Proving Native American Status for Application

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Yhaatheth

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I already submitted my medical school application... But something has caught my interest... White and Asian men have a 30% less chance of getting into medical school than Hispanic/Black/Native American applicants for my MCAT and GPA combination.

Background: I have been raised believing I'm 50% Navajo, but I never proved my status or have had any affiliation with the Navajo Nation. My mother declared herself as a full-blooded Navajo - child of two full-blooded parents, but she was put up for adoption for unknown reasons. Her father was killed in a bar fight before she was born (I like to believe that had something to do with it and not infidelity.) She is a registered member of the Navajo Nation, but she is listed as half-breed given her adoption status. So I can definitely prove I am 25% Native American.

What makes things more complicated... I do not know my mother... a result of her behavior when I was a child. I was raised with my white father. It was not until recently that we connected again, but I still have not met her... 17 years later. She released all of her tribal affiliation to me in an effort to help me prove my status as Navajo.

As I have been raised in white culture, and I identify as white... would it be unethical for me to claim my minority status after proving my affiliation in the instance I am not accepted my first go-around?

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I dont think you have to prove anything. Elizabeth Warren didnt bother
 
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Since you have absolutely 0 ties to the community I wouldn't recommend claiming it.
 
I already submitted my medical school application... But something has caught my interest... White and Asian men have a 30% less chance of getting into medical school than Hispanic/Black/Native American applicants for my MCAT and GPA combination.

Background: I have been raised believing I'm 50% Navajo, but I never proved my status or have had any affiliation with the Navajo Nation. My mother declared herself as a full-blooded Navajo - child of two full-blooded parents, but she was put up for adoption for unknown reasons. Her father was killed in a bar fight before she was born (I like to believe that had something to do with it and not infidelity.) She is a registered member of the Navajo Nation, but she is listed as half-breed given her adoption status. So I can definitely prove I am 25% Native American.

What makes things more complicated... I do not know my mother... a result of her behavior when I was a child. I was raised with my white father. It was not until recently that we connected again, but I still have not met her... 17 years later. She released all of her tribal affiliation to me in an effort to help me prove my status as Navajo.

As I have been raised in white culture, and I identify as white... would it be unethical for me to claim my minority status after proving my affiliation in the instance I am not accepted my first go-around?


Choose to identify yourself with which ethnicity you feel that you belong to.
Besides, they can't use it in their admission decision. That is illegal, unless approved by their general assembly or state legislature. None of the medical schools in my entire state have affirmative action plans(approved by the state);however, I am pretty sure they have quotas.
 
Let's put it this way. If a half black person was raised by their white parent and applied to medical school, I do not believe admissions committees would consider his claims to be African American as wrong. Just because you were not raised as a part of the Navajo community does not meant that is not part of your heritage. If anything check both boxes because that's fair to do as a multicultural individual.
 
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http://dna.ancestry.com

What happens if one finds out they were part Native American or URM from one of those ancestry DNA tests? Haha I think it's fair to include it…
 
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OP, go get a 23andme done and post your results when you receive them.

Yes, it's extremely unethical and convenient of you to only start claiming NA ancestry once application time comes around. If you've had no affiliation with a registered tribe I would not recommend claiming it.
 
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OP, go get a 23andme done and post your results when you receive them.

Yes, it's extremely unethical and convenient of you to only start claiming NA ancestry once application time comes around. If you've had no affiliation with a registered tribe I would not recommend claiming it.

Did you read the post? OP is only planning to claim if he doesn't get in the first time. Classy. :rolleyes:

Oh and to the OP, if you do go through with this ridiculous plan, make sure you don't reapply to the same schools you applied to as a caucasian the first time around. A sudden change in ethnic identity seems like it would be a red flag.
 
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If you're going to claim something, claim it now, not next cycle. I'll just leave it at that.
 
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Okay, I think the backlash here is a bit ridiculous.

I'll agree that it's not the most ethical thing to suddenly claim being 1/4 Navajo, but that's exactly what you are.

I have two African-American friends who were adopted by Caucasian parents but they still mark "African-American" on their applications. It isn't expected that they grow up in a black community or lead the NAACP for them to claim this. It's what they are. I also have friends who are mixed and despite identifying as Caucasian 90% of the time, their application shows them as being part AA. Again, nothing is expected of them, it's just what they are.

