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Psychiatry Fellowships

Discussion in 'Psychiatry' started by Anasazi23, May 22, 2005.

  1. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    Q. What fellowships in psychiatry exist? Where can I find more information on them?

    A. The following list are the board certified specialty fellowships within psychiatry. The entrance to psychiatric fellowships require the completion of an accredited psychiatry residency, with the exception of child/adolescent psychiatry (explained below). All board certified fellowships are one year in length with the exception of child/adolescent psychiatry, which is two years. Many programs with linked child/adolescent fellowships out of residency allow the resident to enter the fellowship in their PGY-IV year, thus eliminating the extra year of training. Information on salaries, average hours worked, moonlighting opportunities, call schedule, etc can generally be obtained through the FREIDA website. Users are encouraged to visit the individual program websites or contact programs directly to obtain the most up-to-date information.

    Fellowship in Addiction Psychiatry
    American Academy of Addiction Psychiatry
    Addiction Psychiatry fellowship listing

    Fellowship in Child/Adolescent Psychiatry
    American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
    Child/Adolescent fellowship listing available at FREIDA

    Fellowship in Forensic Psychiatry
    American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law
    Forensic Psychiatry fellowship listing

    Fellowship in Geriatric Psychiatry
    American Association of Geriatric Psychiatry
    Geriatric Psychiatry fellowship listing available at FREIDA

    Fellowship in C/L (Consultation-Liason) now known as Psychosomatic Medicine
    Academy of Psychosomatic Medicine - The Organization for Consultation and Liason Psychiatry
    Psychosomatic Medicine / C/L fellowship listing

    Fellowship in Pain Medicine
    Pain Medicine fellowship listing (click pain medicine [P]) under search criteria

    Fellowship in Public and Community Psychiatry
    AACP Training Sites
    _________________________________________________________________

    Psychiatry also has fellowships that are not board certified, but consist of either specialized topics typically offered through institutions or the APA itself, or in disciplines important within psychiatry. The following is a partial listing. They include anxiety/mood disorders, immunology, neuroscience, psychopharmacology, epidemiology, cancer, genetics, schizophrenia, infant, and others.
    Additional fellowships
     
    #1 Anasazi23, May 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2017
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  3. Darger

    Darger New Member

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  4. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    I'm not sure if these specialties (neuropsychiatry or behavioral neurology) are board-certified per se. However, the American Neuropsychiatric Association and the Behavioral Neurology Society were granted membership in the new Unified Council of Neurological Subspecialties (UCNS) in 2004. If board certification examinations exist, a link would be great. If it doesn't exist, it will soon!

    Here's an older but helpful article:
    http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p040872.html

    Thanks for the input!
     
  5. sga430

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    notice only 1 prog from psy but i think there r more. not sure. also how is the pay?? and what is the difference in the programs depending on background (anaesth vs neuro vs psy vs phy rehab)
     
  6. prominence

    prominence Senior Member
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    bump, i was wondering the same thing.
     
  7. sga430

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    which fellowship is the most lucrative? my guess is child perhaps. also how about pain, psychopharm, etc?
     
  8. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    There is some new information related to this on the Psychiatry FAQ sticky.
    I can tell you that in general, subspecialists tend to make more than generalists (even though psychiatry is a specialty within medicine). Child psychiatrists have large earning potential, of course depending on the type of practice setup. Their average starting salaries tend to be higher than adult general psychiatrists. From my practical experience, they range from $140,000 to >$500,000.

    Forensic psychiatry can also be quite lucrative - again depending on your work practices. Salaried prison psychiatrists make around $110,000-120,000. Those involved in adult psychiatry doing forensic expert witnessing and consultation make much more, often easily $200,000+. I know a forensic psychiatrist pushing the $700,000 mark on Long Island.

    Non board-certified fellowships that you mention, such as psychopharmacology, generally net you nothing extra, from what I've seen. You may be able to negotiate an increase in your salaried position either in a hospital or academic medical center, but wouldn't count on all that much extra.

    There is a joke in psychiatry that geriatrics is the only subspecialty in medicine that decreases your salary. The theory behind this is that all the patients are Medicare/Medicaid only, making reimbursement difficult. However, it is not uncommon for geriatric specialists to command a somewhat higher salary than generalists in the hospital setting. Also, private psychiatrists working for nursing home networks can make quite a lot of money, easily over $200,000.

