psychiatrist personality

[neurologyoncall]

hello// I have many different interests but recently thinking that my first choice of surgery may not the be the right one. I don't think I have the stamina and drive. But today talking with someone, he said psychiatrists are driven too and everybody in medicine is. But let's talk relativity. Because I have different interests, I can go in different directions. I have seen surgeons at work (my dad's friend), and my dad himself is a neurologist. Can someone tell me about typical psychiatrist personality of residents, like your classmates who made it, not just ones who were interested. Are they MORE LIKELY to be extroverts, agreeable, have more frustration and stress tolerance, emotionally detach, be open to experience, etc etc? I read one study that says they're more likely to be the INFP MBTI type and another saying that they are more likely to be extroverts. Very few studies done though. Thank you so much for any info, articles, books, research on subject. I am looking at different options, talking to many people, trying to do my best in choosing the right fit.

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[kugel]

They are generally pretty open and tolerant, congenial and supportive. Certainly, there are exceptions. But you just won't hear frequent stories about "all the residents" in a psych program being enormously competitive between residents, cut-throat, back-stabbing, etc. Psych programs are generally not set up so that residents are put in direct competition with each other.

 

[neurologyoncall]

quick reply, thank you Dr Kugel. One thing I wanted to add is that the surgeons I met did not seem to have a very clear idea of who they were. It was almost like they were enslaved by their drive or wanting to work for the sake of work. I hope I'm not offending anyone. I just mean to say, based on the ones I met and shadowed, it seems to be more about the work or just going out there and get busy, not so much about people or their subjectivity or even the world of ideas. I love math and sciences, specially theoretical ones, so I'm all for the world of ideas. Just to be clear, I'm looking at careers in terms of things, people, and ideas. Anyhow, but if psychiatrists are going to be able to sympathize...or is it empathize...with people they see, they have to be able to slow down and take other people's perspective and also be sure of who they are. Because you can't just be totally driven and on the go, it won't make patient feel good. You have to slow down, know where you stand, know where the patient stands, and figure out the best way forward. You can't be like the surgeon, and he sends the other guy to deal with the family cause he's just so totally in the zone and doing surgery and can't be bothered to talk to patients. I understand, that is what he's good at. But you're not dealing with a cancer you gonna attack aggressively in OR but with someone and just sit and talk it out and slowly convince them. I mean I could be wrong but my dad is a neurologist and he more of an idea person and bit socially awkward with patients (I have seen him at work). I am more like my mom, who is an art therapist. Surgeons are about dealing with things as opposed to ideas, well, relatively. Psychiatrists must be people person. But I am also very much like my uncle, loving tinkering with things, and am quite handy around the house. But seeing dad's friend spend so little time talking and instead hours on his feet in the OR, I'm like, I don't know. Oh, sorry, I've had three cups of coffee and am operating on three hours of sleep, ideas are all over the place. I'll stop and check back in a day or two.

 

[kugel]

And wouldn't it be great to know there's a surgeon out there who sits down and asks the patient, "So how are you doing with all this? Not just the pain, but all of it."
There are such surgeons and I'm very glad.
When I blew out my ACL a couple years ago, my Ortho examined me, then asked about my work and recreational life. After knowing more about me and who I am, he did Not recommend surgery because I'll likely do fine without it and surgery could make it worse. If i do need it in the future, the techniques will only be better. "If you were someone who works Mon-Fri only to be able to afford to spend all weekend playing soccer or snowboarding, then I'd say we should repair it now. You're not, so let's wait."

 

[nitemagi]

Based only on personal observation, I'd say there are clusters to the personalities of psychiatrists. Many are primarily introvertive, empathic, got into it to connect with patients. Others are more extrovertive, problem-focused, tweak a med, less prone to understanding the phenomenological aspect of the pt. experience (might trend towards forensics or med mgmt practices).

What is great though is that our field encourages the idea of growth and change, and I've seen many residents come in with one particular slant to their personality, but cultivated and developed other sides, even during residency.

Maybe other questions would be -- what is your personality now? How would you like it to be? While you could find a specialty that fits your personality, can you conceptualize the idea of choosing a field that will give you the environment/room to grow into the person you want to be. Maybe that's too lovey-dovey/humanistic.

I'm presuming that you're in the pre-med or early med school phase of your career.

 

[notdeadyet]

Many are primarily introvertive, empathic, got into it to connect with patients. Others are more extrovertive, problem-focused, tweak a med, less prone to understanding the phenomenological aspect of the pt. experience (might trend towards forensics or med mgmt practices).

