psych as a second residency

[psychtoobe]

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I am an AMG with good board scores who always wanted to do psychiatry but became sidetracked and did another residency instead. I wanted to switch to psych during med school but I had family emergency during that time plus my PD suggested that if I stayed I can do a fellowship in brain injury rehab which is somehow related to psych. I completed my residency this year and now half way through my fellowship; and even though I enjoy TBI fellowship more than my residency, I’m still unfulfilled and there is still a desire and passion for psych because I truly believe iit is my true calling. I want to start psych residency when I complete this fellowship in July.

Questions for anyone who can help
1. Do you know any psych programs that’s willing accept someone who has already completed a first residency?
2. Is it too late to apply for starting this year?
3. Do I need to go through the match for next year?
4. I’ve passed my step one of my board certification and step 2 is in May and frankly, I don’t care for doing it as I don’t plan on practicising my primary specialty, Any thoughts on whether or not to get board certified?

Thanks.

 

[vistaril]

I am an AMG with good board scores who always wanted to do psychiatry but became sidetracked and did another residency instead. I wanted to switch to psych during med school but I had family emergency during that time plus my PD suggested that if I stayed I can do a fellowship in brain injury rehab which is somehow related to psych. I completed my residency this year and now half way through my fellowship; and even though I enjoy TBI fellowship more than my residency, I’m still unfulfilled and there is still a desire and passion for psych because I truly believe iit is my true calling. I want to start psych residency when I complete this fellowship in July.

Questions for anyone who can help
1. Do you know any psych programs that’s willing accept someone who has already completed a first residency?
.

Honestly I wonder how many of these questions are real......of course most programs(a few may be sqeamish but only because of the cms funding issue, which really has nothing to do with psych itself) are glad to have people who want to do psych who are board eligble already in other specialties.....we're running at 40%+ non-amg grads now, and you're honestly asking if an AMG grad who is fellowship trained would have any interest from psych programs?

 

[psychtoobe]

Honestly I wonder how many of these questions are real......of course most programs(a few may be sqeamish but only because of the cms funding issue, which really has nothing to do with psych itself) are glad to have people who want to do psych who are board eligble already in other specialties.....we're running at 40%+ non-amg grads now, and you're honestly asking if an AMG grad who is fellowship trained would have any interest from psych programs?

It's mainly the funding issue that's worrying me. Because I've read over and over again in different forums that CMS does not fund a second residency. I appreciate your input. Any takers for the other questions?

1. Is it too late to apply for starting this year?
2. . Do I need to go through the match for next year?
3. Does anyone know of programs that have PGY2 openings/spots or that usually do?

 

[BobA]

It's mainly the funding issue that's worrying me. Because I've read over and over again in different forums that CMS does not fund a second residency. I appreciate your input. Any takers for the other questions?

1. Is it too late to apply for starting this year?
2. . Do I need to go through the match for next year?
3. Does anyone know of programs that have PGY2 openings/spots or that usually do?

1) It's probably too late for this year - check out the NRMP/ERAS websites to confirm. I believe med student rank lists are due 2/20, so there might be a longshot you could sneak in but it's a long shot. I don't know when programs have to have there lists in by.

2) You would have much more choice next year. Many programs take re-treads (I think the CMS funding issue gets a little overblown. I believe some places get funding through the VA or affiliated hospitals that pays for residents without the cap on # years).

3) Search these forums for a list of programs.

 

[psychtoobe]

1) It's probably too late for this year - check out the NRMP/ERAS websites to confirm. I believe med student rank lists are due 2/20, so there might be a longshot you could sneak in but it's a long shot. I don't know when programs have to have there lists in by.

2) You would have much more choice next year. Many programs take re-treads (I think the CMS funding issue gets a little overblown. I believe some places get funding through the VA or affiliated hospitals that pays for residents without the cap on # years).

3) Search these forums for a list of programs.

Thanks for your post. If its too late for this year, then I'll probably plan on doing locums work when I finish fellowship to start paying back med school loans and get time off before starting another residency. I will search the forum for these programs are "second-residency friendly"

I welcome any other comments /variations of answers to my original questions.

 

[splik]

have a look here for vacancies: http://apps.psychiatry.org/clearinghouse/Default.aspx

programs that specifically have had PGY-2 spots in the past including UW, Yale, Hopkins, Shepherd Pratt, UNM, Stanford. UCSD often had PGY-2 spots also. There are others that would be happy for you to join as a PGY-2, most people would not start at the PGY-1 level. You should email programs you're interested in to see whether they have vacancies or would consider you. The whole funding thing isn't really an issue at major psych residency departments. many programs have more residents than they get CMS funding for.

oh and make sure you have 1 LoR from a psychiatrist.

