PRP for Jehovah Witnesses?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

drusso

Full Member
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
Joined
Nov 21, 1998
Messages
13,137
Reaction score
7,722
Are PRP injections for Jehovah Witness's Kosher?


"As transfusions of whole blood became common after World War II, Jehovah’s Witnesses saw that this was contrary to God’s law—and we still believe that. Yet, medicine has changed over time. Today, most transfusions are not of whole blood but of one of its primary components: (1) red cells; (2) white cells; (3) platelets; (4) plasma (serum), the fluid part. Depending on the condition of the patient, physicians might prescribe red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma. Transfusing these major components allows a single unit of blood to be divided among more patients. Jehovah’s Witnesses hold that accepting whole blood or any of those four primary components violates God’s law. Significantly, keeping to this Bible-based position has protected them from many risks, including such diseases as hepatitis and AIDS that can be contracted from blood.

However, since blood can be processed beyond those primary components, questions arise about fractions derived from the primary blood components. How are such fractions used, and what should a Christian consider when deciding on them?

Blood is complex. Even the plasma—which is 90 percent water—carries scores of hormones, inorganic salts, enzymes, and nutrients, including minerals and sugar. Plasma also carries such proteins as albumin, clotting factors, and antibodies to fight diseases. Technicians isolate and use many plasma proteins. For example, clotting factor VIII has been given to hemophiliacs, who bleed easily. Or if someone is exposed to certain diseases, doctors might prescribe injections of gamma globulin, extracted from the blood plasma of people who already had immunity. Other plasma proteins are used medically, but the above mentioned illustrate how a primary blood component (plasma) may be processed to obtain fractions.a

Just as blood plasma can be a source of various fractions, the other primary components (red cells, white cells, platelets) can be processed to isolate smaller parts. For example, white blood cells may be a source of interferons and interleukins, used to treat some viral infections and cancers.
Platelets can be processed to extract a wound-healing factor. And other medicines are coming along that involve (at least initially) extracts from blood components. Such therapies are not transfusions of those primary components; they usually involve parts or fractions thereof. Should Christians accept these fractions in medical treatment? We cannot say. The Bible does not give details, so a Christian must make his own conscientious decision before God.

Some would refuse anything derived from blood (even fractions intended to provide temporary passive immunity). That is how they understand God’s command to ‘abstain from blood.’ They reason that his law to Israel required that blood removed from a creature be ‘poured out on the ground.’ (Deuteronomy 12:22-24) Why is that relevant? Well, to prepare gamma globulin, blood-based clotting factors, and so on, requires that blood be collected and processed. Hence, some Christians reject such products, just as they reject transfusions of whole blood or of its four primary components. Their sincere, conscientious stand should be respected."
 
Are PRP injections for Jehovah Witness's Kosher?


"As transfusions of whole blood became common after World War II, Jehovah’s Witnesses saw that this was contrary to God’s law—and we still believe that. Yet, medicine has changed over time. Today, most transfusions are not of whole blood but of one of its primary components: (1) red cells; (2) white cells; (3) platelets; (4) plasma (serum), the fluid part. Depending on the condition of the patient, physicians might prescribe red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma. Transfusing these major components allows a single unit of blood to be divided among more patients. Jehovah’s Witnesses hold that accepting whole blood or any of those four primary components violates God’s law. Significantly, keeping to this Bible-based position has protected them from many risks, including such diseases as hepatitis and AIDS that can be contracted from blood.

However, since blood can be processed beyond those primary components, questions arise about fractions derived from the primary blood components. How are such fractions used, and what should a Christian consider when deciding on them?

Blood is complex. Even the plasma—which is 90 percent water—carries scores of hormones, inorganic salts, enzymes, and nutrients, including minerals and sugar. Plasma also carries such proteins as albumin, clotting factors, and antibodies to fight diseases. Technicians isolate and use many plasma proteins. For example, clotting factor VIII has been given to hemophiliacs, who bleed easily. Or if someone is exposed to certain diseases, doctors might prescribe injections of gamma globulin, extracted from the blood plasma of people who already had immunity. Other plasma proteins are used medically, but the above mentioned illustrate how a primary blood component (plasma) may be processed to obtain fractions.a

Just as blood plasma can be a source of various fractions, the other primary components (red cells, white cells, platelets) can be processed to isolate smaller parts. For example, white blood cells may be a source of interferons and interleukins, used to treat some viral infections and cancers.
Platelets can be processed to extract a wound-healing factor. And other medicines are coming along that involve (at least initially) extracts from blood components. Such therapies are not transfusions of those primary components; they usually involve parts or fractions thereof. Should Christians accept these fractions in medical treatment? We cannot say. The Bible does not give details, so a Christian must make his own conscientious decision before God.

