Psychiatry getting more competitive?

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pia43

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Hi! Long-time lurker here looking for some more perspective.

At my school, there's been a huge surge in interest for psychiatry. My class has double the applicants as the previous year. I know it's been getting more competitive overall but this seems like a more extreme jump. I'm not sure if we're just an outlier. Are people at other schools seeing something similar? Should we expect a really rough year in the coming cycle?

I'm trying to figure out how many programs/interviews to plan for. Our advisers say they're not sure since this is new for them too. I don't want to be stuck having to scramble for a (non-psychiatry) spot but application/interview costs are adding up.
 
My school's is going up from 12 to ~20 applicants. It's probably getting a lot tougher, but US MD applicants should still be matching somewhere without too much trouble. There's a few discussions about this in the psychiatry sub-forum that you could check out if you're worried.

Regarding number of programs, I'm going to play it safe and risk over applying. The charting outcomes data is from before the jump in competitiveness and I'm not sure it's applicable. The last cycle was unusually rough, and it looks like our year is worse. Still not worth panicking over.
 
Yes, my school doubled as well. It's a combination of people applying to more programs but also a definite increase in interest. I think the new data will reflect this. I don't think we need to be worried yet, but probably a good idea to apply broadly.
 
Ours has gone down. Looking at the past few Charting the Outcomes numbers, it doesn't seem to be getting anymore competitive for reasons other than there are more applicants as a whole.

On the recent NRMP 2016 report, 61% of US seniors are take up all psychiatry programs, this is a 10% increase from 2 years ago. I kind of feel like it is a combo of the increase in applicants and increased interest.
 
Please god,
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.
 
I said this in the psychiatry forum and will say it again: I do think that some of this is probably artifact from the fact that each year we only get one datum for this trend and it is a relatively recent "trend." This coupled with the fact that in absolute numbers, relatively few medical students go into psychiatry means that it becomes difficult to interpret this stuff. I think people are making too big a deal out of this.

That being said, there are many reasons to like psychiatry. I've told a lot of my med school friends that I think if you can handle psych issues and dealing with psychopathology, it is the absolute best field of medicine.

This probably seems like an obvious statement but what I mean by that is that a lot of people hate psych patients and their issues or don't have the patience for them. It's not for everyone and I think it is more difficult than other "lifestyle" fields to "come to enjoy" the work of you're not innately drawn to it. I think more people who are lukewarm about the respective fields could come to enjoy intubating people or doing skin biopsies. I don't think it is as easy to come to enjoy performing a thorough mental status exam, going to court to defend involuntary commitments, deescalating threatened psychotic patients who are on drugs, etc.

However, if you like psych enough that you could handle doing what it entails, it's an awesome field. There are a ton of different directions to go with the field. Most types of psych practice will leave you ample room to have a personal life. The pay isn't really that bad, despite what some people think. Generally your colleagues are not dinguses (I know this is a generalization but a lot of fields have pretty ****ty cultures and psych is the antithesis of this, in my experience). You get to be an expert in things—even if you don't do a fellowship, most places will consider you THE guy for altered mental status (whether or not they should be the way it works is a different discussion) and few medical disciplines work as closely with the legal system. If you're into it, I think psych gives an especially good opportunity for engaging in policy and for engaging with the public.

Overall, I think it's just a very attractive field. The catch is that you have to like psych patients. I think this always has been and still is the rate limiting step.
 
Overall, I think it's just a very attractive field. The catch is that you have to like psych patients. I think this always has been and still is the rate limiting step.

This is why I have to roll my eyes every time people start to get anxious that the "secret" is out on psych. It's a core med school rotation, there is no secret. Psych is a difficult field unless you have the right personality for it. It's never going to be an extremely competitive field.
 
Yes it's getting extremely competitive... You will need 230+ on step1 with no red flags to have a decent shot... You also should apply to 50+ programs.
 
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Yes it's getting extremely competitive... You will need 230+ on step1 with no red flags to have a decent shot... You also should apply to 50+ programs.
Scaring away the competition, huh? 😉
 
Yes it's getting extremely competitive... You will need 230+ on step1 with no red flags to have a decent shot... You also should apply to 50+ programs.
What is wrong with you? Don't answer, it's a rhetorical question.
 