    Addiction psych has been discussed elsewhere. Basically, you can either make base salary typical for the region, or have a clinic practice or methadone mill and make lots.

    Perusing the back of Psychiatric News shows that C/L psychiatrists can also make either typical salaried position salary $20,000-$30,000 more, again depending on the area and other clinical duties.

    Keep in mind that many of the psychiatry salaried positions are 'faculty practice' positions. Meaning, you are paid a base salary by the hospital and have time dedicated to seeing private patients using the hospital facilities (office, reception, etc). In some cases, this DOUBLES a psychiatrist's practice income, depending on the caseload. Faculty practice positions typically require the doctor give a percentage of the earnings to the department in return.
     
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  9. Neurotica

    Neurotica Emotion Detector
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    Why no info about fellowships in sleep medicine?
     
  10. Poety

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    There was mention of sleep fellowship at my program, but you have to go through neuro to get it - its ONLY for neuro and psych specialists.


    Personally, I'm doing forensics
     
  11. I'd be interested in sleep fellowships too. I've read some overviews after searching on Frieda, but nothing else.
     
  12. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    Neuropsychiatry is in the process of becoming a board-certified specialty.
    Exams have been developed, (first administered BC test in Sept, 2006), with the training coming from either the houses of psychiatry or neurology.

    Here is the link to United Council for Neurologic Subspecialties (UCNS).

    The core curriculum is located via .pdf here.

    The following is the Eligibility Criteria for Subspecialty Certification.

    This article from the Journal of Neuropsychiatry & Clinical Neurosciences outlines the genesis and details of this fellowship theory.

    There will be much more information coming soon.
     
  13. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    There was some confusion, posted by members, that the new Neuropsychiatry fellowship was not eligible for psychiatry residents or attendings. While reading through the bylaws, I became confused myself, as the fellowship falls under the auspices of neurology.

    I emailed a representative concerning psychiatry residents' ability to apply and be accepted to such fellowships.

    She assured me that indeed, psychiatry residents are eligible to apply for these fellowships, and pointed me in the direction of the "Behavioral Neurology & Neuropsychiatry Fellowship Training Program Requirements" .pdf:

    http://www.ucns.org/pdf's/behavioral_neurology.pdf
    I did some investigating on this fellowship. It seems that the fellowship is not approved through the APA, or ACGME. Rather, there is a "United Council for Neurologic Subspecialties" that has taken upon itself to formalize neurologic subspecialties or "superspecialties" as they call them.

    From their website (www.ucns.org):
    While these specialties are not yet approved officially by the American Board of Psychiatry & Neurology, they will likely set the fellowship training standards should they become so. They have created specialty board exams, and are essentially a boarding process from an organization other than the ABPN.
     
  14. BrianUM

    BrianUM Future M.D
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    I wonder when/if Neuropsychiatry will appear on Frieda.
     
  15. sga430

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    i just heard all the pain fellowships opened up to psychiatry this year (or last year.) any comments????

    also wondered how a pain psychiatrist practice is? do they do procedures???
     
  16. prominence

    prominence Senior Member
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    good question. i'm curious about this as well.
     
  17. FURY 161

    FURY 161 XYY-Correctional Facility
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    Forensic psych is the most lucrative as far as I know.
     
  18. dream303

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    I am applaying for the child fellowship in the North East NY, Boston, Connecticut, Baltimore as well as probably Chicago. I was woundering if any one knows which programs are good, and what is the call and moonlighting situation?
     
  19. j802002

    j802002 Member
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    Does anyone know where I can find information on public/community psychiatry fellowships? Specifically those with a cross-cultural psychiatry component?
     
  20. Lauraaa

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    Hello all,

    I was wondering how much weight Step III carries in terms of securing a fellowship after general residency, particularly in forensics or research fellowships. I have read on other threads that the importance of step III in IM fellowship applications is debatable, with some saying that it is not as heavily weighed as other factors such as research/publications, letters, clinical evaluations, etc.