 

[psychtoobe]

have a look here for vacancies: http://apps.psychiatry.org/clearinghouse/Default.aspx

programs that specifically have had PGY-2 spots in the past including UW, Yale, Hopkins, Shepherd Pratt, UNM, Stanford. UCSD often had PGY-2 spots also. There are others that would be happy for you to join as a PGY-2, most people would not start at the PGY-1 level. You should email programs you're interested in to see whether they have vacancies or would consider you. The whole funding thing isn't really an issue at major psych residency departments. many programs have more residents than they get CMS funding for.

oh and make sure you have 1 LoR from a psychiatrist.

Thanks for the link and the advice. It's certainly good to know that funding is not a major obstacle. I will contact the openings listed on the APA site.

 

[hamstergang]

Seems you already have your answer, but the setup to your post makes no sense to me.

always wanted to do psychiatry but became sidetracked and did another residency instead.

Getting so sidetracked that you end up applying to and completing another residency sounds like you didn't always want to do psych.

I wanted to switch to psych during med school but I had family emergency during that time

Switch during med school? Like, before you actually applied to and ranked programs? Also seems weird if you were always wanting psych. I'm also unsure how a family emergency could interfere at this stage.

 

[psychtoobe]

Seems you already have your answer, but the setup to your post makes no sense to me.



Getting so sidetracked that you end up applying to and completing another residency sounds like you didn't always want to do psych.



Switch during med school? Like, before you actually applied to and ranked programs? Also seems weird if you were always wanting psych. I'm also unsure how a family emergency could interfere at this stage.

I can understand how someone might see ithings the way you see it but the truth is I've always wanted to do psych.
Oh and I actually went through ERAS again, while in residency and offered a position from one of the elite programs outide the match but I had to turn it down at that time beause it meant I had to relocate and that happened to be when the family emergency occured.
I pray you never have any family problems or anyone sick in your family becaue until you actually do, you cannot understand the impact that this may have on your life plans.

 

[hamstergang]

I pray you never have any family problems or anyone sick in your family becaue until you actually do, you cannot understand the impact that this may have on your life plans.

No, I get how it can mess with your life's plans, but I don't see how it makes you apply to, interview at, and then rank one specialty when you really want to do another. And then stay there for several years instead of trying to switch to a psych program in the same area.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Thanks for the link and the advice. It's certainly good to know that funding is not a major obstacle. I will contact the openings listed on the APA site.

Funding will certainly be an issue at many places. You have used up your funding by completing a residency as I understand it.

A friend of mine that has completed an ob/gyn residency applied to psych this year. I recommended him to my PD, but the funding problem blocked any chance of an interview. He is an excellent applicant otherwise. My program is pretty competitive compared to many psych programs though.

 

[psychtoobe]

Funding will certainly be an issue at many places. You have used up your funding by completing a residency as I understand it.

A friend of mine that has completed an ob/gyn residency applied to psych this year. I recommended him to my PD, but the funding problem blocked any chance of an interview. He is an excellent applicant otherwise. My program is pretty competitive compared to many psych programs though.

Thanks for the info. So what happened to your friend, did she find another program to take her or did she give up on her psych dreams?

 

[vistaril]

Funding will certainly be an issue at many places. You have used up your funding by completing a residency as I understand it.

A friend of mine that has completed an ob/gyn residency applied to psych this year. I recommended him to my PD, but the funding problem blocked any chance of an interview. He is an excellent applicant otherwise. My program is pretty competitive compared to many psych programs though.

arent you at scott and white? I wouldnt consider that a pretty competitive program....moreso than some, much less than others. but overall not competitive for a semi-decent applicant. I've heard good things about it though in terms of the clinical training and atmosphere.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Thanks for the info. So what happened to your friend, did she find another program to take her or did she give up on her psych dreams?

He is currently applying.

 

[TexasPhysician]

arent you at scott and white? I wouldnt consider that a pretty competitive program....moreso than some, much less than others. but overall not competitive for a semi-decent applicant. I've heard good things about it though in terms of the clinical training and atmosphere.

You are thinking of a different poster. Average step 1 of last group of interns was 230's here. This year may turn out to be higher. Lots of high scoring AMG's interviewing this year. This is why i qualified my funding concerns. Again - not the most competitive but more competitive than some. I'm sure my buddy will match somewhere but his options are more limited.

 

[vistaril]

You are thinking of a different poster. Average step 1 of last group of interns was 230's here. This year may turn out to be higher. Lots of high scoring AMG's interviewing this year. This is why i qualified my funding concerns. Again - not the most competitive but more competitive than some. I'm sure my buddy will match somewhere but his options are more limited.