Is there any validity to this stereotype that introverts tend to actually be thoughtfully empathetic and extroverts are somehow shallow? Seems pat.

I'm just curious, because I hear this a lot in medicine, but in my personal experience, I've met as many introverts who were not empathetic and as many extroverts who were. It sounds akin to the stereotype people have of their very smart colleagues and AOA folks somehow lacking people skills. A lot of it smacks of sweet lemons/sour grapes. The really bright being the geeks only comfortable in the lab or library is a stereotype that doesn't gel with me, but that may be a reflection of where I've worked and studied.

Just curious if there was anything real to this.

 

[nitemagi]

Is there any validity to this stereotype that introverts tend to actually be thoughtfully empathetic and extroverts are somehow shallow? Seems pat.

I'm just curious, because I hear this a lot in medicine, but in my personal experience, I've met as many introverts who were not empathetic and as many extroverts who were. It sounds akin to the stereotype people have of their very smart colleagues and AOA folks somehow lacking people skills. A lot of it smacks of sweet lemons/sour grapes. The really bright being the geeks only comfortable in the lab or library is a stereotype that doesn't gel with me, but that may be a reflection of where I've worked and studied.

Just curious if there was anything real to this.

I think there's something to the trend that after IQ goes up past a certain point, social skills on average start to go down. I don't know of any actual research on it, though.

 

[neurologyoncall]

Based only on personal observation, I'd say there are clusters to the personalities of psychiatrists. Many are primarily introvertive, empathic, got into it to connect with patients. Others are more extrovertive, problem-focused, tweak a med, less prone to understanding the phenomenological aspect of the pt. experience (might trend towards forensics or med mgmt practices).

What is great though is that our field encourages the idea of growth and change, and I've seen many residents come in with one particular slant to their personality, but cultivated and developed other sides, even during residency.

Maybe other questions would be -- what is your personality now? How would you like it to be? While you could find a specialty that fits your personality, can you conceptualize the idea of choosing a field that will give you the environment/room to grow into the person you want to be. Maybe that's too lovey-dovey/humanistic.

I'm presuming that you're in the pre-med or early med school phase of your career.

Yes, pre-med phase. Thank you for your reply Dr Nitemagi.

 

[peppy]

I have always said that we need a variety of different personalities in psychiatry because different patients respond well to different styles. There are certain types of patients that I seem to do well with that some of my colleagues dread dealing with, and vice versa.
It takes a lot of drive and a certain amount of "Type A" tendencies to get into and through med school. That may be what that person was referring to if you're a premed. However, I'd say that psychiatrists as a group are more easygoing and laidback than most specialties.

 

[neurologyoncall]

double post...

 

[neurologyoncall]

It takes a lot of drive and a certain amount of "Type A" tendencies to get into and through med school. That may be what that person was referring to if you're a premed. However, I'd say that psychiatrists as a group are more easygoing and laidback than most specialties.

Oh yes, that makes perfect sense. I think I get it now. So all doctors are driven and disciplined people. But compared to, say, surgeons, who are all about getting to the destination, psychiatrists are more likely to stop and smell the roses.

 

[MossPoh]

Is there any validity to this stereotype that introverts tend to actually be thoughtfully empathetic and extroverts are somehow shallow? Seems pat.

I'm just curious, because I hear this a lot in medicine, but in my personal experience, I've met as many introverts who were not empathetic and as many extroverts who were. It sounds akin to the stereotype people have of their very smart colleagues and AOA folks somehow lacking people skills. A lot of it smacks of sweet lemons/sour grapes. The really bright being the geeks only comfortable in the lab or library is a stereotype that doesn't gel with me, but that may be a reflection of where I've worked and studied.

Just curious if there was anything real to this.

There is some validity to it. They tend to find that true introverts are better at interpreting emotions and knowing where people stand versus extroverts. It is mostly attributed to the fact that introverts lean toward being observers while extroverts like socializing. That socializing forces a bit of desensitization with social cues. How each person takes and applies what cues they do pick up can vary. Some introverts understand everything going on, but they are unable to put it into words or show that necessary empathy.

 

[notdeadyet]

They tend to find that true introverts are better at interpreting emotions and knowing where people stand versus extroverts. It is mostly attributed to the fact that introverts lean toward being observers while extroverts like socializing. That socializing forces a bit of desensitization with social cues.