Some would refuse anything derived from blood (even fractions intended to provide temporary passive immunity). That is how they understand God’s command to ‘abstain from blood.’ They reason that his law to Israel required that blood removed from a creature be ‘poured out on the ground.’ (Deuteronomy 12:22-24) Why is that relevant? Well, to prepare gamma globulin, blood-based clotting factors, and so on, requires that blood be collected and processed. Hence, some Christians reject such products, just as they reject transfusions of whole blood or of its four primary components. Their sincere, conscientious stand should be respected."
 
to answer y our question, my guess is a devout jehovah's witness wouldnt go for PRP
 
agree. based on that statement, if it is withdrawn from the patient, it has to be destroyed and not given back to the patient.

but you should go ask a Jehovah's witness and not us.
 
I actually had this exact conversation with a patient on Monday. She said she is going to consult with her church elders, first.

She asked me to give a presentation at her Kingdom Hall. Their community, along with the Seventh-day Adventists, is part of a self-funded health ministry. Crowdsourcing...if it saves the congregation just one knee replacement per year, it's a total winner for them. No prior auth required. The elders just pray about it.
 
Good luck moving the needle, but rigidity in devout religion is vital to its survival. If they allow this, then it’s a slippery slope to other pagan ungodly rituals.
 

Instead of your magic beans, they can have this stuff:

Reconstituted Dead Baby Dust. I'll stick to Real Regen:

Lane asked Pavesio: "So, what's in the secret sauce? You said it was ground-up placentas?" To which Pavesio replied that it contained about 300 different molecules which came from amnion, chorion, and umbilical cord tissue obtained from consented placental donation.
J Clin Med. 2024 Apr 28;13(9):2590.
doi: 10.3390/jcm13092590.

The Efficacy of Platelet-Rich Plasma Injection Therapy in Obese versus Non-Obese Patients with Knee Osteoarthritis: A Comparative Study​

Juho Aleksi Annaniemi 1 2 3, Jüri Pere 1, Salvatore Giordano 2 3
Affiliations collapse

Affiliations​

  • 1Department of Surgery, Welfare District of Forssa, 30100 Forssa, Finland.
  • 2Department of Surgery, Satasairaala Hospital, Satakunta Wellbeing Services County, 28500 Pori, Finland.
  • 3Department of Plastic and General Surgery, Turku University Hospital, The University of Turku, 20500 Turku, Finland.

Abstract​

Background/Objectives: Obesity is a common comorbidity in knee osteoarthritis (KOA) patients. Platelet-Rich Plasma (PRP) injection therapy may mitigate KOA. To further clarify potential patient selection for PRP injection therapy, we compared the outcomes in patients with different body mass index (BMI).
Methods: A total of 91 patients with mild to moderate KOA were treated with three intra-articular PRP injections at 10 to 14-day intervals. Range of motion (ROM), Western Ontario and McMaster Universities Osteoarthritis Index (WOMAC), and Visual Analogue Scale (VAS) were documented before and after the injections at 15 days, 6 months, 12 months, and at the last follow-up. Outcomes were compared between patients with a BMI over 30 kg/m2 (obese, n = 34) and under 30 kg/m2 (non-obese, n = 57).
Results: Significant difference during the follow-up was detected in WOMAC score at the last follow-up favouring BMI under 30 group [17.8 ± 18.8 versus 10.5 ± 11.7, p = 0.023]. The odds ratio (OR) in BMI over 30 kg/m2 group for total knee arthroplasty was 3.5 (95% CI 0.3-40.1, p = 0.553), and OR for any arthroplasty was 7.5 (95% CI 0.8-69.8, p = 0.085) compared to non-obese patients.
Conclusions: Obese patients benefitted from PRP injections in KOA but there is a minimal difference favouring non-obese patients in symptom alleviation in follow-up stages after 12 months. The risk of arthroplasty is higher for obese KOA patients.
Keywords: PRP; WOMAC; injection therapy; knee osteoarthritis; obesity; platelet-rich plasma.