I thought the most competitive texas programs were baylor and utsw, and I certainly wouldn't believe either is in the top 25 in the country in this respect.......maybe not even top 35.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I thought the most competitive texas programs were baylor and utsw, and I certainly wouldn't believe either is in the top 25 in the country in this respect.......maybe not even top 35.

I could disagree with you on all accounts, but competitive is a subjective term. Unless we can pull data of average test scores for every resident in the country, I'm not sure anyone can produce a remotely accurate list of competitiveness. This is why I generalized my statement by saying my program is more competitive than some and not the 13th most competitive in the country. That Baylor comment is just plain funny in this area of the country.

For all I know, programs like Harvard have tons of money to take unfunded applicants. Many psych programs are not rolling in money though and funding from resident spots is not negligible. More competitive psych programs can thus be more picky and select out unfunded, FMG's, IMG's, blondes, or whatever other characteristic they don't perceive to be ideal.

 

[vistaril]

I could disagree with you on all accounts, but competitive is a subjective term. Unless we can pull data of average test scores for every resident in the country, I'm not sure anyone can produce a remotely accurate list of competitiveness. This is why I generalized my statement by saying my program is more competitive than some and not the 13th most competitive in the country. That Baylor comment is just plain funny in this area of the country.

For all I know, programs like Harvard have tons of money to take unfunded applicants. Many psych programs are not rolling in money though and funding from resident spots is not negligible. More competitive psych programs can thus be more picky and select out unfunded, FMG's, IMG's, blondes, or whatever other characteristic they don't perceive to be ideal.

well sure...of course it's not reasonable to come up with such an accurate list. There are over 100(120?) psych programs in the country....by definition almost any program is going to be more competitive than some and less competitive than some. I just don't know of any programs in texas that for good applicants would be seen as a very competitive place. I mean this is psychiatry.

 

[psychtoobe]

He is currently applying.

Does that mean he was able to get some interviews?

 

[psychtoobe]

You are thinking of a different poster. Average step 1 of last group of interns was 230's here. This year may turn out to be higher. Lots of high scoring AMG's interviewing this year. This is why i qualified my funding concerns. Again - not the most competitive but more competitive than some. I'm sure my buddy will match somewhere but his options are more limited.

Does that mean some places interviewed him? just asking to see what my chances are. BTW, my Step scores were >230s

Thanks

 

[TexasPhysician]

Does that mean he was able to get some interviews?

Of course. It isn't that he doesn't have a great CV. It is that he has poor funding as someone doing a 2nd residency.

 

[TexasPhysician]

. I just don't know of any programs in texas that for good applicants would be seen as a very competitive place. I mean this is psychiatry.

You are arguing relativity. By your statement above, you could easily extrapolate that there are no competitive programs between California and New York.

My point is that competitiveness is a spectrum in psychiatry. Some programs in Texas struggle to get any quality applicants from any country. Others in Texas can choose not to rank AMG's with 230+ scores or interview IMG/FMG's at all. I consider that to be a strong competitive gap. Is any program in Texas as competitive as MGH? - Obviously not.

 

[Superpsych]

You are arguing relativity. By your statement above, you could easily extrapolate that there are no competitive programs between California and New York.

My point is that competitiveness is a spectrum in psychiatry. Some programs in Texas struggle to get any quality applicants from any country. Others in Texas can choose not to rank AMG's with 230+ scores or interview IMG/FMG's at all. I consider that to be a strong competitive gap. Is any program in Texas as competitive as MGH? - Obviously not.

He is just saying that "competitiveness" of a program is the ability to be more selective than others with their applicants

Not that any of this has to do with being an amazing future psychiatrist 😀

Anyway didn't everyone say they wanted a playoff for the psych programs?

 

[klonopin]

You are arguing relativity. By your statement above, you could easily extrapolate that there are no competitive programs between California and New York.

My point is that competitiveness is a spectrum in psychiatry. Some programs in Texas struggle to get any quality applicants from any country. Others in Texas can choose not to rank AMG's with 230+ scores or interview IMG/FMG's at all. I consider that to be a strong competitive gap. Is any program in Texas as competitive as MGH? - Obviously not.

I don't believe that there's a single psych program in Texas that can only rank AMGs with scores of 230+ (or just AMGs, or just anyone with scores of 230+), or they would risk not filling. Both Baylor and UTSW have DOs and IMGs anyway, so there you go. If there's a program in Texas that's more competitive than one of those two, please do that program a favor and say what it is.