PSA: don’t cheat

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

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I’m tired of seeing a thread each week about someone who cheats but “didn’t know” they were cheating.

The world doesn’t work like that. Your intentions don’t matter, your actions do.

When in doubt, just take the hit to your grade. If you don’t know whether or not you are allowed to collaborate on your assignment, just do it yourself. Going from an A- to a B- (which is probably the most exaggerated and rare scenario) is 10000000000000 times better than getting an I.A.

What’s worse is when someone cheats just for an extra point. The excuse is usually “it’s just one point so the professor won’t care”. My response is: well if it’s just one point then why do you want to put your ENTIRE career at risk for it?

 

[JustinSane]

The older I get, the more truth I find in the statement "there are no shortcuts"

Even if someone gets away with cheating a few times...they are doing themselves a disservice in the long run.

There will come a day when cheating begins to put others well-being on the line, not just their own.

 

[dr_kateb]

I'm not. I just got finished reading the last one and it was hilarious. It's a pretty big part of why I'm on here to be honest.

 

[PhilzCoffeeAddict]

I agree. Back in college, it ate away at me when I saw people cheating. I was so mad all the time. But now I appreciate the hardwork I put in. I'm glad I found peace with no longer comparing myself to others and just focusing on myself. Don't cheat people. It just hurts in the long run for the patient, your career, probably your family. Thanks SDN for reassuring there are good people out there.

 

[ineedhelpplse]

I agree. Back in college, it ate away at me when I saw people cheating. I was so mad all the time. But now I appreciate the hardwork I put in. I'm glad I found peace with no longer comparing myself to others and just focusing on myself. Don't cheat people. It just hurts in the long run for the patient, your career, probably your family. Thanks SDN for reassuring there are good people out there.

I’m still trying to get to the point where I don’t compare myself with others. Hopefully I’ll get there one day...

 

[bananafish94]

There is a lot of value in doing things the right way. Just as an example, applying to medical school was a miserable experience for me and I only barely made it in. But I did make it in, and that's all on me. So every time it gets particularly hard and I start doubting myself I remember that I'm here because I worked hard and I didn't take any shortcuts. I didn't take Adderall or get the previous year's exam from some upperclassman or anything like that, I did it by myself and got accepted on my own merit. And that's actually a very comforting thought - I like to think that if I wasn't capable of succeeding, they wouldn't have accepted me. But they did, so I am.

 

[freedoctor17]

That last thread was a bit ridiculous. What kind of online take home exam tracks your tabs. People could easily use another device and get around that. I feel like that might've been a troll. Fortunately my online classes have professors who straight up tell us it's all open notes and we can use any all our resources rather than playing games with the students by tracking their computer... Might as well give them a written exam in class at that point.

 

[21Rush12]

There is a lot of value in doing things the right way. Just as an example, applying to medical school was a miserable experience for me and I only barely made it in. But I did make it in, and that's all on me. So every time it gets particularly hard and I start doubting myself I remember that I'm here because I worked hard and I didn't take any shortcuts. I didn't take Adderall or get the previous year's exam from some upperclassman or anything like that, I did it by myself and got accepted on my own merit. And that's actually a very comforting thought - I like to think that if I wasn't capable of succeeding, they wouldn't have accepted me. But they did, so I am.

This.

I wish I could like it 5 times.

 

[Piglet2020]

You know what grinds my gears?
When lazy people in group projects don't do anything and they just stamp their names on the finished work, while the rest of us have to work double... AND they're not called out for cheating. I feel like this should be considered cheating...it's pretty much the same as copying a classmate's project.

 

[freedoctor17]

You know what grinds my gears?
When lazy people in group projects don't do anything and they just stamp their names on the finished work, while the rest of us have to work double... AND they're not called out for cheating. I feel like this should be considered cheating...it's pretty much the same as copying a classmate's project.

But how would the professors know unless you told them? Which if you did they'd probably not get credit. But I'd recommend you talk to people like that first before going to a professor. If they still do nothing then they had their chance.

