psychiatry after family medicine residency

[markglt]

I've decided that i will apply to psychiatry residency after i complete my family med program. i suppose i will be applying for a pgy2 spot thru eras.
Will i be under the same scruitny as a new applicant in terms of exam attempts?
i tried to transfer out this year, but the program that had an open pgy2 spot said i had one too many attempts on step 1.
i really want to be a psychiatrist, but feel my step 1 attempt (passed on 3rd try) will preclude me from receiving any ivs....shouldn't board certification in FM supercede that?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[vistaril]

I've decided that i will apply to psychiatry residency after i complete my family med program. i suppose i will be applying for a pgy2 spot thru eras.
Will i be under the same scruitny as a new applicant in terms of exam attempts?
i tried to transfer out this year, but the program that had an open pgy2 spot said i had one too many attempts on step 1.
i really want to be a psychiatrist, but feel my step 1 attempt (passed on 3rd try) will preclude me from receiving any ivs....shouldn't board certification in FM supercede that?

The fact that you failed step 1 twice is a red flag, and no it's not erased by the fact that you completed another residency.

Will it cause you to not get interviews at some programs you would have otherwise had a great shot at? Of course.

Will you still have a lot of options and be able to match into a psychiatry residency somewhere if you apply broadly? Of course.

 

[resident12]

this thread is similar to the question that I have, so I am posting my question here:

I am applying to psychiatry for the 2013 match. I am debating if I should apply to Family medicine, as a back up. I do not like/not interested in family. My question is if I get accepted into family, after PGY1, can I switch into a psychiatry program? Is this possible? Do residents do this?

thank you

 

[splik]

you shouldn't apply for a specialty you have no interest in! How excrutiating it will be to interview and rave about how much you love a specialty you despise! How disappointed you will be if you actually match into it. The answer is yes, you can switch from FM to psych after PGY1 there are a number of spots open at the PGY-2 level for psychiatry but quite frankly if you can't get in the first time, it is unlikely you will get in as PGY-2 since there are many great candidates who defect from other specialties or other programs. Psych is not a difficult match. Unless you have some glaring problem like multiple failures such as the OP you will match somewhere.

 

[resident12]

Thank for the quick response. My step one score is 198 and step 2 score is 238 and passes cs all on first attempt. I have US clinical experience and research experience and 3 psych letters from US physicians and will be applying to 120 programs and i'm a us citizen. The only thing is that I went to a Caribbean school. Are these good points, making me a good candidate for psych? Thanks again.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Step 1 score of 198 is a bad point for any specialty. How can you not know that? It's almost fail.

Let's give psychiatry a little more respect ladies and gentlemen.

 

[splik]

Step 1 score of 198 is a bad point for any specialty. How can you not know that? It's almost fail.

Let's give psychiatry a little more respect ladies and gentlemen.

Well I think psychiatry is a bit more forgiving. I know someone who got that score who got interviews at programs like Longwood and NYU. I didn't score much better and matched at a great program. Obviously I had redeeming features, but what has knowing inborn errors of metabolism 7 years after I did biochem have to do with being a good doctor anyway?

To the caribbean chap/chapess - i think your step 2 will redeem your step 1 and as long as you have good LoRs can show a commitment to psychiatry (i.e. doesn't look like a backup - do some electives, volunteering related to MH, advocacy work, research etc), and you are applying broadly you will match somewhere. I wouldn't apply to FM if you wouldn't want that and having to apply/interview for 2 specialties would be exhausting and look suspect if applying to the same hospitals etc.

 

[F0nzie]

I've decided that i will apply to psychiatry residency after i complete my family med program. i suppose i will be applying for a pgy2 spot thru eras.
Will i be under the same scruitny as a new applicant in terms of exam attempts?
i tried to transfer out this year, but the program that had an open pgy2 spot said i had one too many attempts on step 1.
i really want to be a psychiatrist, but feel my step 1 attempt (passed on 3rd try) will preclude me from receiving any ivs....shouldn't board certification in FM supercede that?

I suggest you apply broadly and keep trying until you get in. You'll get in, it's just a matter of time. If after working full-time and receiving an attending salary as a family practitioner, you may think twice about 3 additional years of residency. But if it means that much to you to be a psychiatrist, at least you'd have some sweet money saved up!

 

[Dermpath]

Step 1 score of 198 is a bad point for any specialty. How can you not know that? It's almost fail.

Let's give psychiatry a little more respect ladies and gentlemen.

I had a friend interview at top notch places (Yale, Stanford, Hopkins) with that score, so no, for psych, it's totally doable.

 

[vistaril]

Step 1 score of 198 is a bad point for any specialty. How can you not know that? It's almost fail.