    The reason I ask is that it could be possible to make time during the last 8+ weeks of this final year to carve out about 3 hours a day to study for step III. I would think that the chances of getting better results at that time would be higher than in residency for a few reasons: 1.) Several people who have taken step III seem to be of the opinion that the questions resemble step 2. 2.) Much of the material (example OB/Peds) would presumably be more fresh having more recently come off clincial rotations than would be in the first year of residency. 3.) I presume I would have more time in the last few months of 4th year than during residency to study for step 3.

    Other pros of taking step III in the 4th year would be, speaking for myself, motivation to study now, before the intern year, in the hopes of improving and solidifying a general medical knowledge base before starting those four months of general medicine + 2 neuro months. (I am already a bit apprehensive for the intern year's gen med months and although do plan on taking an additional month of medicine to fill elective credit and help prep.... the extra studying for step 3 can't hurt either!) as well as the satisfaction and peace of mind starting residency knowing that this test is not lurking over your shoulder.

    On the other hand though the cons of taking the test during 4th year: 1.) Some have said that the clinical experience during intern year may help more in taking the test than the spare time now to study for it.. (though as I sort of eluded to earlier, for me personally I think I'd rather use the step 3 to help prep for the medicine months rather than the other way around).... 2.) And, secondly the prospect that a low step III score may damage fellowship applications....

    So in a nutshell, I'd appreciate advice from those who have applied to fellowships regarding weight of step III and from anyone on any other pros/cons to taking step III in the last year of med school.

    Thank you! :)
     
  21. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    Step III isn't only recommended for fellowship, in many cases, it's required. They won't consider your application without it. Not only that, many residencies require that you pass step III and become licensed prior to your PGY-III year.

    I can speak from experience in that many forensic psychiatry programs required me to have step III and a valid NYS license (since I applied here) to be eligible for their fellowship. I'll be working and ordering tests and procedures both in the prison system and in the hospital, prescribing, writing outpatient scripts, admitting, discharging, and all that fun stuff that requires a license to do while in fellowship. Not to mention that you can't do outside moonlighting without having passed it and gotten the state license if you want extra money during residency.

    Most seem to take it toward the end of PGY-I, or sometime during the PGY-II year. I would focus on it for then. Are you even eligible to take step III as a med student? I know I needed a break from those tests badly after I graduated from med school. If you're eligible and up for it, I don't see how that could be a bad thing.
     
  22. Lauraaa

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    Thanks for the speedy reply. Step 3 can be taken before residency if step 2 has been passed, if you've met the requirements for graduation and your school backs this up- though you do not have to have walked yet- and if you register for step III choosing a state to "sponsor" you that does not require any post doc training.

    I think but could be wrong that I have the stamina for it now b/c of the motivation to study now before intern year, but I wanted to be more reassured that step 3 score is not as heavily weighted for fellowships as step 1/2 are for residency applications.

    i.e. Would I be shooting myself in the foot for a forensic or research fellowship by taking step 3 too early and getting a passing but low step score? A forensics fellowship, say, in New York in California?
     
  23. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon
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    Just pass. I don't think anyone cares about Step III beyond that.
    Your residency performance and recs are going to carry the most weight.
     
  24. Lauraaa

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    Thanks for the advice, that's what I was hoping to hear....
     
  25. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    I agree. They basically won't have access to your step scores. It's primarily residency-based.

    I was not asked for my step III (or I, or II) score on any forensic interview.
     
  26. Lauraaa

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    I've heard from a forensic psychiatrist that for a forensic fellowship is it advantagous to go do a fellowship in the same state as you would like to practice for a few reasons, one being that you would already become familiar with the laws of the state where you were be practing by the time you start out on your own after fellowship and another because during the fellowship others in the field - judges, lawyers would begin to see your name and become familiar with you and your work so that it would make the transition from fellowship more smooth than if would to pick up after the fellowship and set up somewhere else.

    That being said, are there advantages to attending a residency program in the same state as where you would like to do a fellowship and practice? Do some fellowships favor their own residents?

    In general, are forensic fellowships in New York and California very much sought after and competitive to obtain?
     
  27. sydney1

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    Does anyone know about the PEds Portal project to increase child psychiatrists ie pediatricians can do 3 more years of training to sit for adult and child boards. Some of these pilot fellowships are supposed to start in 2008. Where????????? Help thanks
     
  28. neurologist

    neurologist En garde
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    Please feel free to drop by the new SDN Sleep Medicine Forum, now up and running!
     