 

[Disciple of Sattar]

That last thread was a bit ridiculous. What kind of online take home exam tracks your tabs. People could easily use another device and get around that. I feel like that might've been a troll. Fortunately my online classes have professors who straight up tell us it's all open notes and we can use any all our resources rather than playing games with the students by tracking their computer... Might as well give them a written exam in class at that point.

This is very common. Most of my online exams also required the use of a computer with a webcam so a proctoring service could make sure you weren't using books/notes/people for help either. And the instructors do tell you either way, in the thread you are referring to the OP was explicitly aware that the exam was closed book and the exam website/software would have clearly stated that it would track the use of other applications/tabs/windows.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is very common. Most of my online exams also required the use of a computer with a webcam so a proctoring service could make sure you weren't using books/notes/people for help either.

Of all the classes I’ve taken with online tests and quizzes, only one has had something like that—and it was just a browser lockdown that prevented you from opening other tabs or programs (you couldn’t have PowerPoint or word open while using the browser).

 

[KnuxNole]

You know what grinds my gears?
When lazy people in group projects don't do anything and they just stamp their names on the finished work, while the rest of us have to work double... AND they're not called out for cheating. I feel like this should be considered cheating...it's pretty much the same as copying a classmate's project.

I dunno if I would call that cheating.

This will continue in your career. Not everyone puts in equal effort in group work. Lots of people like to be carried by one or two workhouses of the group.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Maybe it's just my undergrad, but the 3 or 4 online only classes I took all had it. It possibly also contributed to the fact that those classes didn't have any sort of "online only" designation on my transcript even though I never stepped foot in a classroom for them. They were listed exactly the same as the classroom versions.

So were all of mine. The only one that had anything like that was an in-person class where we took an online quiz each week through blackboard.

 

[SuaveCardigans]

There is a lot of value in doing things the right way. Just as an example, applying to medical school was a miserable experience for me and I only barely made it in. But I did make it in, and that's all on me. So every time it gets particularly hard and I start doubting myself I remember that I'm here because I worked hard and I didn't take any shortcuts. I didn't take Adderall or get the previous year's exam from some upperclassman or anything like that, I did it by myself and got accepted on my own merit. And that's actually a very comforting thought - I like to think that if I wasn't capable of succeeding, they wouldn't have accepted me. But they did, so I am.

This made me appreciate my acceptance a lot more. I think everyone should take a moment to reflect on it before starting med school/aim for it if youre still premed!

 

[dr_kateb]

Of all the classes I’ve taken with online tests and quizzes, only one has had something like that—and it was just a browser lockdown that prevented you from opening other tabs or programs (you couldn’t have PowerPoint or word open while using the browser).

Was this test done on your own time? Couldn’t you just whip your phone out or some other device?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Was this test done on your own time? Couldn’t you just whip your phone out or some other device?

It was done at home. You totally could. They went by the honor system. Everyone in the class is military, so they probably just assume we did them “in accordance with,” as we say in the Navy.

 

[BucketDoctor]

If there ever was a "Ten Commandments of a Pre-Med Student" should follow, you shall not cheat would probably be number one. I don't know about the other ones though.

PS. I wanted to comment on the original thread. Why do all the threads I want to comment on are always locked? Sigh..me and my bad luck.

 

[Isoval]

I agree. Back in college, it ate away at me when I saw people cheating. I was so mad all the time. But now I appreciate the hardwork I put in. I'm glad I found peace with no longer comparing myself to others and just focusing on myself. Don't cheat people. It just hurts in the long run for the patient, your career, probably your family. Thanks SDN for reassuring there are good people out there.

It’s never really eaten at me.

Those are the people I look at and think, “Haha, well, good luck on the MCAT”

 

[Moose A Moose]

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I think it's very important to recognize the spectrum aspect of academic dishonesty in order to tackle the various aspects of it. Of course there is the obvious side that is point-blank: getting someone to take a test for you, turning in a paper that is completely written by someone else. But then there is the more gray side of it: for example, collaborating on an assignment or using outside sources on a take home exam when the professor doesn't explicitly prohibit doing so.