Let's give psychiatry a little more respect ladies and gentlemen.

ummm....yes a 198 is a bad score, but as others have mentioned psychiatry is a VERY EASY specialty to match into.

It's not about respect.....it's just about what people can match into.

In psychiatry, you can have multiple red flags and still match into a program somewhere if you apply broadly enough. and no, a low passing step 1 score isn't a red flag. A 198 on step 1 the first attemp, except at a few programs, isn't even a mark against an applicant in psychiatry.....and not even close to a red flag.

you can have more than 1 step 1 failure and still get a university program in psych.

you can have unexplained LOA's and still get a university program in psych.

you can have had to repeat clinical rotations and still get a university program in psych.

you can have had to take 5 or more years to graduate and still get a university program in psych.

And if you apply broadly enough, you can do two of the above and still match in psych somewhere...especially if you are an amg to offset those somewhat.

I suppose you are someone who just recently matched in psych or will next year? That's great and all, but if you're under the impression you need to do anything more than pass step 1(and not even on the first attempt) to secure a psych slot somewhere you are delusional......

 

[vistaril]

this thread is similar to the question that I have, so I am posting my question here:

I am applying to psychiatry for the 2013 match. I am debating if I should apply to Family medicine, as a back up.

why? If you can't match in psych, you might not match in family either. They are both two of the least competitive specialties, if not the least competitive two. Family is easier to match into in the sense that there are so many more family programs, but at any one program family is probably as hard as psych.

Unless you literally have the worst application in the country, you will match somewhere in psych if you apply broadly enough. I'm talking about going to a non-big three carrib school, failing step 1, and failing a couple clinical rotations........and I don't mean having one of those, I mean having all of those

 

[BS81]

ummm....yes a 198 is a bad score, but as others have mentioned psychiatry is a VERY EASY specialty to match into.

It's not about respect.....it's just about what people can match into.

In psychiatry, you can have multiple red flags and still match into a program somewhere if you apply broadly enough. and no, a low passing step 1 score isn't a red flag. A 198 on step 1 the first attemp, except at a few programs, isn't even a mark against an applicant in psychiatry.....and not even close to a red flag.

you can have more than 1 step 1 failure and still get a university program in psych.

you can have unexplained LOA's and still get a university program in psych.

you can have had to repeat clinical rotations and still get a university program in psych.

you can have had to take 5 or more years to graduate and still get a university program in psych.

And if you apply broadly enough, you can do two of the above and still match in psych somewhere...especially if you are an amg to offset those somewhat.

I suppose you are someone who just recently matched in psych or will next year? That's great and all, but if you're under the impression you need to do anything more than pass step 1(and not even on the first attempt) to secure a psych slot somewhere you are delusional......

If you're an AMG, then sure you have a good chance with a 198. According to charting outcomes 92 AMGs matched and only 7 didn't match with a score between 191 and 200. Non-AMGs are a different story: 71 matched and 159 didn't match in that score range. The match rate overall for non-AMGs was 42.3% in 2011 for psych, so it's not a walk in the park for those candidates. The match rates were higher for non-AMGs in FM and IM with a lot more programs available. Sometimes it's about casting as wide of a net as possible and maximizing your interviews and applying to FM programs to increase your chances of just matching might not be a bad idea.

 

[notdeadyet]

If you're an AMG, then sure you have a good chance with a 198. According to charting outcomes 92 AMGs matched and only 7 didn't match with a score between 191 and 200. Non-AMGs are a different story: 71 matched and 159 didn't match in that score range. The match rate overall for non-AMGs was 42.3% in 2011 for psych, so it's not a walk in the park for those candidates.

I'd verify this. Unless I am remembering wrong, charting outcomes in the match separates USMDs from independent applicants (including non-USMDs and USDOs).

The numbers you quote do not include osteopaths.

 

[markglt]

return topic to original post.

 

[BS81]

I'd verify this. Unless I am remembering wrong, charting outcomes in the match separates USMDs from independent applicants (including non-USMDs and USDOs).

The numbers you quote do not include osteopaths.

Sorry when I said AMGs I was referring to USMDs which I guess is not proper terminology. Yes, DOs are IA and non-AMGs and are part of that group.

 

[digitlnoize]

The fact that you failed step 1 twice is a red flag, and no it's not erased by the fact that you completed another residency.

I don't buy this. Since Step 1, the OP has completed Step 2, Step 3, and FM residency. They've proven themselves and I think most programs would give you a fair look.

Apply somewhat broadly to be safe, and you'll be just fine.

 

[notdeadyet]

Apply somewhat broadly to be safe, and you'll be just fine.

I agree with this, though I'd delete "somewhat," since a second residency would be unfunded, no?

 

[digitlnoize]

Ah right. Forgot. Sorry. Delete somewhat. Apply broadly.