  29. lilacpetals

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    University Hospials Case Medical Center in Cleveland, Ohio has a program. we accepted our first two residents this year :)
     
  30. psycho1

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    Any pain fellowships that are psych friendly?
     
  31. Doc Samson

    Doc Samson gamma irradiated
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    I believe Brigham and Women's Hospital has taken psychiatrists in the past.
     
  32. Solideliquid

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    Question about applying to child and adolescent fellowships.

    Do program directors look at performance on the PRITE and can negative scores affect your chance of being ranked?
     
  33. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    Do they? Yes, some do.

    Are they supposed to?

    No, they're not.
     
  34. colleezfascia

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    I was wondering about C & L.....Do such fellowships exist?
     
  35. Doc Samson

    Doc Samson gamma irradiated
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  36. medgirl81

    medgirl81 PGY1
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    Is there any place to find out the rankings of various fellowship programs? Like, which hospital/program is best for forensics or which for child? Thanks.
     
  37. Doc Samson

    Doc Samson gamma irradiated
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    No, that's really a word of mouth thing. You can ask for opinions, but I'd suggest starting a new thread to do it, since people are likely to go back and forth just like we do over "ranking" residency programs.
     
  38. jaadia88

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    I m an IMG from India n have jus completed a 2 yr PG training programme (residency)in Psychiatry in India. I want to know the eligiblity criteria for doing a fellowship in US n are their any fellowships which are given to international Psychiatry residents? plz help
     
  39. Solideliquid

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    What are everyone's views about matching in a fellowship offered by your home program? I think I would feel a little funny asking them for letters of recommendation from the attendings only to have them review their own letters and such when I turn in my application materials.

    If your program prefers to recruit from "in-house" is it acceptable to ask in a general way how they feel about you as a candidate?
     
  40. Faebinder

    Faebinder Slow Wave Smurf
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    Ask for letters anyway... they need to understand that they are not your only option.. so they better work on recruiting you. Plus I presume the fellowship is ACGME approved which means that the multiple attendings will have input on the selection and therefore one attending's letter will impact the other attendings. Don't presume they communicate enough.

    It's acceptable to ask how they feel about you... dont necessarily expect an honest answer. If they want you, they will make sure to tell you.
     
  41. Anasazi23

    Anasazi23 Your Digital Ruler
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    Psych departments will expect to fill some fellowship slots with their own residents. In fact, some look to fill the majority of their slots with in-house people. They know who they're getting, they know the system, and the transition to continue their work is relatively seamless. Plus, they know you don't need an adjustment period for moving, etc, etc.

    You still have to play the game and get letters, fill out an app, etc. If for no other reason than for them to have it all on file for ACGME credentialing purposes. Don't be shy about telling them you want the spot. They wait for it each year, and believe me, others will make their intentions known - so you should too.
     
  42. whopper

    whopper Former jolly good fellow
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    Agree with all the above.

    Ask for letters or rec anyways. You might opt to go to another program that may be better than the fellowship your residency program already has.

    Most programs I interviewed at accepted residents from their own programs first before others. However this was not the case with all of them, and in some places they only allowed in house residents a few spots, but left other spots open to outsiders.

    Don't let that get you down if you are not in a program attached to the fellowship you want to be in. My own program didn't have a forensic fellowship, forcing me to look around, still had a lot of interviews & there were plenty of places with open spots.

    I hate saying it but most residents I know got into a fellowship-Child or Forensic, even if I didn't think they were good residents. Some of the ones I worked with, I thought were doing poor work & still got into some prestigious fellowships or at least interviews at them. That was a far difference in competition level from IM where I often saw top residents not get into to any fellowship, and yes they tried.

    Only one fellowship brought in my scores, out of about 7-9 interviews (already forgetting the exact number I had). I don't even think they were caring so much about it.

    One piece of advice I wanted to mention that I didn't see above is not every fellowship is part of the Match. I found that out the hard way. My program director told me forensics was part of the Match (which it is not) which made me not look into the application process until late (yep & told the same to other 2 other residents). Some of the programs I was considering already filled up. (The PD was brand new to the position & I guess just assumed it was part of the Match. She's actually a pretty good PD.)