And sorry @gyngyn, but I have to disagree that identification with and commitment to a certain community is at least as important as genetics. URM status isn't awarded based on self-identification or service hours.
 
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And sorry @gyngyn, but I have to disagree that identification with and commitment to a certain community is at least as important as genetics. URM status isn't awarded based on self-identification or service hours.
URM is not the same as UIM (under-represented in medicine).
UIM is the designation we use to acknowledge health disparity.
The designation of such an individual is to enrich the class and to increase service to this community, not as a benefit to the individual applicant.
 
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23andme and other commercial dna tests do not reliably confirm or deny Native ancestry. Their pool of reference individuals is very limited by the frequency of intermarriage with other groups.

I have Native American ancestry and claimed it rightfully, despite not being directly affiliated with the present day tribes for political reasons. I will happily explain this choice if I am ever called on it. I think that it is blatantly racist to require Native Americans to maintain political affiliations in order to claim their heritage when other groups are not held to that standard.

Part of the tragedy of my heritage is that many NA children were forcibly taken from parents and raised in white homes or in orphanage / boarding schools. They were denied the opportunity to learn their native languages and cultures. To further disenfranchise them and their descendants by denying their right to claim their ancestry is an attempt at revictimization. It completes the intent of those who attempted to forcibly whitewash those stolen generations. I refuse to accept that for myself.

Then again... I don't just claim my ancestry for purposes of med school applications. It is absolutely a part of how I see myself and my relationship to others. If your identity is so fluid that it can shift to whatever is most beneficial to you at that time, then it isn't an identity... it is an expedient fiction.
 
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URM is not the same as UIM (under-represented in medicine).
UIM is the designation we use to acknowledge health disparity.
This designation of such an individual is to enrich the class and to increase service to this community, not as a benefit to the individual applicant.

So perhaps OP wouldn't qualify as UIM, but would as URM, which would still help him in the application cycle lol.
 
At my school, identification with and commitment to community are at least as important as actual genetics.

http://dna.ancestry.com

What happens if one finds out they were part Native American or URM from one of those ancestry DNA tests? Haha I think it's fair to include it…


One can always start volunteering with the respective community after they find out their results. "Getting in touch with their roots" or something.
 
One can always start volunteering with the respective community after they find out their results. "Getting in touch with their roots" or something.
My guess is claims of a "deep commitment" would ring hollow with AdComs in such a scenario.
 
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I'm one of those white people who is 1/16th Cherokee, but I just put "white" on my app. I could probably prove it with genealogy, but I have probably spent a grand total of about thirty minutes on a Native American reservation in my entire life and have no record of service to the Native American community.
 
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Let's be honest: an adequate commitment would be a one-year volunteering stint with the Native American community. How many of you have been volunteering at the same place for over five years for anything?
 
Let's be honest: an adequate commitment would be a one-year volunteering stint with the Native American community. How many of you have been volunteering at the same place for over five years for anything?
Considering that most applicants are 20 years old, five years might be rare.
 
Okay, I think the backlash here is a bit ridiculous.

I'll agree that it's not the most ethical thing to suddenly claim being 1/4 Navajo, but that's exactly what you are.

I have two African-American friends who were adopted by Caucasian parents but they still mark "African-American" on their applications. It isn't expected that they grow up in a black community or lead the NAACP for them to claim this. It's what they are. I also have friends who are mixed and despite identifying as Caucasian 90% of the time, their application shows them as being part AA. Again, nothing is expected of them, it's just what they are.

And sorry @gyngyn, but I have to disagree that identification with and commitment to a certain community is at least as important as genetics. URM status isn't awarded based on self-identification or service hours.


Until he gets a DNA test done, his claims are nothing but mere speculation. The percentage of White-European Americans with North American Native American ancestry has been ridiculously overblown. Harvard conducted a study with 23andme which analyzed 160,000 individuals on a genome-wide scale and not surprisingly the White American collective averaged only "0.18%" Native American. People who fall far above the standard mean are few and far between. (no pun intended)

It's an insult to people of actual Native American ancestry for White Americans to claim it especially to collect on benefits.
Unlike the majority of people who may claim it here, I can actually prove Native American heritage:
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23andme and other commercial dna tests do not reliably confirm or deny Native ancestry. Their pool of reference individuals is very limited by the frequency of intermarriage with other groups.

