanation]

Ok, I am convinced now.
thanks. I will not self identify as african american or hispanic.
I think I will either decline to answer the question, or write Moroccan American under the 'other' box.

 

[VillageSweetie]

As an Alaskan Native/American Indian who is over 50% NA and who grew up very traditionally in a tribal community (and yes these communities do still really exist in Alaska), this has been a hard thread to read. I had to stop myself from replying to a lot of the comments.

I will comment on the application process as one who did check that box.

I do not know if I would recommend checking that box, if I did not grow up identifying with my ethnic group. Some of the schools that I applied to asked for documentation (tribal I.D., C.I.B., etc.). Some asked for a list of all of the communities that I have ever lived in (although I am not sure if that was a requirement for the rural medicine programs that I applied to, instead of the NA programs). And the Indians into Medicine program has one write essays relating to their tribal connections and upbringing, as well as require a letter(s) of recommendation from a tribal representative. For me, providing the essays and recommendation was not a problem. I was raised heavily in my Alaskan Native/American Indian culture. I - like MANY American Indians/Alaskan Natives - also do visually appear like a minority. I have never had someone who met me think that I was Caucasian. However, people do have a hard time placing my ethnicity. I have been confused for Japanese, Hispanic (even by locals when traveling to Mexico and Spain), Inupiaq/Yupik (groups historically referred to as "Eskimo"), etc. I often get spoken to in other languages, as people assume they know my ethnicity.

My application likely sings my culture. However, this is because it is who I am. I grew up in a very different setting, community, and social structure than most people and most medical school applicants.

Yes, there has been a bit of a loss of culture. I am not fluent in Denakke', the language of my people. I only know words or phrases, despite that being my dad's first language. As someone else pointed out, the outside culture has been forced on Native American groups. My dad's generation was forced to attend boarding schools. They were not allowed to speak their Native languages (and they were physically punished for doing so). That had a huge impact on language for many indigenous groups. And for those who feel as though there is no culture left, this is DEFINITELY NOT the case. My dad remembers when he met his first "white" person. That is how different my neck of the woods is from most others.

Has "checking the box" helped me as an applicant? It is hard to say. While I have a lot of interview invitations, I believe that I would have received many of those just with my upbringing and strong desire to practice rural, primary care medicine. I have strong extra-curriculars that scream rural, underrepresented, underserved, etc. In addition to that, I have a B.S. and a Master's degree. I am non-traditional (a career changer) applicant, a former college athlete, with a lot of leadership experience and with a couple years of undergraduate research under my belt. I have been told (by interviewers) that I have very strong letters of recommendation. I do have multiple acceptances already and am waiting to hear back from other programs. The programs that I have already been accepted to were NOT programs that asked me to prove my racial background or upbringing.

I have interviewed at a program or two where I - as a minority applicant - felt a true lack of diversity. I do not plan to attend a school (or live in a community) where I - and most importantly, those in my household - would likely feel uncomfortable (with the lack of diversity).

If you are an Alaskan Native/American Indian applicant, please feel free to DM me with any additional questions about the application process (or perhaps about a specific school/program).

 

[Yhaatheth]

Hello yall... I just wanted to make an update. I quit reading this thread in 2015 when the comments were only limited to the first page or two. I'm shocked by the response this topic has received! It's great to see everyone's opinion... and how different they are - in addition to @VillageSweetie's contribution.

I didn't end up claiming my NA ancestry for the 2015-2016 application cycle. I got into medical school (MD) as a white man. Although I did end up getting in to med school, I still chose to pursue documentation for my Native Ancestry. I met with my mother for the first time in 17 years, and over time she was able to provide me the resources I needed to prove to the Navajo Tribe that I was one of them. I'm officially a Navajo Tribe Member. I found out my grandpa's name was Andrew Manygoats - a Navajo man killed before my birth mother was born. My Blood Quantum is 1/4 - though I've been told my whole life I'm half. Because Andrew died before my birth mother's birth - she is only listed as 1/2.

I have not visited the Navajo reservation - I still have not partook in Native American community projects in Texas.

Receiving that paper in the mail that had my roll call number was a great feeling... officially being a part of a tribe... and it helped solidify my identity. I believe I said for simplicity in the past that I identified as white - out of shame, a defense mechanism... something I couldn't prove at the time. Saying I was part native american would be met with speculation. Having the validation makes me appreciate the part of me that was lost as a child being separated from my mother.

I took up Olympic Recurve Archery... and I'm pretty good at it now, lol. This is my own personal attempt at getting in touch with inner native (I freaking love archery)

I'm applying to residency this year... currently thinking I'm going to check the NA and White box and just be multicultural because that is what I identify as. I'll do that or put my Navajo Nation membership on my CV. I'd love to talk about it.

 

[Wahkoon]

Hello yall... I just wanted to make an update. I quit reading this thread in 2015 when the comments were only limited to the first page or two. I'm shocked by the response this topic has received! It's great to see everyone's opinion... and how different they are - in addition to @VillageSweetie's contribution.

I didn't end up claiming my NA ancestry for the 2015-2016 application cycle. I got into medical school (MD) as a white man. Although I did end up getting in to med school, I still chose to pursue documentation for my Native Ancestry. I met with my mother for the first time in 17 years, and over time she was able to provide me the resources I needed to prove to the Navajo Tribe that I was one of them. I'm officially a Navajo Tribe Member. I found out my grandpa's name was Andrew Manygoats - a Navajo man killed before my birth mother was born. My Blood Quantum is 1/4 - though I've been told my whole life I'm half. Because Andrew died before my birth mother's birth - she is only listed as 1/2.

I have not visited the Navajo reservation - I still have not partook in Native American community projects in Texas.

Receiving that paper in the mail that had my roll call number was a great feeling... officially being a part of a tribe... and it helped solidify my identity. I believe I said for simplicity in the past that I identified as white - out of shame, a defense mechanism... something I couldn't prove at the time. Saying I was part native american would be met with speculation. Having the validation makes me appreciate the part of me that was lost as a child being separated from my mother.

I took up Olympic Recurve Archery... and I'm pretty good at it now, lol. This is my own personal attempt at getting in touch with inner native (I freaking love archery)

I'm applying to residency this year... currently thinking I'm going to check the NA and White box and just be multicultural because that is what I identify as. I'll do that or put my Navajo Nation membership on my CV. I'd love to talk about it.

Intent is very important. We don’t control our past, but we are certainly able to control our will and our future. I’m glad you have been able to connect with some of your heritage. I promise that if you stay humble and are willing to learn from others, that you will be welcomed in these communities. Just remember that identity is much more than a quantum, and that your actions speak much louder. All the best, brother.