 

[splik]

I don't buy this. Since Step 1, the OP has completed Step 2, Step 3, and FM residency. They've proven themselves and I think most programs would give you a fair look.

he has not actually mentioned whether he passed step 3 and has not completed an FM residency or passed his board certification according to his post...

 

[vistaril]

I don't buy this. Since Step 1, the OP has completed Step 2, Step 3, and FM residency. They've proven themselves and I think most programs would give you a fair look.

Apply somewhat broadly to be safe, and you'll be just fine.

???

of course they will give him a look, and of course he will match somewhere if he applies broadly. I've already said that. after all, it's psych.

but failing step1 twice is a red flag. To deny it isnt is to deny the sun is the center of the universe. That doesnt mean someone cant match with one red flag in psych because they can and do.

 

[BS81]

???

of course they will give him a look, and of course he will match somewhere if he applies broadly. I've already said that. after all, it's psych.

but failing step1 twice is a red flag. To deny it isnt is to deny the sun is the center of the universe. That doesnt mean someone cant match with one red flag in psych because they can and do.

Solar system.... unless you mean it isn't a red flag
I don't know why you keep singling out psych.... radiology had tons of open spots last year and there are noncompetitive programs in most specialties
Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[vistaril]

Solar system.... unless you mean it isn't a red flag
I don't know why you keep singling out psych.... radiology had tons of open spots last year and there are noncompetitive programs in most specialties
Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

lmfao....yeah psych and rads have a lot in common in terms of competitiveness....about as much as rosie odonnell and jessica alba

 

[BS81]

Yes the comparison isnt great but you can argue that any USMD can match in to rads these days if they apply broadly enough. There are programs filled with FMGs out there. There are lots of programs that didn't fill and got "leftover" candidates in the soap that failed to match in to a different specialty. Point being "apply broadly" can get people in to many specialties.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[vistaril]

Yes the comparison isnt great but you can argue that any USMD can match in to rads these days if they apply broadly enough. There are programs filled with FMGs out there. There are lots of programs that didn't fill and got "leftover" candidates in the soap that failed to match in to a different specialty. Point being "apply broadly" can get people in to many specialties.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

no, there are no programs consisting of exclusively fmgs....there are a few scattered fmgs in rads......a few years ago there were like 11 TOTAL fmgs in all of rads.....how in the world you can compare that to 400 or so FMGS is ludicrous......

and no, any usmd can most definately not match in rads. rads average step1 score is in like 231. That means that people with 210's(and otherwise solid apps) are the people struggling to match(but they typically do match somewhere)......usmandd's with 195's really struggle to match in rads, and many dont even try. A usmd with a 195 and an otherwise solid app in psych can match just about anywhere except many the very top programs....and I mean VERY top.

again, because rads has so many slots they arent derm or something....but its still competitive, and has absolutely nothing in common with psych at all. The numbers bear this out.

Yes, there are other noncompetitive fields as well......family is noncompetitive. Thats probably the best comparison to psych; IM is not a good comp because good uni IM programs are much more compettive than their psych equivalents......

 

[BS81]

101 out of 182 non USMDs matched in rads last year. A further 86 spots went unfilled in the match. I'm sure there's self selection, but from what I'm seeing in my class the number and quality of radiology applicants is trending down. PM&R seems like the hot thing lately.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[BS81]

There are enough bottom of the barrel programs in IM that I'd call it noncompetitive

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[digitlnoize]

To deny it isnt is to deny the sun is the center of the universe.

Then I deny it.

Instead of bashing your field, perhaps you should encourage others to chose it.

Radiology is a sinking ship. Psych is a rising star. Somehow you picked the right field, but apparently it's because you had no other choices. I can draw no other conclusion from your posts except that you were forced into psych for some reason...possession?

 

[markglt]

eveybody lets just settle down, and get back to the original topic, me.
i passed all my other steps... 2 and 3 on first attempt. im a pgy2 in family and will apply to psych after i graduate... but b/c im a usimg with bad step 1 and 2 fails on it, i think my app for psych will just get filtered out.. so im stressed.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

eveybody lets just settle down, and get back to the original topic, me.
i passed all my other steps... 2 and 3 on first attempt. im a pgy2 in family and will apply to psych after i graduate... but b/c im a usimg with bad step 1 and 2 fails on it, i think my app for psych will just get filtered out.. so im stressed.

If you've successfully completed your FP residency and have positive letters from your current program, I think that you will be "filtered IN" by many community-based, clinicaly -oriented programs. Yes, you might be filtered out of some very numbers-focused programs--but they are a minority. Also, since this is a year away, it would help you further escape those filters if you were to build some network connections with programs which are especially interesting to you in terms of location or other factors--it might alert them to your application in advance--especially as you could conceivably be exempt from some of PGY 1.

 

[markglt]

thanks doc.