I have Native American ancestry and claimed it rightfully, despite not being directly affiliated with the present day tribes for political reasons. I will happily explain this choice if I am ever called on it. I think that it is blatantly racist to require Native Americans to maintain political affiliations in order to claim their heritage when other groups are not held to that standard.

Part of the tragedy of my heritage is that many NA children were forcibly taken from parents and raised in white homes or in orphanage / boarding schools. They were denied the opportunity to learn their native languages and cultures. To further disenfranchise them and their descendants by denying their right to claim their ancestry is an attempt at revictimization. It completes the intent of those who attempted to forcibly whitewash those stolen generations. I refuse to accept that for myself.

Then again... I don't just claim my ancestry for purposes of med school applications. It is absolutely a part of how I see myself and my relationship to others. If your identity is so fluid that it can shift to whatever is most beneficial to you at that time, then it isn't an identity... it is an expedient fiction.

That is where you're wrong. The
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used by 23andme for NA is large enough to yield a positive (or negative) verification of NA ancestry since they practically cross-reference your genome with approximately 500,000-700,000 SNP markers -the highest by far for any company- in that "pool of reference".


The reason why I say that applicants who claim NA ancestry should be part of a registered tribe is because generally, on official government forms it is not enough to be genetically American Indian but also to be a member of one of the 567 recognized American Indian tribes in the United States of America (exclude South, Central and Mexican-Americans). All I'm saying is tread carefully.
 
Okay, I think the backlash here is a bit ridiculous.

I'll agree that it's not the most ethical thing to suddenly claim being 1/4 Navajo, but that's exactly what you are.

I have two African-American friends who were adopted by Caucasian parents but they still mark "African-American" on their applications. It isn't expected that they grow up in a black community or lead the NAACP for them to claim this. It's what they are. I also have friends who are mixed and despite identifying as Caucasian 90% of the time, their application shows them as being part AA. Again, nothing is expected of them, it's just what they are.

And sorry @gyngyn, but I have to disagree that identification with and commitment to a certain community is at least as important as genetics. URM status isn't awarded based on self-identification or service hours.

Funny story: One of my best friends had moved from South Africa to the US during middle school.

He had an older brother who had just entered high school as a senior. He fluently spoke Swahili, had an awesome African name, etc.

But since he's new, he doesn't know much about American culture.

College application season comes up, and he starts applying to several scholarships. One day, I find out from his brother that he won a scholarship meant for African-Americans.

Here's the problem: He's 100% white.

When his younger brother confronted him about it, he naively went: "But I'm from Africa. Doesn't that make me an African-American?"

Think he ended up keeping the money anyways.
 
I still think it's funny. "African-American" isn't the wisest term to use to refer to the black community...it excludes those with Caribbean heritage while including our white friend mentioned above lol.
 
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I still think it's funny. "African-American" isn't the wisest term to use to refer to the black community...it excludes those with Caribbean heritage while including our white friend mentioned above lol.
It's kind of silly. I went to a high school in the inner city and had many "African-American" friends. I referred to those friends, and they referred to each other, as "Black." I have never once had someone claim offense at this label.
 
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@ElCapone that story reminds me of the disney movie "the color of friendship"!! They were all stoked to host foreign student from South Africa and had their house decked out in tribal patterns only to have a blonde-haired blue-eyed white girl show up lmaooo

tumblr_lsg51yrsPT1qhwxp0o1_400.gif
 
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I still think it's funny. "African-American" isn't the wisest term to use to refer to the black community...it excludes those with Caribbean heritage while including our white friend mentioned above lol.

On the other hand, I feel really uncomfortable calling someone "black". Calling someone "African-American" sounds so much more politically correct and mellifluous.
 
@ElCapone that story reminds me of the disney movie "the color of friendship"!! They were all stoked to host foreign student from South Africa and had their house decked out in tribal patterns only to have a blonde-haired blue-eyed white girl show up lmaooo

tumblr_lsg51yrsPT1qhwxp0o1_400.gif

Haha! For some reason, it reminded me about a med student at UMDNJ who was from Mozambique. He lived there for about 20 years and another 20 in the US.

He also was of Portuguese descent, and was a fourth-generation Mozambique-ian.

