Psych salary...

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W19

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Is it possible to make 250k/year in psych working 45-50 hrs/week?
 
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Yes. There is a PES job where I moonlight (CA) for $285k. It's a 50 hour mandated workweek.
 
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So I guess the con for PES is high stress?
 
Don't forget, these jobs are typically W2 employment opportunities and you'll be eaten alive by taxes.
 
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Shikima said:
Don't forget, these jobs are typically W2 employment opportunities and you'll be eaten alive by taxes.
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What do you mean? W-2 employment is the standard job almost anyone has when they work for an employer. Taxes are taken out and managed by your employer.

Do you mean 1099 employment? This is when you are an independent contractor and NOTHING is taken out of your paycheck and you need to pay a bunch of taxes on the back end yourself.

My main job is W-2, which is handy and nice and gives me benefits. My moonlighting tends to be 1099, which I actually like, as it gives me the opportunity write off quite a bit as business expenses.
 
st2205 said:
And is there an equivalent chart that would help me find a correction factor for a family of five and >350k in educational debt?
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It's easy. Assume an average attending salary of 200k. Use 100k for "happiness". Use the rest to pay off the educational debt over 4-5 years. After that, put the "excess cash" away for the children's future. What I could see as posing a problem is if you continue to build more debt after residency - say you decide to "live like an attending", and buy a house for $1.5 mil using your sign-up bonus from your first job as the down payment. I'm sure it's easier said than done, but I really think it all just a matter of planning well, avoiding debt like a disease and being content. I'm only in residency, but have zero debt, have a great lifestyle, enjoy life, and stay very happy (caveat: I'm not married).
 
slappy said:
It's easy. Assume an average attending salary of 200k. Use 100k for "happiness". Use the rest to pay off the educational debt over 4-5 years. After that, put the "excess cash" away for the children's future. What I could see as posing a problem is if you continue to build more debt after residency - say you decide to "live like an attending", and buy a house for $1.5 mil using your sign-up bonus from your first job as the down payment. I'm sure it's easier said than done, but I really think it all just a matter of planning well, avoiding debt like a disease and being content. I'm only in residency, but have zero debt, have a great lifestyle, enjoy life, and stay very happy (caveat: I'm not married).
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So please tell me this. If you use 100k of your 200k AFTER taxes, how can you possibly pay off your 350k student loans in 4-5 years that have been accumulating in interest? Please tell me!

Also, you have zero debt while currently in residency. So please don't try to give a lecture to those of us who are ACTUALLY in deep debt.

It's easy to pay off 350k in loans?

Your whole post reeks of someone who doesn't know WTF they are talking about.
 
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Baller MD said:
So please tell me this. If you use 100k of your 200k AFTER taxes, how can you possibly pay off your 350k student loans in 4-5 years that have been accumulating in interest? Please tell me!

Also, you have zero debt while currently in residency. So please don't try to give a lecture to those of us who are ACTUALLY in deep debt.

It's easy to pay off 350k in loans?

Your whole post reeks of someone who doesn't know WTF they are talking about.
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Live off of 100k pre-tax, roughly 70k post-tax and deductions. That gives you 70k to throw at loan repayment post-tax. If you've got 350k in loans and 140k post-tax income, your PAYE payments will be roughly 12k a year, and you can throw the remaining 58k at principle. You'll accumulate several thousand dollars worth of interest, but your interest doesn't compound under PAYE, so your debt won't explode. At that rate, your debt will be paid off in a total of 8 years. Or you could just pay it down to a level that the interest isn't eating you alive and then pay it off slower. It's up to you, really. If you were to live like this for 5 years, you'd pay down 240k of principle and have 110k of principle left, plus 55k of non-principle interest that can be paid off fairly leisurely. At that point, you can just make minimum 12k IBR payments and your debt will be slowly paid off without you even feeling it, given that you'll still have 128k of post-tax income, or 12k a month post-tax, to play with (assuming you suck at deductions).
 
st2205 said:
And is there an equivalent chart that would help me find a correction factor for a family of five and >350k in educational debt?
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Can't you work 10 years and do PSFL? My understanding is that your residency should count (and fellowship if you choose).
 
The secretary of education said about a year ago (and this is what they've historically done) that any changes to PSLF would be for future loan disbursements and would not affect current borrowers.
 
NHSC will pay up to $30k/year PLUS the money to pay federal income taxes on the $30k. You must work in an approved site, but I paid off all of my loans this way.
 
digitlnoize said:
The secretary of education said about a year ago (and this is what they've historically done) that any changes to PSLF would be for future loan disbursements and would not affect current borrowers.
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hahahahaha....yeah good luck with that.
 