Overall, I think it's just a very attractive field. The catch is that you have to like patient interaction. I think this always has been and still is the rate limiting step.

FTFY. And that includes the shiatty parts of dealing with patients, including telling them no. My job has been awful this week due to providers, both psych and other physicians who weren't willing to tell their patients "no, I'm not willing to prescribe that for you," or "no, you're misusing that," or "no, I'm going to cut you off now."

(Yes, having a patient beg you for help with his anxiety really sucks, but that doesn't mean you start an 81 year old on TID xanax, you dumbfark.)
 
On the recent NRMP 2016 report, 61% of US seniors are take up all psychiatry programs, this is a 10% increase from 2 years ago. I kind of feel like it is a combo of the increase in applicants and increased interest.

The point I was making was that all fields are becoming "more competitive" simply because total number of applicants are increasing. However, I don't think psych is becoming more competitive at a faster rate than most other fields. The only field I'm aware of that is becoming grossly more competitive is EM, but I'm also not incredibly familiar with changing trends in most fields.
 
This is why I have to roll my eyes every time people start to get anxious that the "secret" is out on psych. It's a core med school rotation, there is no secret. Psych is a difficult field unless you have the right personality for it. It's never going to be an extremely competitive field.

I don't think I necessarily agree with your point about it being difficult. Many fields are difficult and yes it's tough talking with people who have a mental illness. But I would say most students at my school really enjoyed their psych rotation. And I think there's a serious overestimation of the 'personality' one should have in order to pursue psych. All you really need are patience, compassion, and understanding towards patients, something I would hope all soon to be doctors have. I don't think there's any secret about psych being out but more about people really considering what kind of life they want in the future. I suspect many individuals liked psych a lot but didn't want to go into it because of the stigma/lower pay. The tide is shifting a little as people are making lifestyle a very important part of their decision-making. So while I don't expect psych to become super popular, it will continue to become more and more competitive.
 
It is if you are like my classmates who only wanted to do it because they were convinced they could open cash only practices in manhattan and make $600k/year catering to the problems of the social elite.
 
The point I was making was that all fields are becoming "more competitive" simply because total number of applicants are increasing. However, I don't think psych is becoming more competitive at a faster rate than most other fields. The only field I'm aware of that is becoming grossly more competitive is EM, but I'm also not incredibly familiar with changing trends in most fields.
Psych and EM are 'becoming more competitive at faster rate than most other fields' (to borrow your words). If you're a US MD student from a low tier school like me and you don't do well in step1 (<225), you better also apply to some preliminary surgery spots so you won't go unmatched. I kind of regret not taking my DO acceptance now since DO also have their own residency.
 
If you're a US MD student from a low tier school like me and you don't do well in step1 (<225), you better also apply to some preliminary surgery spots so you won't go unmatched. I kind of regret not taking my DO acceptance now since DO also have their own residency.
...for psych??????
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Psych and EM are 'becoming more competitive at faster rate than most other fields' (to borrow your words). If you're a US MD student from a low tier school like me and you don't do well in step1 (<225), you better also apply to some preliminary surgery spots so you won't go unmatched. I kind of regret not taking my DO acceptance now since DO also have their own residency.
Sorry, you are incorrect.
US MDs who applied for 2014 outcomes with step 1 181-220, about 320 matched, and 23 did not
 
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That was 2014... see post #18
I did, still disagree. Even if it is going up, there's a huge component of weak applicants/FMGs/IMGs spots to burn through before US MDs start feeling a distinct change in competition. Not to mention, there's a rather generous buffer with the tons of psych spots, only of which 61% were filled with US MDs in 2016
 
I swear W19 lives in a different world than the rest of us
Not really... Just too worried sometimes! Step1 is looming over my head now. Will start studying for that beast tomorrow. Done with my MS2... YOOHOOO!
 
Psych and EM are 'becoming more competitive at faster rate than most other fields' (to borrow your words). If you're a US MD student from a low tier school like me and you don't do well in step1 (<225), you better also apply to some preliminary surgery spots so you won't go unmatched. I kind of regret not taking my DO acceptance now since DO also have their own residency.

Had a step 1 not very far off the number you quoted, from a no-name allopathic school, matched incredibly well in psych.

