Psych is the new derm

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sluox said:
250k is the standard new grad package for a facility job. I don't think it's especially "good". That said, the expectation of a typical facilities psychiatrist is kinda low...typically it's a minimal call no weekend 40 hour thing, so if u work another 10 hours a week you can bump it up to over 300k.
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My salary is far lower than 250K but I'm in academia so I guess it's expected to have lower salary...
 
Hannibal Lecter D.O. said:
Some of these posts are making me feel a bit better now lol. My biggest concern is matching psych and then being able to pay off my loans which will be >400k
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If your work facilities for 250k, IMO the expectation now is PSLF. Facilities have altered their salary figures to accommodate this. The private vs. nonprofit/public salary differential is increasing for this reason.
 
Hannibal Lecter D.O. said:
Some of these posts are making me feel a bit better now lol. My biggest concern is matching psych and then being able to pay off my loans which will be >400k
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If or when you match, make sure you are looking into PSLF, its crucial to have this up and running right at the start of residency so you net 4-5 years (pending fellowship) of accredited time. Ben White is the best resource for this if you are not already up to date.
 
comp1 said:
Where the heck are all of you people that you're so stressed about job prospects? Not only do I personally have lots of chill jobs available starting at $250k right out of residency, but I also get contacted by recruiters looking to hire for less desirable jobs starting at $350k. The job market is great! Most employers are so desperate that they will take NPs or MDs and happy to pay for whatever they can get. There are just not enough psychiatrists or MH NPs to meet the need.
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Im not sure that many here are stressed about the income as we just don’t agree that psych = derm. Derm academia can easily beat $350k for < 40 hrs with no call. We don’t compare, but the gig is still good.
 
sluox said:
If your work facilities for 250k, IMO the expectation now is PSLF. Facilities have altered their salary figures to accommodate this. The private vs. nonprofit/public salary differential is increasing for this reason.
Click to expand...
Merovinge said:
If or when you match, make sure you are looking into PSLF, its crucial to have this up and running right at the start of residency so you net 4-5 years (pending fellowship) of accredited time. Ben White is the best resource for this if you are not already up to date.
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I admit I am not well versed with PSLF, is there somewhere either of you could point me to find out more?
 
comp1 said:
Where the heck are all of you people that you're so stressed about job prospects? Not only do I personally have lots of chill jobs available starting at $250k right out of residency, but I also get contacted by recruiters looking to hire for less desirable jobs starting at $350k. The job market is great! Most employers are so desperate that they will take NPs or MDs and happy to pay for whatever they can get. There are just not enough psychiatrists or MH NPs to meet the need.
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Anything in a good area for 350k? Outpatient seems to pay less.
 
futuredo32 said:
Anything in a good area for 350k? Outpatient seems to pay less.
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One of the largest non-hospital affiliated groups in the Ohio/Indiana/Pennsylvania area would start you 1st year basically at 300k and then switch to a production based model where avg 16 patients a day would get you 300k+ pretty easily.

There were definitely better offers than this (I didn’t take it) but it’s out there.

Outpatient you probably aren’t getting to over those numbers easily unless you’re working over 40 hrs a week.
 
So what everyone is basically saying is psych really isn’t the promised land like so many of my fellow medical students are beginning to believe? No chicks, power, money, and chicks?
 
EmilKraepelin55 said:
So what everyone is basically saying is psych really isn’t the promised land like so many of my fellow medical students are beginning to believe? No chicks, power, money, and chicks?
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Power over the inpatient ward doesn’t impress many.

Money can be had in any medical field with effort, but derm/ortho/plastics is next level.

Skinny jeans are more likely to attract better potential mates than announcing that you wield the power of the pen at the local psych center.

I wouldn’t change a thing though.
 
EmilKraepelin55 said:
So what everyone is basically saying is psych really isn’t the promised land like so many of my fellow medical students are beginning to believe? No chicks, power, money, and chicks?
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The only power we've got is the power to involuntarily commit our patients. Money is sparse, and the only chicks you'll get points with as a psychiatrist are the ones you probably would be best to avoid.

So none of the three.

But hours are alright, the pay is fine, and the work is bearable.
 
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Hannibal Lecter D.O. said:
Some of these posts are making me feel a bit better now lol. My biggest concern is matching psych and then being able to pay off my loans which will be >400k
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Throw an extra 50k at your loans the first four years and then use REPAYE if you're not doing PSLF and the loans will be paid down before you even hit the forgiveness point. You can pull an extra 50k just by picking up some extra call if you don't want to cramp your lifestyle much
 
EmilKraepelin55 said:
So what everyone is basically saying is psych really isn’t the promised land like so many of my fellow medical students are beginning to believe? No chicks, power, money, and chicks?
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You can score chicks, power, money, and chicks in any field. If you aren't scoring even as a "lowly" family med doc, maybe something(s) needs to be addressed in therapy. I also recommend a balanced diet, and rigorous exercise routine. In the morning if your face is a little puffy, put on an ice pack while doing stomach crunches (aim for 1000.)
 