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W19 said:
Is it possible to make 250k/year in psych working 45-50 hrs/week?
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out of residency? the answer to this question is yes.....but it probably won't be a job that meets other criteria for what people want.

But if your sole criteria are to work 45-50 hours a week and make 250k before taxes, then of course that's possible.
 
vistaril said:
out of residency? the answer to this question is yes.....but it probably won't be a job that meets other criteria for what people want.

But if your sole criteria are to work 45-50 hours a week and make 250k before taxes, then of course that's possible.
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No psych job meets the criteria you want, so I suppose your opinion on the matter is kind of invalid.

Some people like emergency psych, prison psych, and many of the other psych fields that'll make you a decent salary working 45-50 hours/wk.
 
vistaril said:
out of residency? the answer to this question is yes.....but it probably won't be a job that meets other criteria for what people want.

But if your sole criteria are to work 45-50 hours a week and make 250k before taxes, then of course that's possible.
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My criteria is to have a full time job from mon-thurs (32-40hrs/wk) with benefits and work friday and/or saturday as a contractor...
 
Baller MD said:
If you use 100k of your 200k AFTER taxes, how can you possibly pay off your 350k student loans in 4-5 years that have been accumulating in interest?
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What Mad Jack said. The financial adviser hired by our residency program had multiple other suggestions as well, but I don't quite remember them now. Your parent institution would have a financial consultant who you should talk to, because I'm positive paying off 350k in 4-5 years is possible based on what ours told us.

Baller MD said:
Also, you have zero debt while currently in residency. So please don't try to give a lecture to those of us who are ACTUALLY in deep debt. It's easy to pay off 350k in loans?
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I went through education too. Although I had a bunch of scholarships and my debt was not as much as yours, I have paid off all my debts even before completing residency. How hard can it be to do it as an attending?
 
slappy said:
What Mad Jack said. The financial adviser hired by our residency program had multiple other suggestions as well, but I don't quite remember them now. Your parent institution would have a financial consultant who you should talk to, because I'm positive paying off 350k in 4-5 years is possible based on what ours told us. I went through education too. Although I had a bunch of scholarships and my debt was not as much as yours, I have paid off all my debts even before completing residency. How hard can it be to do it as an attending?
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1. For some of us 350k is NOT the total amount we owe. That is pre-interest. Also all those programs you mentiond are long term programs, at least 10 years.

2. 🙄

I'll be GLAD to be wrong about this. But unfortunately, I don't think I am...
 
Baller MD said:
1. For some of us 350k is NOT the total amount we owe. That is pre-interest.
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Fine. 500k debt with interest.

1. Match into a program that allows moonlighting from PGY2.
2. Moonlight for 45-50k a year.
3. End of residency, 100k paid, 400k to go.
4. Find an attending job that pays 250k a year and gives you a good sign-up bonus.
5. Toil away for four years (as the job will likely be crappy) while maintaining a "resident lifestyle", and pay off 100k a year.
6. Get a better job, a house and a real car.

Or if you're in the early years of your medical school, and the reason your debt is going to be 350k is because of high medical school tuition, sign up for something like this: http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/scholarships/overview/index.html

There are many other options as well. I strongly suggest you talk to your institution's financial adviser. I can also understand how terrifying seeing such large numbers on paper can be especially when you haven't started earning. But concentrate on doing the things you have to do for now. Things have a way of working themselves out with time.
 
Baller MD said:
1. For some of us 350k is NOT the total amount we owe. That is pre-interest. Also all those programs you mentiond are long term programs, at least 10 years.

2. 🙄

I'll be GLAD to be wrong about this. But unfortunately, I don't think I am...
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I think the best way to tackle that loan is to start paying it off during residency by doing some moonlighting. That's what I plan to do, but I am lucky that mine will be 100k less than yours...
 
Shikima said:
Don't count on PSLF or other public programs as they likely will be cut back.
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There is no historical precedent I'm aware of where people don't get grandfathered into programs and that the rug is pulled from underneath them.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
There is no historical precedent I'm aware of where people don't get grandfathered into programs and that the rug is pulled from underneath them.
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While I also believe they would grandfather you in, we are talking about government programs right? Tax laws and others change at any time of the year and can even be retroactive to start at the beginning of the year. I doubt they would abruptly terminate these programs, but I'm unaware of any reason why they couldn't.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
There is no historical precedent I'm aware of where people don't get grandfathered into programs and that the rug is pulled from underneath them.
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You have to reapply for the program every year or so. Since you're reapplying, the new rules are applied at the time....
 