I mean, I am willing on some level to accept that I am awesome, but not -that- awesome.
 
This is why I have to roll my eyes every time people start to get anxious that the "secret" is out on psych. It's a core med school rotation, there is no secret. Psych is a difficult field unless you have the right personality for it. It's never going to be an extremely competitive field.

Maybe some fantasize about a Frasier-like life where you only talk to posh people with pharmaceutical needs and a little intellectual banter.
 
FTFY. And that includes the shiatty parts of dealing with patients, including telling them no. My job has been awful this week due to providers, both psych and other physicians who weren't willing to tell their patients "no, I'm not willing to prescribe that for you," or "no, you're misusing that," or "no, I'm going to cut you off now."

(Yes, having a patient beg you for help with his anxiety really sucks, but that doesn't mean you start an 81 year old on TID xanax, you dumbfark.)

Funny not funny story: somewhat recently I watched a non-psych resident on a non-psych service put an old lady with a vascular dementia and likely-related emotional lability issues on benzos for said emotional lability ("anxiety"). I asked "are you sure you want to do this? I wouldn't do this." His response was "it's only a little bit of benzos so it's okay."
 
Funny not funny story: somewhat recently I watched a non-psych resident on a non-psych service put an old lady with a vascular dementia and likely-related emotional lability issues on benzos for said emotional lability ("anxiety"). I asked "are you sure you want to do this? I wouldn't do this." His response was "it's only a little bit of benzos so it's okay."

I just finished up a month on the general neurology service, and one of the neuro residents (PGY-2) also on the service told me that he "always uses alprazolam to treat anxiety - it's the best treatment there is, even psychiatrists agree, and you only have to use a little bit."

When I asked him why he doesn't use clonazepam, he said that "the half-life is too long." When I told him about using SSRIs for anxiety, his mind was blown.

I shudder to think of how many people he's started on alprazolam as a first-line agent for anxiety...
 
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I just finished up a month on the general neurology service, and one of the neuro residents (PGY-2) also on the service told me that he "always uses alprazolam to treat anxiety - it's the best treatment there is, even psychiatrists agree, and you only have to use a little bit."

When I asked him why he doesn't use clonazepam, he said that "the half-life is too long." When I told him about using SSRIs for anxiety, his mind was blown.

I shudder to think of how many people he's started on alprazolam as a first-line agent for anxiety...

I don't even "bridge" with clonazepam or any other benzo anymore. Let the SSRI do its thing, and don't give the patient false expectations that anxiety can simply be melted away with pills.
 
I just finished up a month on the general neurology service, and one of the neuro residents (PGY-2) also on the service told me that he "always uses alprazolam to treat anxiety - it's the best treatment there is, even psychiatrists agree, and you only have to use a little bit."

When I asked him why he doesn't use clonazepam, he said that "the half-life is too long." When I told him about using SSRIs for anxiety, his mind was blown.

I shudder to think of how many people he's started on alprazolam as a first-line agent for anxiety...

I don't even "bridge" with clonazepam or any other benzo anymore. Let the SSRI do its thing, and don't give the patient false expectations that anxiety can simply be melted away with pills.

The worst thing is that the patient I was referring to wasn't even anxious. The patient was causing problems with nursing, inconsolable, and, if I remember correctly, refusing labs and trying to tell everybody that she needed to go home. My residents didn't want to deal with her but knew I was interested in psych so they told me to go talk to her. I went down, calmed her, and did a mental status exam. I would say that she was labile and agitated with depressive thoughts, not anxious. I went back to the resident and recommended an SSRI and, though I would try to avoid it as much as possible because of the risks, an antipsychotic like risperidone as a last resort if she got agitated enough that it was compromising her care (QTc was totally normal).

The patient got Xanax.

Whatever, I'm done trying to reason with these people about psychiatric issues. The other week, one of the residents told me "you seem to be really good at physiology and pharmacology. Are you sure you want to go into a field where you'll never use any of those talents?"🙄
 
The other week, one of the residents told me "you seem to be really good at physiology and pharmacology. Are you sure you want to go into a field where you'll never use any of those talents?"🙄

Psych not using knowledge of pharmacology? WAT?
 