Fast forward to med school. In some class exercise on diversity, everyone is asked to define what they are for some cultural exercise.

For this guy, he's definitely African. But he's also American since he's a US citizen and spent half his life here. Also, he's white.

So what does he do? Combine all three into "White African-American". Everyone gets massively outraged over that, and eventually he gets suspended for a year.

Here's the full story: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7567291

Tbh, I really wish we lived in a racial-label-free world in which your skin color isn't your defining characteristic.
 
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On the other hand, I feel really uncomfortable calling someone "black". Calling someone "African-American" sounds so much more politically correct and mellifluous.
I have the opposite experience. Anytime someone tries to overtly be politically correct, I cringe. And it usually has the unintended consequence of drawing attention to something that would otherwise be irrelevant.
 
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Until he gets a DNA test done, his claims are nothing but mere speculation. .

I mean did you not even read my post? My mother is already registered as half-breed with the Navajo nation... That means I'm at least a 4th.

I mean... a 30% greater chance of getting into medical school just for being a minority causes this issue... I have the blood of a diminished group of people... shouldn't I inherit what my ancestor's lost? Clearly other minorities are reaping the benefits... Why do I need to jump through hoops to prove I am Native American? Probably because there is no definitive phenotype or Native American features... No one can look at me and say I'm Navajo besides other Navajo people... most people think I'm a cross between half asian/half white or half mexican/half white... or white... Devil's advocate here... Sure too many people claim to be Native American and that's why there are laws that require proof... I have the paperwork... I just have to send it in. I'm going to regardless... I want to obtain my Indian number.
 
Also... I'd love for yall to tell me how a young person living in Texas would ever have the opportunity to experience their Native American culture in New Mexico... How can any Native American who does not live on their reservation experience their culture when there are so many barriers of entry?

The extent of my Navajo knowledge comes from what my mother has since told me in our brief interactions, that SuperSize me guy's documentary where he lived there for 30 days or w/e, history books, and a Navajo person I met in high school. How do you get to know a culture that is dying a thousand miles away?

One answer is to visit the reservation as a college graduate and discover for myself...
 
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I mean did you not even read my post? My mother is already registered as half-breed with the Navajo nation... That means I'm at least a 4th.

I mean... a 30% greater chance of getting into medical school just for being a minority causes this issue... I have the blood of a diminished group of people... shouldn't I inherit what my ancestor's lost? Clearly other minorities are reaping the benefits... Why do I need to jump through hoops to prove I am Native American? Probably because there is no definitive phenotype or Native American features... No one can look at me and say I'm Navajo besides other Navajo people... most people think I'm a cross between half asian/half white or half mexican/half white... or white... Devil's advocate here... Sure too many people claim to be Native American and that's why there are laws that require proof... I have the paperwork... I just have to send it in. I'm going to regardless... I want to obtain my Indian number.


Please don't use the term "half breed." That term has been used to be highly offensive. She has 1/2 blood quantum or something to that affect......do not say half breed.
If you really want to connect with your heritage, seek out Urban Indian Centers in your city. Many Natives actually don't live on or grew up on reservations. There was actually a huge push to get Natives to move off the reservation in the 1950s with promises of housing and jobs in big cities. That's why cities like LA have huge Native populations. In Oakland, we had the Intertribal Friendship house which served as our "urban reservation" so we could remain connected. We had drum, dancing and beading classes to help younger generations to remain connected to their tribes.

You said you're in Texas? Try connecting here: http://www.uihi.org . There's service projects you can help with and maybe there will be people who can help you connect with who you are.

Also, does your school have a department or anything for Native students? I would talk to them as well.
 
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As offensive as I find the term half breed, that may well be the official designation that OP's mom has within her tribe. That is why I didn't pipe up with a correction. As awful as the term may be, if that is what the tribe calls it, that is their business.

Some of us find any discussion of blood quanta to be offensive. Even if we are of mixed heritage, we don't consider ourselves "part" anything, but fully human with diverse ancestry.

There is a lot of insensitivity and deeply racist infrastructure in matters of Indian Affairs. Refusal to participate in it is a reason that I abstain from tribal politics entirely.
 