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AlbinoHawk DO said:
There is no historical precedent I'm aware of where people don't get grandfathered into programs and that the rug is pulled from underneath them.
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IMO it would still be unwise to make long-term financial decisions relying on these programs given the current political climate as well as the seemingly long-term political arc of "cut all the things!" There's always a first time for everything.
 
Baller MD said:
1. For some of us 350k is NOT the total amount we owe. That is pre-interest. Also all those programs you mentiond are long term programs, at least 10 years.

2. 🙄

I'll be GLAD to be wrong about this. But unfortunately, I don't think I am...
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I already demonstrated the math. Live like a resident until your debt is at a reasonable level- it's simple math.
 
slappy said:
I went through education too. Although I had a bunch of scholarships and my debt was not as much as yours, I have paid off all my debts even before completing residency. How hard can it be to do it as an attending?
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Either you had a miniscule amount of debt and/or you're working in some place like ND to be able to pay off all your debt in residency.

Regardless, your advice is unrealistic. Moonlighting in PGY 2 for $50,000 a year??? That doesn't sound even remotely realistic to me.
 
Mass Effect said:
Either you had a miniscule amount of debt and/or you're working in some place like ND to be able to pay off all your debt in residency.

Regardless, your advice is unrealistic. Moonlighting in PGY 2 for $50,000 a year??? That doesn't sound even remotely realistic to me.
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This is highly dependent on the program, but I was close to that number pgy-2. I could have blown past it had I been willing to work that hard. Some of my co-residents paid off more than 50k in loans in 1 year.

If this is important to you (was for me), a vital talking point on the residency interview trail is moonlighting possibilities.
 
How much free time did you have PGY 2 year to make $50,000 moonlighting?
 
Mass Effect said:
How much free time did you have PGY 2 year to make $50,000 moonlighting?
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My program was about 40 hrs/week. That left 40 hrs to moonlight every week without breaking rules. I probably worked an extra 10-20 hrs only/week. If I had pushed it, I could have made over 100k instead of mid 40's.
 
TexasPhysician said:
My program was about 40 hrs/week. That left 40 hrs to moonlight every week without breaking rules. I probably worked an extra 10-20 hrs only/week. If I had pushed it, I could have made over 100k instead of mid 40's.
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Boy! 40hrs/wk as a PGY2... No wonder some med students are catching on to the psych lifestyle. I hope the actual work itself will keep these people out...
 
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Yeah I don't think I appreciated how big of a difference kinda subtle differences in moonlighting can make a huge difference in finances. For example two programs I looked at had pretty similar formats, but one program had base salary 5k higher so you think well thats not a big difference. But then it turns out that program doesn't make the night float residents cover weekends and instead pays other residents (starting pgy2) $1200 to cover the 12hr weekend shifts, so suddenly that extra 5k is an extra 20k because your getting paid to work those weekends you work for free at the other place
 
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W19 said:
I was trying to say psych attract a certain type of people... It will be hard for someone to try to psych for the money...
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What money?










Jk
 
Um with all these numbers being tossed around, that isn't my experience at all. I'm a frugal person too. But buying a car or two, renting/buying a home, etc really chews into those numbers..
 
W19 said:
The salary per hour in psych is one of best of all specialties...
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if you repeat a lie enough, maybe it will become reality.

The salary per hour when working psych *right now* for independent contractor positions averages about 130/hr. For salaried positions it is going to come out to average about 100/hr. Now some settings are going to be more than 130/100 and some less.

That may not be the lowest out there(I suspect outpt doc in a box type low acuity urgent care may average 5-10 dollars an hour less), but it's certainly close.

Now not that those numbers(130/100 on average) mean we starve, but to claim it is anything close to 'one of the best' is laughable. By contrast something like EM comes in at around 270/200 on average(roughly double)
 
vistaril said:
if you repeat a lie enough, maybe it will become reality.

The salary per hour when working psych *right now* for independent contractor positions averages about 130/hr. For salaried positions it is going to come out to average about 100/hr. Now some settings are going to be more than 130/100 and some less.

That may not be the lowest out there(I suspect outpt doc in a box type low acuity urgent care may average 5-10 dollars an hour less), but it's certainly close.

Now not that those numbers(130/100 on average) mean we starve, but to claim it is anything close to 'one of the best' is laughable. By contrast something like EM comes in at around 270/200 on average(roughly double)
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You know, before you posted this I was about to quote the post you quoted above stating "cue a response complaining about the overrated taste of the psych Kool-Aid while raving about the quality of all the other specialty Kool-Aids." While I appreciate that some of the things you state do you have an element of unappreciated truth, it's just too shticky and predictable.
 
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