I think that pre-meds should be more educated on the gray side and should have a better conceptual understanding of how they should go about things in gray areas and should be given a boost of confidence to ask the professor before doing any harmful actions. Any adcoms (@HomeSkool , @Goro , @LizzyM ) wanna make a thread that will help SDN pre-meds in this regard to prevent future "mishaps"?

 

[dr_kateb]

I think it's very important to recognize the spectrum aspect of academic dishonesty in order to tackle the various aspects of it. Of course there is the obvious side that is point-blank: getting someone to take a test for you, turning in a paper that is completely written by someone else. But then there is the more gray side of it: for example, collaborating on an assignment or using outside sources on a take home exam when the professor doesn't explicitly prohibit doing so.

I think that pre-meds should be more educated on the gray side and should have a better conceptual understanding of how they should go about things in gray areas and should be given a boost of confidence to ask the professor before doing any harmful actions. Any adcoms (@HomeSkool , @Goro , @LizzyM ) wanna make a thread that will help SDN pre-meds in this regard to prevent future "mishaps"?

Pretty sure they’ve already said that if you have any doubt of academic dishonesty that falls in that “gray” area you just do it by yourself, and I agree. I’ve been doing this my whole life. Asking for help is for the weak anyway. I don’t need nobody.

 

[Microbug]

I think it's very important to recognize the spectrum aspect of academic dishonesty in order to tackle the various aspects of it. Of course there is the obvious side that is point-blank: getting someone to take a test for you, turning in a paper that is completely written by someone else. But then there is the more gray side of it: for example, collaborating on an assignment or using outside sources on a take home exam when the professor doesn't explicitly prohibit doing so.

I think that pre-meds should be more educated on the gray side and should have a better conceptual understanding of how they should go about things in gray areas and should be given a boost of confidence to ask the professor before doing any harmful actions. Any adcoms (@HomeSkool , @Goro , @LizzyM ) wanna make a thread that will help SDN pre-meds in this regard to prevent future "mishaps"?

Cheating is cheating. There is no gray area. Some people do it and others don’t. It’s a waste of time for either side to try to convince the other.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Cheating is cheating. There is no gray area. Some people do it and others don’t. It’s a waste of time for either side to try to convince the other.

Then why are there situations where some professors believe it’s constitutes cheating and others don’t.

 

[Microbug]

Then why are there situations where some professors believe it’s constitutes cheating and others don’t.

Some are willing to turn a blind eye and others aren’t.

 

[bluemamba7]

Can't believe we've entered a time where such an obvious statement actually needs to be addressed, smh :_(

 

[freedoctor17]

Some are willing to turn a blind eye and others aren’t.

Idk, some scenarios can have a gray area. Like if a professor tells you a take home exam is open book and you can use any resources then doesn't say not to work together I'd wonder if that was allowed. Now the easiest way to know is just to ask them lol so I guess you're right there's not really a gray area if you ask.

 

[MDPedigree]

In my bio lab classes, almost everyone cheated. Everyone used old lab reports. I refused to because of my integrity, but many of the people in my class went on to US MD Schools, some to even top tier schools. You have to be extremely naive to think that there aren't plenty of cheaters in med school, and so for that reason I can understand sympathizing for someone who got caught. That's why though you're better safe than sorry by not cheating.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Idk, some scenarios can have a gray area. Like if a professor tells you a take home exam is open book and you can use any resources then doesn't say not to work together I'd wonder if that was allowed. Now the easiest way to know is just to ask them lol so I guess you're right there's not really a gray area if you ask.

There’s no gray area. Either you cheat or you don’t. If you collaborate on something and the professor is okay with that, then it’s not cheating.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

In my bio lab classes, almost everyone cheated. Everyone used old lab reports. I refused to because of my integrity, but many of the people in my class went on to US MD Schools, some to even top tier schools. You have to be extremely naive to think that there aren't plenty of cheaters in med school, and so for that reason I can understand sympathizing for someone who got caught. That's why though you're better safe than sorry by not cheating.