Interesting. I would have assumed that this benefit would be somewhat negated by introverts often having less exposure to social cues and the like due to decreased socializing.

 

[neurologyoncall]

interesting debate about introverts. I'm learning a lot.

p.s. for psychiatrists you doctors have some unusual names and avys: Notdeadyet, Nitemagi, Whopper, etc. In another forum I was asking a doctor, a neurosurgeon, a few questions about what it takes to become a surgeon.. I did not know he was a neurosurgeon. But he went by the name The Real God. That was my first clue.

 

[belle54321]

In another forum I was asking a doctor, a neurosurgeon, a few questions about what it takes to become a surgeon.. I did not know he was a neurosurgeon. But he went by the name The Real God.

I am gagging a little.

 

[Ibid]

Interesting. I would have assumed that this benefit would be somewhat negated by introverts often having less exposure to social cues and the like due to decreased socializing.

 

[Divine Furor]

Oh yes, that makes perfect sense. I think I get it now. So all doctors are driven and disciplined people. But compared to, say, surgeons, who are all about getting to the destination, psychiatrists are more likely to stop and smell the roses.

Umm...hmm...no. You have to have endurance, a certain amount of intelligence, and willpower to get through medical school. But not all of us are driven or disciplined, and after a while in MS, it is possible to be less driven or committed and still get the MD/DO. I like to think that surgeons and psychiatrists share a lot in common, fundamentally. We are primordial players, after a fashion, and the two most invasive/enmeshed specialities in medicine (surgeons with the body, psychiatrists with the mind/emotions). Arguments over what qualities best define us categorically are bound to be endless--what's more important is whether you can tolerate a high level of ambiguity and individuality in your approach to clinical medicine (psychiatric patients will "misbehave," that is, break the expectations and behaviors of doctor-patient, refuse you and reject you and need you), and most of all, what you enjoy when you study it.

 

[Valadi]

I like to think that surgeons and psychiatrists share a lot in common, fundamentally. We are primordial players, after a fashion, and the two most invasive/enmeshed specialities in medicine (surgeons with the body, psychiatrists with the mind/emotions). Arguments over what qualities best define us categorically are bound to be endless--what's more important is whether you can tolerate a high level of ambiguity and individuality in your approach to clinical medicine (psychiatric patients will "misbehave," that is, break the expectations and behaviors of doctor-patient, refuse you and reject you and need you), and most of all, what you enjoy when you study it.

MS here, but in deciding between surg and psych I often heard from attendings in both specialties that the only other thing they would have considered was psych/surg. One hilariously said, "I suppose it's because both have a certain degree of megalomania to them."

 

[whopper]

Psychiatrists personalities will vary but IMHO the field's stress level is under much more control from the psychiatrist. Thanks to the several differing options of work (inpatient, outpatient, consult, partial hospitalization), you could work 20 hours a week, 5, 80, it's all up to you, while in several other fields such as surgery, you have less options with hours and structuring your weekly schedule.

So you could be Type A and driven and work seriously hard hours, you could just work a few.

I wouldn't say one particular personality is better but a good psychiatrist needs to have some empathy, be a good listener, but also be realistic and practical.

 

[LizzytheShrink]

Yes, my colleagues have run the gamut from a laid-back stoner who could barely wake up for rounds (that was my BOSS! yikes!) to an extremely rigid, avoidant guy who couldn't make eye contact and may have had Asperberger's IMO (also one of my bosses), with every (less pathological) shade of the rainbow in between.

Yes, the common denominator is that we are like all doctors, in that we are driven and achievement - oriented. I don't like to make generalizations because I've learned that they can lead you way off track.

 

[neurologyoncall]

Yes, my colleagues have run the gamut from a laid-back stoner who could barely wake up for rounds (that was my BOSS! yikes!) to an extremely rigid, avoidant guy who couldn't make eye contact and may have had Asperberger's IMO (also one of my bosses), with every (less pathological) shade of the rainbow in between.

Yes, the common denominator is that we are like all doctors, in that we are driven and achievement - oriented. I don't like to make generalizations because I've learned that they can lead you way off track.

Asperger's?? I'm learning a lot. In another forum I was surprised to learn that even highly accomplished doctors like surgeons can have pretty much any sort of mental illnesses and personality disorders. But I reasoned that the job is mechanical in nature and they can probably get away with it. But a psychiatrist, a professional who must excel in relating to others and social skills, who can't make eye contact? A psychiatrist with Asperger's? The only way I can make sense of this is that these people are particularly intelligent and driven so they can compensate for what they lack. Not exactly the same, but sort of like a bright psychopath who can learn to play the role of an caring psychiatrist.