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As for the assertion that I am incorrect regarding 23andme's potential to confirm or deny native heritage, I will refer to the site itself:

https://customercare.23andme.com/hc...an-23andMe-identify-Native-American-ancestry-

Currently 23andMe has several features that can reveal genetic evidence of Native American ancestry, although they are not considered a confirmatory test or proof of such ancestry in a legal context.

There are quite a few services that will sell you DNA tests on false pretenses, so that people who want to satisfy their vanity by "proving" that great grandma was an Indian Princess. I like 23andme because it isn't one of those. Their claims don't outpace the science. It would be nice if their users did not overclaim on their behalf.
 
If you show up to your med school interview with a colorful printout from 23andme and an intent to prove your racial identification, you are not getting in, period.

Next, premeds on SDN will demand proof for LGBT people of their sexual orientation.
 
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If you show up to your med school interview with a colorful printout from 23andme and an intent to prove your racial identification, you are not getting in, period.

Next, premeds on SDN will demand proof for LGBT people of their sexual orientation.

Bringing video evidence of that would certainly not help. But it might make for some very interesting stories for adcoms to tell here.
 
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Hold on...

You guys are criticizing this guy for not acting Native American enough.
Did you read his story and see his familial circumstances?

Unfortunately his situation of absentee parents is not too uncommon amongst other Native Americans.

This person grew up without knowing their mother. That is not a joke

Shame on you all for being so quick to judge this person, when he has already dealt with struggles that 90% of applicants know nothin about.
 
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I mean did you not even read my post? My mother is already registered as half-breed with the Navajo nation... That means I'm at least a 4th.

I mean... a 30% greater chance of getting into medical school just for being a minority causes this issue... I have the blood of a diminished group of people... shouldn't I inherit what my ancestor's lost? Clearly other minorities are reaping the benefits... Why do I need to jump through hoops to prove I am Native American? Probably because there is no definitive phenotype or Native American features... No one can look at me and say I'm Navajo besides other Navajo people... most people think I'm a cross between half asian/half white or half mexican/half white... or white... Devil's advocate here... Sure too many people claim to be Native American and that's why there are laws that require proof... I have the paperwork... I just have to send it in. I'm going to regardless... I want to obtain my Indian number.

While I am sympathetic to the plight of Native American populations and the disgraceful conduct of white European populations toward them historically -- I fail to see how admitting you to medical school as opposed to some other "looks white" guy would benefit Native Americans. At this point, it's nothing more to you than an interesting genealogical tidbit that may provide you a self-serving benefit. Spend a year or two learning more about your culture. Learn what it means. Develop a love and bond for your heritage. Then claim it. When the benefit is to your people, not to yourself.
 
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You're 25% Navajo? You're going to have to go live in Window Rock for a few years and work on the big rez to convince me that you're not trying to play the URM card.

I'm going save you a lot of time because you're obviously not listening to gyngyn. Play the Navajo card and you'll get IIs and then lots of rejections.

Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk.

BTW, the Navajos were the only Native Americans whose reservation size got bigger after they were established.




I mean did you not even read my post? My mother is already registered as half-breed with the Navajo nation... That means I'm at least a 4th.

I mean... a 30% greater chance of getting into medical school just for being a minority causes this issue... I have the blood of a diminished group of people... shouldn't I inherit what my ancestor's lost? Clearly other minorities are reaping the benefits... Why do I need to jump through hoops to prove I am Native American? Probably because there is no definitive phenotype or Native American features... No one can look at me and say I'm Navajo besides other Navajo people... most people think I'm a cross between half asian/half white or half mexican/half white... or white... Devil's advocate here... Sure too many people claim to be Native American and that's why there are laws that require proof... I have the paperwork... I just have to send it in. I'm going to regardless... I want to obtain my Indian number.
 
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Hold on...

You guys are criticizing this guy for not acting Native American enough.
Did you read his story and see his familial circumstances?

Unfortunately his situation of absentee parents is not too uncommon amongst other Native Americans.

This person grew up without knowing their mother. That is not a joke

Shame on you all for being so quick to judge this person, when he has already dealt with struggles that 90% of applicants know nothin about.
I'm afraid you completely misunderstood the advice that was given to the OP. Having a hard upbringing doesn't give one a free pass to act unethically. Also, I wouldn't be so presumptuous to assume that you know anything about the backgrounds of strangers on the internet.
 
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