The worst thing is that the patient I was referring to wasn't even anxious. The patient was causing problems with nursing, inconsolable, and, if I remember correctly, refusing labs and trying to tell everybody that she needed to go home. My residents didn't want to deal with her but knew I was interested in psych so they told me to go talk to her. I went down, calmed her, and did a mental status exam. I would say that she was labile and agitated with depressive thoughts, not anxious. I went back to the resident and recommended an SSRI and, though I would try to avoid it as much as possible because of the risks, an antipsychotic like risperidone as a last resort if she got agitated enough that it was compromising her care (QTc was totally normal).

The patient got Xanax.

Whatever, I'm done trying to reason with these people about psychiatric issues. The other week, one of the residents told me "you seem to be really good at physiology and pharmacology. Are you sure you want to go into a field where you'll never use any of those talents?"🙄

A very heavy sigh.... this post sounds like one giant misinformed humblebrag with a touch of only-the-empathetic-med-student-going-into-psych-knew-what-was-really-going-on. (Surely unintentional.)

I'd like to make an impassioned plea to correct the record.

Benzodiazepines absolutely have a place in the management of acute agitation or anxiety, especially in the inpatient setting. Second-generation antipsychotics might also be acceptable but carry higher risks than appropriately-prescribed benzos. (Though not for Torsades. Risperidone only has case-study level evidence for causing TdP, and we're mostly talking about overdoses or medically complicated patients. I feel that psychiatrists sometimes use QTc as a transitional object or perhaps a talismanic way to gain some medical cachet... ) Trazodone or mirtazapine might be better bets for sedation with less deliriogenicity, if that were an issue. But a short course of alprazolam is pretty darn safe and absolutely evidence-based. This is according to consensus statements by the American Association for Emergency Psychiatry and the American Psychosomatic Society. I'll share the articles when I get home.

Also, maybe this was someone with a decompensating personality disorder? Maybe the patient was really scared? Maybe the patient was just being an dingus? Who knows? "Labile with depressive thoughts" doesn't get you very far. And certainly doesn't justify a diagnosis for which there is any good evidence for SSRIs (like GAD, PD, etc.); after all, anxiety is not the same as an anxiety-predominant disorder. Different disease states with different psychopathology.

If you're not going to provide a little supportive psychotherapy or CBT, and there's no evidence of an underlying substance use disorder, why not do the humane thing and help the patient symptomatically? Definitely not for 4 weeks, but even up to 1 week.

@WingedOx As an attending, please feel free to correct me, but this has been my experience on two C/L sub-I's and a literature review in progress.
 
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A very heavy sigh.... this post sounds like one giant misinformed humblebrag with a touch of only-the-empathetic-med-student-going-into-psych-knew-what-was-really-going-on. (Surely unintentional.)

I'd like to make an impassioned plea to correct the record.

Benzodiazepines absolutely have a place in the management of acute agitation or anxiety, especially in the inpatient setting. Second-generation antipsychotics might also be acceptable but carry higher risks than appropriately-prescribed benzos. (Though not for Torsades. Risperidone only has case-study level evidence for causing TdP, and we're mostly talking about overdoses or medically complicated patients. I feel that psychiatrists sometimes use QTc as a transitional object or perhaps a talismanic way to gain some medical cachet... ) Trazodone or mirtazapine might be better bets for sedation with less deliriogenicity, if that were an issue. But a short course of alprazolam is pretty darn safe and absolutely evidence-based. This is according to consensus statements by the American Association for Emergency Psychiatry and the American Psychosomatic Society. I'll share the articles when I get home.

Also, maybe this was someone with a decompensating personality disorder? Maybe the patient was really scared? Maybe the patient was just being an dingus? Who knows? "Labile with depressive thoughts" doesn't get you very far. And certainly doesn't justify a diagnosis for which there is any good evidence for SSRIs (like GAD, PD, etc.); after all, anxiety is not the same as an anxiety-predominant disorder. Different disease states with different psychopathology.

If you're not going to provide a little supportive psychotherapy or CBT, and there's no evidence of an underlying substance use disorder, why not do the humane thing and help the patient symptomatically? Definitely not for 4 weeks, but even up to 1 week.