Mad Jack said:
The only power we've got is the power to involuntarily commit our patients. Money is sparse, and the only chicks you'll get points with as a psychiatrist are the ones you probably would be best to avoid
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Although psychiatry does also help immensely in identifying the ladies to avoid. Just starting residency automatically levels up your Cluster B detection skills.
 
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Mad Jack said:
Yikes. Around here 60/30 is standard unless you work for the VA, which is 90/30.
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So most psych docs are seeing 12-14 patients/day on average. It's better than Derm then since the median salary now is ~280k.

Most derm docs see 35-40 patients to make that 400k/yr.
 
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Splenda88 said:
So most psych docs are seeing 12-14 patients/day on average. It's better than Derm then since the median salary now is ~280k.

Most derm docs see 35-40 patients to make that 400k/yr.
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To be fair, at least in my limited derm experience (a 2 week elective during MS-4), the average derm visit is like five minutes with a scribe doing most of the busy work, whereas with psych, each patient encounter takes a longer time and scribes and other assistance are far less common.
 
Freddie Mercury said:
To be fair, at least in my limited derm experience (a 2 week elective during MS-4), the average derm visit is like five minutes with a scribe doing most of the busy work, whereas with psych, each patient encounter takes a longer time and scribes and other assistance are far less common.
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I have experience with derm as well and these docs are always on the run. PC physicians would like to have 60/30 minutes for new and f/u visits respectively and make 280k/yr. I am glad there are specialties that still have time to talk to their patients.
 
Splenda88 said:
I have experience with derm as well and these docs are always on the run. PC physicians would like to have 60/30 minutes for new and f/u visits respectively and make 280k/yr. I am glad there are specialties that still have time to talk to their patients.
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Oh yeah I definitely feel that psych outpatient life is definitely better than primary care. FM is lucky if they get 30min new/15 min f/u for someone with 5 different medical conditions.
 
Sushirolls said:
Didn't forensic folks make a society declaration that IME folks need to have at leas 25-50% clinical practices, in effort to dissuade / shut down the roving 100$ 100% testimony docs?
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I think I have heard some states do have rules. I would recommend an expert to at least do 8 to 16 hours a month. I will always stay clinical active...at least 1 day a week as I enjoy clinical work. I know of some forensic psychiatrists that do zero clinical work or token clinical work (pro-bono see a few nursing home patients a month). Some opposing experts I was up against do zero clinical work (i.e. educational or admin work). However many attorneys may not adequately appreciate this Achilles heel.
 
Hannibal Lecter D.O. said:
I admit I am not well versed with PSLF, is there somewhere either of you could point me to find out more?
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Jim Dahle of the White Coat Investor talks a lot about this.

In short, the idea is that physicians with direct (or consolidated direct) loans promise to work for any federal, state, or tribal non-profit organisation (there are TONS and you would be surprised at which hospitals qualify) full-time, have an income driven plan, and make 120 monthly payments. Essentially the idea is you make the minimal payments for 10 years (I believe residency also counts) and then the rest of it gets wiped out.

It's a relatively "newer" program and people have only recently seen more success with it. I think it gets a bad rep because when it first came out there were a lot of bureaucratic folds to iron out before it started running smoothly.


www.whitecoatinvestor.com

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) for Doctors | White Coat Investor

If you're working for a(501(c3), PSLF is the federal debt forgiveness program most physicians should be looking at, offering tax-free forgiveness in under 10 years if you qualify.
www.whitecoatinvestor.com www.whitecoatinvestor.com

It is really worth looking into for the majority of physicians w/ loans!
 
Well its been a year since this discussion was born and I am still hearing the adage "psych is the new derm". Any new thoughts in 2022?
 
bdoc13 said:
Well its been a year since this discussion was born and I am still hearing the adage "psych is the new derm". Any new thoughts in 2022?
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Okay med student you can stop posting all over the place and reviving old threads asking about how much money you can make in psychiatry. Just go back to all your other posts where you ask the same thing.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Okay med student you can stop posting all over the place and reviving old threads asking about how much money you can make in psychiatry. Just go back to all your other posts where you ask the same thing.
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I laughed that he disliked this very reasonable comment.
 
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