PS vs EC

[ownage]

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I have seen many threads here on SDN. For example, one that compares GPA vs MCAT and another that compares secondary application vs primary application and many others.

But I have never seen one that compares EC vs PS. I mean could a compelling personal statement make up for a poor EC? Or can very good extra curricular activities make up for poorly written PS?

I am interested in what you guys have to say. I am thinking PS>EC. But I may just be biased because I do not have great ECs, at least compared to what most people here have.

 

[NickNaylor]

It's all important. The fact is that enough people apply that they will have excellent ECs AND an excellent PS. It's really not a fruitful discussion.

However, just for the sake of the (pointless) discussion I would say that ECs are more important than a PS. A PS is an essay you could've written in a week. ECs demonstrate long-term commitment (in theory) and would give adcoms a good idea of who you are based on how you spend your time.

 

[familyaerospace]

I would say a well-written PS since that is what is really going to tell an adcomm why you want to be a doctor. Everyone is probably going to have somewhat similar ECs (unless you're a non-trad then who knows about your ECs). Truth be told most will have a similar PS. A well-written PS will capture someone's attention.

 

[NotAsking4Much]

I would say a well-written PS since that is what is really going to tell an adcomm why you want to be a doctor. Everyone is probably going to have somewhat similar ECs (unless you're a non-trad then who knows about your ECs). Truth be told most will have a similar PS. A well-written PS will capture someone's attention.

I would argue EC >> PS.

I once talked to an admissions officer who told me that 70% are standard; they read so many of them that even what we consider to be stellar, they're already read and seen before. The PS won't dramatically hurt or help you but they just provide a clearer picture of you as an applicant, which it rightfully should.

29% try too hard to be cutesy or noticeable, English is noticeably bad, or write ideas like "I like bio so medicine..." These destroy your app.

The last <1% are actually amazing, but they usually revolve around life stories. One he told me about was a homeless child working his way into college, throughout college, and now into medical school. Very rare, but that's why they grab their attention. These make you stand out.

And I disagree with the somewhat similar ECs. SDN tends to fit people into molds, but some people I met along the interviewing trail did some rather remarkable things (starting a clinic in Somalia, working on Capitol hill on health policy for a few years, doing health economics in Rwanda on anti-retroviral's cost-effectiveness, writing health curriculum for a local school, etc).

 

[Dianyla]

I would tend to argue that solid interesting and meaningful ECs trump a well-written PS.

However, I'm also certain that a horribly written PS will tank your application.

 

[UNMorBUST]

EC=PS considering both can sink you.

 

[NickNaylor]

I would tend to argue that solid interesting and meaningful ECs trump a well-written PS.

However, I'm also certain that a horribly written PS will tank your application.

That's essentially how our pre-health advisor explained the PS. The fact is that very few applicants will present truly unique experiences that will make their application stand out. With that in mind, the PS can no longer really help you all that much, but it can very much hurt you.

I disagree with his analysis to a certain extent, but it does makes sense.

 

[familyaerospace]

Notasking4much, what you say is true about PS (I'm speaking as someone who has personally read over 150 as a PS reader) although I would say it's closer to 95% about being formulaic. Made me want to put a bullet through my brain if truth be told.

I was told by someone who, until recently was adcomm at Emory, that a good PS is more likely to make up for average ECs and less so viceversa. Sometimes they'll just toss them based on the PS (since they have so many to go through) and not look at most of the app. It's one of the reasons I worked on making a killer PS for next year of course mine is probably that "<1%" you mentioned but what is the point of writing the EC section, much less write it well, if no one might give them a chance?

If some of those things you mentioned are considered remarkable, you are doing quite a bit to boost my ego! Heck, if truth be told, I've done two things that are somewhat similar (one involved antimalarials in Kenya for example as part of one of my jobs and I wrote a space education curricula which was published last year) and am working on a third (a free clinic but it's in the US). All of them were right place, right time so I didn't go out looking for them and I was or am surrounded by pre-meds on all of them except for the space education one.

Anyway, I think it's important to have the ECs to be good too, but I would really polish that PS based on what the former Emory adcomm said. I know one of the medical schools by me (let's just say it has a very low LizzyM score according to all the worksheet) don't even really check your ECs and they are only concerned with PS, MCAT, and GPA.

Maybe it's a regional thing?

 

[NotAsking4Much]

I was told by someone who, until recently was adcomm at Emory, that a good PS is more likely to make up for average ECs and less so viceversa. Sometimes they'll just toss them based on the PS (since they have so many to go through) and not look at most of the app. It's one of the reasons I worked on making a killer PS for next year of course mine is probably that "<1%" you mentioned but what is the point of writing the EC section, much less write it well, if no one might give them a chance?

I think it probably depends on the school. Each adcomm or even interviewer has a different priority system. Some might find a PS to be more convincing than separated activities, others might find "actions speak louder than words." It's a toss-up. I don't understand why you can't have both though, it's not as if though spending some time on a PS is a huge opportunity cost to having good ECs.

If some of those things you mentioned are considered remarkable, you are doing quite a bit to boost my ego! Heck, if truth be told, I've done two things that are somewhat similar (one involved antimalarials in Kenya for example as part of one of my jobs and I wrote a space education curricula which was published last year) and am working on a third (a free clinic but it's in the US). All of them were right place, right time so I didn't go out looking for them and I was or am surrounded by pre-meds on all of them except for the space education one.