@WingedOx As an attending, please feel free to correct me, but this has been my experience on two C/L sub-I's and a literature review in progress.
I don't know, dude. It seemed stupid. The patient would get upset and cry/ get agitated and then calm down a few minutes later. I asked the patient about feeling worried, having racing thoughts, problems sleeping, etc. I didn't think she would get better with Xanax. She didn't get better with Xanax. I don't know what to tell you.

The person was not anxious. You're going to tell me otherwise about a patient you didn't even see? And I'm misinformed? Dude, you didn't see this patient—that's the definition of misinformed as it relates to his care.
 
I don't know, dude. It seemed stupid. The patient would get upset and cry/ get agitated and then calm down a few minutes later. I asked the patient about feeling worried, having racing thoughts, problems sleeping, etc. I didn't think she would get better with Xanax. She didn't get better with Xanax. I don't know what to tell you.

The person was not anxious. You're going to tell me otherwise about a patient you didn't even see? And I'm misinformed? Dude, you didn't see this patient—that's the definition of misinformed as it relates to his care.

That actually sounds like pseudobulbar affect, given her history of vascular dementia. Again, the differential is wide and so are the psychosupportive therapies.

Is there any evidence for SSRI's for agitation? Absolutely none. Is there any evidence of benefit for the safe and short prescribing of benzodiazepines? Absolutely. Second-generation antipsychotics probably should have been first-line. Dextromethorphan/quinidine is better for PBA.

But fair enough. Only you saw the patient. I just wouldn't to be so down on other services that might not understand the evidence-base in psychiatry as well as you do.

Saying, "I'm done trying to reason with these people about psychiatric issues" is harmful to the speciality of psychiatry and psychiatric patients. I've even cited the literature in my notes, talked about the literature in my consultations, and presented at neuro grand rounds on behavioural emergencies--there are other strategies to use than shutting down the conversation. Psychoeducation isn't just for patients.

Of course if you want to be an "impassioned" advocate for benzos, you'll never have a shortage of patients wanting your treatment.

Of course. Benzo overuse is very real and a tremendous problem. They are not benign drugs. But I meant in the inpatient setting, with all the caveats above.

I'm trying mainly to be an advocate for evidence-based medicine. I'll just leave these citations here for other interested medical students.

Baldwin DS, Anderson IM, Nutt DJ, et al. Evidence-based guidelines for the pharmacological treatment of anxiety disorders: recommendations from the British Association for Psychopharmacology. J Psychopharmacol (Oxford). 2005;19(6):567-96.

Wilson MP, Pepper D, Currier GW, Holloman GH, Feifel D. The psychopharmacology of agitation: consensus statement of the american association for emergency psychiatry project Beta psychopharmacology workgroup. West J Emerg Med. 2012;13(1):26-34.

Lader M. Benzodiazepine harm: how can it be reduced?. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2014;77(2):295-301.
 
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I just finished up a month on the general neurology service, and one of the neuro residents (PGY-2) also on the service told me that he "always uses alprazolam to treat anxiety - it's the best treatment there is, even psychiatrists agree, and you only have to use a little bit."

When I asked him why he doesn't use clonazepam, he said that "the half-life is too long." When I told him about using SSRIs for anxiety, his mind was blown.

I shudder to think of how many people he's started on alprazolam as a first-line agent for anxiety...
That is just insane. I don't know why these drugs aren't Schedule II yet across the entire country.
 
A very heavy sigh.... this post sounds like one giant misinformed humblebrag with a touch of only-the-empathetic-med-student-going-into-psych-knew-what-was-really-going-on. (Surely unintentional.)

I'd like to make an impassioned plea to correct the record.

Benzodiazepines absolutely have a place in the management of acute agitation or anxiety, especially in the inpatient setting. Second-generation antipsychotics might also be acceptable but carry higher risks than appropriately-prescribed benzos. (Though not for Torsades. Risperidone only has case-study level evidence for causing TdP, and we're mostly talking about overdoses or medically complicated patients. I feel that psychiatrists sometimes use QTc as a transitional object or perhaps a talismanic way to gain some medical cachet... ) Trazodone or mirtazapine might be better bets for sedation with less deliriogenicity, if that were an issue. But a short course of alprazolam is pretty darn safe and absolutely evidence-based. This is according to consensus statements by the American Association for Emergency Psychiatry and the American Psychosomatic Society. I'll share the articles when I get home.