They still chose to cheat despite knowing the consequences. It sucks that they decided to risk throwing away their chance at med school, but it was still a decision they made.

 

[freedoctor17]

There’s no gray area. Either you cheat or you don’t. If you collaborate on something and the professor is okay with that, then it’s not cheating.

I just meant if the professor doesn't specify at all but then I realized Midway through typing that a quick email would solve that lol and so I agree

 

[Anti-PD1]

I've seen cheating as well, and it bothered me at the time. A group of students would signal each other during tests in our anatomy class in college. I was invited into the circle and declined.

One of those people is now a plastic surgery resident at a top program.

People slip by sometimes.

 

[dr_kateb]

In my bio lab classes, almost everyone cheated. Everyone used old lab reports. I refused to because of my integrity, but many of the people in my class went on to US MD Schools, some to even top tier schools. You have to be extremely naive to think that there aren't plenty of cheaters in med school, and so for that reason I can understand sympathizing for someone who got caught. That's why though you're better safe than sorry by not cheating.

I've seen cheating as well, and it bothered me at the time. A group of students would signal each other during tests in our anatomy class in college. I was invited into the circle and declined.

One of those people is now a plastic surgery resident at a top program.

People slip by sometimes.

So what I'm getting here is don't get caught.

Also Jesse James dropped it.

 

[Anti-PD1]

So what I'm getting here is don't get caught.

Also Jesse James dropped it.

Sadly it seems so, not worth it all things considered.

Not even gonna touch that other comment. 🙂

 

[STcmOCSD]

All the people I got frustrated with because they cheated in college, when I was working fairly, are now being denied acceptances into med school. Meanwhile I’m accepted into my top choice. Cheaters may benefit in the short term, but long term it will catch up to them.

 

[altblue]

One guy had an old lab report in front of him in lab with answers to analysis questions...and I barely cleared an A-

I considered reporting him, talked to a friend about it but realized it wasn't worth jeopardizing his career

 

[MDPedigree]

One guy had an old lab report in front of him in lab with answers to analysis questions...and I barely cleared an A-

I considered reporting him, talked to a friend about it but realized it wasn't worth jeopardizing his career

You're a kind-hearted guy.

 

[altblue]

You're a kind-hearted guy.

Lol, I just wouldn't want someone to be stuck with a useless biology degree because they cheated in a 1 credit course.

 

[MDPedigree]

Lol, I just wouldn't want someone to be stuck with a useless biology degree because they cheated in a 1 credit course.

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who would have reported him. I can definitely see both sides to the argument, and your side definitely is more humanistic. Good for you!

 

[907906]

I get so so angry when I see people cheat. I understand people who say that it'll get to them at some point in their lives but my problem with that phrase is the part "at some point in their lives". I don't care if Sally the Student cheats her way through undergrad, but if she gets into a med school and I don't.... THATS when I get really angry. I don't wanna know how it's still gonna get to her later in her career etc, when the only thing I care about right now (as a pre-med) is getting into medical school and whether or not their cheating is gonna get them the MD spot I was fighting for as well.

 

[altblue]

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who would have reported him. I can definitely see both sides to the argument, and your side definitely is more humanistic. Good for you!

Thanks!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who would have reported him. I can definitely see both sides to the argument, and your side definitely is more humanistic. Good for you!

Until he takes a shortcut in practice and harms a patient. Dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students, as @Goro likes to say.

 

[Goro]

You know what grinds my gears?
When lazy people in group projects don't do anything and they just stamp their names on the finished work, while the rest of us have to work double... AND they're not called out for cheating. I feel like this should be considered cheating...it's pretty much the same as copying a classmate's project.

There's a very simple solution for this. Group evaluation. Each member of the group is evaluation by all the others. Now, it's probable that you will get a collective "You all give me a 95 and I'll give you all a 95" gestalt, but most people resent the lazy gliding on their own hard work.