    So by the time I finally looked into it, which was about mid July, and figured that some programs already filled up in the spring, it made me work like lightening on getting my applications out. Another frustration with the forensic application process is almost all the programs wanted their applicants to fill out the program specific application--forcing me to spend about 5-10 hrs on each application. Since I felt behind, I spent about 50 hrs each week x2 weeks working on applications. That was very stressful. Some of the places also asked for quite a bit of money for their application fee to the point where I thought it was a rip off. One place I remembered wanted over $100 and also wanted me to give them officiated materials proving I passed USMLE which would've costed I believe another $75. Why I don't know since they wanted me to have a liscence anyway for their state that would've proved I passed the exam anyway. I remember that same program asked for another $50-100 for some reason I thought was bogus. If I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have applied to some of those programs.

    You want to look into getting your forensic applications a few months before you want to work on them because some places won't get them to you in a timely manner. Several of the places vary in their application process. Some places start accepting applications in the spring and might already fill their spots before summer, others won't start accepting until after the summer. Just to be safe, I'd suggest getting applications in Jan-Feb.

    Another factor: based on my own experience, some programs don't have their residents looking into fellowship. For that reason, their program director might not be experienced on the application process. E.g. my own program had several residents go to Child Fellowship, but had about a total of 3 residents get into a Forensic Fellowship (since its inception). When I applied, my PD was brand new & couldn't offer me much advice. There were only 2 forensic psychiatrists with the program--1 of which was leaving, and was the guy that ended up saving me, the other had no idea of how the application process worked because he did his training in forensics before fellowships started.

    If you are in that situation, look around to people outside the program that may be able to help. You could also ask on the forum. I'm sure many of us would be happy to help.
     
    #41 whopper, Dec 14, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  43. Doc Samson

    Doc Samson gamma irradiated
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    To my knowledge, the only one of our subspecialties participating in the January match is Child and Adolescent.
     
  44. FURY 161

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    Does anybody know anything about eating disorders fellowships? I would like to specialize in that area, but it seems that there is not much info about the topic.
     
  45. masterofmonkeys

    masterofmonkeys Angy Old Man
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    Not really a fellowship in it. you'd probably want to do C&A and/or just find a program with strong research or clinical work (i.e. DBT) in that area.

    I've got a strong interest in muscle dysmorphic disorder myself.
     
  46. PeeWee137

    2+ Year Member

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    just curious - is there any advantage to doing 2 fellowships - say for instance child and addiction? and then subsequently work with kids who have substance problems.
    would doing one of these fellowships train you adequately in the other area to practice with that population, or is this program dependent?
     
  47. masterofmonkeys

    masterofmonkeys Angy Old Man
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    PeeWee, I'm an MS4 but actually was interviewed by a faculty member at Denver who does addiction work with adolescents. He did 1 fellowship: addiction.

    We talked about that a bit as I'm kinda dually interested in psychosomatic and child. He said that dual fellowships are something to consider but not a necessity by any means.

    He was absolutely awesome in the 45 minutes we had and gave me a lot of career advice, if you want me to try to dig up his name, PM me.

    I would think the addiction fellowship would be enough.
     
  48. psychmatch

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    I know that some programs do offer a one yr fellowship in women's mental health-does anyone have a list or know which ones?
     
  49. Hurricane

    Hurricane Senior Member
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    One would think the American Association of Community Psychiatrists would have a list on their website, but they don't, or else it's not easy to find.

    Columbia, Pitt, Case Western, Emory have programs that I know of. I'm sure there are others. Here at UTSW we are starting one at the request of the residents. It seems to becoming more popular...
     
  50. Hurricane

    Hurricane Senior Member
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    One would think the American Association of Community Psychiatrists would have a list on their website, but they don't, or else it's not easy to find.

    Columbia, Pitt, Case Western, Emory have programs that I know of. I'm sure there are others. Here at UTSW we are starting one at the request of the residents. It seems to becoming more popular...
     
  51. yesmeena

    yesmeena Member
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    hello Drs!

    a friend needs feedback regarding the Psychiatry-Addiction fellowship program at Case Western..

    am doing an online search, thought to ask if you can pls help me help her decide?

    what's the program's reputation?
    are they IMG friendly?
    any insiders on this forum?

    can you possibly guide me to reviews or useful links?

    thanks in advance & pls excuse my ignorance, am not in the system yet :)

    good luck to all :)
     

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