Good for you! It's probably cause you're an older applicant so you have more time to be opportunistic and do the things you have done. 😉
It's obviously no guarantee for any medical school, but I must say it's a healthy break from the stereotypical (50 hrs hospital volunteer and 200 hrs of shadowing) volunteer experiences. It's also important to have what I believe a good story or theme. Having 15 amazing but seemingly disconnected ECs doesn't help you that much either.

Good luck in your future endeavors!

 

[Dianyla]

Having 15 amazing but seemingly disconnected ECs doesn't help you that much either.

I disagree. I think it does help, as long as all of those amazing and seemingly random ECs are substantial activities. It probably means that you've followed your heart and done things with your time that you found personally meaningful, instead of finding some formulaic list of "Official ECs Every Premed Should Have" and ticking off the boxes. 🙄

 

[ownage]

Most people do not have amazing activities.

Most have usual volunteering hours
Usual shadowing hours
And may be some research,

Nothing spectacular.

I have seen good writing. Through a very well PS you can really move your reader. You can show qualities that you cannot show in EC. Through good writing, you can make the ad com go you know what I want to meet this person. And if you really connect with them, it can really make you even if your stats fall slightly below the average ( but not so below) or if you have below average EC but that meets the requirement of the school.

 

[pdxjazz]

Notasking4much, what you say is true about PS (I'm speaking as someone who has personally read over 150 as a PS reader) although I would say it's closer to 95% about being formulaic. Made me want to put a bullet through my brain if truth be told.

I was told by someone who, until recently was adcomm at Emory, that a good PS is more likely to make up for average ECs and less so viceversa. Sometimes they'll just toss them based on the PS (since they have so many to go through) and not look at most of the app. It's one of the reasons I worked on making a killer PS for next year of course mine is probably that "<1%" you mentioned but what is the point of writing the EC section, much less write it well, if no one might give them a chance?

If some of those things you mentioned are considered remarkable, you are doing quite a bit to boost my ego! Heck, if truth be told, I've done two things that are somewhat similar (one involved antimalarials in Kenya for example as part of one of my jobs and I wrote a space education curricula which was published last year) and am working on a third (a free clinic but it's in the US). All of them were right place, right time so I didn't go out looking for them and I was or am surrounded by pre-meds on all of them except for the space education one.

Anyway, I think it's important to have the ECs to be good too, but I would really polish that PS based on what the former Emory adcomm said. I know one of the medical schools by me (let's just say it has a very low LizzyM score according to all the worksheet) don't even really check your ECs and they are only concerned with PS, MCAT, and GPA.

Maybe it's a regional thing?

I find it hard to believe that any school would throw out a persons application based on skimmming over the personal statement. If so, they need to be fired. When you consider the years of effort an applicant goes through to get good grades, months of hard study and expense for the MCAT, as well as the hundreds of hours we rack up for ECs, I would hate to think it all comes down to who writes a better 1 page essay...

 

[Dianyla]

I find it hard to believe that any school would throw out a persons application based on skimmming over the personal statement. If so, they need to be fired. When you consider the years of effort an applicant goes through to get good grades, months of hard study and expense for the MCAT, as well as the hundreds of hours we rack up for ECs, I would hate to think it all comes down to who writes a better 1 page essay...

Never underestimate the talent that some people possess for showing their ass in remarkably few characters.

 

[NotAsking4Much]

I find it hard to believe that any school would throw out a persons application based on skimmming over the personal statement. If so, they need to be fired. When you consider the years of effort an applicant goes through to get good grades, months of hard study and expense for the MCAT, as well as the hundreds of hours we rack up for ECs, I would hate to think it all comes down to who writes a better 1 page essay...

First of all, many applicant reviewers are full time academics or clinicians. They are assigned a pile every week or so to read; it's not like they just do this for a full time job. So the time they actually have to read is limited.

Each school gets 6000 or so applicants. Do the math...

Reviewers are literally looking for reasons to throw you out. Yes it's sad they that might disregard your PS despite your entire app, but always remember that people will have a similar app as you WITH a good PS.

Also if the applicant spends hundreds of hours to get good grades/ECs, etc. hopefully they have another 10-20 hours extra to spend on writing a good PS.

 

[familyaerospace]

pdxjazz

I don't know if you are on the preallo reader's list, but if you aren't, I suggest getting on it just to be exposed to a lot of personal statements. Being on that list for a few months gave me new respect for what adcomms go through year after year. After that experience, I can completely believe what the former adcomms I've heard from have said about the importance of a personal statement.

As NotAsking4Much said, a lot of times it is simply a matter of a ton of apps to read and not a lot of time to do it in. They are looking to throw apps out for any reason. Technically they start with the MCAT/GPA cutoff, then it's PS. If you can remove 30% or more of your pile just because of the statement, you just cut down your work by a fair amount. With the various lists on SDN with volunteer editors, there is really NO reason why someone can't produce a reasonably good if not stellar PS. Everyone's path is different and everyone has their own reasons for wanting this path. It's just trying to find out the best way to make the adcomms want to, at least, learn more about you.

This focus on writing is not just for medical schools. It's graduate school as well. It can even be like that to a lesser extent in the business world.
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