I think it's very important to recognize the spectrum aspect of academic dishonesty in order to tackle the various aspects of it. Of course there is the obvious side that is point-blank: getting someone to take a test for you, turning in a paper that is completely written by someone else. But then there is the more gray side of it: for example, collaborating on an assignment or using outside sources on a take home exam when the professor doesn't explicitly prohibit doing so.

I think that pre-meds should be more educated on the gray side and should have a better conceptual understanding of how they should go about things in gray areas and should be given a boost of confidence to ask the professor before doing any harmful actions. Any adcoms (@HomeSkool , @Goro , @LizzyM ) wanna make a thread that will help SDN pre-meds in this regard to prevent future "mishaps"?

If I have to write a guide to how to not cheat, then I'm retiring first. People know the difference between right and wrong, it's just that some don't care. F 'em. They don't deserve to be doctors.

In my bio lab classes, almost everyone cheated. Everyone used old lab reports. I refused to because of my integrity, but many of the people in my class went on to US MD Schools, some to even top tier schools. You have to be extremely naive to think that there aren't plenty of cheaters in med school, and so for that reason I can understand sympathizing for someone who got caught. That's why though you're better safe than sorry by not cheating.

This is on the Professor's head. S/he is just being lazy by not coming up with new assignments. When I was in grad school, I was a TA for my subject for the med student's lab for a time. The lab instructor used the same cases and questions year after year. You know what the obvious result was. But one time I really got steamed because when it was "David's" turn to give his answer, he just threw out the answer without any thinking process. It was obvious he simply looked up the answer from the previous labs. I gave him a C for the lab.

All the people I got frustrated with because they cheated in college, when I was working fairly, are now being denied acceptances into med school. Meanwhile I’m accepted into my top choice. Cheaters may benefit in the short term, but long term it will catch up to them.

And they also can't cheat their way through the MCAT, nor Boards.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

There's a very simple solution for this. Group evaluation. Each member of the group is evaluation by all the others. Now, it's probable that you will get a collective "You all give me a 95 and I'll give you all a 95" gestalt, but most people resent the lazy gliding on their own hard work.



If I have to write a guide to how to not cheat, then I'm retiring first. People know the difference between right and wrong, it's just that some don't care. F 'em. They don't deserve to be doctors.


This is on the Professor's head. S/he is just being lazy by not coming up with new assignments. When I was in grad school, I was a TA for my subject for the med student's lab for a time. The lab instructor used the same cases and questions year after year. You know what the obvious result was. But one time I really got steamed because when it was "David's" turn to give his answer, he just threw out the answer without any thinking process. It was obvious he simply looked up the answer from the previous labs. I gave him a C for the lab.



And they also can't cheat their way through the MCAT, nor Boards.

However, I do believe that there are grey areas that aren't cheating but can be interpreted as cheating.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

However, I do believe that there are grey areas that aren't cheating but can be interpreted as cheating.

Such as?

 

[It's lupus!]

You know what grinds my gears?
When lazy people in group projects don't do anything and they just stamp their names on the finished work, while the rest of us have to work double... AND they're not called out for cheating. I feel like this should be considered cheating...it's pretty much the same as copying a classmate's project.

Hey kind of like research papers! lol

Sent from my Pixel XL using SDN mobile

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Such as?

I've had professors give online homework and then halfway through the semester claimed that using the textbook while doing homework is cheating.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I've had professors give online homework and then halfway through the semester claimed that using the textbook while doing homework is cheating.

A) how is using a textbook for homework cheating?

B) If it’s not in the syllabus and not put out by the professor, it isn’t cheating. If he later announces it is, then so be it. But it isn’t like he can enforce it retroactively.

 

[dr_kateb]

Had a physics teacher in high school that used problems from a test bank that was on google. Simpler times...

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

A) how is using a textbook for homework cheating?

B) If it’s not in the syllabus and not put out by the professor, it isn’t cheating. If he later announces it is, then so be it. But it isn’t like he can enforce it retroactively.

Yeah that's my point. The professor said it was cheating but it was ambiguous.

My point is that it's naive to think that there isn't a grey area when it comes to cheating.