Also, maybe this was someone with a decompensating personality disorder? Maybe the patient was really scared? Maybe the patient was just being an dingus? Who knows? "Labile with depressive thoughts" doesn't get you very far. And certainly doesn't justify a diagnosis for which there is any good evidence for SSRIs (like GAD, PD, etc.); after all, anxiety is not the same as an anxiety-predominant disorder. Different disease states with different psychopathology.

If you're not going to provide a little supportive psychotherapy or CBT, and there's no evidence of an underlying substance use disorder, why not do the humane thing and help the patient symptomatically? Definitely not for 4 weeks, but even up to 1 week.

@WingedOx As an attending, please feel free to correct me, but this has been my experience on two C/L sub-I's and a literature review in progress.
What about delirium?
 
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Psych still lowest on charting outcomes average step 1.
 
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You can talk about "evidence-based" treatment all you want, but if you're not making a correct patient assessment, then any published evidence you're using to back up your assessment is inherently useless. There's nothing in sloop's post to indicate that the patient is experiencing anxiety. Hell, there's nothing there to indicate that the patient in question is even agitated requiring any form of chemical intervention. You can't make a call either way without assessing sensorium. Sadly Occam's Razor is this is just another medicine(?) service trying to shut the patient up by throwing some downers at her rather than doing a reasonable mental status assessment, which every internal medicine resident should be capable of doing.

As for the less likely possibility of pseudobulbar affect, despite all the hype and marketing, last I looked I don't believe there's been any good published data for Nuedexta actually being superior to your typical bread and butter SSRI. A month supply of the former is $600. The latter is $4. Which do you want to try first on your fixed-income patient?
 
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I don't think I necessarily agree with your point about it being difficult. Many fields are difficult and yes it's tough talking with people who have a mental illness. But I would say most students at my school really enjoyed their psych rotation. And I think there's a serious overestimation of the 'personality' one should have in order to pursue psych. All you really need are patience, compassion, and understanding towards patients, something I would hope all soon to be doctors have. I don't think there's any secret about psych being out but more about people really considering what kind of life they want in the future. I suspect many individuals liked psych a lot but didn't want to go into it because of the stigma/lower pay. The tide is shifting a little as people are making lifestyle a very important part of their decision-making. So while I don't expect psych to become super popular, it will continue to become more and more competitive.

I don't think the "turn off" necessarily is how much you need to like patients.

The big divide you see between cutters vs the not cutters, and then looking at the not cutters as a group, has to do with how important it is to either see results fast, or be able to *measure* results, and how much you like managing *chronic* illness.

Sure, inpt psych you can see come quick results.
Both family practitioners/IM and psychs need to be OK managing chronic illness, however, I would argue PCPs get a higher proportion of one and done type problems in their daily practice. The PNA admit, the UTI outpt.
Outpt psych, usually if it's the situational depression or mild GAD that was gonna respond to a simple course of SSRIs, that never would have made it past the PCP to your door. So often with outpt psych you're gonna have a lot less "cure" to what you're doing. Even if you're just doing 15 min visits for med management, I would argue there's a different quality to the "good" you're doing.

Take CHF, there's a chronic illness, however think of the way CHF is staged. You can actually measure your management in treating with pounds of water weight, SOB/how far the patient can walk, and kidney function. I know psych has all those little questionnaries patients can fill out, but I would argue more than most fields, even ones that manage chronic illness, it is much more difficult to quantify your work. This, to me, distinguishes psychiatrists, neurologists, and palliative care physicians from all the rest in terms of "personality type." A sizeable portion of your practice can have a much less "measurable" feel to the work you're doing, which by no way makes your outcomes less tangible or important.

So, long story short, I think what makes dealing with psych patients "require" a certain personality is that the docs that like it, need to be OK with management of not only frequently chronic conditions, but conditions for which there is much more ambiguity not only in how to treat, but in measuring response. *That* to my mind is unique for the fields I named.

I'll spare you on then getting into what makes psychiatry different than neurology and palliative care despite the simularities I named.