 

[LizzytheShrink]

Asperger's?? I'm learning a lot. In another forum I was surprised to learn that even highly accomplished doctors like surgeons can have pretty much any sort of mental illnesses and personality disorders. But I reasoned that the job is mechanical in nature and they can probably get away with it. But a psychiatrist, a professional who must excel in relating to others and social skills, who can't make eye contact? A psychiatrist with Asperger's? The only way I can make sense of this is that these people are particularly intelligent and driven so they can compensate for what they lack. Not exactly the same, but sort of like a bright psychopath who can learn to play the role of an caring psychiatrist.

Yes, his behavior was just odd... he may have been schizoid, but I tried not to spend much time thinking about him. Patients did NOT like him, he infuriated the nursing staff, and seemed to be "away" mentally. But he was extremely organized, obsessively so, and showed up every day (that's 90% of the job sometimes!) He had risen to the level of medical director, which was a much better fit for him, cuz he could stay in his office, tinkering with his puter, reading journals and writing memos and policies. He wasn't malevolent like my drunk/stoner medical director was, so he didn't have many outright conflicts with medical staff.

tell ya, takes all kinds. During my 2nd year of residency I shared my office with a resident who had been a psychiatrist for many years in Soviet Russia. I got the first hand, extremely educational experience of witnessing her descending into a whiskey/Scope dependence, then a demerol flirtation (IM! yuck, the syringes!) and finally deteriorating to outright paranoid psychosis, and an outburst in which she destroyed our office. She had to be hospitalized involuntarily and she never came back. Everytime we lil residents tried to bring up her worsening state with our directors, they minimized it, and she just kept lying and smiling to them until she couldn't do it any more.

But you can't generalize. The other middle-aged female Russian psychiatrist in our residency was a great doctor and a good pal, whose patients were devoted to her in a good way.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

You can be a psychiatrist who has very minimal contact with other people, so I wouldn't be too surprised by Asperger's. Considering how different allt he different jobs out there in psychiatry are, it's not surprising that different types of people are attracted to this field. An academic research gig versus outpatient psychotherapy versus attending in a state hospital are all jobs we can do that have very little in commom with each other.

 

[whopper]

Someone I knew in residency was schizoid, and I'm not being sarcastic. He actually met the criteria for it, and he was an excellent listener, knew his medicine, and altogether I'd say was a great psychiatrist.

The guy had to have his mother buy his clothes, and he was like Einstein in many ways in the sense that he was oblivious to a lot of things along these lines. He had no sexual interest and didn't care for social interactions though when in them he was polite.

But despite the above, he was IMHO one of the best residents I've seen, and I'd even go as far as to say that whiel he met the criteria for schizoid, I don't like branding him as such because the diagnosis implies he was somehow worse for it. I'd go as far as to say that his personality was actually a breath of fresh air because he didn't care about social interactions because there were some very high drama residents (not in a good way). To have someone who just minded his own business was something we needed more than what he had.

 

[LizzytheShrink]

yeah, I agree, there's room for every personality in this game. and the less drama, the better. patients will provide all the drama you need in your life.

 

[notdeadyet]

yeah, I agree, there's room for every personality in this game. and the less drama, the better. patients will provide all the drama you need in your life.

^^^ Amen to this...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I'd think someone with schizoid PD wouldn't particularly enjoy psychiatry. I wonder why he picked this field over all the other ones. I can get Aspergers a little more because maybe that engenders some curiosity about people.

I read something a while ago suggesting that people with schizoid maybe did actually miss and value human connection in spite of the wording in the DSM. If true, I guess that would make sense.

 

[whopper]

I wonder why he picked this field over all the other ones.

I never knew his motivations, but hey, he got the job done and done well. He was always smooth and calm.

 

[Slytheryn]

So all doctors are driven and disciplined people. But compared to, say, surgeons, who are all about getting to the destination, psychiatrists are more likely to stop and smell the roses.

This is an old thread and the OP got banned, but I have to strongly agree with this.
Highly competitive people don't have time to observe everything around them and to taste life, because all of their time is consumed up by the constant competition. I was one of these persons and the taste of success could never make up for all the lost opportunities to enjoy life because of being constantly rushing through things.
If you live only for success, you're not living most of the time, so you probably don't have the chance to observe and understand people. It makes sense that such people usually don't become psychiatrists.