"Obese patients receive some help and benefit from the PRP injections as non-obese in short follow-up, but the effects of PRP diminish quicker over time in obese patients, exposing them to a higher risk for arthroplasty than non-obese patients. In summary, the observed differences were minimal, indicating that obese patients experience outcomes comparable to those of non-obese individuals following autologous intra-articular leukocyte-rich PRP injections for mild to moderate symptomatic KOA. These findings underscore the potential efficacy of PRP therapy across diverse patient populations, irrespective of weight status. Identifying a patient who is at higher risk of arthroplasty may give the patient and physician time to make necessary interventions (weight loss, lifestyle) to reduce the surgical risk of arthroplasty or complication risks involved in the arthroplasty of an obese patient."

It's a winner for their health ministry and congregation if it saves them just 1-2 knee replacements annually.
 
but does it save them from knee replacement?

unfortunately, there was not a comparative placebo arm or steroid arm (standard of care arm?). so you cannot state that there was a decrease in knee replacements due to PRP from this study alone. there is no logical basis to make that statement.



limitations:
1. retrospective study. so not blinded and no control arm.
2. mild to moderate OA. did not test high grade, as the study states that previous studies have shown that PRP does not help with KL grade IV
3. obese group had more surgery but not statistically significant difference.



take home message of this study: do not use BMI to stratify whether to use PRP for mild to moderate OA.
 
I do remember in residency using cell saver for JW patients though. It was something about a continuous circuit, so the blood is not technically "leaving their body", IIRC?
this is so stupid

no less stupid than a devout jew who cant flick on a light switch, but can walk a mile to get to a synogogue

rules determined by some gaggle of "elders" who have no other role than to sit around and make sh$t up
 
I’ve done PRP twice on the same JW pt. Right hip.
 
but does it save them from knee replacement?

unfortunately, there was not a comparative placebo arm or steroid arm (standard of care arm?). so you cannot state that there was a decrease in knee replacements due to PRP from this study alone. there is no logical basis to make that statement.



limitations:
1. retrospective study. so not blinded and no control arm.
2. mild to moderate OA. did not test high grade, as the study states that previous studies have shown that PRP does not help with KL grade IV
3. obese group had more surgery but not statistically significant difference.



take home message of this study: do not use BMI to stratify whether to use PRP for mild to moderate OA.

It does. Even if it just puts it off 6 months the health ministry still makes money on the interest from not paying for the more expensive knee replacement.
 
“All about the money” says the hospital employed doc…
 
“All about the money” says the hospital employed doc…

It's time to "socialize" that juicy SOS payment and employer tax exemptions to the rest of the doctors who pay their "fair share" and see how the RVU monkeys like them apples.

Bye, bye 60 min HOPD cervical interlaminars with MAC for $3K
 
i have yet to find who is doing these 60 min cervical interlaminars.

but if they need that amount of time for patient safety, who are we to deny them?
 
i have yet to find who is doing these 60 min cervical interlaminars.

but if they need that amount of time for patient safety, who are we to deny them?
I’d love to see a study, but I’d posit that after 10 minutes of physician time, the safety profile of an interlam goes south pretty quickly.
 
he heard someone post about 5 years ago, and he has been clutching it to his chest like a teddy bear. i remember it. its red meat for him
 
he heard someone post about 5 years ago, and he has been clutching it to his chest like a teddy bear. i remember it. its red meat for him
1718986710614.png
 
I actually had this exact conversation with a patient on Monday. She said she is going to consult with her church elders, first.
So today she came back for visit #3 or 4 to discuss the ethical implications of this procedure and also gave me a pamphlet on how to save my soul. No idea if we will ever actually do the procedure.
 
So today she came back for visit #3 or 4 to discuss the ethical implications of this procedure and also gave me a pamphlet on how to save my soul. No idea if we will ever actually do the procedure.
If she can’t have PRP, neither can you!

That’s slightly more awkward than my patient trying to sell me her MLM skin care line
 
Top