Psych and EM are 'becoming more competitive at faster rate than most other fields' (to borrow your words). If you're a US MD student from a low tier school like me and you don't do well in step1 (<225), you better also apply to some preliminary surgery spots so you won't go unmatched. I kind of regret not taking my DO acceptance now since DO also have their own residency.

My understanding is that there will be a complete merge for osteopathic and allopathic residency programs, although it's expected for each to still maintain preferences towards their own.
 
Psych and EM are 'becoming more competitive at faster rate than most other fields' (to borrow your words). If you're a US MD student from a low tier school like me and you don't do well in step1 (<225), you better also apply to some preliminary surgery spots so you won't go unmatched. I kind of regret not taking my DO acceptance now since DO also have their own residency.
Remember when I told you a few weeks ago that I have been reading your posts for years and don't trust you with regards to literally anything? Thanks for continuing to stack up incriminating evidence like the Nixon administration fighting off Watergate. Go back to your journal and stop ****ting up every thread.
 
What about delirium?

Delirium can be very subtle, needs to be ruled out with reasonable confidence, and non-pharmacological interventions are always first-line. Benzos are of course delriogenic. The Emergency Psychiatry guidelines cover this point very well.

You can talk about "evidence-based" treatment all you want, but if you're not making a correct patient assessment, then any published evidence you're using to back up your assessment is inherently useless. There's nothing in sloop's post to indicate that the patient is experiencing anxiety. Hell, there's nothing there to indicate that the patient in question is even agitated requiring any form of chemical intervention. You can't make a call either way without assessing sensorium. Sadly Occam's Razor is this is just another medicine(?) service trying to shut the patient up by throwing some downers at her rather than doing a reasonable mental status assessment, which every internal medicine resident should be capable of doing.

As for the less likely possibility of pseudobulbar affect, despite all the hype and marketing, last I looked I don't believe there's been any good published data for Nuedexta actually being superior to your typical bread and butter SSRI. A month supply of the former is $600. The latter is $4. Which do you want to try first on your fixed-income patient?

I completely agree about the Nuedexta. The research is almost all industry funded with a very high meaningful NNT. I was appalled that it was being advertised on TV when I visited the States. STILL, that's what the evidence most supports (and industry funding is not a reason to ignore that). I've also seen good clinical results from it. But yes, from a cost perspective, an SSRI would make the most sense for long-term management for PBA.

If you read my post, I agree about the wide differential. I don't think an appropriate assessment was carried out by anyone (based on what was written). MSE is an underappreciated skill that ALL physicians should be able to perform.

I just don't see the rationale for a SSRI in the clinical scenario being described. And bagging on benzos is starting to become annoyingly dogmatic (while acknowledging that they have appropriate and inappropriate uses). Those were the only points I was trying to make.

Plus the whole humblebrag thing ("oh but you're so good at pharmacology"!). Ugh. Rustled mah jimmies.

@WingedOx I really enjoy your posts and respect your opinion, so I'll defer to whatever else you might have to say.
 
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bagging on benzos is starting to become annoyingly dogmatic (while acknowledging that they have appropriate and inappropriate uses)

Plus the whole humblebrag thing ("oh but you're so good at pharmacology"!). Ugh. Rustled mah jimmies.

@WingedOx I really enjoy your posts and respect your opinion, so I'll defer to whatever else you might have to say.

QFT.
 
Remember when I told you a few weeks ago that I have been reading your posts for years and don't trust you with regards to literally anything? Thanks for continuing to stack up incriminating evidence like the Nixon administration fighting off Watergate. Go back to your journal and stop ****ting up every thread.
I remember that, but you still have not made your case yet... Watergate/Nixon/Impeachment🙂! This is freaking SDN...

People should take whatever they read here with a huge grain of salt... Anyway, if I score <220 on step 1, I will also apply to some preliminary surgery spots. That's just me. Not saying other people should do that.
 
I remember that, but you still have not made your case yet... Watergate/Nixon/Impeachment🙂! This is freaking SDN...

People should take whatever they read here with a huge grain of salt... Anyway, if I score <220 on step 1, I will also apply to some preliminary surgery spots. That's just me. Not saying other people should do that.
Aside from the fact that it's unnecessary, I'm curious as to how you're going to justify your preliminary surgery application - you know that you have to interview for prelim/transitional year as well, right?
 
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